Is Aaron Rodgers the best Packer QB of all time ?

[AlabamaPackerCracker]

I miss read the column

It happens. I wasn't trying to be a jerk FWIW, I just couldn't tell if you misread or if you were being sarcastic

 

[Quientus]

There's more to Bart Starr's career than just championships. He was a leader among men. He was a strategist from behind center. He knew how to adapt, improvise and overcome. Yes, he was MVP of the league once as well. Folks don't remember he was tough, willing to take a hit. He made it a point to be in sync with his receivers and his timing was incredible. He was stubborn as heck too when it came to situations people thought he couldn't handle. He was a great part of why the Packers were so successful in those years and Coach Lombardi recognized it.

A lot of guys on this forum, though, may be to young to remember legends like Starr and Unitas. Some of them may be too young to remember the machine that was Montana. So to those folks, Unitas, Starr, Montana, couldn't possibly be as good as today's QBs. They are just "legends to be read about". Honestly, I can understand that.

But for those of us who watched Starr and tried to imitate him in the back yard, he was pure magic. I remember the long semi-heated debates between my friends about who was better, Starr or Unitas. I don't think we ever resolved it.

I agree, but Starr played in a whole other era ... Rodgers has ONLY played in the passing-is-all era ... Just look across the board of QBs today ... Both Star and Favre were leaders of men - something Rodgers will never be ...

Looking at just Championships, Starr would be number 1. Career wise Favre still tops Rodgers imo and probably always will ...

 

[longtimefan]

So those mad

I agree, but Starr played in a whole other era ... Rodgers has ONLY played in the passing-is-all era ... Just look across the board of QBs today ... Both Star and Favre were leaders of men - something Rodgers will never be ...

Looking at just Championships, Starr would be number 1. Career wise Favre still tops Rodgers imo and probably always will ...

Wouldn't Rodgers saying, we are running the table be leadership?

 

[Quientus]

So those mad

Wouldn't Rodgers saying, we are running the table be leadership?

Starr and Favre were/are "born leaders" imo ... something Rodgers will never be ...

Can Rodgers be a Leader ? Ofcourse, but probably never never a Great Leader like both Starr and Favre were on their teams... something Rodgers has "proven" time and again ...

I'm not saying Rodgers isn't a good QB, quite on the contrary, however, when you look at Rodgers and compare him to his peers, Rodgers doesnt stand out as much as both Starr and Favre did among their peers ...

And to those who say Rodgers hasn't had as good teams as Favre had ... well obviously you haven't been following up on recent years ...

 

[AlabamaPackerCracker]

I agree, but Starr played in a whole other era ... Rodgers has ONLY played in the passing-is-all era ... Just look across the board of QBs today ... Both Star and Favre were leaders of men - something Rodgers will never be ...

Looking at just Championships, Starr would be number 1. Career wise Favre still tops Rodgers imo and probably always will ...

Starr yes, but I have no choice but to laugh out loud at the notion of Favre being in that same league in terms of leadership. He was not a great leader. And fwiw I still really like Brett Favre

 

[longtimefan]

Starr and Favre were/are "born leaders" imo ... something Rodgers will never be ...

Can Rodgers be a Leader ? Ofcourse, but probably never never a Great Leader like both Starr and Favre were on their teams... something Rodgers has "proven" time and again ...

I'm not saying Rodgers isn't a good QB, quite on the contrary, however, when you look at Rodgers and compare him to his peers, Rodgers doesnt stand out as much as both Starr and Favre did among their peers ...

And to those who say Rodgers hasn't had as good teams as Favre had ... well obviously you haven't been following up on recent years ...

I need real proof of your assessment of leadership..

I seen Jennings say it, but he is spoiled and hurt.. Can't trust it..

Finley? Driver?

What other reasons why isn't he a leader?

Playing with pain?

 

[Quientus]

Starr yes, but I have no choice but to laugh out loud at the notion of Favre being in that same league in terms of leadership. He was not a great leader. And fwiw I still really like Brett Favre

You are entitled to your opinion But saying Favre wasn't a Great Leader tells me you didn't see many games from 1993-2007?

 

[Quientus]

I need real proof of your assessment of leadership..

I seen Jennings say it, but he is spoiled and hurt.. Can't trust it..

Finley? Driver?

What other reasons why isn't he a leader?

Playing with pain?

Still playing "Devils Advocate" I see

First of all A true Leader don't throw their teammates publically "under the bus"

Second, Great leaders don't stand and pout when things dont play out like planned

Third, Great leaders make those around him play better - something imo We have seldom seen on the Packers teams post Favre ... When push comes to shove Rodgers doesnt seem to be able to animate and ignite his teammates the same Way Starr and Favre could ...

in the end its difficult to quantify leadership (as you very well know LT )

 

[AlabamaPackerCracker]

You are entitled to your opinion But saying Favre wasn't a Great Leader tells me you didn't see many games from 1993-2007?

No I saw a lot. It's a big reason why he is still one of my all time favorites. There's a Favre specific thread here so I won't go too far down this road but there were a lot of moments on and off the field where he acted like he was bigger than the organization, particularly towards the end. He really became an anti leader his last few years in Green Bay.

This is an argument none of us can quantify, so I'm not going to sit here and try and compare intangibles and subjective leadership traits between the 3 Packer QBs. But if you really think he's in the same class as Starr as far as being a leader on and off the field then we just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

[Quientus]

No I saw a lot. It's a big reason why he is still one of my all time favorites. There's a Favre specific thread here so I won't go too far down this road but there were a lot of moments on and off the field where he acted like he was bigger than the organization, particularly towards the end. He really became an anti leader his last few years in Green Bay.

This is an argument none of us can quantify, so I'm not going to sit here and try and compare intangibles and subjective leadership traits between the 3 Packer QBs. But if you really think he's in the same class as Starr as far as being a leader on and off the field then we just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that

Oh I agree with the off field issues especially towards the end of his tenure in GB, however his last season here Kinda proves my point though - and I was generally talking about their on the field leadership, just to clarify ...

 

[longtimefan]

Still playing "Devils Advocate" I see

First of all A true Leader don't throw their teammates publically "under the bus"

Second, Great leaders don't stand and pout when things dont play out like planned

Third, Great leaders make those around him play better - something imo We have seldom seen on the Packers teams post Favre ... When push comes to shove Rodgers doesnt seem to be able to animate and ignite his teammates the same Way Starr and Favre could ...

in the end its difficult to quantify leadership (as you very well know LT )

Where are the quotes of throwing under the bus? I can show quotes him blaming himself..

Jennings was really good but went to other teams and sucked.. Wouldn't that make him better with Rodgers?

Are Brady and Peyton good leaders? They pout as well

 

[Mondio]

S
First of all A true Leader don't throw their teammates publically "under the bus"

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2005-05-03-favre-walker_x.htm

"I would've never thought it would be a guy like Javon," Favre said. "I guess in this business nothing should surprise you, especially what happens when guys have a little bit of success. Some guys handle it the right way and some guys don't."

...he's going about it the wrong way. What happened to honoring your contract and saying, 'Let's work as a team to see if we can get this done?' Why not go about it that way?

"I sure hope the Packers don't give in to him,"

Like that?

 

[El Guapo]

I don't always understand the fervor surrounding fans' quests to determine "the best." Rodgers is one of the best that we've had. There are too many variables to isolate one as the grand daddy. Has he won more championships than Starr? No. Does he have better stats than Favre and Starr? Yes. All different eras.

I prefer to take the presidential approach at least, and not assess greatness until long after their career has ended and you can look through the lens of time.

 

[AlabamaPackerCracker]

Oh I agree with the off field issues especially towards the end of his tenure in GB, however his last season here Kinda proves my point though - and I was generally talking about their on the field leadership, just to clarify ...

I get where you're coming from. I think for me I have a difficult time separating the on the field vs. off the field thing. I don't think you can isolate the two. How you carry yourself off the field and the example you set I think matters in this overall leadership discussion. I don't think we can throw out off the field stuff and just analyze things the minute he steps on the field and leave it as an absolute.

However, even in terms of on the field I just never got that "great" leadership vibe from him. His teammates all seemed to like him on the field and that matters for something, but at the end of the day he still seemed to try and make the moment about him.

Perfect example was his NFC championship game in Minnesota. At the end his team was on the edge of field goal range. He could have scrambled for a couple of yards to allow his team to kick a winning field goal, instead he makes a wild throw across his body that gets picked. Those types of things could be endearing at one time, but as time went on I think it just kinda summed up how he was, about making the moment more about himself than his team.

But that's just my read on him, you're entitled to your own opinion. There's a whole thread on just Brett Favre so I won't derail this one anymore. But if you want to talk Favre some more we can go there

 

[Mondio]

I don't always understand the fervor surrounding fans' quests to determine "the best." Rodgers is one of the best that we've had. There are too many variables to isolate one as the grand daddy. Has he won more championships than Starr? No. Does he have better stats than Favre and Starr? Yes. All different eras.

I prefer to take the presidential approach at least, and not assess greatness until long after their career has ended and you can look through the lens of time.

I agree. The games, the requirements, the defenses, the offenses, the rules everything are so different between these 3. I don't know Starr as a player. I remember him far more as a coach and all i know from him as a player are the legends. When I bumped into him as he stood in a hallway outside the atrium at Lambeau field I felt like I was a 10 year old kid seeing a man that was larger than life standing in front of me anyway. I saw all of Favre and all of Rodgers. Neither is perfect, I'd take both on my team any day of the week and over most every other QB to ever play the game at any time.

You don't do what they've done by not being a leader. Don't even know why it's being debated.

 

[Quientus]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/packers/2005-05-03-favre-walker_x.htmo







Like that?

First, If you are going to quote an interview atleast relay it entirely and not just some snips ...

Second, That wasn't exactly throwing Javon under the proverbial bus, but I think you know that ... and are just arguing for the sake of arguing ...

 

[Mondio]

First, If you are going to quote an interview atleast relay it entirely and not just some snips ...

Second, That wasn't exactly throwing Javon under the proverbial bus, but I think you know that ... and are just arguing for the sake of arguing ...

oh, ok. Publicly telling a guy he is wrong in one of the largest publications for public consumption in the country, and telling everyone not on this team that one particular man is hurting the team isn't publicly throwing a guy under the "proverbial bus". It's just leadership, LOL

Leadership would have been going to meet Walker in person and not uttering a word to the USA today or anyone else about another man's business decision.

 

[Quientus]

Where are the quotes of throwing under the bus? I can show quotes him blaming himself..

Jennings was really good but went to other teams and sucked.. Wouldn't that make him better with Rodgers?

Are Brady and Peyton good leaders? They pout as well

Rodgers leadership qualities have been debated in the media on more than a few occassions ... including comments after some of his (Rodgers') post game pressers ...

Both Brady and Peyton I would rate as better leaders than Rodgers at this point ... Again I'm not saying Rodgers wont be able to lead, however, just that he will probably never be a Great Leader ...

 

[PackAttack12]

Starr and Favre were/are "born leaders" imo ... something Rodgers will never be ...

Can Rodgers be a Leader ? Ofcourse, but probably never never a Great Leader like both Starr and Favre were on their teams... something Rodgers has "proven" time and again ...

I'm not saying Rodgers isn't a good QB, quite on the contrary, however, when you look at Rodgers and compare him to his peers, Rodgers doesnt stand out as much as both Starr and Favre did among their peers ...

And to those who say Rodgers hasn't had as good teams as Favre had ... well obviously you haven't been following up on recent years ...

In my opinion, the knocks on Aaron's leadership are baseless.

 

[PackAttack12]

Rodgers leadership qualities have been debated in the media on more than a few occassions ... including comments after some of his (Rodgers') post game pressers ...

Both Brady and Peyton I would rate as better leaders than Rodgers at this point ... Again I'm not saying Rodgers wont be able to lead, however, just that he will probably never be a Great Leader ...

So assuming that your analysis of the situation is correct, do you think this has had an adverse effect on Rodgers' game and/or the success of the Green Bay Packers? Because if it's not hurting the team, I really don't see what the problem is.

Again, all of the pressers I have heard from Rodgers, he has never failed to absolve himself from taking blame. He always says that he needs to play better, that it starts with him, etc. Even when reporters asked him over the 4 game losing streak what's going on with the defense, or how can you expect to win a game when your defense is giving up 40+ points, he quickly said that the offense needs to jump out to leads earlier in the game to alleviate the pressure off of the defense. He said it starts with him, and that things would trickle from there.

You can say what you wish about Rodgers' leadership ability. But the fact that he said I think we can run the table, and the entire team has rallied behind that comment and actually backed it up on the field says all that I need to know about A. his leadership ability and B. what guys think of him in that locker room.

 

[red4tribe]

To me, Starr, Favre and Rodgers are all about equal right now. Starr has the titles, while Rodgers and Favre have better regular season statistics. They offset each other in my mind, especially since it was far, far easier to win championships in the 60s, with a nascent and limited playoff system and only 14 teams in the NFL.

 

[El Guapo]

IMO - the flak that goes Rodgers way for his apparent lack of leadership IMO is more a reflection on his somewhat dry or wry demeanor. He isn't the happy-go-lucky Favre and not the lovable Starr. I don't think that necessarily reflects on his leadership on the field and in the locker room.

 

[longtimefan]

Rodgers leadership qualities have been debated in the media on more than a few occassions ... including comments after some of his (Rodgers') post game pressers ...

Both Brady and Peyton I would rate as better leaders than Rodgers at this point ... Again I'm not saying Rodgers wont be able to lead, however, just that he will probably never be a Great Leader ...

So it's mostly opinion?

 

[Quientus]

So assuming that your analysis of the situation is correct, do you think this has had an adverse effect on Rodgers' game and/or the success of the Green Bay Packers? Because if it's not hurting the team, I really don't see what the problem is.

Again, all of the pressers I have heard from Rodgers, he has never failed to absolve himself from taking blame. He always says that he needs to play better, that it starts with him, etc. Even when reporters asked him over the 4 game losing streak what's going on with the defense, or how can you expect to win a game when your defense is giving up 40+ points, he quickly said that the offense needs to jump out to leads earlier in the game to alleviate the pressure off of the defense. He said it starts with him, and that things would trickle from there.

You can say what you wish about Rodgers' leadership ability. But the fact that he said I think we can run the table, and the entire team has rallied behind that comment and actually backed it up on the field says all that I need to know about A. his leadership ability and B. what guys think of him in that locker room.

So from that I understand that you believe that when things go wrong (like during the 4-6 streak) that was just poor coaching ? And when the Pack wins its just because of Rodgers (suddenly Great ?) leadership ?

Rodgers has talen (cheap) shots at his team(mates) during pressers more than once just this past season ...

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

So it's mostly opinion?

Isn`t everything ?