Lazard Situation...

[tynimiller]

FTR

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[Heyjoe4]

He's earned his pay day & some team will pony-up $7-$10mil/yr for him to be a very reliable, dirty-work #3...it just won't be GB. Gute will have 2 or 3 6'-3"+, 215 lb WR in camp wo run. 4.6 or 4.65 40 and whichever one can catch AND likes to block will stick on the 53.

Yeah no matter who is or is not ahead of him, Lazard will very likely always be a solid #3 WR who can block well. Is that worth $10 mil/year? No it's not. I hope the WR group will have improved by the start of next season - certainly Watson and Doubs look like they could become legit #1 and #2 WRs, but they need to earn that first.

I hope Gluten takes TE Mike Mayer from ND at #15 in the draft. He looks NFL-ready IMO.

 

[Magooch]

Pretty confident he is good as gone. No hate for Lazard but I think for the money he will command he is going to be seen as replaceable.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Pretty confident he is good as gone. No hate for Lazard but I think for the money he will command he is going to be seen as replaceable.

Agreed. Very similar to MVS, although the times I've seen him this year, he's upped his game in KC. I'm sure having Mahomes throwing to him makes a lot of difference too.

Anyway, yeah Lazard is replaceable, and for less than $10 mil if they go to FA early. The FA market for WRs this year is shaping up as weak, so if Gluten is going to do something, he can't wait like he did last year.

 

[Schultz]

So you must have watched both of MVS good games this year.

 

[thequick12]

Agreed. Very similar to MVS, although the times I've seen him this year, he's upped his game in KC. I'm sure having Mahomes throwing to him makes a lot of difference too.

Anyway, yeah Lazard is replaceable, and for less than $10 mil if they go to FA early. The FA market for WRs this year is shaping up as weak, so if Gluten is going to do something, he can't wait like he did last year.

2020 was still MVS' best Nfl season, 33 for 690 20.9 a catch and 6 tds. In 2022 with Mahomes he went for 42 687 16.4 and 2. MVS like Lazard but for different reasons is a very solid #3 NFL wr.

But yes neither is worth 10 m per. Granted I dont think it will be easy to replace Lazards blocking. Christian Watson is also actually very good but you want him catching the ball and being blocked for

 

[Heyjoe4]

2020 was still MVS' best Nfl season, 33 for 690 20.9 a catch and 6 tds. In 2022 with Mahomes he went for 42 687 16.4 and 2. MVS like Lazard but for different reasons is a very solid #3 NFL wr.

But yes neither is worth 10 m per. Granted I dont think it will be easy to replace Lazards blocking. Christian Watson is also actually very good but you want him catching the ball and being blocked for

Thanks for the stats on MVS. I wouldn't have guessed that his best year was here. His numbers are close in KC, but not as good as 2020.

And yeah, Watson should not be blocking. He's fragile enough as it is. I understand he's going to do a conditioning program in the off season to better avoid injuries. That can't hurt. He has the potential to be something special at WR. But yeah, get somebody else to do blocking from the WR position.

And who knows, maybe Lazard does come back.

 

[tynimiller]

I actually believe his best year was this year. He legit was that teams' third option at best and is still producing like he did when he became our defacto #2 that year for many games.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I actually believe his best year was this year. He legit was that teams' third option at best and is still producing like he did when he became our defacto #2 that year for many games.

MVS, right? I thought his route tree was more varied in KC. In GB, he was pretty much the "go long, go fast" guy. In the few times I saw him this year, Reid was using him in a lot of different formations.

 

[tynimiller]

MVS, right? I thought his route tree was more varied in KC. In GB, he was pretty much the "go long, go fast" guy. In the few times I saw him this year, Reid was using him in a lot of different formations.

Yes this year in KC...but disagree while he was here he was solely a go long guy. Yes first year and partially the second year he was like that...however every year MVS was here his blocking skills, route tree and use varied more or improved steadily.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes this year in KC...but disagree while he was here he was solely a go long guy. Yes first year and partially the second year he was like that...however every year MVS was here his blocking skills, route tree and use varied more or improved steadily.

Good point and I agree. He did progress in some fashion each year, and that includes catching the ball. He sure would have made a difference in GB has they paid him. Oh well, onward.

 

[thequick12]

And who knows, maybe Lazard does come back.

Im thinking the same thing...from his comments after the game its clear whatever the Packers have offered him, if they have, is not anywhere near where he thinks it should be

Unfortunately for him I feel like because unlike MVS he isnt a 4.3 guy. Teams arent going to be willing to give him 10 m per because he's a possession guy to use a somewhat dated derogatory term

 

[Heyjoe4]

Im thinking the same thing...from his comments after the game its clear whatever the Packers have offered him, if they have, is not anywhere near where he thinks it should be

Unfortunately for him I feel like because unlike MVS he isnt a 4.3 guy. Teams arent going to be willing to give him 10 m per because he's a possession guy to use a somewhat dated derogatory term

He's definitely a possession receiver. He moves the sticks. Not much more, not much less - well other than his blocking which is outstanding. I see him worth $6-$8 mil/year. Hey, I'd take it!

 

[OldSchool101]

MVS is what he's always been. He's a good WR3 in this league. He had a career high 81 targets and didn't even beat his 2020 season from GB. Christian Watson Rookie season was > MVS at his best.

The problem I have with Lazard is that he had no bondafide WR1 on this team and he had every opportunity to be that guy. Sammy Watkins sure didn't hold Lazard back! Lazard won't get a much better scenario than what he had in GB and he still didn't capitalize on it. In a 'near best case scenario" he was a WR2. Call Lazard a bonafide WR3 who "out-did" himself.

IF Lazard knocked down the WR "Receiving" part like he knocked down his blocks? He'd be counting TD's in a game instead of how many guys he blocked.

 

[tynimiller]

Guys...Lazard is going to get way more than you guys are thinking. Let's look at some of the most recent WR signings:

Lazard last three seasons: 1,752 yards / 17 TDs....13.2 YPC (career) / 65.3% ctch% (career)

MVS - Signed $10M/Yr deal last year...in the three years prior to signing that he produced 1,572 yards / 11 TDs...17.2 TPC (career) and 50.3% ctch% (career)
Corey Davis - Signed $12.5M/yr after 2020 season...in the three years prior to that signing he produced 2,476 yards / 11 TDs...14.2 YPC (career) and 59.2% ctch% (career)
Nelson Agholor - Signed $11M/Yr after 2020 season...in three years prior to that he produced 1,995 yards / 15 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 59.3% ctch% (career)
Christian Kirk - Signed for $18M/Yr last year...in three years prior to that he produced 2,312 yards / 14 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 65.2% ctch% (career)
Kenny Golladay - Signed a $18M/Yr deal back after 2020 season...three years prior (one of these only played 5 games) produced 2,591 yards / 18 TDs...16.2 YPC (career) and 55.4% ctch% (career)
Allen Robinson - Signed last year a $15.5M/Yr deal...in three years prior to signing that he produced 2,807 yards / 14 TDs...12.8 YPC (career) and 58.6% ctch% (career)

Some of these guys are of course more toolsy or WR1 types but folks Lazard in some ways is as good or better than these WRs in parts of the game.

To believe he is going to get just 60% or 70% of what MVS got I'm sorry I just don't see that. Contracts are exploding...and just like now any starter QB contract is $30M/yr minimum essentially...any WR2 type or close gets $9-$12M/ year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The problem I have with Lazard is that he had no bondafide WR1 on this team and he had every opportunity to be that guy. Sammy Watkins sure didn't hold Lazard back! Lazard won't get a much better scenario than what he had in GB and he still didn't capitalize on it. In a 'near best case scenario" he was a WR2

I'm a bit on the fence when it comes to Lazard and mainly because they still have a weak WR room and it would be just that much weaker without him. Your point of him not stepping up and being the #1 guy, is definitely true, but I think he looked better as a WR when he wasn't trying to be that guy and Davante was. Defenses weren't afraid of Lazard last year or this year, but with no Davante on the field, they had better resources to shut him down. So possibly if the Packers have a legit #1 to go along with Watson, Lazard plays more slot and might have a more productive season.

 

[OldSchool101]

Guys...Lazard is going to get way more than you guys are thinking. Let's look at some of the most recent WR signings:

Lazard last three seasons: 1,752 yards / 17 TDs....13.2 YPC (career) / 65.3% ctch% (career)

MVS - Signed $10M/Yr deal last year...in the three years prior to signing that he produced 1,572 yards / 11 TDs...17.2 TPC (career) and 50.3% ctch% (career)
Corey Davis - Signed $12.5M/yr after 2020 season...in the three years prior to that signing he produced 2,476 yards / 11 TDs...14.2 YPC (career) and 59.2% ctch% (career)
Nelson Agholor - Signed $11M/Yr after 2020 season...in three years prior to that he produced 1,995 yards / 15 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 59.3% ctch% (career)
Christian Kirk - Signed for $18M/Yr last year...in three years prior to that he produced 2,312 yards / 14 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 65.2% ctch% (career)
Kenny Golladay - Signed a $18M/Yr deal back after 2020 season...three years prior (one of these only played 5 games) produced 2,591 yards / 18 TDs...16.2 YPC (career) and 55.4% ctch% (career)
Allen Robinson - Signed last year a $15.5M/Yr deal...in three years prior to signing that he produced 2,807 yards / 14 TDs...12.8 YPC (career) and 58.6% ctch% (career)

Some of these guys are of course more toolsy or WR1 types but folks Lazard in some ways is as good or better than these WRs in parts of the game.

To believe he is going to get just 60% or 70% of what MVS got I'm sorry I just don't see that. Contracts are exploding...and just like now any starter QB contract is $30M/yr minimum essentially...any WR2 type or close gets $9-$12M/ year.

In and by itself that is true and I even agree. WR are at a premium the last couple of seasons and that may continue. I'm in agreement though that you have to look at full spectrum. Who did those guys play with at QB? who did those guys compete with at WR? and what type of system were they in etc.. I will not be at all surprised if someone overpays for Lazard (excess of $10-11m). That said It's doubtful that exceeds the overall production area that he achieved this season and it's likely he's already hit his ceiling.

If this season was Lazard's peak index, then $12mil annual area is overpaying. MVS was in a different set of circumstances as he had 2 Legitimate Receivers that were better than him, Lazard didn't have anyone better than him and he was competing with Rookies in the early stage of their careers and a Slot WR in his twilight years. He's a $7-8mil type WR with blocking upside and that put's his TRUE market value around $8-9mil annual imo (Sportrack has him at $11m) in a funnel. Will GB pay him $10mil annual to appease Rodgers? absolutely because they are veteran depleted. IF Lazard gets more than $10-11Mil annual? hopefully it's somewhere else

 

[thequick12]

Guys...Lazard is going to get way more than you guys are thinking...any WR2 type or close gets $9-$12M/ year.

You honestly think an NFL team is signing him as a number 2 wr? I don't I think so, he's solidly a 3. In this day and age you want your number 2 to be a guy who can put up a 1000 yard season. Lazard cannot and he proved that, this past season especially vividly

 

[Heyjoe4]

Guys...Lazard is going to get way more than you guys are thinking. Let's look at some of the most recent WR signings:

Lazard last three seasons: 1,752 yards / 17 TDs....13.2 YPC (career) / 65.3% ctch% (career)

MVS - Signed $10M/Yr deal last year...in the three years prior to signing that he produced 1,572 yards / 11 TDs...17.2 TPC (career) and 50.3% ctch% (career)
Corey Davis - Signed $12.5M/yr after 2020 season...in the three years prior to that signing he produced 2,476 yards / 11 TDs...14.2 YPC (career) and 59.2% ctch% (career)
Nelson Agholor - Signed $11M/Yr after 2020 season...in three years prior to that he produced 1,995 yards / 15 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 59.3% ctch% (career)
Christian Kirk - Signed for $18M/Yr last year...in three years prior to that he produced 2,312 yards / 14 TDs...12.5 YPC (career) and 65.2% ctch% (career)
Kenny Golladay - Signed a $18M/Yr deal back after 2020 season...three years prior (one of these only played 5 games) produced 2,591 yards / 18 TDs...16.2 YPC (career) and 55.4% ctch% (career)
Allen Robinson - Signed last year a $15.5M/Yr deal...in three years prior to signing that he produced 2,807 yards / 14 TDs...12.8 YPC (career) and 58.6% ctch% (career)

Some of these guys are of course more toolsy or WR1 types but folks Lazard in some ways is as good or better than these WRs in parts of the game.

To believe he is going to get just 60% or 70% of what MVS got I'm sorry I just don't see that. Contracts are exploding...and just like now any starter QB contract is $30M/yr minimum essentially...any WR2 type or close gets $9-$12M/ year.

Yeah I'm afraid you're right. The price has gone WAY up for WRs. We saw that last year with Adams. Packers are mentioned as a landing spot for D. Hopkins but they could never afford him.

 

[thequick12]

They could "afford" Hopkins...but I dont think id want them to

 

[Heyjoe4]

They could "afford" Hopkins...but I dont think id want them to

Agree. Not worth the trouble. They have to straighten out Quay Walker first.

 

[tynimiller]

Agree. Not worth the trouble. They have to straighten out Quay Walker first.

Very confused by this. Quay issues have zero impact on signings.

 

[OldSchool101]

And yeah, Watson should not be blocking. He's fragile enough as it is.

Aside from maybe Lazard he’s one of our best blocking Wideouts. While I understand the sentiment might be a compliment because he’s “too important” to the Offense in the receiving capacity? I highly doubt they would tell Christian to not be involved blocking when on the field.

Watch him sometime when you can and you’ll see him run his guy off the field he’s that important to our success, even when he doesn’t get the ball.

 

[thequick12]

Very confused by this. Quay issues have zero impact on signings.

Dont need another head case on the team

 

[McKnowledge]

Agree. Not worth the trouble. They have to straighten out Quay Walker first.

What do you mean by straighten out Quay Walker?