Fire Capers

[Un4GivN]

So you're saying that the Packer's defense isn't as good against good offenses?? Not to be argumentative but that's true of all but maybe 2-3 defenses in the NFL.

The Giants aren't actually a bad offense but the Packer held them to 221 total yards in week 5.

And here's the kicker...the Packers held the Falcons to their second lowest yardage total of the season; the Packer's defense gave up a grand total of only 5 more yards than the Seahawks (and the Packers were on the road while the Seahawks were at home). I know facts can ruin the narrative and it's really easy to focus on the most recent week and forget the rest of the season, but the Packers defense hasn't been nearly as bad as people want to claim. Now, Capers has been putting together the pass defense with duct tape and bailing wire so perhaps the league has figured out how to exploit a defense that is severely lacking in talent at every level. Now that CM3 is out we can finally see that Perry really isn't anything that offenses need to worry about.

I agree with your premise of doing worse against better competition... Everyone that watched that Atlanta game seen how hurt Julio was. And how easy it was for the Falcons to score when they needed it.

And they have been really really bad the past couple of weeks. Giving up an average of 37 points a game (you can even take the return touchdown out and they are giving up 35). And 4 out of 5... which the sole good showing coming at the hands of the mighty Bears and Matt Barkley.

The Packers are 24th in the league in points allowed against a really weak ... At the end of the day that is the only stat that matters. That is against the 27th, 26th, 17th, 24th, 4th, 31st, 1st, 7th, 8th scoring offenses.

So if you average that it's about 16. Meaning the Packers should have about the 16th best scoring defense. But instead have under-preformed in general and allowed more scoring than average to these teams.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Agreed and as I posted elsewhere, by using so many top picks as well as the sheer numbers of picks since 2012 on the defense, we are seeing how it has affected the talent (lack of) on offense.

Well, it also hurts that those first round defensive players haven't really lived up to expectations. I've pointed this out in the past and I'll point it out again, when you have an elite QB you can get away with lesser talent elsewhere because the QB can raise the level of play for everyone on the offense; there is no similar position on defense, one great defensive player can't make the entire defense great.

The issue with the offense is that MM's scheme has been figured out. For those complaining of offensive talent, can you think of two players on the Saints' offense you'd swap out for their Packers' counterpart? Packers have equivalent receivers to Saints, better oline, better QB, Fleener is better than Rodgers but c'mon, neither is really good; maybe you'd swap Ingram for Lacy? Yet the Saints offense is REALLY good while the Packers is REALLY bad.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

No, it's focusing on their overall performance for some time now and their overall lack of talent and impact players.

And yet I pointed out that the defense was good last season and pretty decent outside the past couple of weeks this year. When you say "overall performance for some time now" you must be meaning that the Packers' defense isn't elite and therefore it's bad. There is a middle ground there and the Packers have been above-average last season to about average this year.

 

[PackerDNA]

I have continuously seen some of the most horrifyingly inept play on any level from this unit. They look lost, technique that would be poor from someone who's never played the game, poor tackling, on and on . They cannot make a stop when needed against anyone save for opening day. Sorry my friend, but I look at most of this unit and think "time for an overhaul".

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I agree with your premise of doing worse against better competition... Everyone that watched that Atlanta game seen how hurt Julio was. And how easy it was for the Falcons to score when they needed it.

And they have been really really bad the past couple of weeks. Giving up an average of 37 points a game (you can even take the return touchdown out and they are giving up 35). And 4 out of 5... which the sole good showing coming at the hands of the mighty Bears and Matt Barkley.

The Packers are 24th in the league in points allowed against a really weak ... At the end of the day that is the only stat that matters. That is against the 27th, 26th, 17th, 24th, 4th, 31st, 1st, 7th, 8th scoring offenses.

So if you average that it's about 16. Meaning the Packers should have about the 16th best scoring defense. But instead have under-preformed in general and allowed more scoring than average to these teams.

Not sure where your stats are coming from but, according to Pro Football Reference, the Packers defense has given up 234 points, good for 22nd in the NFL (not saying your wrong, just want to know which is correct). A big chunk of that is the past two weeks, which I've said has been terrible defense. Prior to that the Packers defense was about middle of the road. Capers and MM both need to go but I hear people blaming Capers and saying injuries aren't an excuse but, in point of fact, injuries ARE an excuse. The Packers are fielding corners that require help while at the same time missing linebackers so the run defense also needs help; there are only so many players on defense that can help injured groups. Oh, and without Clay on the field the pass rush is awful (while he wasn't putting up sack numbers it's now apparent that he was freeing up others with his presence). I'm just curious what magic wand a different coordinator could use to make Gunter faster and Nick Perry a pass rush threat (ok, I'll admit that Rod Marinelli could make Perry a pass rush threat but I don't think he could do much with Gunter).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I have continuously seen some of the most horrifyingly inept play on any level from this unit. They look lost, technique that would be poor from someone who's never played the game, poor tackling, on and on . They cannot make a stop when needed against anyone save for opening day. Sorry my friend, but I look at most of this unit and think "time for an overhaul".

I agree, the group needs an overhaul, but the biggest overhaul needed is health and players, not coaching (though I am hoping for all three).

 

[PackerDNA]

I agree, the group needs an overhaul, but the biggest overhaul needed is health and players, not coaching (though I am hoping for all three).

I'll take "all three" for the win, Alex.

 

[Un4GivN]

Not sure where your stats are coming from but, according to Pro Football Reference, the Packers defense has given up 234 points, good for 22nd in the NFL (not saying your wrong, just want to know which is correct). A big chunk of that is the past two weeks, which I've said has been terrible defense. Prior to that the Packers defense was about middle of the road. Capers and MM both need to go but I hear people blaming Capers and saying injuries aren't an excuse but, in point of fact, injuries ARE an excuse. The Packers are fielding corners that require help while at the same time missing linebackers so the run defense also needs help; there are only so many players on defense that can help injured groups. Oh, and without Clay on the field the pass rush is awful (while he wasn't putting up sack numbers it's now apparent that he was freeing up others with his presence). I'm just curious what magic wand a different coordinator could use to make Gunter faster and Nick Perry a pass rush threat (ok, I'll admit that Rod Marinelli could make Perry a pass rush threat but I don't think he could do much with Gunter).

That is forgetting that some teams haven't had a bye yet, so likely would have less points given than a team already one bye. Going by PPG not point total.

And with you, I am on the lack of talent train. I think Capers honestly would be fine if you give him the Seahawk defense. But I know I am one of the few.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And yet the actual play of the defense, prior to the past two weeks, has actually been pretty good considering the players the team was fielding. Is calling something a "paper tiger" a way of excusing actual performance from early in the season so that we can only focus on two games?

The Packers defense played pretty well last season but has been mostly terrible for most of this year.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers defense played pretty well last season but has been mostly terrible for most of this year.

Pass defense has been terrrible. Overall defense was decent prior to the last few games. I'm not defending the defense going forward, I think the league has caught up to the smoke and mirrors that Capers has been using to hide a weak secondary and linebacking group.

 

[PikeBadger]

Pass defense has been terrrible. Overall defense was decent prior to the last few games. I'm not defending the defense going forward, I think the league has caught up to the smoke and mirrors that Capers has been using to hide a weak secondary and linebacking group.

All starts up front. No consistent pass rush is always going to cause problems. You cannot let NFL calibre QB's stand in the pocket and throw where and when they want to.

 

[rodell330]

My favorite topic haha smh. Yrs later and we are still talking about the inconsistent Packer defense. The guy who's in control still hanging around. I wonder what the issue is? Better yet who? We all know except TT and MM

 

[swhitset]

I wonder what the issue is? Better yet who? We all know except TT and MM

This is the attitude that I find the most ridiculous in fans. I am fine when we speculate about issues regarding the team. I can even understand feeling like a change is needed in certain areas, including coaches. I can't understand the attitude that I can only describe as supreme arrogance when we start to profess that we know more about what is going on than the coaches and players on the team itself. I'm certain that there are numerous problems affecting the Packers right now, and I actually believe a coaching change may be necessary, but I am also certain that Capers knows more about the problems on defense than we do. Whether he is capable of fixing them is another matter. It may well be that his system just cannot work for a myriad of reasons.

 

[rodell330]

This is the attitude that I find the most ridiculous in fans. I am fine when we speculate about issues regarding the team. I can even understand feeling like a change is needed in certain areas, including coaches. I can't understand the attitude that I can only describe as supreme arrogance when we start to profess that we know more about what is going on than the coaches and players on the team itself. I'm certain that there are numerous problems affecting the Packers right now, and I actually believe a coaching change may be necessary, but I am also certain that Capers knows more about the problems on defense than we do. Whether he is capable of fixing them is another matter. It may well be that his system just cannot work for a myriad of reasons.

You'd be amaze by what you can see on A 62 inch HD tv. That vanilla zone defense stands out like a **** haha. The rest of the league has figured out Capers defense. He's been doing the same thing since the 80's man.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

After watching a few of Leroy Butler's "Chalk Talk" this year, I am always dumbfounded by how deep the Packer safeties are playing at times. I understand not wanting to give up the home run, which also relies on actually being able to tackle, it seems like having 2 guys that far back, unengaged from any receivers, is partly why the middle of the field, 10-20 yards from the LOS, is continuously open to the offense.

 

[Half Empty]

This is the attitude that I find the most ridiculous in fans. I am fine when we speculate about issues regarding the team. I can even understand feeling like a change is needed in certain areas, including coaches. I can't understand the attitude that I can only describe as supreme arrogance when we start to profess that we know more about what is going on than the coaches and players on the team itself. I'm certain that there are numerous problems affecting the Packers right now, and I actually believe a coaching change may be necessary, but I am also certain that Capers knows more about the problems on defense than we do. Whether he is capable of fixing them is another matter. It may well be that his system just cannot work for a myriad of reasons.

Isn't that the point of the thread?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

After watching a few of Leroy Butler's "Chalk Talk" this year, I am always dumbfounded by how deep the Packer safeties are playing at times. I understand not wanting to give up the home run, which also relies on actually being able to tackle, it seems like having 2 guys that far back, unengaged from any receivers, is partly why the middle of the field, 10-20 yards from the LOS, is continuously open to the offense.

The Packers are currently fielding a defense with a starting corner that ran the 40 more slowly than Shane Ray, a defensive end. So yeah, the safeties are gonna be playing pretty deep because there's no way he can hold up on his own.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers are currently fielding a defense with a starting corner that ran the 40 more slowly than Shane Ray, a defensive end. So yeah, the safeties are gonna be playing pretty deep because there's no way he can hold up on his own.

Well you would think the 10 - 15 yard cushion that our corners are giving at the LOS would make up for lack of speed, but yeah, not much you can do when your secondary is lacking speed and talent.

 

[PackAttack12]

I certainly hope that the defense gets their act together as we continue to get healthy, but the performances or lack thereof against quality starting quarterbacks this season is quite alarming.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I certainly hope that the defense gets their act together as we continue to get healthy, but the performances or lack thereof against quality starting quarterbacks this season is quite alarming.

Really Randall is the only guy missing now, I think we can forget about Shields and I don't expect Randall to turn the secondary around.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

You'd be amaze by what you can see on A 62 inch HD tv. That vanilla zone defense stands out like a **** haha. The rest of the league has figured out Capers defense. He's been doing the same thing since the 80's man.

Maybe we just need to club together and buy a 62in HD television for Dom and the boys and the problem will be solved ?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe we just need to club together and buy a 62in HD television for Dom and the boys and the problem will be solved ?

Or everyone can chip in to buy Dom a gold watch and a horse, just watch him ride into the sunset on?

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Or everyone can chip in to buy Dom a gold watch and a horse, just watch him ride into the sunset on?

Brutal

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Pass defense has been terrrible. Overall defense was decent prior to the last few games.

Unfortunately teams need to have at least a decent pass defense in today's NFL especially when facing elite quarterbacks.

After watching a few of Leroy Butler's "Chalk Talk" this year, I am always dumbfounded by how deep the Packer safeties are playing at times. I understand not wanting to give up the home run, which also relies on actually being able to tackle, it seems like having 2 guys that far back, unengaged from any receivers, is partly why the middle of the field, 10-20 yards from the LOS, is continuously open to the offense.

In addition it hasn't prevented teams from completing long touchdown passes because there have been way too many miscommunications in the secondary.

I certainly hope that the defense gets their act together as we continue to get healthy, but the performances or lack thereof against quality starting quarterbacks this season is quite alarming.

Unfortunately that has been the case for the better part of several years.

Really Randall is the only guy missing now, I think we can forget about Shields and I don't expect Randall to turn the secondary around.

The pass rush has to significantly improve to help out the secondary. Getting Randall back might help but won't be a cure-all.

 

[longtimefan]

If we had a rookie qb, rookie lineman, and rookie #1 wr, the offense wouldnt look the same.

Our front 7 isnt horrible and until Dallas game, I think they were performing well enough.

I tuned into an interview with Brady Poppinga on Bill Michaels radio show.

He knows Doms defense.. So He broke down the game film and explained he is mostly seeing out of position type plays, and the guys seem to be having issues understanding the def...

He referred to his time with the defense and how he knows that dom and staff knows how to explain and teach the def the simplest way. It took him and other players 8 games or so to start to truly get and understand. With the new guys playing, this may start to click for them

Not to say there arent other issues, but he should know more than others whats going on.