Is Mason Crosby Headed for the Bone Yard?

[Voyageur]

I might be able to figure it out but first let me ask you if you are just interested in comparing drives after a touchback to ones on which the kickoff was returned or specifically to the ones on which the kickoff didn't reach the end zone?

That's a good question. It brings up something I've always felt was a bit deceiving in stats. Kick off returns are listed as the yards a player returns the kick. If he catches the ball 9 yards deep in the end zone, and runs it out to the 20 yard line, it's a 29 yard return. Yet, the ball is not on the 20 yard line, it's on the 20, so the net return is only 20 yards.

That would play into what you're saying. How would you handle it?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's a good question. It brings up something I've always felt was a bit deceiving in stats. Kick off returns are listed as the yards a player returns the kick. If he catches the ball 9 yards deep in the end zone, and runs it out to the 20 yard line, it's a 29 yard return. Yet, the ball is not on the 20 yard line, it's on the 20, so the net return is only 20 yards.

That would play into what you're saying. How would you handle it?

Good stuff. Can you also add hang time on said kick-off and if the kick coverage team is in their correct lanes and if a tackle was missed and if........

Much like a missed FG, the statistical result pretty much gets pinned to the K. Never mind that the snap was a bad one, the hold was bad, the line didn't block, the kick was into a 19mph swirling wind.

I am not trying to make excuses for Crosby, but I am trying to say that there is way more that goes into this than only looking at "he only kicks from X yards per kick in the playoffs" and "the average return against "him" is X yards, "he" missed this many kicks."

 

[TEXPAC2]

Perhaps me needs glasses……

 

[TEXPAC2]

Sorry - Perhaps he needs glasses…..

 

[AGreen2AJones]

Bump missed XP

 

[rmontro]

i hope they play this song at lambeau when love takes the field as the starter next season.

That'll put butts in the seats.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's a good question. It brings up something I've always felt was a bit deceiving in stats. Kick off returns are listed as the yards a player returns the kick. If he catches the ball 9 yards deep in the end zone, and runs it out to the 20 yard line, it's a 29 yard return. Yet, the ball is not on the 20 yard line, it's on the 20, so the net return is only 20 yards.

That would play into what you're saying. How would you handle it?

In my opinion it should be pretty obvious that better field position after a kickoff results in a higher success rate for the offense.

It might be interesting to figure out if kicking the ball short of the end zone results in better or worse field position around the league.

 

[Voyageur]

In my opinion it should be pretty obvious that better field position after a kickoff results in a higher success rate for the offense.

It might be interesting to figure out if kicking the ball short of the end zone results in better or worse field position around the league.

I agree with the shorter the field, the better the chance of scoring. And yes, the field position issue based on the kicks as you indicated would actually create that field position.

That's why I mentioned the kickoffs returned from in the end zone. If taken 9 yards in, and returned 29 yards, the ball is still on the 20, where taking the touch back would give you the ball on the 25, not the 20.

That means that measuring the kick returns the way we do is probably wrong. We should be relating to it from the goal line, not the point in the end zone where the return starts. That way we would be a fair evaluation of what the field position really is.

It's strange that we measure those kicks that way, and yet, get it right on runs from scrimmage and passes. We don't measure the run or the pass from where the ball is handed off, or from where the pass originates. We use the line of scrimmage.

 

[Krabs]

Just for the record, Crosby is under contract for next season. The Packerd could save some much needed cap space by moving on from him though.

There's that record again. I'd like to see this said ledger you are keeping.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With a lot of posters leaning towards this being the final year that Mason Crosby is a Packer, I am going to make a prediction.

If the Packers cut ties with him and he doesn't hang his cleats up, he goes to another team and if it is a decent team, he shines.

Just watching Robbie Gould, at the age of 39 and seeing his confidence, gives me hope that Mason can do the same with a solid special teams unit around him. Crosby may have lost a yard or two in his leg, but I think put into the right situation, the guy can return to being clutch. Gould has had his ups and downs too, but I think the 49'ers are thankful they have him.

 

[swhitset]

With a lot of posters leaning towards this being the final year that Mason Crosby is a Packer, I am going to make a prediction.

If the Packers cut ties with him and he doesn't hang his cleats up, he goes to another team and if it is a decent team, he shines.

Just watching Robbie Gould, at the age of 39 and seeing his confidence, gives me hope that Mason can do the same with a solid special teams unit around him. Crosby may have lost a yard or two in his leg, but I think put into the right situation, the guy can return to being clutch. Gould has had his ups and downs too, but I think the 49'ers are thankful they have him.

I want to agree with that…. but i’m also tired of every kickoff landing short of the goal line. Perhaps if our coverage units could actually cover this would be a good thing …. but since they can’t … it’s a huge liability.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I want to agree with that…. but i’m also tired of every kickoff landing short of the goal line. Perhaps if our coverage units could actually cover this would be a good thing …. but since they can’t … it’s a huge liability.

While Crosby did have some touchbacks this season, I believe they were less than his past average. Maybe Captain knows? As you hint to though, that can fixed by a better coverage team. I notice some kickers in the NFL intentionally kicking the ball short (and probably higher) of the goal line, to force a return. Obviously, given how poorly our coverage unit was, I don't think that was why Crosby was doing it.

Crosby has definitely lost some distance, but I think given the right situation, he will play for less money and be a solid kicker for a team for a few years, if he wants to continue playing.

 

[Half Empty]

Here you go - the second set of stats Crosby

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here you go - the second set of stats Crosby

Thank you.

So his TB percentage of 45.7% was lower than the 6 previous years, its higher than his lifetime of 37.8%.

Yes, I realize that in 2011 that the league moved kickoffs from the previous 30 yard line to the 35 and for 4 straight seasons, his TB% was less than what it was this season and nobody was screaming about his shorter kicks.

 

[Voyageur]

Thank you.

So his TB percentage of 45.7% was lower than the 6 previous years, its higher than his lifetime of 37.8%.

Yes, I realize that in 2011 that the league moved kickoffs from the previous 30 yard line to the 35 and for 4 straight seasons, his TB% was less than what it was this season and nobody was screaming about his shorter kicks.

I get it. The Packers need to replace their long snapper, punter, and kicker. That will take care of most of their problems.

Kind of like they did things in WWI. You know. Send thousands of men charging across no-man's land with bayonets attached, into the teeth of machine gun fire spread to create maximum carnage. After 70-80% of them were killed, and the rest limped back to their own lines, often wounded, the General's Staff would hold a lottery.

They'd draw the names of several common soldiers out of a hat and brand them as "cowards." They'd have these cowards executed in front of firing squads. All with the intent of covering up their stupidity when it came to leadership. They said it was to promote "morale." I say it was BS! It was nothing more than a plan to cover their own posteriors.

Anyhow... I see the similarities.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I get it. The Packers need to replace their long snapper, punter, and kicker. That will take care of most of their problems.

Kind of like they did things in WWI. You know. Send thousands of men charging across no-man's land with bayonets attached, into the teeth of machine gun fire spread to create maximum carnage. After 70-80% of them were killed, and the rest limped back to their own lines, often wounded, the General's Staff would hold a lottery.

They'd draw the names of several common soldiers out of a hat and brand them as "cowards." They'd have these cowards executed in front of firing squads. All with the intent of covering up their stupidity when it came to leadership. They said it was to promote "morale." I say it was BS! It was nothing more than a plan to cover their own posteriors.

Anyhow... I see the similarities.

I don't think that there is any one player that would be "the fall guy" on special teams, that includes Crosby. However, because of that, it seems you have to view the coaching as suspect. I think many of us have known that from day 1 and it became clearer and clear all the way up to Saturday night.

 

[Half Empty]

Certainly understand the rest of the ST have to perform to prevent blocks and runbacks/returns. Otherwise, how is poor performance by the FG or punt units to be blamed on anyone other than those three?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

how is poor performance by the FG or punt units to be blamed on anyone other than those three?

When a kicker or punter do not get the ball a few feet past their foot and their wasn't a problem with the snap or hold, who else do you blame?

 

[Half Empty]

When a kicker or punter do not get the ball a few feet past their foot and their wasn't a problem with the snap or hold, who else do you blame?

Certainly understand the rest of the ST have to perform to prevent blocks and runbacks/returns. Otherwise, how is poor performance by the FG or punt units to be blamed on anyone other than those three?

Probably the rest of the unit, as stated.

 

[Southside]

Lets face it, Crosby's is not getting any younger and neither is his leg. The Packers need to start looking. Are there any good kickers available in the draft?

 

[tynimiller]

Perhaps you do need glasses. Lets face it, Crosby's leg is not getting any younger. The Packers need to start looking. Maybe in the draft? Are there any good kickers available in the draft?

100% - there are two kickers I'd be willing to spend a late pick on without blinking.

Cade York LSU
Gabe Brkic Oklahoma

 

[swhitset]

Thank you.

So his TB percentage of 45.7% was lower than the 6 previous years, its higher than his lifetime of 37.8%.

Yes, I realize that in 2011 that the league moved kickoffs from the previous 30 yard line to the 35 and for 4 straight seasons, his TB% was less than what it was this season and nobody was screaming about his shorter kicks.

I believe it did come up from time to time…. but frankly it was something we could ignore until the kick coverage team decided not to bother.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe it did come up from time to time…. but frankly it was something we could ignore until the kick coverage team decided not to bother.

I actually remember when there was talk about it would be better to force a team to return it and popping the ball up in the process. I think that is the strategy used against the Packers. However, not a strategy I would have suggested the Packers try to use with their poor coverage team. Actually, at one point I texted in a group chat during the game "might as well just kick it out of bounds and give them the ball on the 40." That is how little confidence I had in our coverage.

 

[tynimiller]

I actually remember when there was talk about it would be better to force a team to return it and popping the ball up in the process. I think that is the strategy used against the Packers. However, not a strategy I would have suggested the Packers try to use with their poor coverage team. Actually, at one point I texted in a group chat during the game "might as well just kick it out of bounds and give them the ball on the 40." That is how little confidence I had in our coverage.

Yup our issues on kickoffs was more our coverage team than Crosby...that said I fully expect with the end of the Rodgers era we also see the end of the Crosby era as well.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Last time Mason was ready to be kicked to the curb, he had to compete for his job and did very good,I think its time to bring in another kicker and have him compete again if he can’t cut it, our divisional rivals would be glad to sign him, they want him to do his Robby Gould imitation