Gute looking for 'bigger guys' to play a prominent role at slot WR

[InGuteWeTrust]

I found Gute's comments and feelings this week on slot WR's very interesting:

"The ability to kind of seperate and create space(is important) Obviously inside there, you have to be able to hold up and take the pounding that comes with that job. So there's probably a body type moving forward that's able to seperate and stay healthy"

Gute also said: "Bigger guys" generally stay more healthy and hold up better against the constant punishment required of playing slot receiver. And he said that the slot WR would likely play a more prominent role in LaFleur's offense.

These comments are very good news for players like Jake Kumerow and EQ. I would also think the chances of players such as Hollywood Brown or Penny Hart being drafted by the Packers decrease considerably.

I see these comments by Gute as very much a positive thing. He has shown/proven he likes bigger WR's in general(which I do as well), but I think part of his feelings on slots stems from seeing the smaller Randall Cobb being oft injured.

I don't think bigger necessarily means just taller, but again I think smaller somewhat frail players like Brown and Hart are long shots to be drafted by the Pack.

 

[pizzle]

I've noticed in mocks floating around guys like Deebo Samuel/Isabella/Hart being picked by us (especially since Hart was linked to us at the Sr. Bowl) and I personally would love to see Hollywood Brown in a Packer uniform. But the numbers don't add up to that. Gute drafted three big WRs last year and let Cobb walk for a reason. I think it's one of the positions where him being a TT disciple stands out. He evaluates it from that perspective of size/speed combo. It wouldn't make sense to draft a wiggle slot guy in Gute's eyes since we already have a sturdy #1 who just got paid, a tall slender #2 on a contract year, another big one who flashed last yr in preseason ball but got hurt as a probable backup, and a bunch of young ones within the first 6 placeholders. There really is no room for a guy like the aforementioned draft prospects to develop/get the snaps with Aaron to become something without giving up on the guys we just got. Plus it's no secret that Rodgers isn't exactly the best type of QB for young WRs to gel with anyway; with us implementing a new offense avoiding snags that come with lack of familiarity between receiver and quarterback this off-season as much as possible would be best.

I see us needing a Ty 2.0 as a third-down back behind Jones and Williams, therefore RB/WR/KR Tony Pollard as our 7th round pick is ideal for us. He is the shiftier, quicker, thick enough body type that makes sense to draft. He's got alot of experience in the backfield as well as playing in the slot. We won't be drafting a guy to exclusively play the slot due to all the really tall guys we have on the roster already.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

We don't have any smallish slot wrs... Got to go with what you have....
I like it...

 

[Fat Dogs]

I see us needing a Ty 2.0 as a third-down back behind Jones and Williams, therefore RB/WR/KR Tony Pollard as our 7th round pick is ideal for us. He is the shiftier, quicker, thick enough body type that makes sense to draft. He's got alot of experience in the backfield as well as playing in the slot. We won't be drafting a guy to exclusively play the slot due to all the really tall guys we have on the roster already.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what we need. Dion Lewis had 59 catches in LaFleurs O last season. Their leading receiver Corey Davis had 65. Having a (James White) type in the backfield would illeviate the need for a small/quick slot.

 

[pizzle]

We don't have any smallish slot wrs... Got to go with what you have....
I like it...

I wouldn't call Cobb-or Deebo Samuel/any man 5'10" or above small-but since it's the athletic realm we're discussing I won't nitpick. Unfortunately we describe average human height/weight in terms of athletics small but whatever.


But yeah, we have a bunch of tall wideouts. Gute wants it that way and I see us going with what we have, which means I would be shocked if we draft a true WR in this draft. I hope for Noah Fant in the 1st and Tony Pollard in the 7th as pass catchers-one a "jumbo" WR and the other a "hybrid" WR.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

I do still think Gute will draft at least one WR in this draft and it very well could be a outside WR eventhough it would seem the bigger "need" is in the slot. For instance, imagine D.K. Metcalf lining up on the outside opposite Davante. I would be lying if I said that thought doesn't intrigue me.

Gute's recent comments just reinforce my thoughts that even if Gute draft's a WR he envisions playing in the slot, it will NOT be a player that most view as the typical body type for a slot WR which is a smaller, shorter player. I like Hollywood Brown's speed and playmaking ability, but the durability is the concern with those body types. I just see a player like him as injury prone.

We just got rid of a injury prone player in Cobb. We don't want/need a repeat

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There really is no room for a guy like the aforementioned draft prospects to develop/get the snaps with Aaron to become something without giving up on the guys we just got.

In my opinion the Packers could definitely need a small and shifty slot receiver but after reading Gutekunst's comments it seems he's not interested in bringing in a player like that.

 

[Dantés]

If he wants a bigger, tough slot receiver, then A.J. Brown should be on the radar.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

The more I think about this, the more I like it..... Always remember watching SHAQ back in the day.... Drop it over the top and shaq would grab it and put it in its home. Unstopable......
I want WRs who can do that to the (typically) shorter defenders. TEs are the same......

You start looking at other fringe benefits... More blockers available up front. More blocking down field for the rbs too. Thats one thing I get super stoked about is when. A wr makes a good block..... Cobb at 5'10" 190 isn't going to block squat consistently.... Where as the 2nd TE has 6" and 50+ pounds on him. Now you can think about strategizing a block....

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Reading up on DK Metcalf.... He was rated a 1-4th round pick before his great combine numbers... Coming off a season ending neck injury last year. Didn't hear about that until yesterday... His stats weren't that impressive either.... Maybe if he slips to #30 I'd consider.... But Definately not at #12...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Another strategic detail..... Fast RBs are one thing. Speed kills. But I have always been keen to those Barry Sanders type 5'8" 205ish body styles for RBs....
They have low center of gravity. Good power. Usually have to hit them solid to take them down, and that seems to be harder to do with their built in agility that comes with low center of gravity.... And burst. They always seem to have the right amount of burst to hit those small holes. The one downfall of those types is they are usually slower and don't break many 80 yarders...

Now couple a rb of this style with 6'3 220 pound WRs and a Jimmy Graham 6'7" running a 4.5. And the defenders have to play their bigger players to counter....

Those bigger defenders will always have more trouble with those shifty short RBs who can turn on a dime...

Jones is an absolute stud in terms of tallent. But been hurt too much. Williams is solid all around. But been hurt some too... Monty is gone now. So another rb is a must. There is a few good short rbs in this draft. I'd like to see a 3rd or 4th round pick spent on one of them......I got them in the 4th in the Amish draft contest....but trading our 3rd back to later in 3rd, picking up another later round pick.....I wouldn't be against that either.....

 

[GleefulGary]

Jimmy Graham ain't running no 4.5 lol

 

[GleefulGary]

AJ Brown to play the slot or N'Keal Harry to play outside and Allison in the slot.

Hakeem Butler would be very fun as well.

 

[XPack]

Maybe we 're looking at TE's covering slot receiver roles. Like Graham who has size advantage and can get a bit of separation in middle for short throws.

Maybe a 2 TE set with Graham in slot and Tonyan at TE or vice versa.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I've been talking about the possibility of the Packers going big slot for months now. That now seems to be on the table.

The best argument for small slots is they typically don't cost much in draft capital, a lot of twitch for the buck so to speak. The injury issue in running inside routes is not be taken lightly, however, and the smaller the player the riskier it gets.

Consider New England, the team that invented the concept of the small, jitterbug slot as a primary target with Wes Welker. That's a guy who had 6 concussions in 12 seasons. I think you'll find meaningful concussion histories among his small slot successors. Then there are the other injury possibilities. It is not a position where you want to expend a lot of draft capital or cap if your plan is to run the slot under linebackers and safeties all day.

Big slots have a better chance of survival, like TEs but to a lesser degree. A defender is a lot less likely to target a big receiver for a "light 'em up" hit than a guy who can give as well as he gets.

Among the current Packer receivers I'd say Moore best fits the big slot profile. He's big, stong, and his agility drills from the Combine say "sudden" for a guy that size. He does have to get his sh*t together; suspect hands don't cut it in the danger zone. I hope he's been on the Jugs machine dawn to dusk.

There are factors that can reduce the liklihood of injury in the danger zone. First, a QB that does not lead receivers into dangerous blind side hits. Rodgers is pretty good at that. Brady not so much. Nobody avoids it altogether. Next, the receiver has to trust his QB is not going to set him up for that hit. If he doesn't have that trust he's going to be looking for that defender and he's going to drop some balls. Next, the receiver has to have a knack for making the business decision when it is called for, catch and go to the ground when he senses trouble. Adams runs short inside routes out of the slot or from the wideout position and has that knack.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Another strategic detail..... Fast RBs are one thing. Speed kills. But I have always been keen to those Barry Sanders type 5'8" 205ish body styles for RBs....
They have low center of gravity. Good power. Usually have to hit them solid to take them down, and that seems to be harder to do with their built in agility that comes with low center of gravity.... And burst. They always seem to have the right amount of burst to hit those small holes. The one downfall of those types is they are usually slower and don't break many 80 yarders...

Now couple a rb of this style with 6'3 220 pound WRs and a Jimmy Graham 6'7" running a 4.5. And the defenders have to play their bigger players to counter....

Those bigger defenders will always have more trouble with those shifty short RBs who can turn on a dime...

Jones is an absolute stud in terms of tallent. But been hurt too much. Williams is solid all around. But been hurt some too... Monty is gone now. So another rb is a must. There is a few good short rbs in this draft. I'd like to see a 3rd or 4th round pick spent on one of them......I got them in the 4th in the Amish draft contest....but trading our 3rd back to later in 3rd, picking up another later round pick.....I wouldn't be against that either.....

Height wouldn’t even matter to me as long as he’s a shifty/elusive playmaker ala Christian McCaffrey 5’11” or Alvin Kamara 5’10” but your right. A “one cut guy” out in space behind our big blockers is exactly what this 0 needs.

 

[gopkrs]

The best argument for small slots is they typically don't cost much in draft capital, a lot of twitch for the buck so to speak. The injury issue in running inside routes is not be take lightly.

For me, the best argument for a smaller, shiftier and quicker slot receiver is that he open up more space for other receivers/tight ends and for himself.

 

[HardRightEdge]

For me, the best argument for a smaller, shiftier and quicker slot receiver is that he open up more space for other receivers/tight ends and for himself.

And how is that incosistent with "a lot of twitch for the buck"? You'll probably need two of them given the injury risk so the cost becomes important.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Height wouldn’t even matter to me as long as he’s a shifty/elusive playmaker ala Christian McCaffrey 5’11” or Alvin Kamara 5’10” but your right. A “one cut guy” out in space behind our big blockers is exactly what this 0 needs.

Those guys are running backs. They are not running those routes out of the slot all day.

 

[gopkrs]

And how is that incosistent with "a lot of twitch for the buck"? You'll probably need two of them given the injury risk so the cost becomes important.

I don't think we have much disagreement. I was only trying to say that I believe the traditional slot has a lot to offer the offense in general. Not to mention they can be good punt returners.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Reading up on DK Metcalf.... He was rated a 1-4th round pick before his great combine numbers... Coming off a season ending neck injury last year. Didn't hear about that until yesterday... His stats weren't that impressive either.... Maybe if he slips to #30 I'd consider.... But Definately not at #12...

Metcalf was used wrong at Ole Miss. The offense was geared towards getting Brown more targets. They didn't use any of their outside WR's properly. I saw D.K. practice and play live and this dude may not be Calvin Johnson, but he sure has a lot of his traits and is faster.

If Hockenson, Oliver, and Burns etc.. are all gone at #12 and Metcalf is still there..I would have to seriously consider Metcalf at that point. Has all the traits to be a difference maker. I'd love to see what LaFleur and Alvis Whitted could do with him. How could you not even consider him at 12? Haha. Of course you would be ecstatic if he lasted to 30, but he won't. I had the same feeling about Hock early. Now I realize it's like only a 25% chance Hock slides to 12.

With pick #12 I want a true difference maker. You take the best player available when you are picking that high. You can't think about need at #12. This is one reason Gute signed 4 high priced players this offseason. He knows he has to hit on difference makers for years to come with these first 3 picks.

Injuries happen. Nothing from the past is thought to hinder him going forward. Any player can get injured. Some are worth more of the risk though. I truly believe DK has the highest ceiling of any WR in this draft. Some of you get too caught up in what you see listed as the top players in mocks. Keep in mind that most of the cats making those mocks have not a single clue.

Just saying it is very intriguing to think of DK lining up outside opposite Davante. I guess the bottom line is that I would not be mad at Gute if he drafted Metcalf.

Metcalf isn't my first choice, 2nd ,or 3rd choice at #12, but he sure as hell is on my radar if he is there at #12.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Those guys are running backs. They are not running those routes out of the slot all day.

We don’t need them to. The beauty about a versital playmaker is we can line them up anywhere on the field. These guys get targeted 8 times a game. I think we are fine rotating Adams, EQ, and MVS at slot. I love the upside we have at WR. The unknown is at the 2. We all hope MVS and Kumero will develop but who knows. Do I like them enough along with Geronimo not to want to draft a WR round 1? Yes. Do I believe in them enough to not want to grab a sliding Campbell, Butler, or Ridley in the 2nd? Of course not.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Metcalf was used wrong at Ole Miss. The offense was geared towards getting Brown more targets. They didn't use any of their outside WR's properly. I saw D.K. practice and play live and this dude may not be Calvin Johnson, but he sure has a lot of his traits and is faster.

If Hockenson, Oliver, and Burns etc.. are all gone at #12 and Metcalf is still there..I would have to seriously consider Metcalf at that point. Has all the traits to be a difference maker. I'd love to see what LaFleur and Alvis Whitted could do with him. How could you not even consider him at 12? Haha. Of course you would be ecstatic if he lasted to 30, but he won't. I had the same feeling about Hock early. Now I realize it's like only a 25% chance Hock slides to 12.

With pick #12 I want a true difference maker. You take the best player available when you are picking that high. You can't think about need at #12. This is one reason Gute signed 4 high priced players this offseason. He knows he has to hit on difference makers for years to come with these first 3 picks.

Injuries happen. Nothing from the past is thought to hinder him going forward. Any player can get injured. Some are worth more of the risk though. I truly believe DK has the highest ceiling of any WR in this draft. Some of you get too caught up in what you see listed as the top players in mocks. Keep in mind that most of the cats making those mocks have not a single clue.

Just saying it is very intriguing to think of DK lining up outside opposite Davante. I guess the bottom line is that I would not be mad at Gute if he drafted Metcalf.

Metcalf isn't my first choice, 2nd ,or 3rd choice at #12, but he sure as hell is on my radar if he is there at #12.

How do you use a guy that’s good at one thing? He can’t run routes plain and simple. There’s a reason Brown was the focal point of the offense. He’ll be the kind of NFL player that will score 3 times in one game and then disappear for the next eight. No thank you. Not at #12.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

How do you use a guy that’s good at one thing? He can’t run routes plain and simple. There’s a reason Brown was the focal point of the offense. He’ll be the kind of NFL player that will score 3 times in one game and then disappear for the next eight. No thank you. Not at #12.

He ran a limited route tree at Ole Miss because of the offense and coaching there. Not because he lacks skills.

NFL Scout: "Very smooth route runner for his size with good hip sink and quickness through his breaks. Lateral quickness is rare for his size and allows him to seperate consistently. Varies tempo with routes to lull DB's to sleep and knows how to attack leverage with angles in his stem. Sells strong vertical push before stopping on a dime for comebacks. Big time ability to fight through contact and address the ball at it's highest point. He is very polished in his release and wins in a variety of ways at the line. I have him as a top 10 prospect in this class and believe he is one of the best receiver prospects we have seen in a while. My pro comparison is Josh Gordon without the off field issues"

We can a agree to disagree on Metcalf, and he isn't one of my first choices at 12, but I think it's ridiculous to try to imply he would be a huge reach at #12.

Are you one of the people here who want to take a guard at 12? Jk. Well, someone here actually said Lindstrom would be a great pick at 12 for the Pack. I am not against taking OL high, but Lindstrom at 12? Talk about reach. Haha.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Metcalf was used wrong at Ole Miss. The offense was geared towards getting Brown more targets. They didn't use any of their outside WR's properly. I saw D.K. practice and play live and this dude may not be Calvin Johnson, but he sure has a lot of his traits and is faster.

If Hockenson, Oliver, and Burns etc.. are all gone at #12 and Metcalf is still there..I would have to seriously consider Metcalf at that point. Has all the traits to be a difference maker. I'd love to see what LaFleur and Alvis Whitted could do with him. How could you not even consider him at 12? Haha. Of course you would be ecstatic if he lasted to 30, but he won't. I had the same feeling about Hock early. Now I realize it's like only a 25% chance Hock slides to 12.

With pick #12 I want a true difference maker. You take the best player available when you are picking that high. You can't think about need at #12. This is one reason Gute signed 4 high priced players this offseason. He knows he has to hit on difference makers for years to come with these first 3 picks.

Injuries happen. Nothing from the past is thought to hinder him going forward. Any player can get injured. Some are worth more of the risk though. I truly believe DK has the highest ceiling of any WR in this draft. Some of you get too caught up in what you see listed as the top players in mocks. Keep in mind that most of the cats making those mocks have not a single clue.

Just saying it is very intriguing to think of DK lining up outside opposite Davante. I guess the bottom line is that I would not be mad at Gute if he drafted Metcalf.

Metcalf isn't my first choice, 2nd ,or 3rd choice at #12, but he sure as hell is on my radar if he is there at #12.

I was caught up in the flash too. Metcalf looks Julio jones-esque in stature. But how could early predictions have him going round 1-4 last year at this time? I read lots of question marks. Durability, routes, stats, consistency. Besides the neck injury.... I just think #12 is a must hit pick. And Metcalf has too many question marks for me. He is no Julio. Imo