Jared Abbrederis

[Ogsponge]

You know it is the offseason where there are 8 pages of arguing about who the better no name receiver is. This is coming from a huge Badgers fan who believes Abby has a chance to be a solid receiver IF he can get stronger and stay healthy. But as of right now, both of these guys mean exactly jack to the Packers organization. We won't know anything about either one of them until camp and preseason are over and 1, both or neither of them is on the roster and playing in actual NFL game for anything more than mop up duty.

And for all of you ridiculous Badger haters, Wisconsin produces NFL talent at prodigious rate. Coming out of Wisconsin does not mean you suck, it means you are pretty damn good and have a good chance at a solid NFL career, unless your are a running back...

There were 7 players from Wisconsion on NFL rosters during this last NFL championship weekend and 6 in the Superbowl. Not to mention Wisconsin has produced arguably the two most dominant offensive and defensive NFL lineman in recent history in Thomas and Watt.

Stop hating on the Badgers and spread the love, unless of course they are running back...

Btu Gordon is going to change that perception!

 

[GoPGo]

.

I'm not answering the B.S. about him going to SVU yet again. I already debunked that nonsense with examples of fine players who have played D-II and even D-III ball. Janis put up better numbers at SVU than Pierre Garcon did at Mount Union. So this is the last I have to say about that crap.

Once again, the main concern with Abbrederis is his ability to stay healthy.

Yes. That's a HUGE concern, but it's definitely not the only one. It's possibly not even the primary one. He's also a mediocre athlete who is not particularly fast. The man benched 225 lbs. a whopping FOUR times. That's below average for a high school receiver. For an NFL player that's absolutely weak! I know you want to sweep that under the rug, but if Janis only did four reps you and I both know you'd be all over that.

Now you've already established that you don't value athleticism in NFL players, but how, exactly, do you expect him to beat press coverage? He lacks the lateral quickness to sidestep an NFL CB on any consistent basis and he definitely isn't strong enough to beat a jam. NFL defensive backs are not going to fear his speed, so there's no way they'll be playing him 8 yards deep. I know in UW's simple passing offense (the Packers passing game is far, far more complex BTW), Abbrederis was a good route runner, and that would be great if he could bring that to the Packers, but I just don't see where he has the physical tools to get off the line cleanly in the NFL. He pretty much has to make the team as a kick returner and that's where Montgomery likely beats him.

I agree it doesn't do the Packers any good if he can't get on the field but there really shouldn't be any doubt as to who is the more polished receiver out of him and Janis.

No, there's shouldn't. It's actually fairly obvious. In fact, to me it's so obvious that I don't see Abbrederis making the team at all if we only keep five WR. If we keep six, he's going to have some stiff competition from Coxson to get the final spot. In the end, I think he misses the final cut.

 

[GoPGo]

The Packers drafted Abbrederis 60 spots ahead of Janis because at that time they thought he was the better player.

Really? Were you in the war room on draft day? Teams let players fall who they believe are under the radar all the time. How do you know that wasn't the thought process? You don't. You're making assumptions.

Your examples prove that it doesn't always work out that way in the long haul but Janis hasn't done anything so far that deserves him being considered a better receiver than Abbrederis.

Yeah, he has, actually.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There were 7 players from Wisconsion on NFL rosters during this last NFL championship weekend and 6 in the Superbowl. Not to mention Wisconsin has produced arguably the two most dominant offensive and defensive NFL lineman in recent history in Thomas and Watt.

I don't want to diminish the success former Badgers had or are having in the NFL as there have been numerous examples like Watt and Thomas but only one of the Wisconsin alumnus in the championship round was a starter in Russell Wilson (who played most of his college career for North Carolina State).

 

[GoPGo]

Montgomery will make the roster for sure as Thompson won't give up on a third round pick.

Obviously, but who ends up #4 is up in the air. It's not at this point Montgomery's to lose. BTW, how exactly would you determine who gets the #4 spot anyway? You've already made clear that you don't give a damn what a player does in TC or preseason. In fact, those are pretty much your very words on the matter. So how do you determine a player's roster spot? Seems to me the only criteria you would use is where a player was drafted and where he went to school.

It's funny that you are concerned about Montgomery's route running and being far from a polished receiver while you completely negate these things when it comes to Janis.

I didn't dismiss anything. I know he came in with things to work on (and you seem to think Abbrederis doesn't.) He admitted he needed the work too. You don't think the quality of his coaching in the last year has been better than his previous coaching? You don't think that has made a difference? Everyone who is actually in the know about what happens at 1265, including teammates, coaches and sports writers who have access have indicated that he is progressing nicely, including McCarthy. You want to dismiss that as lies and fabrications, but I see no reason why they would do that. You don't like it because it doesn't fit your paradigm.

BTW Montgomery had a single reception on a fly route last season.

Excellent!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not answering the B.S. about him going to SVU yet again. I already debunked that nonsense with examples of fine players who have played D-II and even D-III ball. Janis put up better numbers at SVU than Pierre Garcon did at Mount Union. So this is the last I have to say about that crap.

You mentioned three receivers out of D-II or D-III schools who have had fine NFL careers in Pierre Garcon, Vincent Jackson and Jacoby Jones. The reason all of them didn't get to play for FBS teams was that they were two-sports athletes not 100% committed to playing football. Another one is Cecil Shorts, who was a teammate of Garcon at Mount Union, who enrolled there as QB before becoming a receiver.

The only reason Janis didn't play in the FBS was because of a lack of talent. Those guys (like the four I mentioned who had more receptions and receiving yards than Janis in 2013) mostly don't make it in the NFL.

Yes. That's a HUGE concern, but it's definitely not the only one. It's possibly not even the primary one. He's also a mediocre athlete who is not particularly fast. The man benched 225 lbs. a whopping FOUR times. That's below average for a high school receiver. For an NFL player that's absolutely weak! I know you want to sweep that under the rug, but if Janis only did four reps you and I both know you'd be all over that.

Now you've already established that you don't value athleticism in NFL players, but how, exactly, do you expect him to beat press coverage? He lacks the lateral quickness to sidestep an NFL CB on any consistent basis and he definitely isn't strong enough to beat a jam. NFL defensive backs are not going to fear his speed, so there's no way they'll be playing him 8 yards deep. I know in UW's simple passing offense (the Packers passing game is far, far more complex BTW), Abbrederis was a good route runner, and that would be great if he could bring that to the Packers, but I just don't see where he has the physical tools to get off the line cleanly. He pretty much has to make the team as a kick returner and that's where Montgomery likely beats him.

There's no denying health is a huge concern with Abbrederis. I expect he has improve his strength spending an entire season training with the Packers.

BTW speed shouldn't be an issue with him. He ran a 4.50 40, which is only 8/100 of a second slower than Janis, a difference that is actually neglectable.

Really? Were you in the war room on draft day? Teams let players fall who they believe are under the radar all the time. How do you know that wasn't the thought process? You don't. You're making assumptions.

This is by far the most ludicrous statement in the entire thread (although you already set the bar really high), for sure not worth commenting on.

 

[Ogsponge]

I don't want to diminish the success former Badgers had or are having in the NFL as there have been numerous examples like Watt and Thomas but only one of the Wisconsin alumnus in the championship round was a starter in Russell Wilson (who played most of his college career for North Carolina State).

True, but still Wisconsin players on Super Bowl teams none the less, just seems like on this board when it comes to the Badgers there is no in between either everyone hates everything Badgers or everyone loves everything Badgers.

The one thing that the Badgers as a football team shows is how important a great offensive line is in CFB, the Badgers have 1000 yard rusher after 1000 yard rusher and not a one of them has had true success in the NFL.

But back to the point, I agree with you on the fact that Janis has not done anything to just hand him the job over abby, I would imagine the two of them going into preason dead even and the job is there for whoever takes it.

 

[TJV]

Really? Were you in the war room on draft day? Teams let players fall who they believe are under the radar all the time. How do you know that wasn't the thought process? You don't. You're making assumptions.

With all the money and hours put into evaluating college players today, there are almost no surprises in the draft. If you think the Packers valued Janis more than Abbrederis in that draft you not only are making a huge assumption but have the burden of presenting evidence to support that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Obviously, but who ends up #4 is up in the air. It's not at this point Montgomery's to lose. BTW, how exactly would you determine who gets the #4 spot anyway? You've already made clear that you don't give a damn what a player does in TC or preseason. In fact, those are pretty much your very words on the matter. So how do you determine a player's roster spot? Seems to me the only criteria you would use is where a player was drafted and where he went to school.

Once again, I told you not to put too much or any stock into preseason STATS. It's the game film and reports from practice I'm looking at, in a receiver's case trying to get information about his route running, catching radius and being able to adjust his routes depending on the defensive look.

 

[GoPGo]

You mentioned three receivers out of D-II or D-III schools who have had fine NFL careers in Pierre Garcon, Vincent Jackson and Jacoby Jones. The reason all of them didn't get to play for FBS teams was that they were two-sports athletes not 100% committed to playing football.

More BS. There are a lot of D-I players who were dual sport athletes. Nice try though.

The only reason Janis didn't play in the FBS was because of a lack of talent.

No, he didn't play FBS because he came from a small town and a 2A high school. Small high schools don't get many visits from scouts. If he didn't have any talent, the Packers never would have drafted him, let alone put him on the roster.

There's no denying health is a huge concern with Abbrederis. I expect he has improve his strength spending an entire season training with the Packers.

Just as I expect Janis has improved on the areas he needs to improve spending an entire season on the practice field with the Packers.

BTW speed shouldn't be an issue with him. He ran a 4.50 40, which is only 8/100 of a second slower than Janis, a difference that is actually neglectable.

It's actually a difference of about 4 feet of separation, so for a receiver, yeah, it's significant.

This is by far the most ludicrous statement in the entire thread (although you already set the bar really high), for sure not worth commenting on.

Oh, so you WERE in the war room and you knew the thinking behind the Thompson's decisions that day? My mistake then!

 

[TeamTundra]

We must be pretty stacked at WR if we are arguing who is the 4th best versus 5th best.

I happen to like both Abbrederis and Janis and hope both make strides and contribute
This upcoming season.

 

[GoPGo]

Once again, I told you not to put too much or any stock into preseason STATS.

Who's looking at stats? His preseason stats are pretty simple. 2 catches, 67 yards and 2 TDs. Big deal. But it's the way in which he got those TDs. They weren't blown coverages. On one he beat the entire Rams secondary (who were all former FCS players, for the record) around the corner and according to teammates, he still had another gear he didn't have to use. The other came when he cleanly beat another former FCS (since that requirement is so critical to your thinking) corner back and he even had to slow down because the ball was slightly under-thrown.

Those two plays would have been impressive for ANY rookie, at any draft position, from any school, let alone for a worthless, no-talent waste of a draft pick from a D-II school.

It's the game film and reports from practice I'm looking at, in a receiver's case trying to get information about his route running, catching radius and being able to adjust his routes depending on the defensive look.

So I assume you're pretty skeptical about Montgomery too, since those are the things scouts were most concerned about with him?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

More BS. There are a lot of D-I players who were dual sport athletes. Nice try though.

Geez, you really have trouble in reading comprehension. Once again, all of the successful receivers out of D-II or D-III were guys competing in two sports. That doesn't mean that there aren't any dual sports athletes playing in the FBS but that there aren't any decent WRs in the NFL who had to play in D-II or D-III with football being the only sport they were competing in.

No, he didn't play FBS because he came from a small town and a 2A high school. Small high schools don't get many visits from scouts.

He didn't even get an offer from a FCS school. I'm quite sure you come up with another stupid reason for that.

Oh, so you WERE in the war room and you knew the thinking behind the Thompson's decisions that day? My mistake then!

Thompson picked Abbrederis 60 spots ahead of Janis!!! Everyone in their right mind would realize that the Packers front office considered him the better receiver out of the two, otherwise TT would have picked Janis in the fifth round.

 

[GoPGo]

Thompson picked Abbrederis 60 spots ahead of Janis!!! Everyone in their right mind would realize that the Packers front office considered him the better receiver out of the two, otherwise TT would have picked Janis in the fifth round.

No anyone in their right mind understands that there are numerous factors that go into when a player is drafted, including other teams' interest levels, specific roles, and how far a team might think a player could fall. You WAY over-simpify things.

I'm done with your endless disdain. I can only assume you aren't able to recognize ability. Luckily, the Packers can... ESPECIALLY where wide receivers are concerned. That's all that matters.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So I assume you're pretty skeptical about Montgomery too, since those are the things scouts were most concerned about with him?

I've posted in some other threads that I'm pretty skeptical about using Montgomery as a traditional WR.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No anyone in their right mind understands that there are numerous factors that go into when a player is drafted, including other teams' interest levels, specific roles, and how far a team might think a player could fall. You WAY over-simpify things.

How in the world would Thompson, if thinking that Janis was the better receiver out of the two, know that all other teams would pass on him for another two rounds???

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Gentlemen.........It`s obvious that you two are never going to see eye to eye here. While the moderators are happy to allow constructive discussion, this seems to be digressing into a slanging match. Just a friendly warning at the moment, but either keep it polite or use the ignore feature.

 

[RRyder]

We must be pretty stacked at WR if we are arguing who is the 4th best versus 5th best.

I happen to like both Abbrederis and Janis and hope both make strides and contribute
This upcoming season.

Ironically we really aren't stacked at WR. #1-3 sure we're set. #4-6 not even a lil bit.

Im not high on Montgomery but he'll get a roster spot simply based off his draft position but NEITHER Janis or Abbredariss has anything to warrent a whole lot of confidence and for some reason a certain poster took offence to a few others suggesting they'll go into camp on equal footing.

Crazy right? With Abbredaris having been on IR all year and Janis having the on the field production of a player only slightly better then someone who spent the year on IR it's crazy how people can think we're stacked at WR after or top 3. We got potential at the 4-6 spots yes. But potential gets coachs fired

 

[sschind]

No anyone in their right mind understands that there are numerous factors that go into when a player is drafted, including other teams' interest levels, specific roles, and how far a team might think a player could fall. You WAY over-simpify things.

I'm done with your endless disdain. I can only assume you aren't able to recognize ability. Luckily, the Packers can... ESPECIALLY where wide receivers are concerned. That's all that matters.

So you are suggesting that Ted drafted Abbredaris 60 spots before Janis because even though he thought Janis was better he didn't think other GMs would let Abbredaris slide and he figured they would let Janis slide. I think you maybe the one who is over complicating things.

I could see this MAYBE having an effect if you had 2 picks maybe 5 or 10 spots apart. You MIGHT think player A is better but you think he may slide while player B may have more appeal to one or more teams between your two picks so you go with player B first. I doubt that would happen but you never know.

 

[GoPGo]

I've posted in some other threads that I'm pretty skeptical about using Montgomery as a traditional WR.

Fair enough then.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I could see this MAYBE having an effect if you had 2 picks maybe 5 or 10 spots apart. You MIGHT think player A is better but you think he may slide while player B may have more appeal to one or more teams between your two picks so you go with player B first. I doubt that would happen but you never know.

There's a slim chance something like that happens with prospects playing different positions based on the needs of teams selecting between your picks, but there's no way it happens with players playing the same position.

 

[GoPGo]

Gentlemen.........It`s obvious that you two are never going to see eye to eye here. While the moderators are happy to allow constructive discussion, this seems to be digressing into a slanging match. Just a friendly warning at the moment, but either keep it polite or use the ignore feature.

Just some intense debate, boss. I don't hold grudges against anyone and I don't think CWIMM does either from what I can tell.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just some intense debate, boss. I don't hold grudges against anyone and I don't think CWIMM does either from what I can tell.

No grudges against anyone here either.

 

[GoPGo]

There's a slim chance something like that happens with prospects playing different positions based on the needs of teams selecting between your picks, but there's no way it happens with players playing the same position.

I'm just wondering if you could answer the question of how you expect Abbrederis to be able handle the press coverage he will inevitably face as an NFL WR. I didn't intend that to be rhetorical. I was actually interested in your response to that. It requires upper body strength that he simply doesn't have.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm just wondering if you could answer the question of how you expect Abbrederis to be able handle the press coverage he will inevitably face as an NFL WR. I didn't intend that to be rhetorical. I was actually interested in your response to that. It requires upper body strength that he simply doesn't have.

Abbrederis will have trouble beating press coverage if he hasn't improved his upper body strength since last year's combine, there's no doubt about that. I hope that spending a season with the Packers training staff has made him stronger.

BTW I'm well aware of Abbrederis shortcomings and if you go back the entire thread I've never said anything about being convinced that he will make an impact with the Packers in 2015.

The thing I have been trying to get you to understand is that Janis has some weaknesses as well and while he's way more athletic than Abby he has to improve his route running and catching radius. He hasn't done that enough during last season to move past Boykin or even Dorsey on the depth chart.

It's possibly that both, only one or none of them will actually make the Packers final roster. If Nelson, Cobb and Adams will stay healthy again for an entire season I would be surprised if any other receiver on the roster would make a huge impact during next season.