I’ll keep saying it.

[Jerellh528]

Trade for AJ Green and play him in the slot where he fared really well of late.

Then MVS gets knocked down the totem pole a bit to wr3 which is probably where he should be at this point in his career. I don’t think he’s ready to handle wr2 duties on a contender, and Geronimo is jag.

Sure woulda been nice to draft Hollywood.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If you want a good weapon from Miami, target Albert Wilson.

Wilson has been out with calf and hip injuries. Not sure how severe either are.

Where is Kumerow at anyways?

Bad shoulder.

The Packers are expected to sign free agent WR Keon Hatcher to their practice squad. He spent time last season on the Packers’ practice squad before the Raiders signed him to their 53-man roster.

Hatcher doesn't seem like a guy they will be counting on anytime soon. I would still like to see the Packers go after a decent WR and/or Will ILB/S. If Gute is out shopping to fill the one roster spot currently open, I hope it addresses one of those 2 needs and it isn't just a PS type of guy.

 

[gbgary]

I’m curious why they’ve backed off with T. Davis playing more snaps at WR. He seemed to be making a stride there in preseason and going into the regular season.
I thought he’d finally get a chance to prove himself. I’m assuming it’s because we are trying to get Geronimo back involved, but having Davante, MVS and Davis out there provides some deep threat potential also.

i think he'd just topped out, had no upside left, and was still buried on the depth chart.

 

[Dantés]

Wilson has been out with calf and hip injuries. Not sure how severe either are.

Bad shoulder.

The Packers are expected to sign free agent WR Keon Hatcher to their practice squad. He spent time last season on the Packers’ practice squad before the Raiders signed him to their 53-man roster.

Hatcher doesn't seem like a guy they will be counting on anytime soon. I would still like to see the Packers go after a decent WR and/or Will ILB/S. If Gute is out shopping to fill the one roster spot currently open, I hope it addresses one of those 2 needs and it isn't just a PS type of guy.

With Burks and Campbell expected back at some point, I doubt they try to acquire a dime linebacker type.

I don't know how severe his ankle injury is, but Greene might also be a candidate to return.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With Burks and Campbell expected back at some point, I doubt they try to acquire a dime linebacker type.

I don't know how severe his ankle injury is, but Greene might also be a candidate to return.

I'm not so sure any of those 3 guys are the long term answer at the position, so I would be fine if they found a better option via a trade now. I still haven't figured out how people are giving Burks so much love. He really didn't look all that good playing the position his rookie year, he was basically handed the starting job in camp due to nobody being better on paper. But yes, sounds like he should be back relatively soon and I guess we will get another chance to see if he has stepped up his game.

 

[Dantés]

I'm not so sure any of those 3 guys are the long term answer at the position, so I would be fine if they found a better option via a trade now. I still haven't figured out how people are giving Burks so much love. He really didn't look all that good playing the position his rookie year, he was basically handed the starting job in camp due to nobody being better on paper. But yes, sounds like he should be back relatively soon and I guess we will get another chance to see if he has stepped up his game.

He's an athletically talented 3rd rounder in his second year who basically everyone who covers the draft said would need some time to develop because he was asked to switch positions frequently for Vandy. People want to see him in his presumed role before a decision is made to spent more valuable capital on replacing him. What's not to get?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He's an athletically talented 3rd rounder in his second year who basically everyone who covers the draft said would need some time to develop because he was asked to switch positions frequently for Vandy. People want to see him in his presumed role before a decision is made to spent more valuable capital on replacing him. What's not to get?

What is not to get? The fact that the position has been in a state of flux and a weak spot for a long time now. Now you are wanting to wait on a guy that is developing and this is his presumed best position?

I get the fact that the Packers want to see what Burks can do, but so far he has done very little or has been unavailable to show what he can do. This is a starting position and an important one at that. So far Burks backups have shown very little, with the exception of maybe Greene sliding into the role before he got hurt. Goodson was suppose to be the answer, mainly on running downs and so far he doesn't look like the solution either.

Just because Burks was a 3rd round pick in 2018, I don't think you simply wait and say "when he is healthy, he has the starting job until he proves us wrong." This is when you sign a guy for the rest of the year and let Burks keep learning and actually prove that he is worthy of the starting job in 2020.

Maybe I saw way too much of this sh*t with TT and the ILB position being treated as a second thought, so forgive me for being a bit skeptical on waiting on Burks.

 

[Mondio]

They have Martinez and spent 3rd rounder on Burkes. They aren’t ignoring it. Considering the the needs across OL, DL OLB, safety and DB we’ve had in the past 2 seasons, I’d say the least critical out of all of those would be ILB by a lot.

They obviously like Burkes and aren’t ready to give up on their evaluation or investment of him. It’s not like when he got hurt we didn’t have a plan in place. It also happened at a time when the pickings were well past slim.

 

[Dantés]

What is not to get? The fact that the position has been in a state of flux and a weak spot for a long time now. Now you are wanting to wait on a guy that is developing and this is his presumed best position?

I get the fact that the Packers want to see what Burks can do, but so far he has done very little or has been unavailable to show what he can do. This is a starting position and an important one at that. So far Burks backups have shown very little, with the exception of maybe Greene sliding into the role before he got hurt. Goodson was suppose to be the answer, mainly on running downs and so far he doesn't look like the solution either.

Just because Burks was a 3rd round pick in 2018, I don't think you simply wait and say "when he is healthy, he has the starting job until he proves us wrong." This is when you sign a guy for the rest of the year and let Burks keep learning and actually prove that he is worthy of the starting job in 2020.

Maybe I saw way too much of this sh*t with TT and the ILB position being treated as a second thought, so forgive me for being a bit skeptical on waiting on Burks.

Goodson and Burks do not play the same role on the team. They aren't supposed to be answers to the same question. They address different situations, depending on the personnel of the offense.

It makes no sense whatsoever to invest a relatively high pick in a guy who you know needs a year to develop-- that was always part of the deal and then spend more high capital on replacing that guy before you've even seen him in the role. That's an incoherent team building strategy.

This is far from the same thing as just assuming that Burks is great and will lock it down. It's merely a call to give your draft pick a chance before you decide that he can't do it.

And this is not a TT thing. Of course, he was more draft dependent than most other GM's, but every team in the league will draft developmental talent.

 

[RRyder]

He's an athletically talented 3rd rounder in his second year who basically everyone who covers the draft said would need some time to develop because he was asked to switch positions frequently for Vandy. People want to see him in his presumed role before a decision is made to spent more valuable capital on replacing him. What's not to get?

Basically everyone that covered the draft also said he was a huge reach where we drafted him also so I'm not sure of your point in bringing up his draft position

Yes he was/is a project. However there is a ton of unwarranted optimism

 

[Dantés]

1. basically everyone that covered the draft also said he was a huge reach where we drafted him also so I'm not sure if your point

Yes he was/is a project. 2. However there is a ton of unwarranted optimism

1. I didn't know if you were right or wrong, because I don't really pay attention to draft grades. So I googled "2018 NFL draft grades." In the six results I found, there was only one outlet that even gently suggested that Burks was a "reach." So I'm calling BS on that.

NFL: "Moving up for Burks cost them a fourth-rounder, but he adds athleticism, strength, versatility and intelligence. He'll be a good starter for them at a spot they desperately needed to upgrade."

SI: "It was wise of Green Bay to use its third-round pick on an athletic linebacker like Oren Burks. He can replace the departed Joe Thomas in dime packages (something Pettine, with his fondness for DB blitzes, employs often)."

BR: "Oren Burks also brings long-term versatility to the linebacker unit alongside Blake Martinez."

YAHOO: No mention of Burks

SN: "Burks should find a starting position right away for Mike Pettine in the Demario Davis mold."

SB: "In the third round, the Packers added a versatile and athletic linebacker in Oren Burks. He has to become more disciplined against the run, but his athleticism can’t be coached. Not many people expected Burks to go that high, though."

2. This is true of virtually every single pick of every team in every draft. Fan bases are always optimistic about draft picks, warranted or not. But that isn't a reason to replace a guy who you haven't seen yet.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think we can certainly make a case for him coming on over. Adams injury also means we do need some depth at the position, if he's not ready to play that means Keke comes in and only Fadol Brown is on standby. I've already mentioned I'm lukewarm on him. Practice Squad addition I'd hope for Taco.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

I liked Taco his last year at Michigan I think he'd be a nice addition

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It’s not like when he got hurt we didn’t have a plan in place

What plan was that? An UDFA and a 7th rounder? I realize that there are other ways to cover the ILB position with Safeties, but as far as a pure Will ILB, Burks is about as close as we had to one starting the preseason and even he was totally unproven.


I understand what both you and Dantes are saying, he needs time to develop and that there are other ways to cover the Will position, but I am imaging just how good this defense could be with 2 solid ILB's. Martinez is decent, but not great enough to cover up for what else we have put in there next to him.

Again, this part of Mondio's post is exactly the philosophy that we saw through TT and I just don't agree with and the more I read it, the more it just sounds like an excuse. How much cap space do we still have?

Considering the the needs across OL, DL OLB, safety and DB we’ve had in the past 2 seasons, I’d say the least critical out of all of those would be ILB by a lot.

Why is it least critical when your defense has notoriously been at the bottom of the league at stopping runs and passes in the middle of the field? Did you see the Cook run up the middle for 75 yards on Sunday? TT, MM and Capers tried to roll for years with just Hawk and whoever next to him and it usually wasn't very successful.

 

[XPack]

• Benched multiple times because of attitude issues

• Couldnt beat out a 6th round rookie

• Coaches complained he was lazy and didnt seem to care much

• Abrasive towards teammates

Any links for these? He wasn't getting playing time and so it was a mutual decision is what I get from the saga. He had some team interaction issues but those were resolved quickly. I don't get anything significant.

 

[Dantés]

What plan was that? An UDFA and a 7th rounder? I realize that there are other ways to cover the ILB position with Safeties, but as far as a pure Will ILB, Burks is about as close as we had to one starting the preseason and even he was totally unproven.


I understand what both you and Dantes are saying, he needs time to develop and that there are other ways to cover the Will position, but I am imaging just how good this defense could be with 2 solid ILB's. Martinez is decent, but not great enough to cover up for what else we have put in there next to him.

Again, this part of Mondio's post is exactly the philosophy that we saw through TT and I just don't agree with and the more I read it, the more it just sounds like an excuse. How much cap space do we still have?



Why is it least critical when your defense has notoriously been at the bottom of the league at stopping runs and passes in the middle of the field? TT, MM and Capers tried to roll for years with just Hawk and whoever next to him and it usually wasn't very successful.

It's rare to find linebackers who have Burks' movement skills. So I think their plan was that the depth behind him would be Greene, Campbell, and Jones. Jones decided he didn't want to play for this team, Campbell ended up on the PUP, and Greene just went down injured. That's all along with Burks' pectoral injury.

I don't think using safeties as Burks' backup plan is an emergency contingency-- I think it was the plan. I can't prove it, but it matches how Pettine has coached defense in the past. He loves to live in dime personnel.

So my point is that I don't envision them going out and trading for another linebacker when plan A (Burks) is supposed to be back at some point, and at least one of the backup options (Campbell) will be back and the Plan B (Greene) could be as well. At most, I could see a modest piece acquired for a late round pick to tide them over.

If Burks plays this year and proves inadequate, then you find a real solution in the offseason, and maybe transition back to Greene if he can come back late in the year.

 

[greengold]

I think Ty Summers has the athleticism. Clearly he does with the only "ELITE" rating besides Gary from our last draft. Personally, I've been thinking they are grooming him to take over for Blake if his contract demands become too high for Gutekunst to match. He's a stellar athlete, one who was taught to play ILB by one of the best Defensive minds in NCAA Football, Gary Patterson. So many NFL teams reach out to him for advice. Ty was a QB when Patterson recited him, offering a full scholarship if he would come into TCU as a LB, and told him he would teach him how to play the position. Summers' athleticism made him able to cover for injury losses on their DL, and he did so without any hesitation, which caused a dip in his ILB stats at draft time. Super smart, solid player.

Ty Summers will become the guy. I'm pretty sure of it. Just a hunch, with Martinez in a big contract year, but, one of those hunches that one bets on. And, I'm not a betting man. I just think that is where this might be going with regards to Blake Martinez. I could easily be wrong, but, both Burks and Summers are super athletic, and I could easily see them paired together, should Burks recover to prove his worth. Burks was a highly rated player at ILB in his draft class. Especially in coverage, which I believe Dantes was referring to in terms of differing skill sets. Former Safety.

 

[Mondio]

I'd answer, but Dantes pretty much took care of it. But just to highlight. Guys that have the size and the ability to run like that are rare, very rare. holes at other positions required more resources as they are more important positions. Very much rather have Savage at safety than any guy they could have drafted at ILB.

And greene showed he could be an option last year and so far this year was doing well. That run by Cooks was M. Adams getting blown up and a LB'er signed a week prior and being inserted because we lost our starter not reacting well. He'll get better I think.

But Greene and Campbell are likely the plan, and it's not a unique one either. Many teams are leaning that way these days. well Greene was, but he's done too. But he was doing well, and now we're 3 deep into the position. How many do you think we can get?

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

AAANNNDDDD HE'S GONE!!!!

Miami just claimed him off waivers. Which means Gute wasn't interested, because we're 12th and the Dolphins are 13th in the order. Oh well.

 

[Dantés]

I think Ty Summers has the athleticism. Clearly he does with the only "ELITE" rating besides Gary from our last draft. Personally, I've been thinking they are grooming him to take over for Blake if his contract demands become too high for Gutekunst to match. He's a stellar athlete, one who was taught to play ILB by one of the best Defensive minds in NCAA Football, Gary Patterson. So many NFL teams reach out to him for advice. Ty was a QB when Patterson recited him, offering a full scholarship if he would come into TCU as a LB, and told him he would teach him how to play the position. Summers' athleticism made him able to cover for injury losses on their DL, and he did so without any hesitation, which caused a dip in his ILB stats at draft time. Super smart, solid player.

Ty Summers will become the guy. I'm pretty sure of it. Just a hunch, with Martinez in a big contract year, but, one of those hunches that one bets on. And, I'm not a betting man. I just think that is where this might be going with regards to Blake Martinez. I could easily be wrong, but, both Burks and Summers are super athletic, and I could easily see them paired together, should Burks recover to prove his worth. Burks was a highly rated player at ILB in his draft class. Especially in coverage, which I believe Dantes was referring to in terms of differing skill sets. Former Safety.

Ty Summers often left the field on passing downs for TCU. I have a hard time envisioning a guy who didn't play in coverage in college being a cover linebacker in the NFL.

 

[greengold]

I really think we are fine there. Thought Goodson getting so many snaps last week was a mistake, not knowing his surrounding personnel nor the scheme, but, they threw him into the fire, and we saw what happened on that 75 yd. run. Goodson's strength is run stuffing too, and they ought to have held him back for a while IMO.

All Summers did was lead every single ILB in tackles during the preseason. He had one really poor outing v. BAL, but recovered nicely. He's a heady player, and there is no way I'd give up on him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Any links for these? He wasn't getting playing time and so it was a mutual decision is what I get from the saga. He had some team interaction issues but those were resolved quickly. I don't get anything significant.

Google is full of things and not saying that to be flippant, but there are quite a few takes on it. The most common being that he was "soft" and didn't get along with defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli, was upset that he wasn't seeing playing time. Recently, he put on social media that he wanted out of Dallas. Basically Josh Jones 2.0 with probably a poor work ethic to boot. Dallas needed a roster spot to reactivate Robert Quinn after his 2 game suspension, couldn't find anyone hungry enough to trade for a Taco and thus released him.

 

[greengold]

Ty Summers often left the field on passing downs for TCU. I have a hard time envisioning a guy who didn't play in coverage in college being a cover linebacker in the NFL.

He held Kareem Butler to his lowest receptions totals on the year last season with 2 receptions for something like 14 yds, covering the slot. The guy can cover just fine. That perception is more of a prognosticator blurb that went wild IMO. Yes, he messed up some coverages during preseason, but, this is a whole new game at the NFL level. I do think he will square that stuff up. I really do. He's got the tools.

Had more INTs than both Devin Bush and Devin White, and about equal the PDs, splitting time at DL no less... plus, he's a tackling machine. I thought he was a draft steal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just give me Roquan Smith and I will **** and leave you two alone.

 

[GleefulGary]

He held Kareem Butler to his lowest receptions totals on the year last season with 2 receptions for something like 14 yds, covering the slot. The guy can cover just fine. That perception is more of a prognosticator blurb that went wild IMO. Yes, he messed up some coverages during preseason, but, this is a whole new game at the NFL level. I do think he will square that stuff up. I really do. He's got the tools.

Had more INTs than both Devin Bush and Devin White, and about equal the PDs, splitting time at DL no less... plus, he's a tackling machine. I thought he was a draft steal.

Gary Patterson, whom you spoke so glowingly of, took him off the field on a lot of passing downs. You can't have it both ways man.