Gm rankings for draft

[Heyjoe4]

According to this place, the outside LB coach reports directly to Murphy. A lot of non-football people (marketing, legal, etc.) do also. Also at that site I see the 49ers, Falcons, and Eagles have a similar structure as far as HC and GM each reporting to a CEO / owner type of person. In Dallas, the owner is the GM.

Thanks Poppa, that's pretty interesting. I guess Jerry Jones sets the bar for dysfunctional. i mean, who else would keep a failing HC for eight years, and then hire Mike McCarthy?

But the outside LB coach reporting to the Murphy? That's really weird. I get that non-football people would report to him. I didn't know though that this reporting structure was used elsewhere. The Niners doesn't surprise me, given the nature of the Yorks. I'm a little surprised by the Falcons. Seems like their owner is a sensible business man and would use another structure. Not sure about the Eagles.

But thanks for the info!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gute has always said he looks at the best players available at every position in every draft. He had said since 2018 that if there was a QB he really likes he would draft him with a first round pick. He was asked the same question before the 2019 draft and answered the same way. Not long before the 2020 draft he said something similar.

Gute wanted Justin Jefferson in the first round in 2020, but couldn't find a trade partner to move up high enough to get him. Then Justin was gone. Gute was not as high on any of the other WRs, but was very high on J-Love. He found a opportunity to go up and get J-Love. Jordan was the top player on his board after Justin Jefferson. Why would he not at least try to get his BPA when he picks? That is what he did.

Any good GM will tell you that the best time to draft your future QB is when you don't need a QB. A GMs job is to sustain the success of the franchise.

Some can disagree on what J-Love can become, but no one can deny that Gute has this team set up better than most teams in the present and future at QB. That is because of Gute going and getting his BPA in the first round of the 2020 draft.

Aaron loves Jordan like Gute does. Aaron is excited to see how Jordan develops under Tom Clements. All is well. Aaron is now 100% fine with the pick because he knows the facts above.

Aaron wants another Lombardi and could very well retire after getting that accomplished. Will that be after this season? Stay tuned.

All GMs will say they take the BPA. I don't buy that, and if you look at the Packers' drafting, it seems to be more for need. That said, I'm pretty sure the player drafted for need is within 2 or 3 spots of the BPA on any GM's draft board. In other words, most GMs won't reach far from a BPA to draft for need, and sometimes they may line up just fine. In other cases where their BPA is far away, they'll trade the pick rather than reach.

A good example is Gluten trading two late second round picks to get Christian Watson early in the second round. I'm pretty sure Christian Watson wasn't the #34 player on Gluten's draft board. Even at that, he didn't reach too far - and he desperately needed a WR.

As for Love, nothing will convince me that it was anything but a huge reach. Gluten thought Rodgers was close to done, and so he thought he needed a QB. That he traded up makes it worse. I think Love would have gone somewhere in the second or third round.

Most of us have different opinions on this. I respect yours, and hope you're right and Love turns into a great QB for GB. I just don't see it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I'm not criticizing the selection of Love because of I don't like him as a prospect but that in my opinion it wasn't necessary to select any quarterback in the first round period. It's too early to fairly evaluate Love with it being possible that he develops into a decent starter at the NFL level. But I don't see that happening with the Packers.



In my opinion Rodgers having suffered two broken collarbones hasn't resulted in him being injury-prone. Especially as he hasn't missed a single game because of any other injury since 2010.



The Packers aren't interested in trading Love because they wouldn't receive decent value in return and would have to find a backup quarterback.



I highly doubt anyone is currently expecting Love to develop into an elite quarterback after seeing him perform over the past two years.



First of all I'm not sure the structure of Gutekunst, Ball and MLF all having to report to Murphy is still in place. In addition I'm quite sure Gutekunst has at least some control over head coaching decisions.



I'm convinced that's bogus.

As for Love, I still don't like him as a prospect. I do agree that there was no need that year to draft a QB in the first round, much less trade up for him. It wasn't a total disaster, they have a serviceable backup QB in Love. But those guys don't get drafted in the first round (usually), and the Packers are stuck with Love as they could not get value for him in a trade.

As for the org structure, and given Gluten's recent run of success, he probably does have some say over decisions by MLF. Fortunately MLF is a low-maintenance guy and does his job well, allowing Gluten to focus on personnel.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Gute had Justin Jefferson rated high and also had J-Love rated high. Once he wasn't able to obtain Jefferson he made sure he didn't lose out on both players he really liked.

No disrespect, but there is zero factual evidence that when teams move up it is always based strictly on need. Sometimes a player a team has rated very high falls into the 20's, and they have a trade partner that is willing to do a deal, they then go get the best player on their board. Great GMs do whatever it takes to get the best football players regardless of need.

Interesting, not too surprising that Gluten had JJ rated high. I don't agree Love was the BPA, but neither were any of the remaining WRs as I recall.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Thanks Poppa, that's pretty interesting. I guess Jerry Jones sets the bar for dysfunctional. i mean, who else would keep a failing HC for eight years, and then hire Mike McCarthy?

But the outside LB coach reporting to the Murphy? That's really weird. I get that non-football people would report to him. I didn't know though that this reporting structure was used elsewhere. The Niners doesn't surprise me, given the nature of the Yorks. I'm a little surprised by the Falcons. Seems like their owner is a sensible business man and would use another structure. Not sure about the Eagles.

But thanks for the info!

I don't know if that reported Falcons org structure is technically true or not, but Blank does not meddle with his GM/HC's. He lets those guys call the shots on personnel.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't know if that reported Falcons org structure is technically true or not, but Blank does not meddle with his GM/HC's. He lets those guys call the shots on personnel.

Blank, that name was right there and I couldn't recall it. But yeah, my impression over the years is that he doesn't meddle. I believe they've made some GM snd coaching decisions recently to try and right that ship.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

All GMs will say they take the BPA. I don't buy that, and if you look at the Packers' drafting, it seems to be more for need. That said, I'm pretty sure the player drafted for need is within 2 or 3 spots of the BPA on any GM's draft board. In other words, most GMs won't reach far from a BPA to draft for need, and sometimes they may line up just fine. In other cases where their BPA is far away, they'll trade the pick rather than reach.

A good example is Gluten trading two late second round picks to get Christian Watson early in the second round. I'm pretty sure Christian Watson wasn't the #34 player on Gluten's draft board. Even at that, he didn't reach too far - and he desperately needed a WR.

As for Love, nothing will convince me that it was anything but a huge reach. Gluten thought Rodgers was close to done, and so he thought he needed a QB. That he traded up makes it worse. I think Love would have gone somewhere in the second or third round.

Most of us have different opinions on this. I respect yours, and hope you're right and Love turns into a great QB for GB. I just don't see it.

No disrespect, but I will go with the thoughts of several respected NFL GMs over the thoughts of how a random fan on a message board believes GMs operate.

Gute and several people on Gute's staff loved Christian Watson and they did whatever it took to get the player they loved. You can type until your fingers are blue but it doesn't change the facts.

Packers director of football operations Milt Hendrickson on the Packers loving Watson and the cost of trading up for him:

"A pick is just a pick until it becomes a player. From that standpoint, if you really love the player, you just find a way to get him."

 

[Heyjoe4]

No disrespect, but I will go with the thoughts of several respected NFL GMs over the thoughts of how a random fan on a message board believes GMs operate.

Gute and several people on Gute's staff loved Christian Watson and they did whatever it took to get the player they loved. You can type until your fingers are blue but it doesn't change the facts.

Packers director of football operations Milt Hendrickson on the Packers loving Watson and the cost of trading up for him:

"A pick is just a pick until it becomes a player. From that standpoint, if you really love the player, you just find a way to get him."

"A pick is just a pick until it becomes a player. From that standpoint, if you really love the player, you just find a way to get him."

Thanks for making my point. GMs draft for need, almost always. And all GMs are gonna say they draft BPA. If you want to believe them go ahead.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

"A pick is just a pick until it becomes a player. From that standpoint, if you really love the player, you just find a way to get him."

Thanks for making my point. GMs draft for need, almost always.

Nice try little one. Need is taking a player strictly based on the position they play. You are clueless and getting mad about it now. Getting triggered is never a good look. Sucks to be you.

Milt is talking about loving a player and doing whatever it takes to get him. Not picking a player because of a perceived "need" that a little fanboy claims the Packers have. GMs feel "needs" can change from April to September. Good GMs don't draft for need little one. Keep typing though. Perhaps maybe more of your clueless thoughts will make you feel better. Whatever helps you cope.

Enjoy your weekend. I know I will.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nice try little one. Need is taking a player strictly based on the position they play. You are clueless and getting mad about it now. Getting triggered is never a good look. Sucks to be you.

Milt is talking about loving a player and doing whatever it takes to get him. Not picking a player because of a perceived "need" that a little fanboy claims the Packers have. GMs feel "needs" can change from April to September. Good GMs don't draft for need little one. Keep typing though. Perhaps maybe more of your clueless thoughts will make you feel better. Whatever helps you cope.

Enjoy your weekend. I know I will.

Wow, you're a bitter, small person. Enjoy your weekend at the Star Trek convention. Time to put you on "Ignore" - so rant on. Goodbye.

 

[tynimiller]

Wow, you're a bitter, small person. Enjoy your weekend at the Star Trek convention. Time to put you on "Ignore" - so rant on. Goodbye.

Okay two things, Star Trek is amazing and I’m offended.

Second the ignore feature is petty…

That’s all.

As for this whole discussion, Gute has been knocking it out of the park in his time with arguably only one big faulter and that is the Love selection which there is merit on both sides of the logic or illogical nature of.

Otherwise I truly believe we have a Top 5 man in his spot out of the whole league and for a small market team he is doing amazing.

The way in which he has handled all the swirling issues with Rodgers and such has been nothing short of incredible.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Okay two things, Star Trek is amazing and I’m offended.

Second the ignore feature is petty…

That’s all.

As for this whole discussion, Gute has been knocking it out of the park in his time with arguably only one big faulter and that is the Love selection which there is merit on both sides of the logic or illogical nature of.

Otherwise I truly believe we have a Top 5 man in his spot out of the whole league and for a small market team he is doing amazing.

The way in which he has handled all the swirling issues with Rodgers and such has been nothing short of incredible.

You go to Star Trek conventions? Got it. The Ignore feature is really useful but this is the first time I've used it twice in one day.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Okay two things, Star Trek is amazing and I’m offended.

Second the ignore feature is petty…

That’s all.

As for this whole discussion, Gute has been knocking it out of the park in his time with arguably only one big faulter and that is the Love selection which there is merit on both sides of the logic or illogical nature of.

Otherwise I truly believe we have a Top 5 man in his spot out of the whole league and for a small market team he is doing amazing.

The way in which he has handled all the swirling issues with Rodgers and such has been nothing short of incredible.

Don't mind the little fanboy above. He was angry and had a tantrum because he was proven to be clueless. Got so embarrassed that he tucked tail and ran. Someday he will mature and learn from those more knowledgeable, rather than being jealous of them and crying.

To call Gute names like "Gluten" is yet another clear sign of his own insecurity and immaturity. I would guess he is a child, but even most 12 year olds are more mature, secure, and stable in their lives. Something is very off there. I do hope he can find the help he needs. We will all pray for him.

Interesting that he claims GMs always draft for need when his perceived main "need" for the Packers was WR and they took 2 defensive players with their 2 first round picks. The best players available on Gute's board! Great work as always Gute!

I would agree that Gute is in the Top 5 GMs in the NFL. He isn't number 5 though. There are not 4 better than him. Maybe 2, maybe.

 

[OldSchool101]

Who has said he is in decline now. All I said was that after 2 years of statistical decline (facts that can not be disputed) it was perfectly reasonable and responsible for Gute to consider the decline might continue and to plan ahead for that possibility.

Exactly
Some posters act like Gute just drafted a QB to make everyone mad. In his defense has he not been reasonable on his total body of acquisitions? Why do we think he went AWOL and didn’t think this one decision through thoroughly?

I might not have chose a QB there,
(I would have liked a Pass catching weapon) to not understand the logical reasoning behind the move seems more “out of the normal” way of thinking than the actual selection itself.

it’s 100% Ok to just not like the pick, I’d agree with that. I just don’t agree with the dog and pony Show of trying to defend that opinion by grasping in the dark for excuses to support disagreeing with it.

We didn’t have benefit of 2 MVP seasons. We had 2 declining seasons. Add to that.. Post injury and highly uncharacteristic of previous performance.

Even with that Selection, it’s highly likely a Rookie WR at #24 overall in 2020 pushes us to a SB victory. For the same reason these same posters question if a Rookie WR will highly excel this 2022 season. You can’t have it both ways. I see that as arguing out of both sides of our mouth.

 

[gopkrs]

As for Love, nothing will convince me that it was anything but a huge reach.

Nothing?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Exactly
Some posters act like Gute just drafted a QB to make everyone mad. In his defense has he not been reasonable on his total body of acquisitions? Why do we think he went AWOL and didn’t think this one decision through thoroughly?

I might not have chose a QB there,
(I would have liked a Pass catching weapon) to not understand the logical reasoning behind the move seems more “out of the normal” way of thinking than the actual selection itself.

it’s 100% Ok to just not like the pick, I’d agree with that. I just don’t agree with the dog and pony Show of trying to defend that opinion by grasping in the dark for excuses to support disagreeing with it.

We didn’t have benefit of 2 MVP seasons. We had 2 declining seasons. Add to that.. Post injury and highly uncharacteristic of previous performance.

Well said. It was a decision Gluten made. The reason for the pick are known only to him, and we've tied ourselves in knots trying to justify it, or not.

And three years down the road, does it really matter? He's done a great job with other personnel moves. The Packers still have a very competitive team. IMO it's best to leave it at that and move on. There are legitimate questions about WR, but other than that I'd say he's put together a very good team.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nothing?

Good point. While Love still has a chance, it will turn out to be a brilliant move if he ever becomes the Packers' starting QB, for an entire season, and leads the team to a deep playoff run. I don't think that's gonna happen, but it's not impossible. Never say never I guess!

 

[OldSchool101]

Well said. It was a decision Gluten made. The reason for the pick are known only to him, and we've tied ourselves in knots trying to justify it, or not.

And three years down the road, does it really matter? He's done a great job with other personnel moves. The Packers still have a very competitive team. IMO it's best to leave it at that and move on. There are legitimate questions about WR, but other than that I'd say he's put together a very good team.

Agreed. To piggyback onto that. In the meantime (agree or disagree with position selection) our 2020 draft selection at QB gave us a valuable backup with good potential.

Love should get more work earlier this season.
It’s reasonable to think we will see some improvement from him in his Sophomore season on the field (3rd in the playbook).

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed. To piggyback onto that. In the meantime our selection at QB gave us a valuable backup.
Love should get more work earlier this season.
It’s reasonable to think we will see some improvement from him in his Sophomore season on the field (3rd in the playbook).

Yeah. Hard to imagine a better backup. He should know the playbook inside and out, and maybe he bonds with some of the new guys. Who knows?

 

[sschind]

Yeah. Hard to imagine a better backup. He should know the playbook inside and out, and maybe he bonds with some of the new guys. Who knows?

Agreed. To piggyback onto that. In the meantime (agree or disagree with position selection) our 2020 draft selection at QB gave us a valuable backup with good potential.

Love should get more work earlier this season.
It’s reasonable to think we will see some improvement from him in his Sophomore season on the field (3rd in the playbook).

I'm not sure I agree with this. Personally I have not seen a whole lot from Love that makes me think he is anything but possibly a serviceable backup. I don't know if I would call him valuable other than his time served and knowledge of the system over someone else. I don't know that his skills put him any further ahead of any number of backups who have been with their teams for as long. As a first round draft pick I would hope what you are saying is true but I just haven't seen it.

And no, I'm not going to name one. Mainly because I don't make it a habit of paying attention to other teams backups.

 

[tynimiller]

Don't mind the little fanboy above. He was angry and had a tantrum because he was proven to be clueless. Got so embarrassed that he tucked tail and ran. Someday he will mature and learn from those more knowledgeable, rather than being jealous of them and crying.

To call Gute names like "Gluten" is yet another clear sign of his own insecurity and immaturity. I would guess he is a child, but even most 12 year olds are more mature, secure, and stable in their lives. Something is very off there. I do hope he can find the help he needs. We will all pray for him.

Interesting that he claims GMs always draft for need when his perceived main "need" for the Packers was WR and they took 2 defensive players with their 2 first round picks. The best players available on Gute's board! Great work as always Gute!

I would agree that Gute is in the Top 5 GMs in the NFL. He isn't number 5 though. There are not 4 better than him. Maybe 2, maybe.

Do not take my statement to think I agree with your childish, immature and ridiculous nature attacks.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Do not take my statement to think I agree with your childish, immature and ridiculous nature attacks.

I couldn't care less if you agree with me.

I "attacked" no one.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Personally I have not seen a whole lot from Love that makes me think he is anything but possibly a serviceable backup. I don't know if I would call him valuable other than his time served and knowledge of the system over someone else. I don't know that his skills put him any further ahead of any number of backups who have been with their teams for as long. As a first round draft pick I would hope what you are saying is true but I just haven't seen it.

And no, I'm not going to name one. Mainly because I don't make it a habit of paying attention to other teams backups.

So then …

You are admitting that he IS at least…

a memorable backup??

 

[tynimiller]

I couldn't care less if you agree with me.

I "attacked" no one.

You have the maturity of a child. Seriously??? This is the kinda of private message you send someone?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Personally I have not seen a whole lot from Love that makes me think he is anything but possibly a serviceable backup. I don't know if I would call him valuable other than his time served and knowledge of the system over someone else. I don't know that his skills put him any further ahead of any number of backups who have been with their teams for as long. As a first round draft pick I would hope what you are saying is true but I just haven't seen it.

And no, I'm not going to name one. Mainly because I don't make it a habit of paying attention to other teams backups.

I think we're actually saying the same thing, maybe Oldschool and I are a little more optimistic. Like you, I don't stay on top of other teams' backups. So yeah while Love has knowledge of the system, that doesn't mean he could win at least half of any games he starts, which is my minimum benchmark for a backup.

So hopefully competition for the Packers' backup QB is wide open during training camp. I certainly have no attachment to Love, first round draftee or not.