Free Agents you would like to see sign with Green Bay in 2019?

[Pokerbrat2000]

There is literally a debate going on over whether all the picks used to acquire a player should be included in calculating the cost of acquiring said player. That's peak forum right there.

This debate has been brewing ever since Spriggs was drafted, using ......3 picks LOL I'm starting to think these guys on the other end of it just like to egg me on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

we spent it, but it didn't cost us anything to use it and if we didn't use it, we wouldn't have saved anything, we would have just been left with nothing.

Then he was "free", since the other 2 picks we used (#125 and #248) combined with #57 which you call a "free pick", would be viewed the same, "didn't cost us anything to use them".

 

[FaninColorado]

We need to succeed on both fronts this offseason... need to sign FA's that are going to help this team out. Someone said earlier that we need to get at least 2 starters out of FA. I'd almost say we need at least 4 starters from the off-season. Of course that could also come from in house (for example: resigning Muhammad Wilkerson). Believing the old TT style is going to work is just outdated. Yes, you have to draft well, but NFL teams must use free agency as a way to improve their starting lineup and depth.

Might be smart to not go after an edge rusher in FA, but truly we need to get 2 new ones... One thru FA and one thru the draft is desirable or we will have to make a huge financial commitment in the future to both players when their rookie contracts are coming up. We need to get a veteran safety in here. We are already extremely young in the secondary and we need leadership badly. Earl Thomas is coming off a major injury, but he would be ideal. Most likely it would cost us somewhere between 8-10M/yr to get him, but would help out the entire secondary. We also can find a starting RG in FA as well (maybe Cole Madison coming back next year could help too)... guards aren't overly expensive and can be found fairly easily. Who would bring back from the current team that is becoming a free agent? Wilkerson, Breeland, Cobb, CM3, others?

1. Edge (Fowler or Clowney should be here next year... both are going to get around 13-15M/yr.)
2. Safety (Thomas 1st, 2nd, and 3rd before you go after say a Mathieu or other)
3. RG

If we are able to make an impact in free agency, it will allow Gute the luxury of taking best players available at the draft selection we are at or make trades. Those first 6 draft picks this year are going to be so important to the future of this team. There are some definite impact players in positions that we need major help at. Trading up is a possibility but with so many spots needing help... I'm hoping that we don't trade up. There are a couple players that should be drafted immediately if they fall to us, but of course there probably were a few last year that we thought had that designation (Derwin James, Tremaine Edmunds). It is really early to be picking hopefuls, but who would choose if they dropped down to us?

1. Edge
2. OT
3. OG
4. Both Safeties
5. #2 WR
6. TE

 

[Mondio]

Then he was "free", since the other 2 picks we used (#125 and #248) combined with #57 which you call a "free pick", would be viewed the same, "didn't cost us anything to use them".

No, because those "vouchers" could have been used for players, we didn't trade them in for players, we gave them to move up in line. They did cost, they cost the acquisition of 2 other players

 

[Dantés]

They spent three picks to acquire the 48th pick. Then they chose to use that 48th pick to select Spriggs. Hence he cost three picks. What would be incorrect would be to say he cost four (including the 48th).

 

[Mondio]

really? that's been covered.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No, because those "vouchers" could have been used for players, we didn't trade them in for players, we gave them to move up in line. They did cost, they cost the acquisition of 2 other players

By Jobe I think you finally are close Mate! So you acknowledge that Draft Picks = Vouchers. The Packers started the Draft with a handful of Vouchers with numbers on them. 3 of these Vouchers were numbered #57, #125 and #248. Once the Packers selected Jason Spriggs, did they still have any of those 3 vouchers?

 

[Mondio]

I get it, i've gotten it since we picked him. I never failed to understand the picks it took to get a player. My point the entire time has been he didn't cost us 3 picks. He cost 2 additional picks. If I have an apple and you have 2, but mine is a Golden Delicious which I don't really mind or want, bu you you do. And you have 2 Cortlands that I think are ok but you don't at all, but you love the Goldens we make a trade. You get my 1 apple and I get your 2. Yes, I realize I have 2 apples in my hands, but I didn't gain 2 apples. I gained 1 additional. It cost you 1 additional to get the 1 you wanted.

If I have pick #1 and I trade it and get Picks 2 and 3 in return, but give up #1. I didn't get 2 additional picks. I got 1 additional pick for moving back in line.

A draft pick isn't money. It's a spot in line. If you hang on to them they cost you everything though you get nothing in the end. You can't use them again next year. They only have value if you use them. 1 draft pick = 1 player. If I turn 1 draft pick into 2 draft picks, all I did was take a later place in line and pick up an additional player. I know I picked 2, but I already had 1. So I gained 1. I wouldn't say I gained 2.

You can list the draft numbers all you'd like. We didn't give up 3 picks to get Spriggs, we gave up 2 draft picks to move up and get him in that round. We traded two later spots in line to move up.

 

[Dantés]

I get it, i've gotten it since we picked him. I never failed to understand the picks it took to get a player. My point the entire time has been he didn't cost us 3 picks. He cost 2 additional picks. If I have an apple and you have 2, but mine is a Golden Delicious which I don't really mind or want, bu you you do. And you have 2 Cortlands that I think are ok but you don't at all, but you love the Goldens we make a trade. You get my 1 apple and I get your 2. Yes, I realize I have 2 apples in my hands, but I didn't gain 2 apples. I gained 1 additional. It cost you 1 additional to get the 1 you wanted.

If I have pick #1 and I trade it and get Picks 2 and 3 in return, but give up #1. I didn't get 2 additional picks. I got 1 additional pick for moving back in line.

A draft pick isn't money. It's a spot in line. If you hang on to them they cost you everything though you get nothing in the end. You can't use them again next year. They only have value if you use them. 1 draft pick = 1 player. If I turn 1 draft pick into 2 draft picks, all I did was take a later place in line and pick up an additional player. I know I picked 2, but I already had 1. So I gained 1. I wouldn't say I gained 2.

You can list the draft numbers all you'd like. We didn't give up 3 picks to get Spriggs, we gave up 2 draft picks to move up and get him in that round. We traded two later spots in line to move up.

By this logic, picking a player without trading up costs the team 0 picks. Surely you can see how silly that is.

We spent three picks on Spriggs. That's self-evident.

 

[Mondio]

By this logic, picking a player without trading up costs the team 0 picks. Surely you can see how silly that is.

We spent three picks on Spriggs. That's self-evident.

NO ****

That's not my point. My point is he cost TWO to move up to get him. Did we have 2 less players after that trade or 3?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

NO ****

That's not my point. My point is he cost TWO to move up to get him. Did we have 2 less players after that trade or 3?

Yes, you are correct, Spriggs cost 2 additional picks, but to obtain him, the Packers used 3 picks. We had 2 less picks immediately after the trade and 3 less picks after the Packers cashed in the new one for Spriggs.

 

[Mondio]

No kidding, that's been said since the day we picked him. Every player requires a pick. It's a sum Zero game. he cost us 2 picks to move and get him. We had 2 fewer at the end of the day after that trade. That's what it "cost" the team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No kidding, that's been said since the day we picked him. Every player requires a pick. It's a sum Zero game. he cost us 2 picks to move and get him. We had 2 fewer at the end of the day after that trade. That's what it "cost" the team.

No, that was the "additional" cost. If a team goes into a draft with 7 picks and makes no trades, each player they pick, costs them one of those picks. Let's say the Packers wanted the #1 pick in the draft and said to the Raiders, "we will give you all of our picks (7) for your #1 pick. The Packers choose Bosa, how many picks did the Packers use to draft Bosa? If you say they used 6 picks, you still don't understand this. Where did the 7th pick go?

 

[Mondio]

I can't figure out if you're intentionally being this way or not. I don't know how many times I have to say it, YES a pick is a player. You must use 1 draft pick on any player you wish to draft. You can't draft any player without using 1 draft pick. If I want X player when it is my turn, i am going to have to use that draft selection. If I have pick 17 and player B is there at pick 17, I have to use pick 17 to get him or risk the chance of losing him if I wait. How many other ways do I need to say that it's ****ing obvious, and not at all the point I've been trying to make, that a drafted player must have a draft pick used on them?

Yes, we used 3 picks, which I think it's a bit misleading to say, knowing that EVERY draft pick requires a pick be made.

if I trade pick 1 for picks 3 and 4, I didn't get 2 picks. I got 1. Yes, I know that picks 3 and 4 are actually 2 picks. Do you realize that I only gained 1 pick by moving back in line? I didn't gain 2. that is the point. That has been the point and I have no idea why you keep wanting to make it about something else?

 

[Dantés]

It's not misleading to say they spent three picks to trade up for him as what they actually did was spend three picks to move up for him.

 

[Mondio]

It's not misleading to say they spent three picks to trade up for him as what they actually did was spend three picks to move up for him.

you guys can really be something LOL

Technically, I know everything that was involved, but I appreciate you trying to make me aware . You would be the person that would say you got 2 picks by giving up 1 and I would say I got 1 pick by moving back in line. I didn't lose a spot, I just moved it back and got another 1.

I'll chalk it up to perspective and I do find it misleading if someone says we gave up 2 picks to move up and get Spriggs and they get told they're wrong, it gets argued for 3 years that it really cost 3 picks just so it seems like we gave up more We had 2 less chances to pick players because we used them to move up in line. am I wrong?

 

[Dantés]

you guys can really be something LOL

Technically, I know everything that was involved, but I appreciate you trying to make me aware . You would be the person that would say you got 2 picks by giving up 1 and I would say I got 1 pick by moving back in line. I didn't lose a spot, I just moved it back and got another 1.

I'll chalk it up to perspective and I do find it misleading if someone says we gave up 2 picks to move up and get Spriggs and they get told they're wrong, it gets argued for 3 years that it really cost 3 picks just so it seems like we gave up more We had 2 less chances to pick players because we used them to move up in line. am I wrong?

I'm not going to answer that question because I don't see this going anywhere. We both know what happened. That can be enough. Cheers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am taking a new position on the question of "How many draft picks did we use to acquire Jason Spriggs?"

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[swhitset]

It's not misleading to say they spent three picks to trade up for him as what they actually did was spend three picks to move up for him.

No using those exact words... that is simply wrong. They used 2 picks to move up. However... I would agree that the cost to draft him is 3 picks... The one they used to draft him... and the two that they spent to move up.

 

[Dantés]

No using those exact words... that is simply wrong. They used 2 picks to move up. However... I would agree that the cost to draft him is 3 picks... The one they used to draft him... and the two that they spent to move up.

This thread is so face palm worthy.

It's not wrong to say they used three picks to trade up to the 48th pick. It's factual.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Projected cap space in 2019: $47, 525, 500

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

Let's break that down, once again, with the current numbers.

• The current contractual obligations for 2019 equal approx. $152.1 mil for 42 players, not including any of the following free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/green-bay-packers/
• Here are the 42 players that $152.1 mil is buying, the starting point in determining needs: click on the 2019 tab at https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/
• That $47.5 mil in cap space implies a Packers $199.5 mil cap number = $9.6 mil in carryover + a $189.9 mil 2019 league cap number
• The carryover is reasonably close to the current NFLPA 2018 cap space number of $9.1 mil: https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
• The $189.9 mil league cap number is a $12.7 mil bump over 2018, a little aggressive compared to this season's $10.2 mil bump

But lets go with that $47.5 mil cap space number and consider some basic subtractions:

• Assuming the Packers are drafting at #15, #30, #47 and #79, consider the 2018 cap costs for those picks: $2.4 mil (Colton Miller), $1.8 mil (Mike Hughes) and $1.1 mil (Christian Kirk) and $0.7 mil (Rasheem Green).
• That's a $6 mil subtraction + 7% bump in line with the cap bump = $6.4 mil.
• If nothing else, these numbers under the rookie salary scale, with generally modest escalations over the 4 year rookie contracts (e.g., Miller at $4.3 mil in year 4), illustrate the imperative of stacking good drafts in building a championship caliber team.
• Free agenting one's way to winning will never work.

Now we're at $41.1 mil in cap space for 46 players. More minimum subtractions:

• The cost of filling out the remaining 7 spots with the remaining draftees and UDFAs at $500,000 per player, give or take, is a $3.5 mil subtraction.
• The cost of 10 practice squad guys should come in around $1.4 mil.
• Cap has to be held in reserve for IR replacements. Also, if Gutekunst's shuffling of the bottom of the roster in-season continues, add a little for dead cap. $3 mil would be a prudent minimal number.

Now we're at $33.2 mil to fill out the roster and maintain a minimum reserve before considering FAs.

But if you spend it all down to the $3 mil in reserve, and you'd like to extend Clark and Martinez before the year is out, you will not have the cap to do that. Make the necessary subtractions for prorated signing bonuses allocated to 2018 for those guys, something like $6 mil, maybe more depending on what Clark commands.

In "tear it down" mode, you could pick up additiona cap space with the following cuts but with more holes to fill:

• Perry: $3.3 mil
• Bulaga: $6.8 mil
• Daniels (in his 2019 contract year): $8.5 mil

There is a long way to go to get to a championship caliber roster with that $47.5 in projected cap space when you consider the list of 42 players under contract at $152 mil for 2019. My prescription is to target 2020 by concentrating spending on a couple of talented second contract free agents at positions of need who, of course, will be quite expensive. Mack money on one player wouldn't and won't fix what is broken.

Gutekunst was headed in this direction, allegedly in the bidding for Allen Robinson and Mack, though I doubt the Mack interest got very far once the costs were revealed, while also making a restricted free agent offer for Fuller. Any one of these signings would have altered other free agent moves, cuts and the draft.

Whether talking about a contract like Graham's or going out and signing some 30 year old guy on the downside of his career, let alone one with an injury history like Earl Thomas (a name that keeps popping up), is throwing good money after bad in an attempt to back and fill into a championship caliber roster. That doesn't work unless you've already stacked drafts, have decent depth for injury coverage and rotation, and are looking to back and fill a couple of holes or add some missing impact component. Those 42 players under contract for 2019 do not come close.

If McCarthy is going to be canned it should happen pretty quickly after the end of the season. Bringing in a new head coach I would take as an acknowlegment that one more year of draft and FA is not going to fix what's broken.

 

[sschind]

To move up to the Indianapolis Colts' spot at No. 48 overall, the Packers gave up:

1. second-round pick (No. 57) (*insert count voice* "that's 1, one pick!")
2. fourth-round pick (No. 125) (*insert count voice* "that's 2, two picks!")
3. seventh-rounder (No. 248).(*insert count voice* "that's 3, three picks!")

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They may have given up 3 but they got one back so that's a net cost of 2 in my book

 

[sschind]

There is literally a debate going on over whether all the picks used to acquire a player should be included in calculating the cost of acquiring said player. That's peak forum right there.

Its probably more interesting than the team right now.

 

[sschind]

Let's break that down, once again, with the current numbers.

• The current contractual obligations for 2019 equal approx. $152.1 mil for 42 players, not including any of the following free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/green-bay-packers/
• Here are the 42 players that $152.1 mil is buying, the starting point in determining needs: click on the 2019 tab at https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/
• That $47.5 mil in cap space implies a Packers $199.5 mil cap number = $9.6 mil in carryover + a $189.9 mil 2019 league cap number
• The carryover is reasonably close to the current NFLPA 2018 cap space number of $9.1 mil: https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
• The $189.9 mil league cap number is a $12.7 mil bump over 2018, a little aggressive compared to this season's $10.2 mil bump

But lets go with that $47.5 mil cap space number and consider some basic subtractions:

• Assuming the Packers are drafting at #15, #30, #47 and #79, consider the 2018 cap costs for those picks: $2.4 mil (Colton Miller), $1.8 mil (Mike Hughes) and $1.1 mil (Christian Kirk) and $0.7 mil (Rasheem Green).
• That's a $6 mil subtraction + 7% bump in line with the cap bump = $6.4 mil.
• If nothing else, these numbers under the rookie salary scale, with generally modest escalations over the 4 year rookie contracts (e.g., Miller at $4.3 mil in year 4), illustrate the imperative of stacking good drafts in building a championship caliber team.
• Free agenting one's way to winning will never work.

Now we're at $41.1 mil in cap space for 46 players. More minimum subtractions:

• The cost of filling out the remaining 7 spots with the remaining draftees and UDFAs at $500,000 per player, give or take, is a $3.5 mil subtraction.
• The cost of 10 practice squad guys should come in around $1.4 mil.
• Cap has to be held in reserve for IR replacements. Also, if Gutekunst's shuffling of the bottom of the roster in-season continues, add a little for dead cap. $3 mil would be a prudent minimal number.

Now we're at $33.2 mil to fill out the roster and maintain a minimum reserve before considering FAs.

But if you spend it all down to the $3 mil in reserve, and you'd like to extend Clark and Martinez before the year is out, you will not have the cap to do that. Make the necessary subtractions for prorated signing bonuses allocated to 2018 for those guys, something like $6 mil, maybe more depending on what Clark commands.

In "tear it down" mode, you could pick up additiona cap space with the following cuts but with more holes to fill:

• Perry: $3.3 mil
• Bulaga: $6.8 mil
• Daniels (in his 2019 contract year): $8.5 mil

There is a long way to go to get to a championship caliber roster with that $47.5 in projected cap space when you consider the list of 42 players under contract at $152 mil for 2019. My prescription is to target 2020 by concentrating spending on a couple of talented second contract free agents at positions of need who, of course, will be quite expensive. Mack money on one player wouldn't and won't fix what is broken.

Gutekunst was headed in this direction, allegedly in the bidding for Allen Robinson and Mack, though I doubt the Mack interest got very far once the costs were revealed, while also making a restricted free agent offer for Fuller. Any one of these signings would have altered other free agent moves, cuts and the draft.

Whether talking about a contract like Graham's or going out and signing some 30 year old guy on the downside of his career, let alone one with an injury history like Earl Thomas (a name that keeps popping up), is throwing good money after bad in an attempt to back and fill into a championship caliber roster. That doesn't work unless you've already stacked drafts, have decent depth for injury coverage and rotation, and are looking to back and fill a couple of holes or add some missing impact component. Those 42 players under contract for 2019 do not come close.

If McCarthy is going to be canned it should happen pretty quickly after the end of the season. Bringing in a new head coach I would take as an acknowlegment that one more year of draft and FA is not going to fix what's broken.

Stop cluttering up this thread with on topic posts.

 

[McKnowledge]

Let's break that down, once again, with the current numbers.

• The current contractual obligations for 2019 equal approx. $152.1 mil for 42 players, not including any of the following free agents: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/green-bay-packers/
• Here are the 42 players that $152.1 mil is buying, the starting point in determining needs: click on the 2019 tab at https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/
• That $47.5 mil in cap space implies a Packers $199.5 mil cap number = $9.6 mil in carryover + a $189.9 mil 2019 league cap number
• The carryover is reasonably close to the current NFLPA 2018 cap space number of $9.1 mil: https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
• The $189.9 mil league cap number is a $12.7 mil bump over 2018, a little aggressive compared to this season's $10.2 mil bump

But lets go with that $47.5 mil cap space number and consider some basic subtractions:

• Assuming the Packers are drafting at #15, #30, #47 and #79, consider the 2018 cap costs for those picks: $2.4 mil (Colton Miller), $1.8 mil (Mike Hughes) and $1.1 mil (Christian Kirk) and $0.7 mil (Rasheem Green).
• That's a $6 mil subtraction + 7% bump in line with the cap bump = $6.4 mil.
• If nothing else, these numbers under the rookie salary scale, with generally modest escalations over the 4 year rookie contracts (e.g., Miller at $4.3 mil in year 4), illustrate the imperative of stacking good drafts in building a championship caliber team.
• Free agenting one's way to winning will never work.

Now we're at $41.1 mil in cap space for 46 players. More minimum subtractions:

• The cost of filling out the remaining 7 spots with the remaining draftees and UDFAs at $500,000 per player, give or take, is a $3.5 mil subtraction.
• The cost of 10 practice squad guys should come in around $1.4 mil.
• Cap has to be held in reserve for IR replacements. Also, if Gutekunst's shuffling of the bottom of the roster in-season continues, add a little for dead cap. $3 mil would be a prudent minimal number.

Now we're at $33.2 mil to fill out the roster and maintain a minimum reserve before considering FAs.

But if you spend it all down to the $3 mil in reserve, and you'd like to extend Clark and Martinez before the year is out, you will not have the cap to do that. Make the necessary subtractions for prorated signing bonuses allocated to 2018 for those guys, something like $6 mil, maybe more depending on what Clark commands.

In "tear it down" mode, you could pick up additiona cap space with the following cuts but with more holes to fill:

• Perry: $3.3 mil
• Bulaga: $6.8 mil
• Daniels (in his 2019 contract year): $8.5 mil

There is a long way to go to get to a championship caliber roster with that $47.5 in projected cap space when you consider the list of 42 players under contract at $152 mil for 2019. My prescription is to target 2020 by concentrating spending on a couple of talented second contract free agents at positions of need who, of course, will be quite expensive. Mack money on one player wouldn't and won't fix what is broken.

Gutekunst was headed in this direction, allegedly in the bidding for Allen Robinson and Mack, though I doubt the Mack interest got very far once the costs were revealed, while also making a restricted free agent offer for Fuller. Any one of these signings would have altered other free agent moves, cuts and the draft.

Whether talking about a contract like Graham's or going out and signing some 30 year old guy on the downside of his career, let alone one with an injury history like Earl Thomas (a name that keeps popping up), is throwing good money after bad in an attempt to back and fill into a championship caliber roster. That doesn't work unless you've already stacked drafts, have decent depth for injury coverage and rotation, and are looking to back and fill a couple of holes or add some missing impact component. Those 42 players under contract for 2019 do not come close.

If McCarthy is going to be canned it should happen pretty quickly after the end of the season. Bringing in a new head coach I would take as an acknowlegment that one more year of draft and FA is not going to fix what's broken.

Um...that was a lot to read. Waiting until 2020 will not suffice. Green Bay has stockplied draft picks for 2019, its time to use them wisely.

McCarthy will be gone after this season, especially if Green Bay looses to Chicago. Dumping Perry and Bulaga (both pre-June 1st cuts) is worth it if you can supplement their production in the draft and free agency, which Green Bay can. I wouldn't cut Daniels. However, I would approach him about restructuring.

I wouldn't extend Martinez right away, but I would consider signing Clark a year ahead. He is a premium player at important position on the defense.

If you look at my list starting this thread, the target free agents I listed are between 25-29 years of age. They're vets, but they are also young. I think the best bet is to grow a team that will progress under Rodgers, similar to the New Orleans Saints model.

With a growing run game, and hopefully improved defense, Aaron Rodgers won't have to play superhero every game.

New coach, better players, and definitely a new strength and conditioning staff will work wonders.