Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Heyjoe4]

His zone calls on D on short ydage situations is baffling and wrong

Barry never plays his corners at the LOS where they can disrupt routes. Does MLF not see this?

Not that it would have mattered last night. That was an old fashioned *** kicking.

 

[milani]

Agree! What I also can't stand are his schemes where he has two down lineman spread like 3-4 yards apart in the middle of the line and two edge rushers spread even further out. Then he has a slew of DBs 10-20 yards down field who play zone. It's so easy for the offensive line to divide and conquer in the middle of the line, Once the RB is sprung he has like 10 yards of running room before anyone can come up to tackle him. So quick trap running plays/draws/QB draws up the middle or screens iup the middle and in the flats will likely make 8-10 yards at a clip easily. He appears so concerned about not giving up 60-yard passes that he allows his defense to stay on the field for 10 minute drives. That said, if they are lucky enough to produce a third-and-long, you can bet he will go into a prevent defense and give it up anyway. I am absolutely mystified why this guy has a DC job with such a poor track record, and such a glaringly dumb approach to defense. I don't get it.

Good points. This is what wears a defense down, particularly the D line.

 

[gopkrs]

211 yards on the ground. Montgomery or no Montgomery. We invest all that in our defense and we got gashed on the ground like Capers was still here. Of course you wish our offense could reduce the 3 and outs.

I remember Edgar Bennett was a bear killer. Unfortunately, it looks like Montgomery is a Packer killer.

 

[Kahless]

Good points. This is what wears a defense down, particularly the D line.

Yes - any defense would get quickly exhausted and demoralized given Barry's soft schemes. It's always better at times to give up points quickly and let your offense take over, otherwise later in the game your defense collapses from exhaustion even if you are able to hang in there. Look the Lions are a physical team with strong fronts on both sides of the ball....they also have excellent D schemes. But, clearly the Packers need a new D coordinator - it's painfully obvious. 2-3 rushers against 5-6 blockers is a no win situation for any team. A new offensive line coach would also be a good idea ahead of drafting new O-line members and RBs. I know ---the O-Line is an issue==, but Dillion has turned out to be a total bust. Great in college, and I had high hopes (2nd round pick), but he really has no natural instincts to be an NFL RB. Too slow outside, no ability to cut/no field vision, and in the end despite his power, can barely make 2-3 yards a carry. Aaron Jones (5th round pick - yay for him!) is a very talented player, but he can't do it all alone. This team needs OL, other RBs, and new D schemes/approach. I hope they don't waste more picks on useless 1st-2nd round DBs you can pick up off waiver wire in a year or two anyway.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes - any defense would get quickly exhausted and demoralized given Barry's soft schemes. It's always better at times to give up points quickly and let your offense take over, otherwise later in the game your defense collapses from exhaustion even if you are able to hang in there. Look the Lions are a physical team with strong fronts on both sides of the ball....they also have excellent D schemes. But, clearly the Packers need a new D coordinator - it's painfully obvious. 2-3 rushers against 5-6 blockers is a no win situation for any team. A new offensive line coach would also be a good idea ahead of drafting new O-line members and RBs. I know ---the O-Line is an issue==, but Dillion has turned out to be a total bust. Great in college, and I had high hopes (2nd round pick), but he really has no natural instincts to be an NFL RB. Too slow outside, no ability to cut/no field vision, and in the end despite his power, can barely make 2-3 yards a carry. Aaron Jones (5th round pick - yay for him!) is a very talented player, but he can't do it all alone. This team needs OL, other RBs, and new D schemes/approach. I hope they don't waste more picks on useless 1st-2nd round DBs you can pick up off waiver wire in a year or two anyway.

Well said. It's time to rebuild the OL, starting with LT and C. Bakh is for all practical purposes gone, and Myers was a miss. I don't know who coaches the OL, but it seems to be a lack of talent/depth rather than coaching. Too many guys are good but injury prone. It just hasn't worked out so it's time to shore it up starting with the 2024 draft.

And it is time to get serious about adding more RB talent. I'm not sure how much longer Jones has, and as you mention, Dillon is barely just a guy. Big quads will only get. guy so far without vision and at least one or two moves. That actually surprises me because I thought I had seen that in him. Not this year.

As for D schemes and the DC, please, don't get me started.

 

[PackerDNA]

Add Runyan onto the needs to be replaced list.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think that level of carefulness is something for when the team takes the next step.

Right now, I was happy they drove and scored after the first three quarters. Worry about style points later.

I disagree. Never too early to learn.

These are the little things that make teams better, as well as teaching them how to operate when faced with the same situation in the future.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Rodgers wasn't changing that game result yesterday. We all saw where Rodgers is at with bad offensive line play.

I really don't understand how something can be a backfire 4 games into a season that really was probably going to be a 7-9 win season anyways.

I agree with this...is damn near impossible to win a football game when you can't even walk

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree with this...is damn near impossible to win a football game when you can't even walk

If you’re referring to Rodgers’ Achilles tear, walking is next to inpossibly. He can’t lift his toes or his foot, really. It wasn’t that long ago when this injury was initiallly treated with a cast.

But back to these Packers, Th night was a disaster. The team did fight back in the 2H. That’s cold comfort but ok if they all learn from it. They underestimated the Lions.

 

[Pugger]

LaFleur on the run defense: “We’re gonna have to do something different. It’s insane to do the same things over and over again and expect a different result.”.

So.. what's stopping you from doing something different?

No kidding. He does the same damn thing on O. Drives me crazy...

 

[milani]

I agree with this...is damn near impossible to win a football game when you can't even walk

Rodgers would have been hit enough to go out of the game early.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Rodgers would have been hit enough to go out of the game early.

Oh yeah. Rodgers would have been sacked more than Love.

Off topic - how did the Jets expect a much slower Rodgers to survive much less play well behind that OL? Seems the Packers and Jets will be in the OL market next year -draft and FA.

 

[GB psyco]

Until they Sh*tcan Barry, we'll have to embrace the suckage

 

[Heyjoe4]

Until they Sh*tcan Barry, we'll have to embrace the suckage

I don't know about embracing it, but under Barry, "suckage" is a good word to describe what this D produces. Rashan Gary has a non-stop motor, but his greatness in mostly lost on a terribly coached, overrated unit. And it doesn't help that we were led to believe this unit was so good, what with all those first round draft picks.

No, Vic Fangio would have a hard time excelling with this group. Bad at tackling, bad at stopping the run, bad at stopping the pass. What's left?

It also didn't help that most of us, including me, forgot just how bad the Bears are. And the Falcons and Saints won't be in the SB.

Well now that expectations have been (re)set, maybe we can enjoy some good football when it happens. This is an 8-9 or 9-8 team. There will be good moments, and not so good moments.

 

[PackerDNA]

Sure Barry is a big part of the problem. But when does the realization kick in that the overall talent on this unit is overrated.

 

[milani]

Oh yeah. Rodgers would have been sacked more than Love.

Off topic - how did the Jets expect a much slower Rodgers to survive much less play well behind that OL? Seems the Packers and Jets will be in the OL market next year -draft and FA.

Well, when we played the Jets last year it was not their offensive line that hurt us. It was the defensive line of which Rodgers could not escape. I believe the Jets figured their running game would be good enough to open the passing game for their aging leader. Similar to Denver with Peyton and Tampa with Brady.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I don't know about embracing it, but under Barry, "suckage" is a good word to describe what this D produces. Rashan Gary has a non-stop motor, but his greatness in mostly lost on a terribly coached, overrated unit. And it doesn't help that we were led to believe this unit was so good, what with all those first round draft picks.

No, Vic Fangio would have a hard time excelling with this group.

Barry is 90% the problem, not the players. Fun fact though. Fangio's defense so far this year is allowing 23.7 points per game. Barry's is allowing 24 points per game.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Sure Barry is a big part of the problem. But when does the realization kick in that the overall talent on this unit is overrated.

There's no way to make that conclusion until we see a change at DC. How many times around the league have we seen defenses completely turned around by a competent DC? One thing I do know is that we have a ton of speed and athleticism on that side of the ball. It's hard to make clean tackles when the poor scheme causes you to consistently have to scramble to get in position to make tackles. We are constantly chasing guys for tackles and that's a problem with the scheme itself.

 

[milani]

There's no way to make that conclusion until we see a change at DC. How many times around the league have we seen defenses completely turned around by a competent DC? One thing I do know is that we have a ton of speed and athleticism on that side of the ball. It's hard to make clean tackles when the poor scheme causes you to consistently have to scramble to get in position to make tackles. We are constantly chasing guys for tackles and that's a problem with the scheme itself.

We sincerely thought this would be an upgrade over Petine.

 

[Team Ronny]

Well..they did hire the cheapest guy they could find. You get what you pay for. Heck even Brian Flores is making a mediocre viqueens defense look competent!

 

[milani]

There's no way to make that conclusion until we see a change at DC. How many times around the league have we seen defenses completely turned around by a competent DC? One thing I do know is that we have a ton of speed and athleticism on that side of the ball. It's hard to make clean tackles when the poor scheme causes you to consistently have to scramble to get in position to make tackles. We are constantly chasing guys for tackles and that's a problem with the scheme itself.

I believe MLF answered his own questions. If Barry's team is supposed to be the Fangio style shell that prevents the long pass the run game is vulnerable unless what you have up front is a super strong DL. When he was in LA Barry relied on his front four to beat the O Line off the ball. Petine basically said that he always played pass first. So we have gone nowhere. With all that we have socked into secondary players the last decade how bout we get a DC that says stop the run first.

 

[PikeBadger]

I remember Edgar Bennett was a bear killer. Unfortunately, it looks like Montgomery is a Packer killer.

He has had a career against us. The guy has really hurt us regularly.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well, when we played the Jets last year it was not their offensive line that hurt us. It was the defensive line of which Rodgers could not escape. I believe the Jets figured their running game would be good enough to open the passing game for their aging leader. Similar to Denver with Peyton and Tampa with Brady.

Denver certainly won the SB (when Manning was QB) on the strength of their D. By that time, Manning was a bystander. If I remember correctly, he didn't pass for much more than 150 yards. Even so, the Denver offense cruised.

Tampa also had an outstanding D when they won the SB with Brady. Brady played a much bigger part than did Manning, but hey, a ring is a ring.

So maybe the Jets thought Rodgers still had enough gas to avoid most sacks, something he was very good at, and more than enough QB skill to get them to the SB. We won't know unless he comes back next year, and I'm not convinced that's gonna happen unless the Jets fix that OL, or at least commit to it. I'm sure Rodgers doesn't want to go into the HOF with a walker.

 

[Heyjoe4]

There's no way to make that conclusion until we see a change at DC. How many times around the league have we seen defenses completely turned around by a competent DC? One thing I do know is that we have a ton of speed and athleticism on that side of the ball. It's hard to make clean tackles when the poor scheme causes you to consistently have to scramble to get in position to make tackles. We are constantly chasing guys for tackles and that's a problem with the scheme itself.

I agree that the defensive scheme is very weak. There are some athletes in that group, but they're not being used well. Take Barry's habit of almost always playing soft zone with his corners. I don't remember the last time an opponent's receivers were bumped at the LOS.

Walker seems like a very athletic LB who can deal with the run and the pass. But he seems to be routinely out of position. I don't know if that's the scheme or the player, as Walker must be the guy leading the D on the field. Or maybe not.

It seems like we're all piling on Barry. IMO, it's deserved. And it causes me to doubt MLF's judgement for keeping him around.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Barry is 90% the problem, not the players. Fun fact though. Fangio's defense so far this year is allowing 23.7 points per game. Barry's is allowing 24 points per game.

Well so much for chasing guys. The best way is to find a young, up and coming guy who has excelled at coaching more than one unit. I don't know any names off hand, but they must be out there. Coaching in the NFL is becoming a very young person's job.