Is anyone else sick of seeing the Patriots in the superbowl?

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd take Brady over Rodgers any day and I think Rodgers is a great QB.

Rodgers is a superior quarterback over Brady even if he doesn't have the championships to show for it.

I wonder if Brady could have won a Super Bowl if he were playing under McCarthy. In 2010, I doubt Brady could have made those 2 pinpoint passes in the SB (the 21 yard TD to Jennings, and the 3rd and 10 to Jennings) that Aaron made, so maybe Pittsburgh would have won that one.

I highly doubt Brady would have won a Super Bowl in Green Bay with the talent Thompson has provided over most of his tenure.

Has Rodgers ever thrown a pick 6 in a playoff game, let alone the SB?

Rodgers has only thrown a single pick 6 in his entire career and that was in a 2009 regular season game at Tampa. Brady on the other hand has had 13 interceptions returned for a touchdown since entering the league in 2000.

 

[XPack]

I'd love to see the Packers vs. the Patriots in the SB though. That would be epic, Brady vs. Rodgers.

Yup. It'd be a shame if that doesn't happen. I was hoping it'd be thins year, but maybe next. Fingers crossed.

 

[yooperpackfan]

The Patriots wouldn't have all those Lombardi Trophies if they had Ted Thompson as their General Manager.
I give Belichek and the Patriots kudos for "going for it" every year.
Thompson keeps the Packers stuck in second gear.

 

[grampi]

I wonder if you would feel that way if you were a Patriots fan? Something tells me you wouldn't.

The haters are going to make all kinds of excuses why Brady didn't win the game last night but its all just a way of trying to justify to themselves that he is not the GOAT or at least in the top 2 (and I'm sorry, Rodgers doesn't make the top 5)

Its OK to not like the guy but to try to say he is not an incredible QB just shows your bias. I'd take Brady over Rodgers any day and I think Rodgers is a great QB.

I never said Brady isn't an incredible QB, he absolutely is, I just don't think he's the best ever, and those who do always go back the number of SB rings he has as their argument. Again, the number of SB rings ANY player has is a TEAM accomplishment, not an individual one. I'm not saying Brady's play Sunday wasn't a big part of the reason they came back to win, but please tell me how Brady kept the ATL offense from scoring for the last quarter and half of the game. I believe it was the Pat's D that did that....this was not a Brady win, it was a team win...and if I had a choice of taking the Pats with Brady or with Rodgers, I'd take Rodgers...he possesses a much better skillset than Brady...

 

[grampi]

Be interesting to see your list of criteria and a list of your great QBs. On the one hand, there's always the argument about QBs vs passers, and the Marino situation, but I'm really wondering how other factors enter into one's determination of greatness at the position.

I certainly wouldn't make a team accomplishment (which is exactly what SB wins are) the #1 criteria in determining how great an individual player is. To me a QB's skillset is a much more important factor...Do you think Bilichick or Brady would have had the success they've had if these two were on different teams? I don't think they would have...

 

[grampi]

Because there is a difference between agreeing that Brady is a great QB and thinking he is better than Rodgers. I do not believe for one second that Brady would have 5 rings if he had played anywhere else. I give him credit for being great.... but so was Manning, Montana, Favre, Marino, Unitas, Starr, etc... ad nauseum. If you want to anoint him GOAT because of the rings... fine, but we will never know what he would have accomplished if he played in Green Bay for his instance.... But my opinion... he is not better than Rodgers.

I don't even think he's as good as Rodgers, but his list of accomplishments is longer, however, if Brady and Bilichick hadn't paired up, I don't think the list of accomplishments would even exist...

 

[Sky King]

I'm sick of not seeing the Packers in the Super Bowl. Thanks, TT.

 

[Half Empty]

I certainly wouldn't make a team accomplishment (which is exactly what SB wins are) the #1 criteria in determining how great an individual player is. To me a QB's skillset is a much more important factor...Do you think Bilichick or Brady would have had the success they've had if these two were on different teams? I don't think they would have...

A little closer, but nowhere near and answer to your criteria. You already said wins are the main thing, and now it appears you're talking about physical skills. If so, what are they, and how do we measure them? I originally thought you might be talking about stats, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Do I think breaking up the Belichick/Brady combo would have hurt their production? Absolutely. On general principles, I'd acknowledge that Brady has less physical talent than AR to work with, but he does what he's asked to do with the team and scheme that he's in, so they win. Move AR to the Pats, and, despite the increased ability of his arm and legs, I would in no way guarantee better team production.

So, back to the original question. If wins doesn't do it, and skillset does, what does that mean, who has it, and how do we measure/rank current/previous QBs?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

A little closer, but nowhere near and answer to your criteria. You already said wins are the main thing, and now it appears you're talking about physical skills. If so, what are they, and how do we measure them? I originally thought you might be talking about stats, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Do I think breaking up the Belichick/Brady combo would have hurt their production? Absolutely. On general principles, I'd acknowledge that Brady has less physical talent than AR to work with, but he does what he's asked to do with the team and scheme that he's in, so they win. Move AR to the Pats, and, despite the increased ability of his arm and legs, I would in no way guarantee better team production.

So, back to the original question. If wins doesn't do it, and skillset does, what does that mean, who has it, and how do we measure/rank current/previous QBs?

In my opinion one thing that is remarkable is that Rodgers has a passer rating in playoff losses (87.9) over his career than Brady´s overall one in the postseason (89.0). That makes me believe the Patriots would have won at least won the same amount of Super Bowl with Aaron as their starting QB.

 

[Half Empty]

That, at least, gets a little closer to the other guy's original contention, if what you mean is that passer rating is what determines who is the better QB. As far as your specific example goes (and there's obviously no way of knowing), would AR have been able to 'tone it down', for lack of a better term, to fit into BB's concept? Also, didn't think about it until now, but what are the subsets of those QB ratings, and (for instance) does Brady get his through completion percentage or some such while AR's is from average length? More directly, does each QB have roughly the same rating with the other team? Fun stuff to consider, but my comments were still directed at how the poster determines who is the better QB after he dismissed wins.

 

[grampi]

A little closer, but nowhere near and answer to your criteria. You already said wins are the main thing, and now it appears you're talking about physical skills. If so, what are they, and how do we measure them? I originally thought you might be talking about stats, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Do I think breaking up the Belichick/Brady combo would have hurt their production? Absolutely. On general principles, I'd acknowledge that Brady has less physical talent than AR to work with, but he does what he's asked to do with the team and scheme that he's in, so they win. Move AR to the Pats, and, despite the increased ability of his arm and legs, I would in no way guarantee better team production.

So, back to the original question. If wins doesn't do it, and skillset does, what does that mean, who has it, and how do we measure/rank current/previous QBs?

I don't know if there is a way to measure it other than just watching them play...I know AR can do things Brady can't...

 

[grampi]

That, at least, gets a little closer to the other guy's original contention, if what you mean is that passer rating is what determines who is the better QB. As far as your specific example goes (and there's obviously no way of knowing), would AR have been able to 'tone it down', for lack of a better term, to fit into BB's concept? Also, didn't think about it until now, but what are the subsets of those QB ratings, and (for instance) does Brady get his through completion percentage or some such while AR's is from average length? More directly, does each QB have roughly the same rating with the other team? Fun stuff to consider, but my comments were still directed at how the poster determines who is the better QB after he dismissed wins.

I don't dismiss wins and SBs, I just think they mean less when it comes to ranking an individual player as they are not as directly attributed to an individual's abilities as a player.

 

[grampi]

Take the 3rd and 20 pass play AR made against Dallas which set up the winning FG. Does anyone in this forum believe that Brady could've made that throw? I sure as hell don't...

 

[Half Empty]

I don't know if there is a way to measure it other than just watching them play...I know AR can do things Brady can't...

Dead horse, will leave it alone after this. Have always granted that AR is certainly a better athlete, probably a better passer, too. Does that make him a better QB? The eye test, for some, is watching some AR scrambles and throws - my eye test is watching Brady hoist the trophies.

 

[Half Empty]

Take the 3rd and 20 pass play AR made against Dallas which set up the winning FG. Does anyone in this forum believe that Brady could've made that throw? I sure as hell don't...

I have no idea, but let's grant that he couldn't, making AR the better thrower. Next question - would Brady have been in the situation where he had to make the throw? No way of knowing, but I hope you see my point.

 

[grampi]

Dead horse, will leave it alone after this. Have always granted that AR is certainly a better athlete, probably a better passer, too. Does that make him a better QB?

Yes, I think it does...again (in keeping with the dead horse beat down), hoisting the Lombardi trophy is a TEAM accomplishment, not an individual one...

 

[grampi]

I have no idea, but let's grant that he couldn't, making AR the better thrower. Next question - would Brady have been in the situation where he had to make the throw? No way of knowing, but I hope you see my point.

I have seen Brady fail many times in similar situations...

 

[Forderick]

I have seen Brady fail many times in similar situations...

Define many?

 

[Half Empty]

Not sure if this horse is still alive, but my knee-jerk reaction would to first ask what 'similar situations' means (down and distance, time on the clock, importance of the game, other?), then (depending on the answer) ask for examples of Brady's failures, then offer instances where AR hasn't made the throw, either.

Since the last post from someone who isn't you or me is #34, I'll assume this horse is kaput, too, unless someone else wants to chime in.

 

[Mondio]

Define many?

I love Brady, in my life he's easily top 3 and I'm not really going to argue against him being the best ever, but just taking the last game into account. He threw at least 3-4 balls that "should have" sealed the Patriots fate.

I know his 400 yards sound impressive, but this game was won on their pass rush and White.

 

[grampi]

Define many?

More than one...I don't know, I don't have a photographic memory...

 

[grampi]

Not sure if this horse is still alive, but my knee-jerk reaction would to first ask what 'similar situations' means (down and distance, time on the clock, importance of the game, other?), then (depending on the answer) ask for examples of Brady's failures, then offer instances where AR hasn't made the throw, either.

Since the last post from someone who isn't you or me is #34, I'll assume this horse is kaput, too, unless someone else wants to chime in.

What you're asking for would require going back through game films to obtain...it would be impossible for me (or anyone for that matter) to recall specific things like this from memory...all I know is he obviously hasn't made it to every SB, so he has had failures along the way, and I'm certain he hasn't made plays in those situations that Rodgers could've, and probably would've made...

 

[grampi]

I love Brady, in my life he's easily top 3 and I'm not really going to argue against him being the best ever, but just taking the last game into account. He threw at least 3-4 balls that "should have" sealed the Patriots fate.

I know his 400 yards sound impressive, but this game was won on their pass rush and White.

You'll never get that impression by listening to all of the Brady fans....to listen to them you'd think he won this game all by himself...

 

[Half Empty]

What you're asking for would require going back through game films to obtain...it would be impossible for me (or anyone for that matter) to recall specific things like this from memory...all I know is he obviously hasn't made it to every SB, so he has had failures along the way, and I'm certain he hasn't made plays in those situations that Rodgers could've, and probably would've made...

Fortunately, Mondio kept thing alive long enough for me to look at this post and realize you're now just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Contending that

I have seen Brady fail many times in similar situations...

and then posting the reply above makes me exit the thread, just shaking my head. Will be happy to pick this apart in PM, if you want to continue.

 

[grampi]

Fortunately, Mondio kept thing alive long enough for me to look at this post and realize you're now just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. Contending that
and then posting the reply above makes me exit the thread, just shaking my head. Will be happy to pick this apart in PM, if you want to continue.

No need...you obviously have your mind made up and are asking for things you know no one can provide from memory...