Jan 12th next game

[Mondio]

it's far enough out the weather forecast won't mean much until 3-4 days out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

it's far enough out the weather forecast won't mean much until 3-4 days out.

I would have agreed with you 3 or 4 years ago, but it seems like weather forecasting has gotten pretty damn accurate, even as far as 10 days out. My old motto was "We have a 100% chance of weather tomorrow". Now, these meteorologists seem to nail almost everything they predict, especially when it comes to temps. Precipitation can vary a bit, but they are still pretty accurate as of late.

 

[RRyder]

Replace Rodgers with 20-25 other starting quarterbacks in this league and you'd be crying like a little school girl for Rodgers to come back.

Aaron Jones is the only reason on offense, yet he's played what? 61% of the offensive snaps this season? This is a curious take to say the least. I'm not in any way diminishing the effect of Aaron Jones, because the Packers aren't 13-3 without him.

But just because Rodgers didn't have a 110 passer rating with 40 touchdown passes doesn't mean that he hasn't be a VITAL part of the Packers success this season.

Will he have to be better for the Packers to win the Super Bowl? Yes. But to say that he hasn't contributed to the position that the Packers are in right now is just such a clown statement.

Are you trying to argue that Rodgers has been a top 10 QB this season?

Rodgers has been an extremely average QB this year. He just has been. Teams can win with average QBs despite what we as GB fans have been conditioned to over the years.

If people want to act like I'm trying to attack Rodgers that's fine but acting like the Packers success this year has hinged on him or that hes been the most important piece to the puzzle (which is what I was replying to) is the clown statement

 

[PackAttack12]

Are you trying to argue that Rodgers has been a top 10 QB this season?

Nope. Read it again. I said replace Rodgers with 20-25 quarterbacks in the NFL this year and you'd be begging for Rodgers. I dare you to name 10 other quarterbacks that would have this team at 13-3 right now. Despite whatever their numbers tell you.

This is the problem. Some like to always point toward the numbers and say that player A or player B is having a better statistical season, so that automatically means that have a bigger impact on their teams. It's ridiculous.

 

[RRyder]

Nope. Read it again. I said replace Rodgers with 20-25 quarterbacks in the NFL this year and you'd be begging for Rodgers. I dare you to name 10 other quarterbacks that would have this team at 13-3 right now. Despite whatever their numbers tell you.

This is the problem. Some like to always point toward the numbers and say that player A or player B is having a better statistical season, so that automatically means that have a bigger impact on their teams. It's ridiculous.

I read it again and read what you just posted and it still sounds like you're arguing Rodgers is a top 10 QB this year. It really isnt hard to name 10 QBs that have been better then Rodgers this year

As for simply looking at the stats well we could also point to the number of over throws or missing the check downs etc etc.

I guess I should take a more direct approach though and simply ask why you think Rodgers has had this massive impact and should get the majority of the credit for this teams success over the D and Jones and what part of his play makes you think hes had a better year then his numbers dictate? Because it seems that the only argument is that his last name is Rodgers

It's ok. The Packers have gotten to 13-3 and the 2 seed with average QB play. THAT'S A GOOD THING cause it means that if Rodgers can get it together even just a little bit this team can make noise. Still it's silly to try and make it seem like hes been better then he has been this year simply because people seem unwilling to question him

 

[PackAttack12]

I read it again and read what you just posted and it still sounds like you're arguing Rodgers is a top 10 QB this year. It really isnt hard to name 10 QBs that have been better then Rodgers this year

As for simply looking at the stats well we could also point to the number of over throws or missing the check downs etc etc.

I guess I should take a more direct approach though and simply ask why you think Rodgers has had this massive impact and should get the majority of the credit for this teams success over the D and Jones and what part of his play makes you think hes had a better year then his numbers dictate? Because it seems that the only argument is that his last name is Rodgers

It's ok. The Packers have gotten to 13-3 and the 2 seed with average QB play. THAT'S A GOOD THING cause it means that if Rodgers can get it together even just a little bit this team can make noise. Still it's silly to try and make it seem like hes been better then he has been this year simply because people seem unwilling to question him

Again I'll pose the question, since you danced around it. Regardless of who you think have had the better season(s), name 10 quarterbacks that you could have put in place of Rodgers that would have the Packers at 13-3 right now.

You can argue all day long until you're blue in the face about 'x' amount of quarterbacks having the better season (however you wish to classify it), but which 10 quarterbacks would have the Packers at 13-3 right now in place of Rodgers?

After that, I'll entertain your other points.

 

[OldSchool101]

I read it again and read what you just posted and it still sounds like you're arguing Rodgers is a top 10 QB this year. It really isnt hard to name 10 QBs that have been better then Rodgers this year

I’m sorry to intervene in your debate, but there’s about 500 different QB stats you can use. None of them are as important as Wins. A QB primary job is to win games, not impress us with 2nd down % or whatever. None of it matters if you don’t manage the game and achieve a high Win rate. You forget that there’s more to QB responsibility than throw away %. Even using that stat only shows me your reaching to support an argument. Unless it’s combined with a poor Win Loss, Poor Passing yards, High INT rate, Low TD rate, etc.. then it’s all frivolous.

Aaron Rodgers is in or near top 10 in every MAJOR category and that’s undeniable.

But just for argument, Even if we did look at QB stats Rodgers is in the top 10 in major categories like
Championships
Playoff Appearances/Division Leader
Playoff Wins
Season Total yards
Season Passing TDs
Career TDs
Etc...

Nobody prints t-shirts with Brett Favre’s
throw-away %. Nobody cares! That statistic is tertiary level and quite insignificant IMO.

 

[RRyder]

I’m sorry to intervene in your debate, but there’s about 500 different QB stats you can use. None of them are as important as Wins. A QB primary job is to win games, not impress us with 2nd down % or whatever. None of it matters if you don’t manage the game and achieve a high Win rate. You forget that there’s more to QB responsibility than throw away %. Even using that stat only shows me your reaching to support an argument. Unless it’s combined with a poor Win Loss, Poor Passing yards, High INT rate, Low TD rate, etc.. then it’s all frivolous.

Aaron Rodgers is in or near top 10 in every MAJOR category and that’s undeniable.

But just for argument, Even if we did look at QB stats Rodgers is in the top 10 in major categories like
Championships
Playoff Appearances/Division Leader
Playoff Wins
Season Total yards
Season Passing TDs
Career TDs
Etc...

Nobody prints t-shirts with Brett Favre’s
throw-away %. Nobody cares! That statistic is tertiary level and quite insignificant IMO.

Uhmmm for one wtf do career rankings have to do with the discussion

For second (and the bolded part) that's a team accomplishment

 

[RRyder]

Again I'll pose the question, since you danced around it. Regardless of who you think have had the better season(s), name 10 quarterbacks that you could have put in place of Rodgers that would have the Packers at 13-3 right now.

You can argue all day long until you're blue in the face about 'x' amount of quarterbacks having the better season (however you wish to classify it), but which 10 quarterbacks would have the Packers at 13-3 right now in place of Rodgers?

After that, I'll entertain your other points.

Can I ask why you threw in "regardless of who had a better season" part before I actually give you a list?

Seems kind of silly to say the Packers would be worse off with a QB who was better this year

(and oh so kind of you to entertain my other points if I capitulate to you. So kind)

 

[gbgary]

I’m sorry to intervene in your debate, but there’s about 500 different QB stats you can use. None of them are as important as Wins.

but wins isn't a qb stat. the Packers are 13-3 due to the D and aaron jones primarily. rodgers has been pretty good at times though.

 

[PackAttack12]

Can I ask why you threw in "regardless of who had a better season" part before I actually give you a list?

Seems kind of silly to say the Packers would be worse off with a QB who was better this year

(and oh so kind of you to entertain my other points if I capitulate to you. So kind)

If you could name 10, you would have done it already.

 

[RRyder]

If you could name 10, you would have done it already.

Yeah that must be it. Or I'm at work. But just for you I'll take the time to actually list them for you (even though YOU are the one that made the bold claim only to ask someone else for a list and have been condescending in dodging every question I posed)

The pretty clearly were better then Rodgers this year tier:

Watson, Jackson, Mahomes, Brees, Wilson and yes even Dak

The still had better years but you'll make some excuse tier:

Cousins, Wentz, Brady, Jimmy G

I couldve put Tannehill in the above group pretty easily but decided not to make your head explode (and I allready hit your 10 pretty handily)

I love Rodgers but hes had a year this season that puts him right there in the middle of the pack (or an average QB)

I never even said he was bad. I said hes been an average QB all season and that the main reasons this team has won 13 games is Jones and the D but somehow anything other then saying "Rodgers is the main reason this team is winning and that hes been a top flight QB this year" just isnt good enough

And I know this is a waste of time because "something something I dont care about your stats or how each have played because Rodgers is god"

 

[PackAttack12]

Yeah that must be it. Or I'm at work. But just for you I'll take the time to actually list them for you (even though YOU are the one that made the bold claim only to ask someone else for a list and have been condescending in dodging every question I posed)

The pretty clearly were better then Rodgers this year tier:

Watson, Jackson, Mahomes, Brees, Wilson and yes even Dak

The still had better years but you'll make some excuse tier:

Cousins, Wentz, Brady, Jimmy G

I couldve put Tannehill in the above group pretty easily but decided not to make your head explode (and I allready hit your 10 pretty handily)

I love Rodgers but hes had a year this season that puts him right there in the middle of the pack (or an average QB)

I never even said he was bad. I said hes been an average QB all season and that the main reasons this team has won 13 games is Jones and the D but somehow anything other then saying "Rodgers is the main reason this team is winning and that hes been a top flight QB this year" just isnt good enough

And I know this is a waste of time because "something something I dont care about your stats or how each have played because Rodgers is god"

If it was such an obvious list, it would have taken you 2 minutes. After some of the lengthy posts you have made today, I don’t want to hear about oh I’m at work.

I was actually going to concede these names, even though if I really wanted to get technical I could debate a couple of names due to system, fit, etc. But I’ll concede these, based strictly on your premise that they had better seasons statistically:

Mahomes
Jackson
Brees
Wilson
Wentz
Jimmy G
Watson

This is where you make me laugh though. Dak? You mean the same Dak whose team was favored in 15 of the 16 games they played and finished a whopping 8-8? The same Dak who routinely throughout the season did jack **** in the first half of games, only to pile up garbage yards in the second half and fourth quarters of games? The same Dak that has zero game winning drives this year? There’s not a chance in hell that Dak wins 13 games with this Packers team. He’s been booty this year when games were on the line. If you can’t acknowledge that, go back and watch some tape.

In what universe did Brady have a better year than Rodgers? You mean the same Brady that couldn’t win a single ball game this year when his defense couldn’t hold teams below 17 points? The same Brady who threw critical interceptions in all four of his losses? Before you mention his weapons, he’s throwing to Edelman and James White. Edelman is a super bowl MVP, and James White holds the playoff record for most receptions in a single game. Sony Michel was a monster in the playoffs last year and is a good back. Harry is a 1st round pick at wide receiver. Dorsett is no scrub. Yes, no Gronk, but Brady pulled off the greatest comeback ever in 2016 with no Gronk, and throwing most of his balls to two guys that are on his team right now. Historically, in years past, that would be enough for Brady to make his offenses look good. Yet he couldn’t win 13 games in a system in which he has played in and perfected for YEARS. With the best defense statistically in football. You really think he would have won 13 games with the Packers in a system he has never ran before? At age 42? Come on man.

I’d be more than happy to tear you to shreds on Ryan effin Tannehill and Kirk Cousins, but I’m getting a little bored.

Even with that, I’ll grant you 9. And that’s extremely generous, given that I’ve liked a lot of your content in the past. But you’re off your meds with this one.

There’s way more to being a quarterback of a winning team than just putting up gaudy stats. Rodgers has said multiple times this year that this is a different team. Yes, he’s relying more on the defense. Yes, he’s relying more on Aaron Jones. But again, as great as Jones has been, he’s played 61% of the snaps, and the defense, while really good, is 9th in points allowed. Let’s not act like they are the 2000 ravens or the 2002 Bucs.

Rodgers is making all of the correct checks, audibles, etc at the line of scrimmage. His processing of the information to get from a bad play to a good play or from a good play to a great play is something that is being ignored here. He’s had a few game winning drives. He’s made plays in crunch time when they MATTER. There’s been a couple of games this year in which he’s ran the clock out by managing the situation, and getting timely first downs when needed. Those are things that guys like Dak, Cousins, Tannehill cannot do consistently enough to win 13 games with the roster that Rodgers is doing it with.

The defense has been really good. Aaron Jones has been really good. And while Aaron Rodgers by his standards has been average in terms of stats, he’s brought home a lot of wins with clutch play when it counts. He doesn’t deserve near the percentage of credit he’s gotten in the past, but he deserves a significant portion.

Brady has won so many games over the years and has had so many modest seasons in the past because he isn’t worried about statistics. He’s worried about winning football games. Look at Brady in 2013 for instance. His numbers aren’t much different than Rodgers’ this year at all.

I’m shocked that you think winning 13 games as a quarterback in the NFL is that easy. Lol.

 

[Do7]

Watson did not have a better year than Rodgers, and neither did Garoppolo. Garoppolo just happened to be on a better team.

 

[RRyder]

If it was such an obvious list, it would have taken you 2 minutes. After some of the lengthy posts you have made today, I don’t want to hear about oh I’m at work.

I was actually going to concede these names, even though if I really wanted to get technical I could debate a couple of names due to system, fit, etc. But I’ll concede these, based strictly on your premise that they had better seasons statistically:

Mahomes
Jackson
Brees
Wilson
Wentz
Jimmy G
Watson

This is where you make me laugh though. Dak? You mean the same Dak whose team was favored in 15 of the 16 games they played and finished a whopping 8-8? The same Dak who routinely throughout the season did jack **** in the first half of games, only to pile up garbage yards in the second half and fourth quarters of games? The same Dak that has zero game winning drives this year? There’s not a chance in hell that Dak wins 13 games with this Packers team. He’s been booty this year when games were on the line. If you can’t acknowledge that, go back and watch some tape.

In what universe did Brady have a better year than Rodgers? You mean the same Brady that couldn’t win a single ball game this year when his defense couldn’t hold teams below 17 points? The same Brady who threw critical interceptions in all four of his losses? Before you mention his weapons, he’s throwing to Edelman and James White. Edelman is a super bowl MVP, and James White holds the playoff record for most receptions in a single game. Sony Michel was a monster in the playoffs last year and is a good back. Harry is a 1st round pick at wide receiver. Dorsett is no scrub. Yes, no Gronk, but Brady pulled off the greatest comeback ever in 2016 with no Gronk, and throwing most of his balls to two guys that are on his team right now. Historically, in years past, that would be enough for Brady to make his offenses look good. Yet he couldn’t win 13 games in a system in which he has played in and perfected for YEARS. With the best defense statistically in football. You really think he would have won 13 games with the Packers in a system he has never ran before? At age 42? Come on man.

I’d be more than happy to tear you to shreds on Ryan effin Tannehill and Kirk Cousins, but I’m getting a little bored.

Even with that, I’ll grant you 9. And that’s extremely generous, given that I’ve liked a lot of your content in the past. But you’re off your meds with this one.

There’s way more to being a quarterback of a winning team than just putting up gaudy stats. Rodgers has said multiple times this year that this is a different team. Yes, he’s relying more on the defense. Yes, he’s relying more on Aaron Jones. But again, as great as Jones has been, he’s played 61% of the snaps, and the defense, while really good, is 9th in points allowed. Let’s not act like they are the 2000 ravens or the 2002 Bucs.

Rodgers is making all of the correct checks, audibles, etc at the line of scrimmage. His processing of the information to get from a bad play to a good play or from a good play to a great play is something that is being ignored here. He’s had a few game winning drives. He’s made plays in crunch time when they MATTER. There’s been a couple of games this year in which he’s ran the clock out by managing the situation, and getting timely first downs when needed. Those are things that guys like Dak, Cousins, Tannehill cannot do consistently enough to win 13 games with the roster that Rodgers is doing it with.

The defense has been really good. Aaron Jones has been really good. And while Aaron Rodgers by his standards has been average in terms of stats, he’s brought home a lot of wins with clutch play when it counts. He doesn’t deserve near the percentage of credit he’s gotten in the past, but he deserves a significant portion.

Brady has won so many games over the years and has had so many modest seasons in the past because he isn’t worried about statistics. He’s worried about winning football games. Look at Brady in 2013 for instance. His numbers aren’t much different than Rodgers’ this year at all.

I’m shocked that you think winning 13 games as a quarterback in the NFL is that easy. Lol.

Rodgers QB rating in the 4th quarter when the games within 7 points is a blistering 82.7 completing 59% of his passes. By far his best quarter this year has been the 1st quarter which would work against your argument that it's his clutch moments that are what's elevating the team. The team has jumped on to teams early and held on the rest of the game for the most part.

Also I literally never said that last part so thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.

As far as his processing information at the line and getting from bad plays to good if you felt like sharing a reliable source of information that details how often Rodgers is doing it and the success rates when does I would be more then willing to take that into account. However until then how often he does it and how successful the changes hes made is largely speculation on your part. So until I can be presented anything meaningful on the subject of his pre snap decision I'll make my judgement based on his post snap ones which by league standards has been average.

I'll also add that while you've mention Aaron Jones only having been on the field for 61% of the teams snaps the teams expected points per play are 3rd in the NFL with Jones on the field and 29th when hes replaced by Williams (who has actually been solid this year). Also in terms of who has benefited more from the other Rodgers QBR is a extremely respectable 67.7 with Jones on the field and when he isnt it then plummets to 27.7 (I dont care if you're not a stat guy that's dreadful). In other words when Jones is on the field the both Rodgers and the Offense are either ELITE or borderline elite status depending on your definition. When Jones leaves the field both Rodgers and the Offense become one of the worst in the NFL.

That speaks to one player having the greater impact.

If you want to say Rodgers still deserves significant credit I'd actually be inclined to agree. He is still playing the most important position on the field and even average QB play counts for a lot. How much we can debate though and as such I'd have him pretty firmly behind giving credit to the D and Jones in that regard.

However my original reply was to a poster saying Rodgers deserved pretty much all the credit (or rather at least most)

(also yes I was at work and simply didnt want to make a night response like I knew it was going to be)

 

[PackAttack12]

Rodgers QB rating in the 4th quarter when the games within 7 points is a blistering 82.7 completing 59% of his passes. By far his best quarter this year has been the 1st quarter which would work against your argument that it's his clutch moments that are what's elevating the team. The team has jumped on to teams early and held on the rest of the game for the most part.

Also I literally never said that last part so thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.

As far as his processing information at the line and getting from bad plays to good if you felt like sharing a reliable source of information that details how often Rodgers is doing it and the success rates when does I would be more then willing to take that into account. However until then how often he does it and how successful the changes hes made is largely speculation on your part. So until I can be presented anything meaningful on the subject of his pre snap decision I'll make my judgement based on his post snap ones which by league standards has been average.

I'll also add that while you've mention Aaron Jones only having been on the field for 61% of the teams snaps the teams expected points per play are 3rd in the NFL with Jones on the field and 29th when hes replaced by Williams (who has actually been solid this year). Also in terms of who has benefited more from the other Rodgers QBR is a extremely respectable 67.7 with Jones on the field and when he isnt it then plummets to 27.7 (I dont care if you're not a stat guy that's dreadful). In other words when Jones is on the field the both Rodgers and the Offense are either ELITE or borderline elite status depending on your definition. When Jones leaves the field both Rodgers and the Offense become one of the worst in the NFL.

That speaks to one player having the greater impact.

If you want to say Rodgers still deserves significant credit I'd actually be inclined to agree. He is still playing the most important position on the field and even average QB play counts for a lot. How much we can debate though and as such I'd have him pretty firmly behind giving credit to the D and Jones in that regard.

However my original reply was to a poster saying Rodgers deserved pretty much all the credit (or rather at least most)

(also yes I was at work and simply didnt want to make a night response like I knew it was going to be)

You make some very fair points, however you didn’t rebut any of the points I made about the other quarterbacks and instead doubled down on Rodgers. That’s fine. At the end of the day, my point still remains that you would not take 10 other QBs and get the same results.

A lot of what’s really needed here is to just watch the games more closely.

 

[ColoradoPacker51]

So we play the winner of the Seahawks v. Eagles. I think that is definitely a good thing for us, as both are not the caliber the saints are. We would have the advantage against either opponent.

i also think Minn would have a chance in SF next weekend, and would give us the opportunity to host the NFC championship against the... Vikings! Wouldn’t that be a storyline.

 

[gbgary]

and so we now know it'll be sea or phi coming to Lambeau. potentially a massive break for the Pack.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Looks like Wentz out. Looks like the odds of it being Sea just went up significantly.

 

[PackAttack12]

Looks like Wentz out. Looks like the odds of it being Sea just went up significantly.

In my opinion, I think this works to the benefit of the Packers. Philly presents a lot of issues up front. Nothing about Seattle really scares me that much besides the improv skills of Russ.

I like our chances to control the game much better against Seattle.

 

[Mondio]

In my opinion, I think this works to the benefit of the Packers. Philly presents a lot of issues up front. Nothing about Seattle really scares me that much besides the improv skills of Russ.

I like our chances to control the game much better against Seattle.

I’ll be happy to beat either

 

[PackAttack12]

I’ll be happy to beat either

Part of me just wants to get some form of payback for 2014.

 

[Sky King]

How lousy it might have been to watch Cook and Hill haunt the Packers.

 

[AmishMafia]

Watson did not have a better year than Rodgers, and neither did Garoppolo. Garoppolo just happened to be on a better team.

I thought you can just look at win/loss to really analyze how good a QB is?

 

[Albert Park]

I’ll be happy to beat either

Me too. I just want the season to go on as long as possible, because it's a depressing 7 or so months once it ends.

Really looking forward to the game.