Gutes thought process...

Sunshinepacker

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Out of a list of realistic HC options, who would replace MM and get Rodgers a Super Bowl? We are .5 games back in the division, to be speaking about missing playoffs in Week 3 is overreaction Monday at its finest.

Look at any of the offensive coordinators that have been working under Peterson, Reid, etc. The guys that are running innovative, modern offenses. Or, better yet, hire someone like James Bettcher (DC for Cardinals in 2015-2017 and DC for Giants this year) and then hire someone like Dan Campbell (TE's coach under Sean Payton) as OC. Get a defensive guy as the head coach and hire a guy that might not have the experience to be head coach as OC.

And yes, I'm not up on all the various guys that are out there so I just googled 'head coach candidates NFL' for those names.
 

Mondio

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KC starts out like 6-0 every year and then never get heard from again. Wake me up when the finally do something. If they're still performing like this in December I'll pay attention. Until then, it's an old story
 

pizzle

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I believe that had Gute had his way? MM would’ve been out the door after last season eneded....and the ONLY reason MM is even still here is because Rodgers got hurt. I don’t think the guy wants the team to suck in any way...but I do think he wants to build the roster a lot different than what TT has previously done...as well as bring in an entirely new younger coaching staff. As I’ve stated before, if the Packers miss the playoffs MM will be gone..if they make the playoffs?? and get embarrassed he will be gone.


My sentiments in a nutshell on Gute's outlook-not tanking, but waiting to shift course if need be...
 
D

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The more interesting "what if" in the offseason is how things would have shaken out if the Bears had not matched the Packers tender on Kyle Fuller with his $6.5 mil 2018 cap number, jumping to $13.5 mil in 2019. A current player with big ticket cap savings would have been released, whether that would have been Cobb or Matthews or Bulaga, and the draft would have looked quite different with either Alexander or Jackson (probably Jackson) swapped out, likely for a top pick replacement for that big ticket player that was released. We'll never know for sure how that would have shaken out exactly, but it would have been quite different.

While I liked Gutekunst signing Fuller to an pffer sheet at that point I'm glad the Bears ended up matching it and the Packers ending up with Alexander and Jackson.

Is it really? How many SBs has MM been to again? Oh yea, the same amount as Jeff Fisher carry on

How many Super Bowls has Fisher won??? Zero. Carry on.
 

Mondio

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I believe that had Gute had his way? MM would’ve been out the door after last season eneded....and the ONLY reason MM is even still here is because Rodgers got hurt. I don’t think the guy wants the team to suck in any way...but I do think he wants to build the roster a lot different than what TT has previously done...as well as bring in an entirely new younger coaching staff. As I’ve stated before, if the Packers miss the playoffs MM will be gone..if they make the playoffs?? and get embarrassed he will be gone.
Then if Gute wants a new regime, the a new regime he shall start regardless of how things go. If he doesn't have enough confidence in his decision to just make it, then he's not the guy that should be in charge. If he can't make a decision and own it, what good is he? No decision as a GM should be, well see, he sucks I need to find a replacement. It should be, this is what will take us to the top, it's the right thing and the backlash will quiet when everyone sees the payoff. You know, like ditching a future HOF QB that brought us a super bowl, for another unknown type decisions. OWN IT. quit looking for the decision to be made for you. It's not becoming of a real NFL GM.

and for those that think it's so different, I'd caution you to wait 6-7 years and see if he's still around. What you're seeing is a team that was in need of some change on the roster and staff. Not that unlike the last guy that took over and it required a lot of moves be made. when you can really judge, is when Gute has built his team and staff, and has sustained success and signed new contracts and locked up core players, then see how different it is at that point. You're judging a start compared to a finish of a life cycle in the NFL. We've had a longer life cycle than most. Cap, age and injuries get 'em all eventually.

and just for clarification, I don't think Gute is gutless at all, just making the point that hoping this team struggles so he can make a change would be. and it would be a sign he's not the man for the job
 

James from IL

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Yeah, I was happy the Gute was going out and trying to get players such at Fuller this off season, I am happy it fell through though. I've never really liked Fuller's talent all that much, and he drops too many INTs for my liking!
 

Mondio

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Yeah, I was happy the Gute was going out and trying to get players such at Fuller this off season, I am happy it fell through though. I've never really liked Fuller's talent all that much, and he drops too many INTs for my liking!
what are you talking about, I love his ability to drop INT's :)
 
D

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Yeah, I was happy the Gute was going out and trying to get players such at Fuller this off season, I am happy it fell through though. I've never really liked Fuller's talent all that much, and he drops too many INTs for my liking!

Fuller definitely drops too many interceptions but other than that he has been pretty good in coverage over his career.
 

PackerDNA

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I don't think he's done. I think he's still looking for help at Dline/front seven, OLB, possibly Online. Bet he,s in on Thomas,too.
 
D

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I don't think he's done. I think he's still looking for help at Dline/front seven, OLB, possibly Online. Bet he,s in on Thomas,too.

In my opinion the defensive line doesn't need any improvement even with Wilkerson out for the season.
 
OP
OP
rodell330

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Then if Gute wants a new regime, the a new regime he shall start regardless of how things go. If he doesn't have enough confidence in his decision to just make it, then he's not the guy that should be in charge. If he can't make a decision and own it, what good is he? No decision as a GM should be, well see, he sucks I need to find a replacement. It should be, this is what will take us to the top, it's the right thing and the backlash will quiet when everyone sees the payoff. You know, like ditching a future HOF QB that brought us a super bowl, for another unknown type decisions. OWN IT. quit looking for the decision to be made for you. It's not becoming of a real NFL GM.

and for those that think it's so different, I'd caution you to wait 6-7 years and see if he's still around. What you're seeing is a team that was in need of some change on the roster and staff. Not that unlike the last guy that took over and it required a lot of moves be made. when you can really judge, is when Gute has built his team and staff, and has sustained success and signed new contracts and locked up core players, then see how different it is at that point. You're judging a start compared to a finish of a life cycle in the NFL. We've had a longer life cycle than most. Cap, age and injuries get 'em all eventually.

and just for clarification, I don't think Gute is gutless at all, just making the point that hoping this team struggles so he can make a change would be. and it would be a sign he's not the man for the job

Who said he wanted the team to struggle so he can make change? Because I surely didn’t say anything like that...in fact I disagreed to the same sentiments.
 

Mondio

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But you bring up missing the playoffs or getting blown out in the playoffs to precipitate this change you say he wants to make. I say, if he wants to make the change, make it. period. If he needs them to miss the playoffs or get blown out to make a change he already wants to make, he's not the guy to do it.
 
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rodell330

rodell330

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While I liked Gutekunst signing Fuller to an pffer sheet at that point I'm glad the Bears ended up matching it and the Packers ending up with Alexander and Jackson.



How many Super Bowls has Fisher won??? Zero. Carry on.

Ok let’s make a list of available coaching candidates and potential available coaching candidates that could replace MM...and do either the same?? or just as good as Him shall we?

Jim Harbaugh
Mike Smith
Bill O’brien
Jim Caldwell
Jeff Fisher

I’m sure there will be more but I’d take Harbaugh or Jim Caldwell. Then again this team probably needs a defensive minded head coach for once. NOT Pettine tho!!!!!
 

PackAttack12

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Is it really? How many SBs has MM been to again? Oh yea, the same amount as Jeff Fisher carry on
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Should we look at NFC Championship game appearances? Playoff appearances? Hmmmm....how about this one....Super bowl victories? You talking about the same Jeff Fisher who didn't make the playoffs in his last 7 seasons as a head coach? Or is it the same Jeff Fisher who hasn't won a playoff game since 2003? Or hell, who knows, maybe you're talking about the same Jeff Fisher that's only had a record above .500 in 2 of his past 12 seasons.

Wait wait wait....I know which one you're talking about....I've got it!

It's the same Jeff Fisher who has had 6 (!!!) winning seasons in 21 years as a head coach.

Stop it. If you're gonna come at me you better come with something better than Jeff Fisher's dusty ***.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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sometimes don't you wonder how long they've been sitting on that stool to come up with this stuff?

I think many of us are not privy as to where this group hangs out daily!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!
 
H

HardRightEdge

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While I liked Gutekunst signing Fuller to an pffer sheet at that point I'm glad the Bears ended up matching it and the Packers ending up with Alexander and Jackson.
I'm on board with that. Getting that second 1st. rounder in the bargain was especially slick. I came at this from the standpoint that roster building to a legitimate Super Bowl contender was not going to be a one year project. I've not seen anything to change my mind, Rodgers' knee or otherwise. With Fuller, at least you would have a second contract shut down guy for the long haul, bad hands or not.

The point to which you responded was to intended to observe that had that offer sheet been landed then the draft and subsequent FA signings would have pivoted significantly with a ripple affect particularly in light of Fuller's $13.5 mil cap number in 2019 which would have driven the current 2019 top 51 cap number (assuming the other moves made since) to over $160 mil before re-signing or replacing any of these players:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/green-bay-packers/

While some moves are narrowly confined, such as Nelson out, Graham in, and Allison promoted, with cap allocation to the receiver group somewhat lower than in 2017 post-Adams extension, it seems every name brand FA that comes down the pike gets some interest here as a move taken in isolation when in fact one major move can set up a ripple affect under cap considerations. Fuller would have been one of those signings.

At the extreme, and as noted before, signing Mack to a contract on par with what he got from the Bears, the current 2019 top 51 cap committments would have jumped to over $170 mil, more than $10 mil over the 2017 cap number right now, with something like Mack's $22 mil cap number with the Bears, while not counting any of the cost to resign or replace those 2019 FAs in the above link.

That situation would have been compounded by the trade terms, essentially two first round picks (or more depending on Oakland's view of CHI vs. GB vs. NO 2018 winning prospects) in exchange for a 2020 2nd. rounder.

After we add it all up, Mack would have crunched the 2019 cap to intolerable levels in leaving little cap flexibility while foregoing the top 2 picks to replace a couple of those FAs while leaving a whole bunch of holes.

In light of these facts, there's no way Gutekunst's interest in this trade was more than preliminary to guage the possible cost. The ripple affect would have been prohibitive. The media echo chamber exaggerated Packer interest, perhaps based on "leaks" of Packer "seriousness" from Oakland or Mack's agent to drive up the price. The math is too compelling to believe otherwise.
 
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HardRightEdge

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As for the OP, what is Gutekunst's modus operandi?

Whether he landed Fuller or not to that second contract, he's been trying to negotiate a middle ground once we're past the idea that Mack was ever a serious consideration once the asking price was known.

From the stanpoint of legitimate Super Bowl contention, not just vying for a Division title or a wild card spot, he found himself in a tough spot.

Thompson left him with a pretty thin collection of players on cheap rookie contracts and no excess of cap space to manuever. Nelson out, Graham and Allison in, is a working proposition given cap constraints. If Allison remains on track that's a move for the future with Graham a move for the now and next season.

Signing Fuller would have been a cap constraing move especially for 2019, but it would have met the highest priority need for the now with a young player who projects well into the future with Williams on borrowed time and King's durability suspect. Failing that Fuller signing, the draft pivoted to that CB need for now and the future. The fact Breeland is a 5th. year player and not some grizzled vet may say something as well regarding the balance of the now with the future. The contract terms will tell us more.

The moderatly priced FA signings for the now are hard to argue with in trying to fill enough holes to stay playoff competitive.

Gutekunst deserves a pretty high grade so far given what he was handed. Whether by nature or organizational impulse, he's not been waiting around for those "second year jumps" that turned into "third year jumps", or even a "4th year jump" with a guy like Perry, as was Thompson's preference and which did not sufficiently pay out. It's a falacy to think you don't know what you have in a draft class until year 3. It's is incredibly hard to stack sufficient cheap talent on rookie deals if you're only working with primarily 2 jumped or jumping draft classes. And the upper round performance from the recent Thompson drafts have simply been a low a low yield proposition.

The only defense for Thompson's performance in recent years is injuries to key players, Nelson and Shields in particular. But that's a fact of the game, and other successful teams have overcome like injuries, FA departures and retirements.

Gutekunst is doing a good job under difficult circumstances plowing the middle ground.
 
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