Fire Joe Barry -- Updated -- he's gone

[Voyageur]

And people get sick of each other too. Lombardi’s guys spent half the time together these guys do. How many OTAs did he have?

Rodgers isn’t even practicing half the days now because of injury.

You’re not the only one to have played sports at a decent level. Guys used to spend 2 hours in a gym. I’d spend 45 minutes and got more done than all of them.

A military type preseason camp, ran like basic training, followed by a 6 game preseason, where the regulars played over half the minutes in every game, and contact practices whenever wanted by the coaching staff.

I don't doubt for a moment you could get more accomplished in 45 minutes of work out today than what we'd get in my day. Today, conditioning is full time. In my day, to stay in shape during the off season, you took on jobs like being a hod carrier, ditch digger, or loading beer trucks, to help keep the strength up. Conditioning happened when you hit camp, and was meshed in with the practices. Practices weren't 90 minutes long, they could be a grueling conditioning program, short practice, lunch, skull session, and back to serious practice, with contact in a lot of cases.

Even in high school we practiced longer than 90 minutes, and each practice included a lot of contact work.

What I do see is teams that are better conditioned, and better drilled, play better football early in the season, and that's often the difference as to those who make the playoffs.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yes, they’re playing much better. How many years did that take? How often have Barry defenses been good vs been bad? I have zero confidence that Barry can adapt in a timely fashion to compensate for changing offenses. Been good lately, you confident he’ll figure out how to modify the defense when an OC figures out how to take advantage of it? Cause I’m not.

I only expect Barry n Co. to hold Opponents to around <=20pts/GM. Maybe slightly higher for a top 5 area Offense to be realistic. How he does it is not nearly as important to me. If we hold the Lions to 15 points etc..? There’s absolutely, positively and unequivocally zero reason to lose that type game other than a colossal sized pooping of the bed by other phases.

 

[Mondio]

our high school wrestling practices were about 90 minutes and we've been winning state championships for over 30 years. Our HC that started when I was a freshman just retired at the end of last year. Unfortunately team wise they finished 2nd at team state, but his last match as HC saw his son win his 2nd state title as an individual. His kids worked hard when it was time, they didn't attend camps all year long. Efficiency was stressed over quantity.

anyway, with all this team was dealing with, Everest vs grains of sand, is what I feel people are comparing. This team struggled, yes, and every year people want to say it's because of the qb and his selfishness and ego and how he turns teammates off. and every year they prove them wrong. This year included. Amari fumbles another ball and suddenly we're down 14 points to Dallas with the season on the line. Easy to kick the can, woe is me and lay down and call it a year.

Teams with no leadership do that all the time. and they didn't
Time after time this year, again, as bad as things went and looked at times, teams with no leadership, crumble like cheap tents or faster. This team never did.
and early on, again it wasn't relationships, it was BakhT, jenkins, Meyers, Royce, Watson hurt, Watkins couldn't stay on field either in beginning, Cobb out for a while etc. Flux and youth and OTA's were so far down the list of why it wasn't working I guess i'm really done talking about now It's grains vs mountains and mostly to throw shade at the QB at this point.

 

[Voyageur]

our high school wrestling practices were about 90 minutes and we've been winning state championships for over 30 years. Our HC that started when I was a freshman just retired at the end of last year. Unfortunately team wise they finished 2nd at team state, but his last match as HC saw his son win his 2nd state title as an individual. His kids worked hard when it was time, they didn't attend camps all year long. Efficiency was stressed over quantity.

anyway, with all this team was dealing with, Everest vs grains of sand, is what I feel people are comparing. This team struggled, yes, and every year people want to say it's because of the qb and his selfishness and ego and how he turns teammates off. and every year they prove them wrong. This year included. Amari fumbles another ball and suddenly we're down 14 points to Dallas with the season on the line. Easy to kick the can, woe is me and lay down and call it a year.

Teams with no leadership do that all the time. and they didn't
Time after time this year, again, as bad as things went and looked at times, teams with no leadership, crumble like cheap tents or faster. This team never did.
and early on, again it wasn't relationships, it was BakhT, jenkins, Meyers, Royce, Watson hurt, Watkins couldn't stay on field either in beginning, Cobb out for a while etc. Flux and youth and OTA's were so far down the list of why it wasn't working I guess i'm really done talking about now It's grains vs mountains and mostly to throw shade at the QB at this point.

I get your point on some sports, but that doesn't work across the board. Wrestling is an individual sport, and your results are based on your own actions, not in concert with others. Even most individual sports require practice and more practice. Bowling and golf come to mind. You need a lot of practice to get decent at either. You won't get there devoting 90 minutes to it.

Football is a lot like becoming a member of a dance troupe. You work at it endless hours, so you get good enough, as a group, to make the performance what's demanded of the discipline.

 

[Mondio]

I get your point on some sports, but that doesn't work across the board. Wrestling is an individual sport, and your results are based on your own actions, not in concert with others. Even most individual sports require practice and more practice. Bowling and golf come to mind. You need a lot of practice to get decent at either. You won't get there devoting 90 minutes to it.

Football is a lot like becoming a member of a dance troupe. You work at it endless hours, so you get good enough, as a group, to make the performance what's demanded of the discipline.

that's true to a degree, but now the question is, do you believe a team can't build a cohesive unit in Training camp and the season? Why not just move them all in together all year? and there still is a team atmosphere in an individual sport like wrestling. I'd say some of the best relationships were built in that. We picked each other up when we needed it all the time. We pushed each other all the time. We had to be there for individual wins and losses, we shoveled guys out of the ditch to get to practice over deer hunting though we'd all be late and have our butts handed to us for it LOL. Preparation is almost all team. But yes, it's mano y mano on the mat.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I get your point on some sports, but that doesn't work across the board. Wrestling is an individual sport, and your results are based on your own actions, not in concert with others. Even most individual sports require practice and more practice. Bowling and golf come to mind. You need a lot of practice to get decent at either. You won't get there devoting 90 minutes to it.

Football is a lot like becoming a member of a dance troupe. You work at it endless hours, so you get good enough, as a group, to make the performance what's demanded of the discipline.

Heck, I'll do even better than the dance troupe analogy. Basketball, simple HS basketball, you would game plan and actively make adjustments, or you would pay. Barry makes almost 0 adjustments. He sometimes makes halftime adjustments (as I have observed) but mostly, I don't see a lot. I won't be fooled by the recent weeks, I'm going to look at what has been happening this whole year.

 

[swhitset]

I highly doubt Rodgers showing up for OTAs would have made any difference let alone the offense playing at a much higher level because of it.

Then why even have them? Just because Rodgers is a veteran and may not need any extra summer practice doesn’t mean his presence wouldn’t have helped the young receivers acclimate. Neither of us can prove the other wrong here, but Rodgers could have shown more dedication to the team and the success of his new receivers by his presence. I will always respect Rodgers’ talent, but I think personally, I am ready to watch someone that appears to appreciate his opportunities a bit more. I am also quite aware that it is very unlikely that that person will have anywhere near Rodgers’ talent.

 

[Voyageur]

Just because Rodgers is a veteran and may not need any extra summer practice doesn’t mean his presence wouldn’t have helped the young receivers acclimate.

Perfect! One sentence says it all. Help the young player acclimate to working with Rodgers. If nothing other than that came out of OTAs, they'd be a success. They need to know what Rodgers is thinking on plays, and what he says he expects from them. This gives them the input they need to start digesting the playbook.

 

[pacmaniac]

With the season on the line, we died by Joe Barry's zone.

 

[XPack]

Can't blame this game on the D.

O had enough chances and they screwed it up.

 

[longtimefan]

With the season on the line, we died by Joe Barry's zone.

Lmao

Lions offense was way better then tonight

 

[PackAttack12]

This game wasn't the fault of Joe Barry's defense.

That being said, he should be fired.

 

[melvin dangerr]

There needs to be serious heads rolling for hiring Barry and resigning Kevin King

Don’t hold your breath for it

 

[PackAttack12]

Don’t hold your breath for it

The most that'll happen is moving on from Barry.

LaFleur will 100% get an opportunity to coach Jordan Love if the Packers do indeed move on from Rodgers which I firmly believe they will.

 

[longtimefan]

This game wasn't the fault of Joe Barry's defense.

That being said, he should be fired.

I do see you admitted to other parts

 

[melvin dangerr]

The most that'll happen is moving on from Barry.

LaFleur will 100% get an opportunity to coach Jordan Love if the Packers do indeed move on from Rodgers which I firmly believe they will.

Do you think they will trade Love?

 

[longtimefan]

Do you think they will trade Love?

Nope

 

[melvin dangerr]

Nope

I hope your right but I don’t trust management we still don’t know what he can do I saw flashes but the coaches believe he is a better kneel down artist than playmaker

 

[PackAttack12]

They aren't trading Love.

 

[melvin dangerr]

A military type preseason camp, ran like basic training, followed by a 6 game preseason, where the regulars played over half the minutes in every game, and contact practices whenever wanted by the coaching staff.

I don't doubt for a moment you could get more accomplished in 45 minutes of work out today than what we'd get in my day. Today, conditioning is full time. In my day, to stay in shape during the off season, you took on jobs like being a hod carrier, ditch digger, or loading beer trucks, to help keep the strength up. Conditioning happened when you hit camp, and was meshed in with the practices. Practices weren't 90 minutes long, they could be a grueling conditioning program, short practice, lunch, skull session, and back to serious practice, with contact in a lot of cases.

Even in high school we practiced longer than 90 minutes, and each practice included a lot of contact work.

What I do see is teams that are better conditioned, and better drilled, play better football early in the season, and that's often the difference as to those who make the playoffs.

Hod carrier! Now your making me feel old, got plenty of PT unloading tile and shingles

 

[LambeauLombardi]

Unless there is great replacement, I wouldn't hate it if he stayed. Besides the first 12 games of this year (I know, it's 12 games), his entire 2021 in my opinion was really good including the playoff game. He's been pretty good 70% of his time here. It was atrocious for that other 30% but he's done well in big elimination games and the group definitely improved even without their best player from 2021 (Gary). Also was without Jaire and Zadarius last year who were the best defensive players in the years prior. It's a what have you done for me lately league and the last 5 games I thought he did a good job.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Division opponents are always tough to beat no matter their record, Detroit just seemed to have their way with the Packers and showed no fear of a HOF QB, yes there is a lot of blame in Rodgers lap but this was a total team FAILURE I really thought advantage went to us, but the Lions had home field tonight, I waited a whole year to be disappointed again

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Would be good to find out how many of these in their later years did Manning, Brees, and Brady attend.

Brady took an 11-day vacation during training camp this year. That's actually all you need to know about it.

I'm sorry. In football, practicing "together" in a regular basis, as often as possible, creates more cohesiveness on the plays. Everyone gets better at doing their jobs, and players next to them, understand exactly how that player will perform. When it comes to timing, and anticipation of actions, between receivers and QBs, it's paramount. Thinking otherwise doesn't make sense.

The only way you mesh the reality of what someone will do, during a play, with another player, is by practicing that play repeatedly, so you know for sure.

In a practice, if you run the same play a half dozen times, you're not going to get a chance to go through the progressions, and the options within it, more than two times. As an example, on a passing play, with 3 guys out on routes. If you run it 6 times, you get a maximum of two reps for each of the receivers, and you haven't even touched on the concept with a TE or RB as an outlet. You also haven't developed the rhythm, based on the speed of the receivers, the time frame on the QB release, or any of the other factors that apply.

If I was to go by what some seem to believe, you don't need to practice together. You just need to know the plays.

No. Repetition is needed. Lombardi would roll over in his grave if he heard what's said about it not being necessary.

Nobody is suggesting the offense doesn't need to practice together. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to suggest Rodgers showing up for OTAs would have helped as most of the receivers didn't even know where to line up and which spot to run to on most plays at that time though.

Now, how could Rodgers be responsible for defensive problems. It's simple enough. If you can't control the ball long enough, your defense wears down by having to spend too much time on the field. A ball control game, where your QB is efficient, reduces the defense's exposure to number of plays they need to be out there. This is an obvious consideration in my book. You gotta think like a coach across the board. The entire game links itself to itself, regardless of what side of the ball we're talking about.

I posted the numbers several times early this season that the defense actually wasn't on the field for a lot of plays compared to other teams. In addition them stopping their opponents would have helped in that regard as well.

Agreed. Just spending time together can help with team bonding. Seems like they have a team movie, bowling, etc. once in awhile. Why do people think they do that? This notion of "Aaron not being at OTA's didn't hurt the team one bit", is pretty silly. I can name several ways that it didn't help the team as well as several ways it would have helped the team. I would challenge someone to give me a few reasons why him not being there benefited the team.

I'm not suggesting Rodgers not showing up for OTAs benefitted the team but I'm convinced it wouldn't have made any difference either.

Then why even have them? Just because Rodgers is a veteran and may not need any extra summer practice doesn’t mean his presence wouldn’t have helped the young receivers acclimate. Neither of us can prove the other wrong here, but Rodgers could have shown more dedication to the team and the success of his new receivers by his presence.

Teams are holding OTAs for rookies and veteran additions to the roster learning the playbook. Rodgers being there wouldn't have improved their knowledge of the playbook at that point.

Perfect! One sentence says it all. Help the young player acclimate to working with Rodgers. If nothing other than that came out of OTAs, they'd be a success. They need to know what Rodgers is thinking on plays, and what he says he expects from them. This gives them the input they need to start digesting the playbook.

Rodgers telling young players what he expects them to do on plays they don't even know anything about before installments are being finished wouldn't have helped at all.

Unless there is great replacement, I wouldn't hate it if he stayed. Besides the first 12 games of this year (I know, it's 12 games), his entire 2021 in my opinion was really good including the playoff game. He's been pretty good 70% of his time here. It was atrocious for that other 30% but he's done well in big elimination games and the group definitely improved even without their best player from 2021 (Gary). Also was without Jaire and Zadarius last year who were the best defensive players in the years prior. It's a what have you done for me lately league and the last 5 games I thought he did a good job.

The Packers defense has too much talent to finish tied for 17th in points allowed. It's time to move on from Barry.

 

[Magooch]

Captain pretty much said it in a nutshell. Rodgers missed 6, maybe 9 days of OTAs at maximum (I know he missed the first two three-day sets, can’t recall on the third one).

In whatever case, as I recall, Watson missed the final three sessions with injury himself and wasn’t cleared until mid-August. So that’s at most six sessions missed with arguably his most important new target and I’d wager that the ~2 months Watson was out injured over the summer had a bigger impact on early chemistry than those six missed days. Obviously I’m not blaming Watson for that but rather just to show that perhaps Rodgers’ absence was not the biggest factor there. Similarly, I’d argue that Watson’s early drop hurt every bit as much (if not more) when it comes to his comfort, confidence, etc and that certainly wasn’t a chemistry issue - they were obviously on the same page, ball was perfect, it’s just a drop. Rodgers attending those 6 OTAs with Watson doesn’t change how he catches that ball or not there.

Additionally veteran WRs like Lazard and Watkins missed. So coupled with Watson’s late absence when we say “missed opportunities to get on the same page as young new WRs” the ones who would be the primary benefactors there are guys like Doubs (who I think already exceeded expectations pre-injury and also didn’t seem to have huge chemistry issues that would’ve been remedied by spending OTAs together, either) and fringe guys like Toure, Winfree, and Amari, who himself was of course a mid-season cut.

So all that to say while I’d agree it’s perhaps not a good “look” and it certainly wouldn’t have hurt anyone for Rodgers to attend all of our OTAs I seriously doubt it would’ve added a single extra digit to our win column when it’s all said and done, and that’s what ultimately matters. Obviously I can’t prove that it wouldn’t have caused us to win an extra game…. But in the same way nobody else can prove it would have. And as we know it’s the one making the claim that Rodgers’ absence had an appreciable negative impact on our season overall that bears the burden of proof there, so it is what it is.

 

[Mondio]

All year I've thought this defense had too much individual talent to play so poorly at times. My view on that hasn't changed a lot. They have been playing better and last night wasn't an indictment on the defense. They were largely good enough to win.

But Still wouldn't be upset to move on from Barry.
I see Lovie Smith got fired. I've always had a healthy respect for him as a man and a defensive minded coach. He'd be someone I wouldn't mind seeing here. There's a few others too, but saw he was canned after winning last night and it crossed my mind.