For the sake of argument...

[PikeBadger]

I meant Gregory out of Nebraska. Sorry guys for the confusion, but it's good to know some of you can talk about a bad movie from the 1940's so eloquently on a football forum.

Gregory is not as quick as a rabbit. Melvin Gordon blew his doors off for 4 bills.

 

[PikeBadger]

Never been to Turkey--- Have you ever watched the movie Harvey? I have a friend who was in a Thai prison for 15 months. He is writing an article now

Yes, I have seen the movie Harvey, more than once. I've been through Dayton. Never been to Thailand. I was in a Panamanian courtroom. I did not write an article about it.

 

[Dan115]

I

Yes, I have seen the movie Harvey, more than once. I've been through Dayton. Never been to Thailand. I was in a Panamanian courtroom. I did not write an article about it.

am on an island now off the coast of Pattaya.

 

[Dan115]

Elwood Blues? He lives at 1066 W. Addison.

Elwood P. Dowd.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Harold isn't a first round talent though and Thompson shouldn't trade up for him or select him at all.

I'd like to hear the rationale behind that statement.

As 4-3 defensive end, I'd heartily agree. With his hand in the dirt he looks tentative and sluggish.

Standing up, the guy looks like the real deal...burst, lean and motor. He has NFL speed as the basis to learn the passing game.

I wouldn't trade up for him, but he looks like a promising 25-50 prospect.

He's not my first choice, but depending on who's on the board and where the Packers stand with NTs at the time of the draft, he might be the best choice.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd like to hear the rationale behind that statement.

As 4-3 defensive end, I'd heartily agree. With his hand in the dirt he looks tentative and sluggish.

Standing up, the guy looks like the real deal...burst, lean and motor. He has NFL speed as the basis to learn the passing game.

I wouldn't trade up for him, but he looks like a promising 25-50 prospect.

He's not my first choice, but depending on who's on the board and where the Packers stand with NTs at the time of the draft, he might be the best choice.

I expect Harold to be either a late first or an early second round pick. What I was trying to point out is that he's not as talented as Beasley and therefore not a top 10 pick, so there's no reason for the Packers to trade up to select him (as you know I don't feel the need to draft an OLB in the first round).

Harold is a nice pass rusher but he has troubles disengaging from contact as well as playing in space and coverage.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I expect Harold to be either a late first or an early second round pick. What I was trying to point out is that he's not as talented as Beasley and therefore not a top 10 pick, so there's no reason for the Packers to trade up to select him (as you know I don't feel the need to draft an OLB in the first round).

Harold is a nice pass rusher but he has troubles disengaging from contact as well as playing in space and coverage.

Point taken on the trade-up.

All of the lightweight 3-4 OLBs have trouble disengaging from a decent block in the pass rush. They win on burst, quickness, evasion (swim, lean, hand work), deception (stunts, spins). Watch Matthews sometime (as if that recommendation is even required ). If the OT gets both hands on him off the snap, he's done for that edge rush, though his second effort to underside when the QB steps up and in pursuit can't be underestimated. The same can be said for the run game; he compensates for his size in edge contain by maintaining outside leverage; he's vulnerable to the cutback. you're just not going to see him stand up an OT and slide off. He compensates by being perhaps the best 3-4 OLB in backside pursuit. It's a matter of physics...you're not going to get Peppers-like shedding ability in a 245 lb. athlete.

I don't see where Harold was asked to play in space or coverage that much. From what I've seen he was an elephant in a multi-scheme, sometimes a DE (even in a 3 man front at times) or rushing the passer standing up (where he pops off the tape).

He looks lean at 6'3", 247 and could add some muscle for the run game. He agrees.

It's fairly common for edge rushers to be limited to that role as a rookie. Many were not asked to do much down field in college and have a learning curve.

You just can't teach burst, motor and 4.58 speed...that's an athletic platform to work with.

For what it's worth, Harold's Combine measurements are nearly indistinguishable from Matthews'.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Point taken on the trade-up.

All of the lightweight 3-4 OLBs have trouble disengaging from a decent block in the pass rush. They win on burst, quickness, evasion (swim, lean, hand work), deception (stunts, spins). Watch Matthews sometime (as if that recommendation is even required ). If the OT gets both hands on him off the snap, he's done for that edge rush, though his second effort to underside when the QB steps up and in pursuit can't be underestimated. The same can be said for the run game; he compensates for his size in edge contain by maintaining outside leverage; he's vulnerable to the cutback. you're just not going to see him stand up an OT and slide off. He compensates by being perhaps the best 3-4 OLB in backside pursuit. It's a matter of physics...you're not going to get Peppers-like shedding ability in a 245 lb. athlete.

I don't see where Harold was asked to play in space or coverage that much. From what I've seen he was an elephant in a multi-scheme, sometimes a DE (even in a 3 man front at times) or rushing the passer standing up (where he pops off the tape).

He looks lean at 6'3", 247 and could add some muscle for the run game. He agrees.

It's fairly common for edge rushers to be limited to that role as a rookie. Many were not asked to do much down field in college and have a learning curve.

You just can't teach burst, motor and 4.58 speed...that's an athletic platform to work with.

For what it's worth, Harold's Combine measurements are nearly indistinguishable from Matthews'.

I agree with nearly all of the above, there are some experts (I really don't have any idea about that) questioning Harold's ability to add some more good weight.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree with nearly all of the above, there are some experts (I really don't have any idea about that) questioning Harold's ability to add some more good weight.

It should be a minor concern. After the Combine, Harold set an objective of putting on a few pounds for his Pro Day, with a 255 playing weight target, up from his Combine 247.

I did not see a Pro Day weight to see if there was any progress, but he did 24 lifts...that's an ILB number. And he's only 20 years old.

The Redskins sent a bunch of people to that Pro Day...they have the 37th. pick. I doubt he'll go any lower than that.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'd be ok with a trade-up for either Dupree or Beasley (or Malcolm Brown for that matter, Brown obviously not as high a trade-up).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd be ok with a trade-up for either Dupree or Beasley (or Malcolm Brown for that matter, Brown obviously not as high a trade-up).

Thompson would have to give up way too much to move up for Beasley.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Thompson would have to give up way too much to move up for Beasley.

The scenario was "who would you trade up for", Thompson isn't going to trade up for anyone if we're being realistic. So, in my fantasy world, Beasley slides a little and Thompson trades up.