Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Pkrjones]

To the disappointment of many... MLF expects Barry back in '23. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...remain-packers-defensive-coordinator-in-2023/

 

[Zartan]

If Rodgers throws in the towel it wont be like wasting anything.

 

[Magooch]

Somebody needs to save LaFleur from himself. I think he’s a very talented coach and by all accounts a fine guy but his loyalty to a fault may well end up killing his career.

 

[MadCat]

To the disappointment of many... MLF expects Barry back in '23. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...remain-packers-defensive-coordinator-in-2023/

Digging his own grave.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Starting to feel like Capers 2.O

Capers at least had the excuse of not being given enough talent to work with. Barry no longer has that excuse.

 

[gopkrs]

I would really like to see a new DC. But if LaFleur can't make good decisions; maybe it will be better if they are all gone after next year.

 

[milani]

Captain pretty much said it in a nutshell. Rodgers missed 6, maybe 9 days of OTAs at maximum (I know he missed the first two three-day sets, can’t recall on the third one).

In whatever case, as I recall, Watson missed the final three sessions with injury himself and wasn’t cleared until mid-August. So that’s at most six sessions missed with arguably his most important new target and I’d wager that the ~2 months Watson was out injured over the summer had a bigger impact on early chemistry than those six missed days. Obviously I’m not blaming Watson for that but rather just to show that perhaps Rodgers’ absence was not the biggest factor there. Similarly, I’d argue that Watson’s early drop hurt every bit as much (if not more) when it comes to his comfort, confidence, etc and that certainly wasn’t a chemistry issue - they were obviously on the same page, ball was perfect, it’s just a drop. Rodgers attending those 6 OTAs with Watson doesn’t change how he catches that ball or not there.

Additionally veteran WRs like Lazard and Watkins missed. So coupled with Watson’s late absence when we say “missed opportunities to get on the same page as young new WRs” the ones who would be the primary benefactors there are guys like Doubs (who I think already exceeded expectations pre-injury and also didn’t seem to have huge chemistry issues that would’ve been remedied by spending OTAs together, either) and fringe guys like Toure, Winfree, and Amari, who himself was of course a mid-season cut.

So all that to say while I’d agree it’s perhaps not a good “look” and it certainly wouldn’t have hurt anyone for Rodgers to attend all of our OTAs I seriously doubt it would’ve added a single extra digit to our win column when it’s all said and done, and that’s what ultimately matters. Obviously I can’t prove that it wouldn’t have caused us to win an extra game…. But in the same way nobody else can prove it would have. And as we know it’s the one making the claim that Rodgers’ absence had an appreciable negative impact on our season overall that bears the burden of proof there, so it is what it is.

Sometimes the chemistry with rookies happens quickly. Sometimes it can take a season or two. Injuries interrupted some of the progress. But with Sammy Watkins new in the team mix it compounded it even more. You try to replace Scantling, Adams, and EQ in the same year and you find that it is a lot harder than you think. If we ONLY had to compensate for Adams we may have gotten over the hump. But all 3?

 

[milani]

I would really like to see a new DC. But if LaFleur can't make good decisions; maybe it will be better if they are all gone after next year.

He was definitely outcoached. But better execution would have made it look the other way.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

To the disappointment of many... MLF expects Barry back in '23. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...remain-packers-defensive-coordinator-in-2023/

That really disapoints me, in that case they both need to go. QW may have shown that things may have gotten out of control. One bad unsportsmanlike was very bad, but two is borderline unacceptable. And given the situation, it was extremely stupid. We've seen many players lose it and give up major first downs.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I see Lovie Smith got fired. I've always had a healthy respect for him as a man and a defensive minded coach. He'd be someone I wouldn't mind seeing here. There's a few others too, but saw he was canned after winning last night and it crossed my mind.

Lovie hasn't had much success coaching a defense since leaving Chicago. I would prefer the Packers to hire someone younger than him.

 

[ARPackFan]

To the disappointment of many... MLF expects Barry back in '23. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...remain-packers-defensive-coordinator-in-2023/

MLF is just trying to keep the steak alive as it has been 25 years since the Packers had a consistently good DC in Fritz Shurmur. I would like to see Barry gone but the Packers organization appears willing to give coaches more time than they probably deserve. No sense of urgency on the field or in the front office.

 

[gopkrs]

He was definitely outcoached. But better execution would have made it look the other way.

I was thinking more of hiring and keeping coaches. But actually, to some extent, execution is also his responsibility. I would say Lombardi felt like the execution of plays was also up to him. Putting players in the right spot to succeed for example. Knowing that the players know their responsibilities.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Barry's career as a DC:

2007 Detroit - 30th in DVOA, 32nd in scoring defense
2008 Detroit - 31st and 32nd
2015 Washington - 21st and 19th
2016 Washington - 25th and 18th
2021 Packers - 22nd and 10th
2022 Packers - 20th and 17th

But hey, his defense played well over the last five games so let's just ignore the 6 seasons of terrible defensive DVOA and five seasons of below average to awful scoring defense because his defense played well for five games and recency bias is super fun!

Joe Barry is a terrible DC; the Packers, until Gary was lost for the season, had the most first and second round defensive snaps in the entire league and Joe Barry turned that into a defense that gave up 27 to the Giants, 27 to the Jets, 24 to the Pats, and 23 to the Commanders. People defending him by bringing up the end of this season are completely ignoring the vast, VAST history of his performance. Geno Smith had a really good year in 2022 but I'm not seeing a whole lot of people clamoring that he's not a top-10 QB.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Barry's career as a DC:

2007 Detroit - 30th in DVOA, 32nd in scoring defense
2008 Detroit - 31st and 32nd
2015 Washington - 21st and 19th
2016 Washington - 25th and 18th
2021 Packers - 22nd and 10th
2022 Packers - 20th and 17th

But hey, his defense played well over the last five games so let's just ignore the 6 seasons of terrible defensive DVOA and one season of above average scoring defense because his defense played well for five games and recency bias is super fun!

Joe Barry is a terrible DC; the Packers, until Gary was lost for the season, had the most first and second round defensive snaps in the entire league and Joe Barry turned that into a defense that gave up 27 to the Giants, 27 to the Jets, 24 to the Pats, and 23 to the Commanders. People defending him by bringing up the end of this season are completely ignoring the vast, VAST history of his performance. Geno Smith had a really good year in 2022 but I'm not seeing a whole lot of people clamoring that he's not a top-10 QB.

Finally! Defenses regressing under him is the norm. And I'm not the only one that sees that he is way below average more often than not. A lot of analysts thought that his hiring was a head scratcher. Face it, he stinks and MLF is just trying to keep his friend employed. If he thinks he's a good DC (not great, just good) then he needs to go to.

 

[Voyageur]

Barry's career as a DC:

2007 Detroit - 30th in DVOA, 32nd in scoring defense
2008 Detroit - 31st and 32nd
2015 Washington - 21st and 19th
2016 Washington - 25th and 18th
2021 Packers - 22nd and 10th
2022 Packers - 20th and 17th

But hey, his defense played well over the last five games so let's just ignore the 6 seasons of terrible defensive DVOA and five seasons of below average to awful scoring defense because his defense played well for five games and recency bias is super fun!

Joe Barry is a terrible DC; the Packers, until Gary was lost for the season, had the most first and second round defensive snaps in the entire league and Joe Barry turned that into a defense that gave up 27 to the Giants, 27 to the Jets, 24 to the Pats, and 23 to the Commanders. People defending him by bringing up the end of this season are completely ignoring the vast, VAST history of his performance. Geno Smith had a really good year in 2022 but I'm not seeing a whole lot of people clamoring that he's not a top-10 QB.

This has always been my concern. I've never seen where his defenses were that good. I have no idea what LeFleur, or anyone else sees in him.

 

[Magooch]

Barry's career as a DC:

2007 Detroit - 30th in DVOA, 32nd in scoring defense
2008 Detroit - 31st and 32nd
2015 Washington - 21st and 19th
2016 Washington - 25th and 18th
2021 Packers - 22nd and 10th
2022 Packers - 20th and 17th

But hey, his defense played well over the last five games so let's just ignore the 6 seasons of terrible defensive DVOA and five seasons of below average to awful scoring defense because his defense played well for five games and recency bias is super fun!

Joe Barry is a terrible DC; the Packers, until Gary was lost for the season, had the most first and second round defensive snaps in the entire league and Joe Barry turned that into a defense that gave up 27 to the Giants, 27 to the Jets, 24 to the Pats, and 23 to the Commanders. People defending him by bringing up the end of this season are completely ignoring the vast, VAST history of his performance. Geno Smith had a really good year in 2022 but I'm not seeing a whole lot of people clamoring that he's not a top-10 QB.

But look, since 2007 overall he's trending upwards!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The excuse for Capers was "not enough talent".

The excuse for Barry? "Too much talent"?

I understand keeping a coach longer if they actually are working with a shortage of talent and it is thought that things will get better with more talent. However, that is not the case with Barry. He actually has an abundance of talent to work with and nothing really to show for it. Yes, the defense had a few decent games this season, but crapped the bed in some too. The inconsistency from game to game, is a sure sign that your coach isn't making the necessary adjustments for each offense that the team is going to face.

 

[Magooch]

I'm sure I'm repeating myself but I've always said the simplest question regarding a coach - are they getting the most out of the players at their disposal? Great coaches are able to bring out a product that's greater than the sum of its parts. Good coaches are able to get their players performing right about where you'd expect them to be based on talent/potential. Bad coaches produce a result that's less than the sum of its parts, one that fails to live up to its talent/potential.

Can anyone really say Barry would meet the criteria for "great" or even "good" in that sense? You could make an argument that Barry has been given the most "expensive" defense in the league when you consider both money spent (12th in '22 and 4th in '23 defensive spending overall) and draft capital invested, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that Joe Barry has given us a product that's anywhere near living up to that billing.

 

[Mondio]

I think continuity is a good thing. You don't want to change coaches every year, it is a disruption and it often doesn't work.
That said, this was year 2, they have very good players on that side of the ball and they continually got less than the sum of their parts out of it IMO. I think they regressed despite adding even more talent. They did bounce back I guess near the end of the year, but what about the first 2/3's?

I guess, if he stays, they better have it fixed by next year.

 

[milani]

Lovie hasn't had much success coaching a defense since leaving Chicago. I would prefer the Packers to hire someone younger than him.

Lovie is not young any more. Some old defensive coaches have had success. But it it is better to go young right now.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I'm sure I'm repeating myself but I've always said the simplest question regarding a coach - are they getting the most out of the players at their disposal? Great coaches are able to bring out a product that's greater than the sum of its parts. Good coaches are able to get their players performing right about where you'd expect them to be based on talent/potential. Bad coaches produce a result that's less than the sum of its parts, one that fails to live up to its talent/potential.

Can anyone really say Barry would meet the criteria for "great" or even "good" in that sense? You could make an argument that Barry has been given the most "expensive" defense in the league when you consider both money spent (12th in '22 and 4th in '23 defensive spending overall) and draft capital invested, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to make an argument that Joe Barry has given us a product that's anywhere near living up to that billing.

JB is what I would say would qualify as a bad coach given the examples you listed. We drafted more talent, and they got worse.

Barry's career as a DC:

2007 Detroit - 30th in DVOA, 32nd in scoring defense
2008 Detroit - 31st and 32nd
2015 Washington - 21st and 19th
2016 Washington - 25th and 18th
2021 Packers - 22nd and 10th
2022 Packers - 20th and 17th

You can feel this defense is turning the corner, but spurts of good defensive play at times doesn't equate to a good, championship defense. Facts will always be facts, and this will NEVER be a championship winning defense the way it's playing. How much of **** poor zone do we need to see?

 

[Voyageur]

Regardless of anyone's thoughts on it, the defense we employ hurts us more than helps, and the guy in charge of it has never really been that successful, based on stats.

How can we even begin to imagine that it's getting better, when we've seen the same failures every year, under two different coaches, considered to be gurus in it's application?

I'm in favor of reworking the defense, to a more conventional 4-3, but that's probably never going to happen, unless there's a complete change of defensive philosophy.

 

[lambeaulambo]

To the disappointment of many... MLF expects Barry back in '23. https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...remain-packers-defensive-coordinator-in-2023/

what an outrage...another blind loyalist at the helm...I just threw up..

 

[JK64]

I'm not suggesting Rodgers not showing up for OTAs benefitted the team but I'm convinced it wouldn't have made any difference either.

With 4 new receivers it would have been a benefit, for sure. Rodgers' best years had him attending OTA's. At $50,000,000 is that expecting too much?

 

[JK64]

Teams are holding OTAs for rookies and veteran additions to the roster learning the playbook. Rodgers being there wouldn't have improved their knowledge of the playbook at that point.

Bull****.

Rodgers telling young players what he expects them to do on plays they don't even know anything about before installments are being finished wouldn't have helped at all.

Bull****.

The Packers defense has too much talent to finish tied for 17th in points allowed. It's time to move on from Barry.

Truth!