Free Agency: Packers Should Green Bay Pursue?

[GleefulGary]

If they spend their first round pick on Jonathan Taylor, I quit.

Quit what, you ask? I don't know yet. But believe you me-- I'll quit.

Oh I won't quit. I will just begin.

I will begin the rage posting. The anger and strife. MY TERROR WILL START.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

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Definitely would have preferred Robinson.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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Definitely would have preferred Robinson.

My guess is that Robinson wanted more than the Packers wanted to spend and Funchess was a better value and/or fit. We won't know until the numbers come out.

 

[Dantés]

Demarcus Robinson played 70% (tied for 2nd most of all KC pass catchers) of the offensive snaps last year for one of the most prolific passing offenses in the league and managed a mere 32/449/4. That's pretty pathetic.

Funchess is not an amazing FA acquisition, but he was a lot more productive than that in two years in a much less productive offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Funchess is not an amazing FA acquisition, but he was a lot more productive than that in two years in a much less productive offense.

Great point.

Again, depending on the contract, I think this is another Kirksey like signing. Gute felt that he was not only addressing a positions of great need, on a limited budget, but in the process getting a player for a lot less than that players price would have been had they both been coming off of a non-injury season. I'm not a doctor, but I don't view either players 2019 injuries as ones that will hold them back or prevent them from returning to what they did when healthy. In Kirksey, I see a young ascending ILB, that has a higher window than Martinez. In Funchess, I see a young WR, that will probably never be a Pro Bowler, but if he and Rodgers can mesh, could be a 60+ catches, 800+ yds and 6+ TD's kind of WR.

EDIT and add to post: I just found this quote from Kirksey and why he chose Green Bay, love it.

“I just felt like a winning presence,” Kirksey recently told Matt Schneidman of The Athletic . “I went to the University of Iowa and it kind of reminded me of that, like the atmosphere. The town had similarities, and also Mike Pettine. I had a great relationship with him. Just seeing how he coached then, he drafted me. It just felt at home. It felt like it was the right decision. Sometimes you can’t stray away from your gut feeling. That’s what I went with was my gut feeling and also just a winning organization. The culture there, I wanted to be a part of.”

I read something like that and no offense to the Cleveland Browns, but I cant help but wonder how a players attitude and motivation changes when they go from a team like Cleveland to a team like the Packers.

 

[Dantés]

Great point.

Again, depending on the contract, I think this is another Kirksey like signing. Gute felt that he was not only addressing a positions of great need, on a limited budget, but in the process getting a player for a lot less than that players price would have been had they both been coming off of a non-injury season. I'm not a doctor, but I don't view either players 2019 injuries as ones that will hold them back or prevent them from returning to what they did when healthy. In Kirksey, I see a young ascending ILB, that has a higher window than Martinez. In Funchess, I see a WR, that will probably never be a Pro Bowler, but if he and Rodgers can mesh, could be a 60+ catches, 800+ yds and 6+ TD's kind of WR.

It's also important to realize that Funchess was playing in an offense that inherently limited pass catching production.

In 2017, when he had 63/840/8, Newton only threw for 3302 and 22. So he accounted for 25% of the passing yards, and 36% of the passing scores.

He was equally as productive in 2018 on a per game basis, but injury only allowed for a full snap allotment in 10 games.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's also important to realize that Funchess was playing in an offense that inherently limited pass catching production.

In 2017, when he had 63/840/8, Newton only threw for 3302 and 22. So he accounted for 25% of the passing yards, and 36% of the passing scores.

He was equally as productive in 2018 on a per game basis, but injury only allowed for a full snap allotment in 10 games.

So if you apply those 2017 percentages to the Packers offense and Aaron Rodgers. He would have had 1000 yds and 9+ TD's in the 2019 Packer offense, which wasn't at its peak. I can live with that.

 

[hasamikun]

Yeah I don’t think Cam was treated unfairly by the Panthers. First of all, it’s a business and he couldn’t produce due to injury and age. Second, almost all of the “running” QBs have a shorter shelf life - RBIII, Vick, Vince Young, and a few others. They do great for 3 to 5 years, and then the pounding adds up. It will happen to Lamar Jackson eventually, although he seems to be a better passer than any of the guys I mentioned.

The Panthers released a statement saying that Cam is allowed to pursue a trade, which made it sound like Cam is the one wanting out. Dude didnt even know about this until he read the social media post. Shortly after the Panthers released a Thank you video for him. I dont like the guy but the Panthers did him dirty. That being said I agree that his career will be over which is a damn shame. Fricking Tyrod Taylor, Cam Newton in worse, got a contract and a former MVP doesnt. The man is in good shape, healthy and still has some fuel in his tank but team seem to judge him for his SB press conference.

No, I get it. I just think most posters on here are so hell bent on a first round receiver that they would rather Settle for the 5th or 6th one off the board Rather than The top RB. To me that’s crazy. I’m for drafting BPA in the first. Hoping for 0 or D line but would be more than willing to pull the trigger on D’Andre Swift or Taylor. Especially if Jones has another good year and another team throws crazy money at him.

I dont see neccessity in drafting a RB high except they are generational talents like Saquon or Zeke and in this draft no RB is. The value just isnt there in the round and the last couple drafts show exactly that. You will always get a better value with drafting a RB in the mid rounds, especially when you pick at #30. And in this draft there wont be a RB being BPA at 30, no way this happens. WR, OT or ILB will be BPA at 30 , maybe even CB depending on the run at WR and OTs. But give me RB Evans from App state in 4th or 5th round. Dude is a beast imo.

 

[tynimiller]

The Panthers released a statement saying that Cam is allowed to pursue a trade, which made it sound like Cam is the one wanting out. Dude didnt even know about this until he read the social media post. Shortly after the Panthers released a Thank you video for him. I dont like the guy but the Panthers did him dirty. That being said I agree that his career will be over which is a damn shame. Fricking Tyrod Taylor, Cam Newton in worse, got a contract and a former MVP doesnt. The man is in good shape, healthy and still has some fuel in his tank but team seem to judge him for his SB press conference.

Not gonna lie if I'm the Jags or even the Chargers I've already scheduled an interview. Shoot...if Aaron made it known he was retiring after this year, I'd not be totally against the Packers taking a glance at him, I believe an athletic QB with experience is the perfect bridge quarterback for a year or two transition for a team in a rebuild but not overhaul.

 

[Mondio]

The Panthers released a statement saying that Cam is allowed to pursue a trade, which made it sound like Cam is the one wanting out. Dude didnt even know about this until he read the social media post. Shortly after the Panthers released a Thank you video for him. I dont like the guy but the Panthers did him dirty. That being said I agree that his career will be over which is a damn shame. Fricking Tyrod Taylor, Cam Newton in worse, got a contract and a former MVP doesnt. The man is in good shape, healthy and still has some fuel in his tank but team seem to judge him for his SB press conference.

.

We don't know what Cam was told before his release, one thing I do know, his past history shows he will play the victim. This league is starved for QB's with half the teams needing someone better than they have. If he had anything left worth using, a team will. If he doesn't, they won't. if they don't think his level of play is worth it it's either because what comes along with the level of production canceling it out, or he's used up and his shoulder is shot.

Guys get signed and they've beaten women on camera, teams don't care if Cam acts like a baby if he can still play. There is the entire offseason, TC, and preseason to sign with a team. You're not going to find a much better time to be a FA in this league than Cam is right now.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If they spend their first round pick on Jonathan Taylor, I quit.

Quit what, you ask? I don't know yet. But believe you me-- I'll quit.

Yeah, I mean unless anyone thinks Funchess is a solution, #30 is going to be a WR. The only thing that might change that is if Queen or Murray fall. It won’t be a RB. Not in Round One.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Oh I won't quit. I will just begin.

I will begin the rage posting. The anger and strife. MY TERROR WILL START.

A reign of terror from a guy called Gleeful? Is that some kind of oxymoron? Anyway, you’ll have plenty of company, including me. Get the torches and pitchforks ready.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We don't know what Cam was told before his release, one thing I do know, his past history shows he will play the victim. This league is starved for QB's with half the teams needing someone better than they have. If he had anything left worth using, a team will. If he doesn't, they won't. if they don't think his level of play is worth it it's either because what comes along with the level of production canceling it out, or he's used up and his shoulder is shot.

Guys get signed and they've beaten women on camera, teams don't care if Cam acts like a baby if he can still play. There is the entire offseason, TC, and preseason to sign with a team. You're not going to find a much better time to be a FA in this league than Cam is right now.

All good points. And he is kind of a whiner. All that flash and fancy clothes are great when you’re tearing it up. Not so much when you can’t generate interest in a league starving for real starting QBs. Personally I think Cam is done, unless his ego lets him accept a backup role.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not gonna lie if I'm the Jags or even the Chargers I've already scheduled an interview. Shoot...if Aaron made it known he was retiring after this year, I'd not be totally against the Packers taking a glance at him, I believe an athletic QB with experience is the perfect bridge quarterback for a year or two transition for a team in a rebuild but not overhaul.

I agree with you - the question is how much physical damage has been done? Big, fast, athletic QBs who do a lot of running have a shorter shelf life. Cam’s been around a while and has absorbed a lot of hits. If he does have something in the tank though then, yeah, he’d be a great transitional QB for a team rebuilding.

 

[mradtke66]

I dont see neccessity in drafting a RB high except they are generational talents like Saquon or Zeke and in this draft no RB is. The value just isnt there in the round and the last couple drafts show exactly that. You will always get a better value with drafting a RB in the mid rounds, especially when you pick at #30.

I generally devalue running backs and agree with this school of thought.

That said, there is one detail that makes taking a running back late in the 1st less stupid than it was: the 5th year option.

In the extreme case, a team could draft a back in the 1st, take advantage of the 5th year option, franchise him for 1 year, and then cut him loose. You've gotten him for 6 year and never had to give him a big contract.

Is that something the packers should seriously consider? Probably not--I don't think their system will chew up backs with 25+ carries a game. But it's something that should be considered. That 5th year option is huge for teams and it changes the math a little bit.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I generally devalue running backs and agree with this school of thought.

That said, there is one detail that makes taking a running back late in the 1st less stupid than it was: the 5th year option.

In the extreme case, a team could draft a back in the 1st, take advantage of the 5th year option, franchise him for 1 year, and then cut him loose. You've gotten him for 6 year and never had to give him a big contract.

Is that something the packers should seriously consider? Probably not--I don't think their system will chew up backs with 25+ carries a game. But it's something that should be considered. That 5th year option is huge for teams and it changes the math a little bit.

Interesting, thanks. Is the fifth year option only available for first round picks?

 

[mradtke66]

Interesting, thanks. Is the fifth year option only available for first round picks?

That is correct.

It's also why you have teams a little more willing to jump back into the late 1st to get a second player with that first year option. Potentially overpaying (slightly) in terms of draft capital to do so.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

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Dennard, the 2013 Jim Thorpe Winner and the 24th Overall Pick back in 2014 out of Michigan State:

5'11, 200lbs
4.42 '40

STRENGTHS
Outstanding size with a well-distributed frame, knotty calves and thin ankles. Good press strength. Controlled, efficient pedal. Good competitive playing speed. Transitions cleanly in man-off coverage. Very good eyes, anticipation and reactive quickness. Good pattern recognition -- sorts out what he sees quickly. Clings to the hip pocket of receivers down the field. Swift speed turn. Likeable personality. Very accountable leader by example. Brings intensity to the field and plays with urgency. Highly confident and competitive.

BOTTOM LINE
Big, strong, athletic, instinctive press-man corner who elevated his game as a senior. Is deceptively fast and has the desirable size to match up with big receivers.

PFF Grades:
2014 - 73.6
2015 - 68.6
2016 - 59.8
2017 - 77.4
2018 - 68.6
2019 - 72.2

He was a little underwhelming for a 1st Rounder but he played 6 years with the Bengals so I can overlook that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

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Dennard, the 2013 Jim Thorpe Winner and the 24th Overall Pick back in 2014 out of Michigan State:

5'11, 200lbs
4.42 '40



PFF Grades:
2014 - 73.6
2015 - 68.6
2016 - 59.8
2017 - 77.4
2018 - 68.6
2019 - 72.2

He was a little underwhelming for a 1st Rounder but he played 6 years with the Bengals so I can overlook that.

Any idea what he’s looking for as far a comp/years?

 

[Dantés]

Any idea what he’s looking for as far a comp/years?

The original deal that was reported was 3/13.5/6.

My understanding is that Dennard is primarily a slot corner, where the Packers have a glaring need.

They should be in on him.

 

[XPack]

I believe that $8 million in cap space is worth more than having stability at center.

Can't believe you typed that out, Cap! Unstable center would directly disrupt the QB and that should be avoided at all costs. factoring in cost of replacement Center, it certainly is not a trade I would be supportive of!

 

[Pkrjones]

The original deal that was reported was 3/13.5/6.

My understanding is that Dennard is primarily a slot corner, where the Packers have a glaring need.

They should be in on him.

Besides being a slot corner Dennard is also strong in run support. For $4.5Mil/yr. I would think there's room under the cap and on the roster to shore up the D. That might mean Tramon is done with the Packers, though, as Williams was making $5Mil/yr. on his old deal.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I mean, yeah, if you replace that REALLY good 24 year old with a couple of merely good players at other positions of need.

It's a terrible idea for the Packers to get rid of Clark. They will need to create cap space in a different way to improve other positions of need or successfully address them in the draft.

It will happen to Lamar Jackson eventually, although he seems to be a better passer than any of the guys I mentioned.

I'm not convinced Jackson is a better passer than any of the other quarterbacks you mentioned.

No, I get it. I just think most posters on here are so hell bent on a first round receiver that they would rather Settle for the 5th or 6th one off the board Rather than The top RB. To me that’s crazy. I’m for drafting BPA in the first. Hoping for 0 or D line but would be more than willing to pull the trigger on D’Andre Swift or Taylor. Especially if Jones has another good year and another team throws crazy money at him.

Aaron Jones being a fifth round pick should serve as evidence there's absolutely no need to spend a first round pick on a running back.

As a side note, teams have to consider position of need when making a draft selection. Best value available is the way to go.

I see your point. That’s part of the problem drafting so late in the first round. Even in a draft that is stocked at a position (in this case WR), it’s possible that 5 or 6 guys are taken first. I don’t think it’s wise to take a 2nd or 3rd round talent in the first round just because there is a need.

I agree that there's no reason to reach for a prospect based on need. Running back can definitely be addressed after the first three rounds of the draft though.

That being said I agree that his career will be over which is a damn shame. Fricking Tyrod Taylor, Cam Newton in worse, got a contract and a former MVP doesnt. The man is in good shape, healthy and still has some fuel in his tank but team seem to judge him for his SB press conference.

I guess Newton's asking price might end up being a reason no team signs him this offseason.

That said, there is one detail that makes taking a running back late in the 1st less stupid than it was: the 5th year option.

In the extreme case, a team could draft a back in the 1st, take advantage of the 5th year option, franchise him for 1 year, and then cut him loose. You've gotten him for 6 year and never had to give him a big contract.

At this point a running back selected late in the first round would be paid close to $6 million on the fifth year option and $12.5 million while being franchised. In my opinion that doesn't justify spending a first rounder on the position by any means.

Can't believe you typed that out, Cap! Unstable center would directly disrupt the QB and that should be avoided at all costs. factoring in cost of replacement Center, it certainly is not a trade I would be supportive of!

In my opinion there wasn't any drop-off in performance with Patrick taking over for Linsley last season. Therefore I don't see the need to retain Linsley considering the Packers could save significant cap space by releasing him.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It's a terrible idea for the Packers to get rid of Clark. They will need to create cap space in a different way to improve other positions of need or successfully address them in the draft.

I'm sorry but this comment allows zero room for context. Let's see what his contract is before we decide it's a terrible idea. If he's asking for an average of $16m+ per year (what the top DTs are making) then I don't think he's worth it. Sorry, but this team has too many holes to count on spending that amount of money on a guy who is AWESOME at his position but isn't as valuable by himself as a combination of say, Cameron Hayward and Marvin Jones would be (two guys who combine for $17m per year).

 

[Dantés]

I'm sorry but this comment allows zero room for context. Let's see what his contract is before we decide it's a terrible idea. If he's asking for an average of $16m+ per year (what the top DTs are making) then I don't think he's worth it. Sorry, but this team has too many holes to count on spending that amount of money on a guy who is AWESOME at his position but isn't as valuable by himself as a combination of say, Cameron Hayward and Marvin Jones would be (two guys who combine for $17m per year).

The problem with this logic is that you're using contracts that were signed in 2016 (Jones) and 2015 (Heyward) as a combined comparison of a deal that would be signed in 2020 or 2021.

The cap was 143 million in 2015 and 155 million in 2016. It's currently 198 million and projects to about 207 million next off-season.

Jones' cap figure was 5.2% of the total cap when he signed, and Heyward's was 6.4%, for a combined 11.6% of the total salary cap. In 2020 dollars, their combined price tag would be 23M (or 24M next offseason), not 17M.

If you want to actually compare a 17M price tag for Clark to the combination of two players, you need to find guys who were just signed, or do the math and figure out older comps that fit the percentage.

So an accurate comparison would be Michael Pierce and Emmanuel Sanders. Or another would be Robby Anderson and Quinton Jefferson. If I have to pick between Clark and a comparison of that caliber, it isn't even a question.