Free Agent Signings for Packers or Elsewhere...

[Deleted member 6794]

One year deal worth up to 4.65 million depending on achieving incentives. Pack could've used this guy. I kept saying...
...and kept saying...

As I've mentioned in a different thread I'm fine with not offering Brown that kind of money.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm fine with waiting until the rosters are set entering the season to make a final evaluation of the Packers defense but there's no denying the pickings are getting extremely thin in free agency, Thompson is extremely reluctant to trade a pick for a player and the defense has currently gotten even worse compared to last season.

That will once again leave the draft as the only method to improve that side of the ball. With several holes to fill I don't feel comfortable about the direction the defense is headed for next season at all.

Randall and Rollins didn't physically look the same in 2016 compared to their rookie season but unfortunately both of them have struggled without a veteran #1 cornerback on the field dating back to two years ago as well. Simply relying on both of them bouncing back in a big way is a huge risk.



True, but not worth more than $10 million a season though.



PFF rated Hightower as the second best pass rushing inside linebacker last season.

I don't understand the premise that our defense is currently worse than last year's unless you think that Daniels, Matthews and Burnett are going to be declining players this year and that Francois is not going to be as good as Guion. Everyone else on the defense should be progressing and we've added House to compete for a starting CB position. Shields doesn't count at all in this equation. He only played a few series in 16. I expect Matthews and the CB's to be healthier this year and I expect Clark to be a significantly better player than in 16.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't understand the premise that our defense is currently worse than last year's unless you think that Daniels, Matthews and Burnett are going to be declining players this year and that Francois is not going to be as good as Guion. Everyone else on the defense should be progressing and we've added House to compete for a starting CB position. Shields doesn't count at all in this equation. He only played a few series in 16. I expect Matthews and the CB's to be healthier this year and I expect Clark to be a significantly better player than in 16.

You forgot to mention the loss of both Peppers and Hyde. While I'm not sure the defense can be considered worse, when you factor getting everyone healthy and hopeful progression of a lot of young players. I also don't see any pieces added that make what was a below average defense any better. TT and the Packers have to be hoping for a lot of growth from Randall, Rollins, Clark, Ryan, Martinez, Elliott and Fackrell to have pretty much stuck with the hand they were holding at the end of 2016.

All that said, if the defense doesn't improve from 2016, I don't see a Super Bowl in the immediate future of the Packers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't understand the premise that our defense is currently worse than last year's unless you think that Daniels, Matthews and Burnett are going to be declining players this year and that Francois is not going to be as good as Guion. Everyone else on the defense should be progressing and we've added House to compete for a starting CB position. Shields doesn't count at all in this equation. He only played a few series in 16. I expect Matthews and the CB's to be healthier this year and I expect Clark to be a significantly better player than in 16.

There's a lot of hoping and expecting going on within your take of the defense.

Let's take an objective look at what happened this offseason though. The team lost Peppers, Jones and Hyde while adding Jean Francois and House on that side of the ball.

Those moves result in Fackrell and Elliott being the main backups at edge rusher and the team still in need of a #1 cornerback while having to start three out of House, Randall, Rollins and Gunter.

While the unit was terrible defending the pass last season I don't understand why anyone would feel comfortable about the talent level on defense. Aside of hoping and expecting of course.

 

[Half Empty]

One year deal worth up to 4.65 million depending on achieving incentives. Pack could've used this guy. I kept saying...
...and kept saying...

To be fair, your offer of three years @ $3.33 mil might have had a lot more supporters here than the contract he apparently did get.

 

[PikeBadger]

You forgot to mention the loss of both Peppers and Hyde. While I'm not sure the defense can be considered worse, when you factor getting everyone healthy and hopeful progression of a lot of young players. I also don't see any pieces added that make what was a below average defense any better. TT and the Packers have to be hoping for a lot of growth from Randall, Rollins, Clark, Ryan, Martinez, Elliott and Fackrell to have pretty much stuck with the hand they were holding at the end of 2016.

All that said, if the defense doesn't improve from 2016, I don't see a Super Bowl in the immediate future of the Packers.

I think all 7 of the guys you mentioned will improve. To what degree and how quickly remains to be seen. I think they will be better players in November than they are in September which means I suppose it will be very noisy in here the first half of the season and the Fire Capers and Fire Thompson threads will remain heavily in play.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think all 7 of the guys you mentioned will improve.

History suggests otherwise but of course you keep ignoring the facts.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think all 7 of the guys you mentioned will improve. To what degree and how quickly remains to be seen. I think they will be better players in November than they are in September which means I suppose it will be very noisy in here the first half of the season and the Fire Capers and Fire Thompson threads will remain heavily in play.

I hope you are right, but it's asking a lot out of 7 guys to all stay healthy as well as improve. My disappointment so far this offseason is TT not offsetting or hedging his bet/reliance on this happening, by signing a 1 #CB and mid grade OLB. In not doing that, we are once again entering a draft that will probably have to focus on immediate defensive needs and the offense will once again be asked to rely on Aaron Rodgers and the starters that can remain healthy. What once was a pretty deep group on offense is starting to look a bit thin for 2017 and beyond.

 

[PikeBadger]

I hope you are right, but it's asking a lot out of 7 guys to all stay healthy as well as improve. My disappointment so far this offseason is TT not offsetting or hedging his bet/reliance on this happening, by signing a 1 #CB and mid grade OLB. In not doing that, we are once again entering a draft that will probably have to focus on immediate defensive needs and the offense will once again be asked to rely on Aaron Rodgers and the starters that can remain healthy. What once was a pretty deep group on offense is starting to look a bit thin for 2017 and beyond.

Do you think Thompson is done making moves outside of the draft? I expect more to happen..... in the next 5 months.

 

[PikeBadger]

I hope you are right, but it's asking a lot out of 7 guys to all stay healthy as well as improve. My disappointment so far this offseason is TT not offsetting or hedging his bet/reliance on this happening, by signing a 1 #CB and mid grade OLB. In not doing that, we are once again entering a draft that will probably have to focus on immediate defensive needs and the offense will once again be asked to rely on Aaron Rodgers and the starters that can remain healthy. What once was a pretty deep group on offense is starting to look a bit thin for 2017 and beyond.

I'd be thrilled with 5 out of 7 staying healthy AND improving. I'd add Lowry to that list as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do you think Thompson is done making moves outside of the draft? I expect more to happen..... in the next 5 months.

Hope, Expect or Think? I still have hope that TT finds a way to address the CB position and even the Guard position, outside of the draft. However, I don't expect him to, especially since his options at this point are very slim and when there were options, he sat pat. What I think TT will do in the next 5 months are moves like Ego Ferguson and Derek Hart, rounding out his camp roster.

 

[Mondio]

I expect Clark and Lowery to make strides. Bigger for Clark, but Lowery will be a pretty good rotation guy I think starting this season. I expect Randall or Rollins to take a big step. It's certainly possible for both, i think Randall needs to be coached more than anything or move his position to where he can play the ball and not the man, but either way he needs to play within the system and not get lazy and do what he wants.

I see no reason why Martinez won't improve. He was doing well and was learning from the mistakes he did make while taking on a huge role in the defense as a rookie. He's physically capable, and he's shown he is intelligent and likes the work. I bet on those guys improving. Fackerell I think will be just a situational rusher. He lacks size to hold up, i think , down after down, but he is long and has good leverage. He's going to be that edge guy that can get to a spot and bend to gain leverage and get to the QB. I don't see him being a huge part of this defense, but he was coming along and then was out with injury. a year of NFL experience can do wonders. I'm not sure where is improvement will be on a scale. I'm not expecting world beater in year 2, but I can see situational benefits for him.

I was excited by Elliot early, but that has waned over the past season or 2. He's had time to take off if he was going to, so he's going to be about what we've seen. I'm not expecting more. Just a situational guy. Not great, but not terrible either.
I do think Brice will be more involved too.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you think Thompson is done making moves outside of the draft? I expect more to happen..... in the next 5 months.

It's possible that Thompson will make some transactions outside of the draft before the start of the season to improve the defense. With that being uncertain though it only makes sense to evaluate the moves that have been made on that side of the ball up until now and overall I'm disappointed in those.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was excited by Elliot early, but that has waned over the past season or 2.

That should work as a warning when relying on a ton of young players to all improve significantly within next season.

 

[McKnowledge]

As I've mentioned in a different thread I'm fine with not offering Brown that kind of money.

I would've gave Zach Brown that money in a heartbeat. Its a one year deal. He fulfills a need. Packers have the money. High reward/low risk. Its a one year deal!!!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That should work as a warning when relying on a ton of young players to all improve significantly within next season.

That is where I am at right now too, over reliance on young and/or inexperienced players. We saw what happens when you do that at CB last year and for several years at ILB and TE. Nothing wrong with young, up and coming talent, but if they are forced into a starting role, before they are ready, the results can cost you some games. I'm not going to dig up the numbers (snap counts), but it was very apparent last year that the Packers defense, due mostly to injuries, was forced into over reliance on inexperienced players. I was hoping that wouldn't be the same for 2017, but maybe that experience they were forced into last season, will make them better players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would've gave Zach Brown that money in a heartbeat. Its a one year deal. He fulfills a need. Packers have the money. High reward/low risk. Its a one year deal!!!

I think the Packers are pretty high on Ryan and Martinez, so spending that kind of money on a 3rd ILB probably wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense with trying to find snaps for all 3. With as injury prone and inconsistent as Clay Matthews has been, I would have rather seen that money go to a FA OLB.

 

[PackerDNA]

I expect Clark and Lowery to make strides. Bigger for Clark, but Lowery will be a pretty good rotation guy I think starting this season. I expect Randall or Rollins to take a big step. It's certainly possible for both, i think Randall needs to be coached more than anything or move his position to where he can play the ball and not the man, but either way he needs to play within the system and not get lazy and do what he wants.

I see no reason why Martinez won't improve. He was doing well and was learning from the mistakes he did make while taking on a huge role in the defense as a rookie. He's physically capable, and he's shown he is intelligent and likes the work. I bet on those guys improving. Fackerell I think will be just a situational rusher. He lacks size to hold up, i think , down after down, but he is long and has good leverage. He's going to be that edge guy that can get to a spot and bend to gain leverage and get to the QB. I don't see him being a huge part of this defense, but he was coming along and then was out with injury. a year of NFL experience can do wonders. I'm not sure where is improvement will be on a scale. I'm not expecting world beater in year 2, but I can see situational benefits for him.

I was excited by Elliot early, but that has waned over the past season or 2. He's had time to take off if he was going to, so he's going to be about what we've seen. I'm not expecting more. Just a situational guy. Not great, but not terrible either.
I do think Brice will be more involved too.

Clark- potential to be disruptive, good to very good. Good compliment to Daniels.
Lowery- won't be a star, but can make plays as a very good rotational guy.
Randall and Rollins- I'll settle for some improvement and not being liabilities, but these guys will never be stars or '#1" type CB's.
Martinez- a limited guy; smarts and work ethic will make him serviceable, but nothing special.
Fackrell- the most intriguing of your list. If he can add enough weight and strength, can be a disruptive edge rusher.
Elliott- the defense's answer to Barclay. He'll never do anything, but he'll be here every year.
Brice- jury is out. Great speed, big hitter. But can he learn the nuances of the game and improve his hands?

 

[PikeBadger]

It's possible that Thompson will make some transactions outside of the draft before the start of the season to improve the defense. With that being uncertain though it only makes sense to evaluate the moves that have been made on that side of the ball up until now and overall I'm disappointed in those.

Moves we've seen so far are two guys to shore up the DL in light of Guion's absence again and an outside corner to allow at least one of Randall/Rollins/Gunter to play inside. No moves yet to replace Peppers or Jones. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Edge rusher signed or perhaps another guy for depth at ILB or a Guard/Center to compete with Murphy and Patrick. Could even see a RB brought in on a cheap contract. Lots of possibilities, plenty of cap room, plenty of unemployed free agents and plenty of time.

 

[PackerDNA]

Moves we've seen so far are two guys to shore up the DL in light of Guion's absence again and an outside corner to allow at least one of Randall/Rollins/Gunter to play inside. No moves yet to replace Peppers or Jones. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Edge rusher signed or perhaps another guy for depth at ILB or a Guard/Center to compete with Murphy and Patrick. Could even see a RB brought in on a cheap contract. Lots of possibilities, plenty of cap room, plenty of unemployed free agents and plenty of time.

We hear this every year.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[RRyder]

Clark- potential to be disruptive, good to very good. Good compliment to Daniels.
Lowery- won't be a star, but can make plays as a very good rotational guy.
Randall and Rollins- I'll settle for some improvement and not being liabilities, but these guys will never be stars or '#1" type CB's.
Martinez- a limited guy; smarts and work ethic will make him serviceable, but nothing special.
Fackrell- the most intriguing of your list. If he can add enough weight and strength, can be a disruptive edge rusher.
Elliott- the defense's answer to Barclay. He'll never do anything, but he'll be here every year.
Brice- jury is out. Great speed, big hitter. But can he learn the nuances of the game and improve his hands?

Solid assessment. I'm not far off all though I'm not nearly as intrigued by Fackrell as you seem to be but I'm also much higher on Clark. I love his potential. Also come on..... Don't insult Elliot like that . That's low.

But let's be honest. This D's success rides and dies on Randall and Rollins bouncing back much the same way Adams did last year. I'm more hopefull for Rollins and understand why people aren't as high on either and would've preferred for TT to hedge his bets but as far as this debate goes we don't need big steps forward from all the young guys on D. Or even just most. It's really just two. Problem is we're now hoping for a "specific" two to improve rather then a "random" 4 or 5 out of 7.... I'll admit I'd probably prefer to be banking on the latter but it is what it is considering I wouldn't have dropped the amount of coin it would've taken to lure one of the top corners here either.

(Should've mentioned Spriggs and Murphy also due to me not being wor rid about replacing Lang due to us drafting not one but two big bodies on the Oline last year.... And also because it's a Guard being replaced)

 

[PikeBadger]

Solid assessment. I'm not far off all though I'm not nearly as intrigued by Fackrell as you seem to be but I'm also much higher on Clark. I love his potential. Also come on..... Don't insult Elliot like that . That's low.

But let's be honest. This D's success rides and dies on Randall and Rollins bouncing back much the same way Adams did last year. I'm more hopefull for Rollins and understand why people aren't as high on either and would've preferred for TT to hedge his bets but as far as this debate goes we don't need big steps forward from all the young guys on D. Or even just most. It's really just two. Problem is we're now hoping for a "specific" two to improve rather then a "random" 4 or 5 out of 7.... I'll admit I'd probably prefer to be banking on the latter but it is what it is considering I wouldn't have dropped the amount of coin it would've taken to lure one of the top corners here either.

(Should've mentioned Spriggs and Murphy also due to me not being wor rid about replacing Lang due to us drafting not one but two big bodies on the Oline last year.... And also because it's a Guard being replaced)

I'm not that big into Fackrell either. I think both he and Lowry could be effective role players but neither is likely to be a star. I think Clark has enough upside to be a lynchpin on this defense.

 

[PackerDNA]

Solid assessment. I'm not far off all though I'm not nearly as intrigued by Fackrell as you seem to be but I'm also much higher on Clark. I love his potential. Also come on..... Don't insult Elliot like that . That's low.

But let's be honest. This D's success rides and dies on Randall and Rollins bouncing back much the same way Adams did last year. I'm more hopefull for Rollins and understand why people aren't as high on either and would've preferred for TT to hedge his bets but as far as this debate goes we don't need big steps forward from all the young guys on D. Or even just most. It's really just two. Problem is we're now hoping for a "specific" two to improve rather then a "random" 4 or 5 out of 7.... I'll admit I'd probably prefer to be banking on the latter but it is what it is considering I wouldn't have dropped the amount of coin it would've taken to lure one of the top corners here either.

(Should've mentioned Spriggs and Murphy also due to me not being wor rid about replacing Lang due to us drafting not one but two big bodies on the Oline last year.... And also because it's a Guard being replaced)

Thanks, RRyder. You make several great points, but the two biggest/best are the ones I bolded.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Why has no one signed Hankins? Why is he a free agent to begin with? Plenty of teaMs need defensive line help.

DeAndre Levy is another guy that I am waiting to see signed (by someone). His past 2 years of injuries must be a major concern. The Lions cut him and only saved $1.19M by doing so, while still having $7.2M of dead cap, so that is probably telling us quite a bit of what they thought of his future.

Depending on his health, something around vet minimum with no guarantees might get him back to his home State to finish out his career. Could add some nice depth and veteran leadership to the Linebacking group.

 

[PackerDNA]

Levy would be a great pickup- if he's still Levy. but maybe the injuries have taken too much from him, hence the apparent lack of interest.