John Dorsey to take over for Ted Thompson?

[Pkrjones]

Anyone can look at KC's roster and tell there is one reason that team probably won't win a Super Bowl and his name is Alex Smith.

But building a really good roster except for the QB isn't very smart, is it? Smith's 2017 cap number is $16.9Mil, what is KC going to do if they ever find (and need to pay) a real NFL caliber/top 15 QB?

Don't see much of a difference between having a stud QB but weaknesses on D or KC's current situation of loaded team except for a weak-link QB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Some say Dorsey didn't want to give Berry all that money and that is one of the reasons he is no longer there. If you look at Dorsey's last 3 drafts he has killed it and keeps the roster injected with young talent.

Regardless, I would rather have someone going all in and "managing the cap" at the cap limit with a loaded roster then trying to win a Super Bowl 20 plus million under the cap like Thompson is attempting.

Anyone can look at KC's roster and tell there is one reason that team probably won't win a Super Bowl and his name is Alex Smith.

Once again, I'm not arguing that Dorsey hasn't done a great job turning around the Chiefs. But successfully managing the cap is part of a general manager's responsibility.

There's no doubt Thompson has done a great job handling the Packers payroll during his tenure keeping the team competitive over his entire tenure. I'm not convinced KC is headed that way in the near future.

 

[Bagadeez04]

Since this was announced I can't stop thinking about those Bob McGinn articles about Dorsey, from January.

His money quote from six months ago: "All things considered, my foggy crystal ball sees John Dorsey returning to Green Bay from Kansas City and becoming the most likely successor to Ted Thompson."

He lays out a convincing argument of why he thinks this is, and there's likely detail he isn't sharing from his sources. The one thing I couldn't figure out is how he would go from Kansas City to Green Bay. Surely KC would do anything and everything to ensure Dorsey was extended.

But what an amazing turn. The opportunity has presented itself to the Packers if they wish to make a move. I'm just not sure how that would play in a front office already loaded with talented evaluators, and potential GM candidates. And for all we know Ted will stick around for another decade.

Very interesred to see where this goes.

 

[rodell330]

Next Packers GM probably isn't even in Green Bay as far as I'm concerned. TT may ride it out until Rodgers retires. Imagine if TT retires, and the Packers go on to win multiple SB's with Rodgers still under center and the new guy? TT would probably lose more of his mind.

 

[PikeBadger]

Once again, I'm not arguing that Dorsey hasn't done a great job turning around the Chiefs. But successfully managing the cap is part of a general manager's responsibility.

There's no doubt Thompson has done a great job handling the Packers payroll during his tenure keeping the team competitive over his entire tenure. I'm not convinced KC is headed that way in the near future.

I was shocked when I saw KC's cap numbers. There are going to be some established vets getting released in KC in the next 14 months. Their salary numbers look terrible.

 

[brandon2348]

I was shocked when I saw KC's cap numbers. There are going to be some established vets getting released in KC in the next 14 months. Their salary numbers look terrible.

That must mean some of our salary numbers are shameful then.

 

[brandon2348]

But building a really good roster except for the QB isn't very smart, is it? Smith's 2017 cap number is $16.9Mil, what is KC going to do if they ever find (and need to pay) a real NFL caliber/top 15 QB?

Don't see much of a difference between having a stud QB but weaknesses on D or KC's current situation of loaded team except for a weak-link QB.

If you put Aaron Rodgers on the Chiefs roster you would have a Super Bowl team. If you put Alex Smith on the current Packers you would have a team with a losing record. That's the difference.

The Chiefs gave it a shot with Alex Smith and it didn't work out so they went hard and heavy for Mahomes in the draft. Not everyone has the luxury of having Aaron Rodgers.

My reasoning for liking Dorsey so much is I feel he would be better at putting a Super Bowl roster around our Super Bowl QB. I do like what Thompson has done this offseason but it might just be too little too late.

 

[brandon2348]

Once again, I'm not arguing that Dorsey hasn't done a great job turning around the Chiefs. But successfully managing the cap is part of a general manager's responsibility.

There's no doubt Thompson has done a great job handling the Packers payroll during his tenure keeping the team competitive over his entire tenure. I'm not convinced KC is headed that way in the near future.

Not now. After losing both Chris Ballard and John Dorsey you can put a fork in them. They still have some young talent but they lost there main two guys who were bringing all that talent in.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That must mean some of our salary numbers are shameful then.

The Packers are currently overpaying for some players but overall are in a pretty good position regarding the salary cap.

My reasoning for liking Dorsey so much is I feel he would be better at putting a Super Bowl roster around our Super Bowl QB. I do like what Thompson has done this offseason but it might just be too little too late.

It seems Dorsey might be better suited to assemble a team capable of winning now, which might be what the Packers need once Rodgers comes closer to retiring.

Not now. After losing both Chris Ballard and John Dorsey you can put a fork in them. They still have some young talent but they lost there main two guys who were bringing all that talent in.

Taking a look at the Chiefs salary cap situation they were already headed in the wrong direction with Dorsey and Ballard on board.

 

[Carl]

If you put Aaron Rodgers on the Chiefs roster you would have a Super Bowl team. If you put Alex Smith on the current Packers you would have a team with a losing record. That's the difference.

The Chiefs gave it a shot with Alex Smith and it didn't work out so they went hard and heavy for Mahomes in the draft. Not everyone has the luxury of having Aaron Rodgers.

My reasoning for liking Dorsey so much is I feel he would be better at putting a Super Bowl roster around our Super Bowl QB. I do like what Thompson has done this offseason but it might just be too little too late.

The are a few issues with simply putting Rodgers on the Chiefs and saying "look how good they would be."

If Rodgers had been on the Chiefs for the last 13 years, the Chiefs roster would be completely different. They wouldn't have had the luxury of drafting at the top of every round in 2013, 11th in 2012, and top 5 in 2010. Eric Berry certainly would not be a Chief.

The biggest issue, however, is the salary cap. Smith has cost the Chiefs 54.9 million over the last four years. Rodgers has cost the Packer 75.3 million over the past four years. With the well established salary cap issues the Chiefs have, your scenario of Rodgers as a Chief with their current roster is literally impossible.

 

[Carl]

Anyone can look at KC's roster and tell there is one reason that team probably won't win a Super Bowl and his name is Alex Smith.

Maybe Dorsey should have taken the risk in prior drafts of selecting a QB high even though QB wasn't a big need like when TT took Rodgers. He could have taken Carr, Wilson, or Prescott during the past few years. It's on Dorsey that QB is a weak spot.

 

[brandon2348]

Taking a look at the Chiefs salary cap situation they were already headed in the wrong direction with Dorsey and Ballard on board.

Well never know now. Nobody in the league has drafted any better over the last 3 years combined then those guys. In 2019 there cap number is 108 and the cap will increase significantly as well. Plenty of room to maneuver there. I don't consider losing Charles and Maclin as huge losses at all. I believe it all would of came down to Mahomes and his development that would of sealed there fate. I have not a single doubt in my mind that Dorsey would of been willing to put all the other necessary pieces around him.

Once again my liking of Dorsey stems to his willingness to go "all in" along with his ability to evaluate talent and build the back end of the roster. I like that combination. He got jammed up with Alex Smith. That wouldn't happen with Aaron Rodgers.

 

[brandon2348]

Maybe Dorsey should have taken the risk in prior drafts of selecting a QB high even though QB wasn't a big need like when TT took Rodgers. He could have taken Carr, Wilson, or Prescott during the past few years. It's on Dorsey that QB is a weak spot.

They committed to Alex Smith. Once you do that at the QB position and all the money it isn't quite that easy to just pivot in a different direction. We have been so blessed that our QB situation has been so smooth and Thomspon definitely deserves credit for that.

However to put things in perspective the KC Chiefs had to do just about everything right to win games. They had to not turn over the ball and win games on field position along with running the ball effectively and play good defense-special teams and pretty much do everything right. Where the Packers can make tons of mistakes and not really play good defense and we have Aaron Rodgers who covers most of that up giving the team chances to win games at the end.

I understand the Chiefs roster wouldn't look the same as it is now with Aaron Rodgers over the past years but I tend to believe that with Dorsey acquiring talent and not being afraid to pull the trigger to make the team better Rodgers would have more rings then he has now.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But building a really good roster except for the QB isn't very smart, is it? Smith's 2017 cap number is $16.9Mil, what is KC going to do if they ever find (and need to pay) a real NFL caliber/top 15 QB?

Don't see much of a difference between having a stud QB but weaknesses on D or KC's current situation of loaded team except for a weak-link QB.

That's a bizarre argument. If you don't have a franchise QB, this is exactly what you need to do. You try to get to the playoffs with defense, a run game and a game manager, then see what happens.

It's not like there's a choice between having a franchise QB and not. Everybody wants one, and will deal with the consequences of the eventual cap-sucking contract if they can find one. But they are not hanging off trees free for the picking.

Trying to get a franchise QB in free agency simply does not work out. Teams do not let those guys go. There may be the illusion that an experienced QB might be that guy in a different system, a change of scenery, but it just doesn't work out that way. RGIII, Osweiler, etc., etc., etc. Heck, it costs you a first round pick just to get a one year place holder in Bradford under your best case scenario. Or $19 mil guaranteed for Glennon where your best case scenario is he starts for one year and Trubisky takes over in 2018.

Getting a franchise QB is reduced to two options:

1) You keep drafting QBs until you find one that works. Maybe Mahomes proves he's that guy in KC if he starts next year or the year after. Then you have your guy on a cheap rookie deal for 2 or 3 years. Maybe KC will like him enough after this season to dump Smith, pick up $17 mil in cap savings, and roll on.

That's how Seattle got to 2 Super Bowls: paying the QB and 3 other Pro Bowlers to boot a collective $4 million under rookie deals. When that collective number jumped to $40+ mil the job has gotten harder. Dallas has what looks like their franchise guy, though that needs to be confirmed with a follow-up season. 3 more years under a cheap deal leaves a lot of cap to do other things.

2) The other possibility is you roll the dice on a backup who has not played much, the Matt Flynn / Tyrod Taylor / Jimmy Garoppolo (maybe) scenario, where the guy's 4 year rookie deal plays out, the franchise QB is still in place, and somebody takes a shot at the guy in free agency. These guys don't get paid a boatload either, and their getting to franchise status is as much a crap shoot as drafting a QB in the first round.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Maybe Dorsey should have taken the risk in prior drafts of selecting a QB high even though QB wasn't a big need like when TT took Rodgers. He could have taken Carr, Wilson, or Prescott during the past few years. It's on Dorsey that QB is a weak spot.

That's the strongest argument against Dorsey. Or is it? Maybe it was Reid who said they could get over the top with Smith if all the other pieces were in place. Even so, that's not so far fetched.

In the 2012 and 2013 season, we saw Super Bowl teams led by Flaco, Kaepernick and Wilson. Flaco was hardly lighting it up through the air until the playoffs and he's yet to repeat those momentary days in the sun. Wilson threw only 407 times in the regular season, and contributed a lot with his legs. Kaepernik, as we well remember, was more a running threat than as a passer of the football.

These teams featured defense and the ground game. This is not ancient history.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

In 2019 there cap number is 108 and the cap will increase significantly as well. Plenty of room to maneuver there.

While it's true the Chiefs currently have enough cap space to make some moves for 2019 they're in cap hell for the 2018 season by already being over the projected cap of $178 million.

He got jammed up with Alex Smith. That wouldn't happen with Aaron Rodgers.

Dorsey was the one trading for Alex Smith though.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Which "bold move" free agents did Dorsey go out and get this spring? Benny Logan and C.J. Spiller . KC hasn't had a #1 WR in over 10 years... Dwayne Bowe played that role but might've been a solid #2 if Dorsey would've found a #1 along the way.

IMHO Wolf is the future, not Dorsey who is too similar (conservative approach) to TT.

Wolf may indeed be the future, or maybe not. I don't really know anything about him other than who he's related to.

Dorsey did not win any Super Bowls in his four years in KC, but he did resurrect a franchise that had been disaster for years. That, at least, is something to put on a resume.

 

[Pkrjones]

Wolf may indeed be the future, or maybe not. I don't really know anything about him other than who he's related to.

Dorsey did not win any Super Bowls in his four years in KC, but he did resurrect a franchise that had been disaster for years. That, at least, is something put on a resume.

I would be very happy with Dorsey as our new GM IF Wolf isn't offered the job or goes elsewhere. Just noticing similarities to TT by building-up many areas of the team but allowing a position or 2 to remain weak every year instead of using FA to temporarily shore up: GB's weaknesses over last 6 yrs. at TE, then ILB, KC's weak spots of QB & WR.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just noticing similarities to TT by building-up many areas of the team but allowing a position or 2 to remain weak every year instead of using FA to temporarily shore up: GB's weaknesses over last 6 yrs. at TE, then ILB, KC's weak spots of QB & WR.

The difference being that Dorsey tried to aggressively upgrade those weaknesses while Thompson mainly stood pat for too long addressing positions of need.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I would be very happy with Dorsey as our new GM IF Wolf isn't offered the job or goes elsewhere. Just noticing similarities to TT by building-up many areas of the team but allowing a position or 2 to remain weak every year instead of using FA to temporarily shore up: GB's weaknesses over last 6 yrs. at TE, then ILB, KC's weak spots of QB & WR.

What is the foundation for your passion for Eliot Wolf?

 

[Pkrjones]

What is the foundation for your passion for Eliot Wolf?

Just that he's been involved with 24 years of Packer's drafting and has been sitting in on film study, player evaluations and scouting since he was 10 years old. Can only imagine the "nuggets" he's picked-up from not only his dad but all of the scouts, personnel guys and players that have come and gone over those years. Has been involved with all aspects of talent evaluation and has quickly risen up the corporate ladder, so think he's ready to successfully run a team.

As I said, Dorsey would be a great plan B if Wolf doesn't succeed TT, but don't like that Dorsey left the KC WR position a weakness for so long.

 

[AmishMafia]

Just that he's been involved with 24 years of Packer's drafting and has been sitting in on film study, player evaluations and scouting since he was 10 years old. Can only imagine the "nuggets" he's picked-up from not only his dad but all of the scouts, personnel guys and players that have come and gone over those years. Has been involved with all aspects of talent evaluation and has quickly risen up the corporate ladder, so think he's ready to successfully run a team.

As I said, Dorsey would be a great plan B if Wolf doesn't succeed TT, but don't like that Dorsey left the KC WR position a weakness for so long.

Brian Gutekunst has more years of experience scouting and has played and coached at the college level. Alonzo highsmith has more expe rience as well, and played in the nfl at very high level. Dorsey has significant more experience than wolf as well .

The only thing that us fans can really point to is his name. Wolf. Whose father was nearly as good as TT in the GM department. It's out of nostalgia that so many fans endorse him.

I will also state, player evaluations is a very small part of a GMs success. Most GMs fail due to inferior managerial skills than anything else. I see it in the engineering world often. A brilliant engineer gets promoted and fails because they only excell at nits and bolts and have poor leadership, organizational, communication, etc skills.

Remember when Holmgren left Seattle? There were many posters that wanted to have him as the president or GM. Brown's hire him in that capacity and he failed miserably. Just because he was successful as a coach, doesnt mean he would succeed in the front office. He was a very poor GM. He quickly realized he was in over his head and began planning his exit within a year.

I have no idea if Wolf will succeed at being a GM, and neither does any other poster here. Enjoy TT while we have him, chances are we will not find a better one.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The only thing that us fans can really point to is his name. Wolf. Whose father was nearly as good as TT in the GM department.

Enjoy TT while we have him, chances are we will not find a better one.

It took like an eternity, but finally another post (at least part of it) from you I can vehemently disagree with.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Wolf. Whose father was nearly as good as TT in the GM department.

LOL

 

[AmishMafia]

It took like an eternity, but finally another post (at least part of it) from you I can vehemently disagree with.

And the universe feels back in order . . .