IF the NFL Cancels 2020 Season - What would it look like?

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

60000 people die from the flu each year but you don’t see anything closing down then do we. We need to open the country back up. People on lockdown are already losing their lives to pre existing medical conditions they already had like Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease and Heart Attacks. Oh we can’t forget this is causing people to kill themselves. Nobody mentions that now do they. We need to quit hiding behind locked doors and get back to living again. Nobody wants to live like this. I sure don’t. If anyone is scared then stay home but let everyone else live their lives. I am so sick of this social distancing crap. I don’t want anyone else to get sick or die obviously but we need to stop living in fear. We didn’t live in fear when the flu was going around a thousand times before. Also it’s the virus itself that kills people not the person that gets it but doesn’t know it then spreads it to everyone else. I mean they don’t know it. Also more people are murdered everyday in big cities then the virus has killed. I think being on lockdown isn’t going to stop this virus. It’s going to spread no matter what.

I genuinely had to read this twice to see if my eyesight and my sanity had failed me. SMH in disbelief !

 

[Arodgers12]

Lots of more people die from many other things. We don’t shut down for those situations. I feel terrible about all of those who have lost their lives but we have to live our lives to the end. The people who passed away wouldn’t want to live on lockdown either.

 

[thisisnate]

Want to expand on our medical care infrastructure more for us please? I have mentions of it throughout the 2 threads. I don't seem to see anybody paying particularly close attention, but as this moves on, it's becoming painfully obvious just serious this is, and its not because of covid cases.

Can you expound on what it means for the state of medical infrastructure going foward? We haven't even begun to touch the surface of the long term payment plan from this short term decision. Think it's going to be better for much of America in terms of medical care? Or worse when all these places go belly up? Care to envision a future where 20% of the GDP collapses on itself? Just print more money?

Lets not act like there aren't going to huge ramifications from shutting down.

Not really. I'm not qualified to begin to suggest how our medical care systems will ultimately respond and grow from this. I would hope at the very least that our leadership from the top down would be more receptive and responsive to imminent threats and that our emergency supply stockpiles would be stewarded more responsibly. Beyond that, I don't think most people will be seeing any differences. Hospitals and other care facilities are not going to start operating at increased capacity just in case of some weird stochastic event like this. And a health insurance overhaul... not too optimistic about that.

I don't think anybody is pretending like there won't be very real and very long-term impacts of this pandemic. That is and was going to be the case regardless of how we handled it. It was always going to be a big deal in one direction or another.

"Printing more money" isn't a concern that I personally have. Our federal gov't is clearly very willing and able to operate at extreme deficits. Economic recessions happen. Routinely. This does not scare me. What scares me is the thought of ignoring a pandemic because it's become tiresome to deal with and just accepting that "business as usual" will be a death sentence to many people.All that being said, I am hopeful that this was more a concern of two weeks ago. I'm cautiously optimistic that we've plateaued, but who knows really...

 

[Arodgers12]

I genuinely had to read this twice to see if my eyesight and my sanity had failed me. SMH in disbelief !

I genuinely had to read this twice to see if my eyesight and my sanity had failed me. SMH in disbelief !

Ok stay home if you are scared. We will continue to live our lives. While people have to risk their health to deliver you the stuff you need. That’s being selfish too.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I want to attend the races again, Outdoor Concerts with friends. I want to Kayak, hiking and get together in large gatherings again. If you and Poker want to live like a prisoner then go for it but I Don’t plan too. I know of plenty of elderly that I’ve talked to who feel the same way I do. Nobody wants to live like this. A virus is something we can’t control and we must go on and live our lives. I remember zillions of times people getting together with colds or Flu viruses in the past. That’s no different than this. Many die from the flu every year. I’m already angry enough how many things my family and I enjoy are cancelled because of this Damn virus. My theory is we should have been on lockdown in the past for the flu then.

Nobody likes this. You're concerned with concents and kayaking while some meaningful percentage of the 20 million people thrown out of work don't have enough to eat.

28,000 new U.S. cases were identified yesterday with 2,100 deaths under stay-at-home restrictions. You do the run rate math. Both the cases and deaths are undercounted. Testing has been woefully inadequate as the federal goverment sits on their hands. Imagine what they would be, and will be in some places where restrictions have been lifted prematurely. One guy comes down with it in a meat packing plant and the next thing you know 600 co-workers have it.

This ain't the flu. That's a debunked Trump/Fox talking point from March.

Do what you want. Just wear a mask and keep your distance from others so you don't give it to then.

 

[Mondio]

Not really. I'm not qualified to begin to suggest how our medical care systems will ultimately respond and grow from this. I would hope at the very least that our leadership from the top down would be more receptive and responsive to imminent threats and that our emergency supply stockpiles would be stewarded more responsibly. Beyond that, I don't think most people will be seeing any differences. Hospitals and other care facilities are not going to start operating at increased capacity just in case of some weird stochastic event like this. And a health insurance overhaul... not too optimistic about that.

I don't think anybody is pretending like there won't be very real and very long-term impacts of this pandemic. That is and was going to be the case regardless of how we handled it. It was always going to be a big deal in one direction or another.

"Printing more money" isn't a concern that I personally have. Our federal gov't is clearly very willing and able to operate at extreme deficits. Economic recessions happen. Routinely. This does not scare me. What scares me is the thought of ignoring a pandemic because it's become tiresome to deal with and just accepting that "business as usual" will be a death sentence to many people.All that being said, I am hopeful that this was more a concern of two weeks ago. I'm cautiously optimistic that we've plateaued, but who knows really...

I don't think you have a good grasp on this. There are groups in larger cities that were operating on 1.5 billion dollars less than last year with 1 Billion in lost revenue already in the first 4 months of this year. Think they're growing or in trouble? That's 1 hospital group in 1 city. 1 in 4 of our own rural hospitals and their urgent care and local clinics splattered across much of our state were in dire financial straights BEFORE this happened. I can tell you there are more than that now in big big trouble, and some that have cut so much staff they couldn't operate if they had to unless they come back to work for free. You have no idea how much we're hurting right now and it's not because we're packed with Covid patients. Do the people of WI benefit when Madison, MKE or Fox cities/GB, maybe Gunderson in LaX stays viable are their options? without massive, massive relief, there isn't going to be growth until after there is death.

Recession? the mortgage stuff 10 years ago was a recession, what do you think 20% of GDP spending on the brink will do? not even going to count the credit, housing and unemployment crisis that will follow should that happen.

 

[Mondio]

Nobody likes this. You're concerned with concents and kayaking while some meaningful percentage of the 20 million people thrown out of work don't have enough to eat.

28,000 new U.S. cases were identified yesterday with 2,100 deaths under stay-at-home restrictions. You do the run rate math. Both the cases and deaths are undercounted. Testing has been woefully inadequate as the federal goverment sits on their hands. Imagine what they would be, and will be in some places where restrictions have been lifted prematurely. One guy comes down with it in a meat packing plant and the next thing you know 600 co-workers have it.

This ain't the flu. That's a debunked Trump/Fox talking point from March.

Do what you want. Just wear a mask and keep your distance from others so you don't give it to then.

testing is still a joke. back to 4-5 day freaking waits. 19 swab kits for an entire week in some places serving tens of thousands. complete joke

and BTW, so are masks.

 

[HardRightEdge]

testing is still a joke. back to 4-5 day freaking waits. 19 swab kits for an entire week in some places serving tens of thousands. complete joke

and BTW, so are masks.

Trumps refusal to invoke the War Powers Act except at the margins has exacerbated the problem with respect to testing. "I am not responsible," he said. Well, truer words were never spoken. If one takes responsibility then one opens himself up to blame. That's what you get from a guy whose Job #1 is to get reelected with Job #2 a distant second.

It's been established that a mask, the ones available at retail anyway, do not protect the wearer. But if an infected mask wearer coughs into it then it will go some ways in keeping the virus particals from flying through the air where, some studies suggest, it can hang for hours.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Ok stay home if you are scared. We will continue to live our lives. While people have to risk their health to deliver you the stuff you need. That’s being selfish too.

To use an English colloquialism "********". There is a difference between essential work. and going out to concerts, resturants and the like.

 

[Mondio]

some viral particles may remain, infectious? very debatable, even among the professionals

It may stop water droplets and "suspended" viral contaminants, but then those also build up in something still moist and warm from breath. and the next cough or sneeze pushes them all out, because they do not filter the virus itself. Well maybe, it might surprise people know we still have not isolated this particular virus and looked at it. we don't know how big it is LOL but it is estimated to be within other viral sizes at .12 microns or smaller likely. what can penetrate even surgical masks? anything smaller than .2 microns.

The masks people are making? It's making it more difficult to breathe, raising heart rates and decreasing arterial O2 concentrations is probably it. and giving a false sense of security and causing them to touch their face 20 more times an hour than without. But they aren't stopping anything, coming or going.

Wear them if you want or not, but we should at least be honest about them.

 

[AKCheese]

I’m not a doctor, I don’t even play one on TV but, I would guess the masks (home made or store bought) are not expected to protect against the individual .12 micron virus particle wafting in the breeze. It’s more to protect against expelling or getting hit with much much larger spit particles. We can do things smarter and better but until we get viable treatment options AND an effective vaccine this is going to continue to impact us severely. Comparing this to the flu is ignorant. You can’t fix people who revel in their ignorance. People who yap about it being unconstitutional that they’re required to wear a mask? Exercise your constitutional right to stay out of places they’re required. Is that so hard to figure out?

 

[HardRightEdge]

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That's amusing but fails to grasp the implications. These virus deniers, who likely overlap meaningfully with anti-vaxers on a Venn diagram, abdicate social responsibility, right along with their Facilitator-in-Chief.

Forget "let them eat cake". It's "let them drink bleach" which, believe it or not, is a thing with the anti-vaxers, a purported "cure" for autism. So, slap on this badge, take a slug of Clorox, and you're good to go.

 

[Mondio]

I’m not a doctor, I don’t even play one on TV but, I would guess the masks (home made or store bought) are not expected to protect against the individual .12 micron virus particle wafting in the breeze. It’s more to protect against expelling or getting hit with much much larger spit particles. We can do things smarter and better but until we get viable treatment options AND an effective vaccine this is going to continue to impact us severely. Comparing this to the flu is ignorant. You can’t fix people who revel in their ignorance. People who yap about it being unconstitutional that they’re required to wear a mask? Exercise your constitutional right to stay out of places they’re required. Is that so hard to figure out?

why do you think something that can't stop a particle from coming in because it is too porous, by magnitudes of 100's or 1000's will stop that same particle from going in the other direction?

 

[HardRightEdge]

why do you think something that can't stop a particle from coming in because it is too porous, by magnitudes of 100's or 1000's will stop that same particle from going in the other direction?

Because the medical experts tell you so. It's the same reason why, under ordinary circumstance, you cover your mouth when you cough. Any virus particles that are not expelled into the air is a plus.

It is known with some viruses that the "dosage" of particles correlates to severity of symptoms. That is not yet known with this one, but the simple act of wearing a mask is a sensible and hardly onerous precaution.

Trump went balistic yesterday when his bag man, aka "valet", came down with the virus. Many White House staffers have not been wearing masks. They will be now in this "it's all about me" leadership regime.

 

[Mondio]

Because the medical experts tell you so. It's the same reason why, under ordinary circumstance, you cover your mouth when you cough. Any virus particles that are not expelled into the air are a plus.

It is known with some viruses that the "dosage" of particles correlates to severity of symptoms. That is not yet known with this one, but the simple act of wearing a mask is a sensible precaution.

Trump went balistic yesterday when his bag man, aka "valet", came down with the virus. Many White House staffers were not wearing masks. They will be now in this "it's all about me" leadership regime.

armed with the same data to make a statement 4 months ago, what were the "experts" telling you? LOL and they don't "tell me" things. Wearing a mask is "sensible" among a giant population that doesn't know any better. And leave trump out of it, he's an idiot, something I realized as a young punk in the late 80's already.

It has ALWAYS been recognized, among experts, I'd know, that masking benefits just a couple very controlled situations and that's it. Nothing has come forward to change that, in fact recent very small studies since are showing just how pointless it is. and i'm inclined to believe these extremely small studies as they confirm everything in my background and everything we've known before. It makes sense. What doesn't make sense is what is being suggested now.

 

[rmontro]

Both the cases and deaths are undercounted.

There are also those who claim the deaths are over-reported as well, including many doctors. Some say over-reported, some say under-reported. The only information we have is what we're told.

it is estimated to be within other viral sizes at .12 microns or smaller likely. what can penetrate even surgical masks? anything smaller than .2 microns.

I do question how effective these masks are at preventing the spread. If we're really practicing social distancing, and not freely coughing or sneezing in public, I'm not sure they really make that much of a difference. Originally the CDC said not to wear them, because as you said they tend to make people touch their face more often, and give a false sense of security. Plus they wanted to keep the professional grade masks for health care workers. Most places will just accept it if you put a bandana or scarf over your face.

Comparing this to the flu is ignorant.

It's worse than the flu, but it really all comes down to the percentages. As a society, we seem to be saying we will accept a certain amount of death, but if that number increases to a different level, we won't accept it. A certain number of people who get the flu will die, something like 37,000 every year in the US. No one even suggests shutting down to save those people. The numbers for Covid are obviously higher, but we don't really know what the numbers would be without mitigation. The projections haven't proven to be very accurate.

 

[Mondio]

It's worse than the flu, but it really all comes down to the percentages. As a society, we seem to be saying we will accept a certain amount of death, but if that number increases to a different level, we won't accept it. A certain number of people who get the flu will die, something like 37,000 every year in the US. No one even suggests shutting down to save those people. The numbers for Covid are obviously higher, but we don't really know what the numbers would be without mitigation. The projections haven't proven to be very accurate.

brought it up in a different thread, but we were packed in the '17/18 flu season in WI. almost 8K people needed ICU care that year. Same strains as the year before that was pretty dang mild. I think only a couple hundred were ICU maybe 1K, go figure that out. we're at over 1K needing ICU in WI this year for respiratory illness, of which this is still considered despite the reports of blood and other mechanisms of damage to the body. I know they'd be higher without the drastic shutdown.

I can give you some of the variables updated from today

9,215 know cases in WI
1732 Covid needing medical care of any sort of that, 435 were covid+ needing ICU care.
5477 have never needed any care at any level
there is incomplete data on 2,036 cases

5% of cases are ICU cases. right now we have 4% of positive cases dying at 374

there are 5.8 million people in WI and we have terrible testing outside of a very biased population statewide so numbers are very skewed right now. Maybe, maybe not. How do we know without the data?

What I can see, if you do get bad? ICU's aren't doing much to save anyone.

 

[HardRightEdge]

why do you think something that can't stop a particle from coming in because it is too porous, by magnitudes of 100's or 1000's will stop that same particle from going in the other direction?

I have no idea why you think this is funny, Mondio. Maybe its because

armed with the same data to make a statement 4 months ago, what were the "experts" telling you? LOL and they don't "tell me" things. Wearing a mask is "sensible" among a giant population that doesn't know any better. And leave trump out of it, he's an idiot, something I realized as a young punk in the late 80's already.

It has ALWAYS been recognized, among experts, I'd know, that masking benefits just a couple very controlled situations and that's it. Nothing has come forward to change that, in fact recent very small studies since are showing just how pointless it is. and i'm inclined to believe these extremely small studies as they confirm everything in my background and everything we've known before. It makes sense. What doesn't make sense is what is being suggested now.

Well, Trumps own experts were warning him of the coming tide and he ignored them including, of all people, Navarro, a self-styled China expert. It's pretty clear that the White House medical experts you see on TV along with the CDC have been politicised. Every time Fauci contradicts Trump he is back benched and disappears from public view. It's the same story over and over again. Subject matter experts working for this man have two choices. Stay on the down low or get fired. The ones who hang around and slow-play do so because of the fear of the know-nothing sycophant campaign contributor who might replace him. That's usually reserved for ambassadors to Muldavia.

I am disinclined to believe any small studies because they are in essence anecdotal which makes them worthless.

Maybe you think this is funny because Brown County has experienced only 1,706 cases and 12 deaths to day. Well, if you started playing football games today with 80,000 people cheek-to-jowl with the airport humming with flights in and out from parts unknown, you would not be laughing anymore.

 

[HardRightEdge]

A certain number of people who get the flu will die, something like 37,000 every year in the US. No one even suggests shutting down to save those people. The numbers for Covid are obviously higher, but we don't really know what the numbers would be without mitigation. The projections haven't proven to be very accurate.

2,100 Corona deaths were reported yesterday. This after weeks of shut-downs and social distancing protocols. That's about an 800,000 annual run rate. What might it be if one snapped their figures and everything went back to normal?

 

[Mondio]

I have no idea why you think this is funny, Mondio. Maybe its because

Well, Trumps own experts were warning him of the coming tide and he ignored them including, of all people, Navarro, a self-styled China expert. It's pretty clear that the White House medical experts you see on TV along with the CDC have been politicised. Every time Fauci contradicts Trump he is back benched and disappears from public view. It's the same story over and over again. Subject matter experts working for this man have two choices. Stay on the down low or get fired. The ones who hang around and slow-play do so because of the fear of the know-nothing sycophant campaign contributor who might replace him. That's usually reserved for ambassadors to Muldavia.

I am disinclined to believe any small studies because they are in essence anecdotal which makes them worthless.

Maybe you think this is funny because Brown County has experienced only 1,706 cases and 12 deaths to day. Well, if you started playing football games today with 80,000 people cheek-to-jowl with the airport humming with flights in and out from parts unknown, you would not be laughing anymore.

because YOUR same medical experts 4 months ago had the same stance they've always had concerning masking and it is directly opposite of what the "experts" are saying today with the same data we've always had.

The small ones done recently only back up what we've always know about viruses and masking. They are small, but they aren't what i'm making my decisions on. I only commented on them because it's the only new data really since a month ago or 4 years ago and the change in masking advice from the CDC.

and there is a lot of the "stay on the down low" or get fired going around. You should hear what is said amongst the professionals, none of which will be said publicly for reasons you're obviously well aware of. But none of us work for trump.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Originally the CDC said not to wear them, because as you said they tend to make people touch their face more often, and give a false sense of security. Plus they wanted to keep the professional grade masks for health care workers. Most places will just accept it if you put a bandana or scarf over your face. The projections haven't proven to be very accurate.

The CDC's initial guidance was that masks or scarves don't prevent you from contracting the virus. That's still true. Being a politicised organization, they would not have wanted to recommend wearing one so as not to cause panic. Now, any little thing helps. A bandana may be just as good as a mask, depending what kind you have. I've got a 3-ply washable cotton one which is actually hard to breath through unlike the Packer bandana I started with. I'm pretty sure this mask would stop more particles from spewing with a cough. How much that matters is TBD, but again, its not exactly an onerous precaution.

 

[HardRightEdge]

because YOUR same medical experts 4 months ago had the same stance they've always had concerning masking and it is directly opposite of what the "experts" are saying today with the same data we've always had.

The small ones done recently only back up what we've always know about viruses and masking. They are small, but they aren't what i'm making my decisions on. I only commented on them because it's the only new data really since a month ago or 4 years ago and the change in masking advice from the CDC.

and there is a lot of the "stay on the down low" or get fired going around. You should hear what is said amongst the professionals, none of which will be said publicly for reasons you're obviously well aware of. But none of us work for trump.

There seems to be a fair dose of Fox News in your information, the same guys who were backing the Trumpion, "it's just like the flue" nonsense.

 

[Mondio]

There seems to be a fair dose of Fox News in your information, the same guys who were backing the Trumpion, "it's just like the flue" nonsense.

You have no clue. If you need to believe that about me, feel free lol

 

[Jim Lite]

Forget "let them eat cake". It's "let them drink bleach" which, believe it or not, is a thing with the anti-vaxers, a purported "cure" for autism. So, slap on this badge, take a slug of Clorox, and you're good to go.

I didn't believe it, til I Googled it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/intern...autism-cures-private-facebook-groups-n1007871

 

[HardRightEdge]

Here's a practical bit of advice I've not heard uttered, just my own logical conclusion.

Prior to the news being wall-to-wall virus, one of the cultural undercurrents was the robotization of work. What are corporate finance offices and risk managers thinking about that today? With the world ever smaller and denser, this probably isn't the last we'll see of epidemics and pandemics in the foreseeable future. Risk to productive capability from the human worker is surely now elevated. Once this passes and things resume to a new normalcy, or abnormalcy as it were, expect robitization extending high and low, from information workers to burger flippers, to accelerate.

Consider your place in this scenario and start thinking about how you will respond.