Fire Capers

[NCcheesehead]

Logic says capers switched for a reason.. I don't think he is that stupid to stop

I think Heyward went down and they had to adjust to what players they had and their strength..

Please don't assume capers did something when he had the right system

The person that started this thread asked for everyone's input. Many people gave theirs and I gave mine. I did not assume anything, I gave my opinion based on what I saw happen. Personally, I do not like Capers as a coach. That is my opinion and I think Greenbay can do better.

 

[Grave]

The defense is finally getting good so we should let go of the coordinator and start over?

Actually analyze that long play to Fitz too. The line got pressure and missed the sack on a slow QB. Fitz was covered at first and then the secondary just let him go. Then they missed like 4-5 tackles.

That play was loaded with mistakes and is not on Capers.

The defense also made a good goal line play that ended up a TD and Shields dropped a possible pick 6.

Capers did not lose this game.

If Capers plays man, someone is on Fitz. And Capers has never insisted his guys tackle. It's all on MM for not demanding tackling and man to man...which had pretty much stymied Palmer. Capers needs to go. We need a Zimmer.

 

[Carl]

If Capers plays man, someone is on Fitz. And Capers has never insisted his guys tackle. It's all on MM for not demanding tackling and man to man...which had pretty much stymied Palmer. Capers needs to go. We need a Zimmer.

To me, the play looked like man for all the corners, except for Randall who let Fitz go. I think Randall didn't know the play.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Why do we keep saying we have limited talent? We've had how many draft picks on defense? If that's the way we choose to build this team, shouldn't we have acquired the talent by now? I mean what do we call Clay, Daniels, Datone, Perry, Randall, Shields, and HaHa? Do we need to have 11 pro bowl players to stop blaming the defense on lack of talent or are we drafting the wrong players?

Why do people always bring up the number of draft picks as proof that some area of the team must be talented? If that was the case then the Cleveland Browns would have the best QB position in the NFL. Fact is that the Packers high picks on defense have, for the most part, been underwhelming. Packers have TWO potential pro bowl players on defense. Shields and HaHa are very good but not pro bowl and I'm not sure how the perennially disappointing Nick Perry, Jones and a rookie are supposed to be proof of playmakers. Fact is that the dline is underwhelming and Matthews has become an average player because he's out of position. The secondary is the strength of the team.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If Capers plays man, someone is on Fitz. And Capers has never insisted his guys tackle. It's all on MM for not demanding tackling and man to man...which had pretty much stymied Palmer. Capers needs to go. We need a Zimmer.

Did you really just imply that Capers somehow doesn't WANT his players to tackle enough? That somehow the current packers coaches trek their players it's ok to miss tackles? Or were you blaming MM? It seemed like you blamed McCarthy, but then you said capers needs to go, so I'm confused.

 

[Defense92]

Capers most likely did NOT tell defenders to stand around with thumbs in their ***** watching Fitzgerald run at will.

 

[Defense92]

Like Coach Lombardi said, "Grab! Grab! Grab! Everobody's grabbing. Put your shoulder in that tackle."

 

[Grave]

Did you really just imply that Capers somehow doesn't WANT his players to tackle enough? That somehow the current packers coaches trek their players it's ok to miss tackles? Or were you blaming MM? It seemed like you blamed McCarthy, but then you said capers needs to go, so I'm confused.

I am saying that the tackling has been abysmal. So abysmal even MM has called attention to it. And then I am saying that nothing has been done to correct it. Capers would have the first responsibility to demand tackling. And the buck stops with MM. Are you in management?

 

[Grave]

Capers most likely did NOT tell defenders to stand around with thumbs in their ***** watching Fitzgerald run at will.

So did he insure that everyone was covered?

 

[Grave]

To me, the play looked like man for all the corners, except for Randall who let Fitz go. I think Randall didn't know the play.

Quite possible. I wonder if Burnet knew? You can see the question marks all over the place on the Mad Scientist's zones. For years now.

 

[Grave]

The person that started this thread asked for everyone's input. Many people gave theirs and I gave mine. I did not assume anything, I gave my opinion based on what I saw happen. Personally, I do not like Capers as a coach. That is my opinion and I think Greenbay can do better.

One would hope so.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Why do people always bring up the number of draft picks as proof that some area of the team must be talented? If that was the case then the Cleveland Browns would have the best QB position in the NFL. Fact is that the Packers high picks on defense have, for the most part, been underwhelming. Packers have TWO potential pro bowl players on defense. Shields and HaHa are very good but not pro bowl and I'm not sure how the perennially disappointing Nick Perry, Jones and a rookie are supposed to be proof of playmakers. Fact is that the dline is underwhelming and Matthews has become an average player because he's out of position. The secondary is the strength of the team.

What else would you like me to point to? A ton of teams would kill to have Raji, Daniels, Pennel, and Guion at DL in a 3-4. They've played pretty well all season. Shields isn't a shut down corner, but he's definitely very talented as is Ha Ha. Our two rookies from this year played phenomenal and will only get better. We had a lot of sacks this year thanks to Peppers, Neal, Perry, and Clay. Our linebacking crew could be improved, but there is definitely talent on this defense.

 

[JBlood]

I am saying that the tackling has been abysmal.

Correct. Pro Football Focus had the Packers as the 20th worst team for missed tackles in 2014, and there hasn't been any obvious improvement in the current "bend don't break" --aka, swing-and-miss-- defense. The 5 missed tackles during Fitzgerald's play simply reflects a problem that has been present for years.

 

[Sky King]

Correct. Pro Football Focus had the Packers as the 20th worst team for missed tackles in 2014, and there hasn't been any obvious improvement in the current "bend don't break" --aka, swing-and-miss-- defense. The 5 missed tackles during Fitzgerald's play simply reflects a problem that has been present for years.

Maybe they need a tackling coach as well as a receivers coach?

 

[Mondio]

20 pts in regulation against a top NFL offense, on the road in the playoffs. This despite our offense and special teams giving them a few very favorable starts on field position. Held a top rushing team in the league averaging 120 yards a game to 40 for a 2.1 yard per carry average, 5-13 on 3rd down, and got 2 INT's and people still want to complain about defense. They really **** out on one play in overtime apparently a broken coverage by 1 guy, a rookie, the rest of the game was very solid against a very good team.

 

[Sky King]

20 pts in regulation against a top NFL offense, on the road in the playoffs. This despite our offense and special teams giving them a few very favorable starts on field position. Held a top rushing team in the league averaging 120 yards a game to 40 for a 2.1 yard per carry average, 5-13 on 3rd down, and got 2 INT's and people still want to complain about defense. They really **** out on one play in overtime apparently a broken coverage by 1 guy, a rookie, the rest of the game was very solid against a very good team.

Perhaps not a rookie's mistake:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-arizona-cardinals-b99651967z1-365609081.html

Quote from the article above:

LINEBACKERS (3)
Twelve months ago, Julius Peppers gave the stop sign to Morgan Burnett on his fourth-quarter interception return that might have clinched victory over the Seahawks. On Saturday night, he took a nice drop on a five-man zone pressure but then inexplicably vacated his area when Carson Palmer appeared that he might run. Daniels was about to tackle Palmer, who couldn't hurt the Packers by running, anyway. A receiver in an open half of the field not only could hurt the Packers but did hurt the Packers. It was another egregious mistake by the veteran...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What else would you like me to point to? A ton of teams would kill to have Raji, Daniels, Pennel, and Guion at DL in a 3-4. They've played pretty well all season. Shields isn't a shut down corner, but he's definitely very talented as is Ha Ha. Our two rookies from this year played phenomenal and will only get better. We had a lot of sacks this year thanks to Peppers, Neal, Perry, and Clay. Our linebacking crew could be improved, but there is definitely talent on this defense.

Bj Raji was a free agent twice (maybe thrice?) and has settled for minimal contacts, so I'm not sure how many teams would actually kill to have him as part of their dline. Same thing is true for Guion. Teams would love Pennel? He's a good rotation player but does anyone really think he'd be expensive to re-sign? So, no, only ONE player on the dline would actually be in demand from other teams (and two of the players have actually proven that out).

The linebackers are average. They'd be good to great if Matthews could play outside.

 

[Mondio]

Perhaps not a rookie's mistake:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-arizona-cardinals-b99651967z1-365609081.html

Quote from the article above:

LINEBACKERS (3)
Twelve months ago, Julius Peppers gave the stop sign to Morgan Burnett on his fourth-quarter interception return that might have clinched victory over the Seahawks. On Saturday night, he took a nice drop on a five-man zone pressure but then inexplicably vacated his area when Carson Palmer appeared that he might run. Daniels was about to tackle Palmer, who couldn't hurt the Packers by running, anyway. A receiver in an open half of the field not only could hurt the Packers but did hurt the Packers. It was another egregious mistake by the veteran...

could have been, either way, 1 guy didn't do his job on a night when they did a lot of things right. None of these guys are perfect, I don't expect them to be. It was an extremely disappointing ending to an otherwise very hard fought game and a very good performance by the defense overall considering their opponent. So nobody kills for Raji, or Guion, or Pennel, yet they held the 120, over 4 yard per average rushing team to 40 whole yards on almost 20 carries for a 2.1 average. I'd say most teams would kill for that production from the Dline every single week.

 

[JBlood]

Maybe they need a tackling coach as well as a receivers coach?

They need coaching that takes responsibility for the performances of players. Minnesota just won the division for the first time in 6 years and the offensive line coach gets fired. Zimmer isn't satisfied with his o line; or the fact they won the division. We win the division year after year with below average offensive lines and nothing changes. Same thing goes for defense, which has been a yo-yo since 2010, ranking from 31st to 8th in DVOA. This year's model ranked 9th, and, if the pattern of the last 6 years holds true it will be a down year next year. This year's model ranked 25th in most "big plays" allowed in the league--ranking from fewest to most. (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-big-play-statistics/2015/ ) That's the Capers' genius.

 

[Sky King]

Yet another writer who hangs this mistake on Peppers...

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp.../hesitant-rodgers-erratic-right-end/78936664/

Excerpt from the GBPG link above:

Peppers’ mistake

The Packers blew the coverage on Larry Fitzgerald 75-yard catch and run on the first play of overtime that essentially won the game, and it appears the culprit was Julius Peppers.

Defensive coordinator Dom Capers blitzed both inside linebackers, Clay Matthews and Jake Ryan, up the middle, and dropped Peppers from his standing position at defensive end to cover the short middle zone along with safety Morgan Burnett. The Packers’ secondary played a three-deep zone, with one player, slot cornerback Casey Hayward, in man coverage against Michael Floyd.

Fitzgerald ran a short crossing route, and Peppers should have picked him up. But when Peppers saw Arizona’s relatively immobile quarterback, Carson Palmer, spin out of trouble and scramble to his right, Peppers vacated his zone and went after him. Palmer threw to the wide open Fitzgerald across the field, and Fitzgerald made a great run to the Packers’ 5.

If Peppers had stayed home he would have been mismatched against Fitzgerald, and Fitzgerald still might have been open. But Palmer would have had to throw over the 6-foot-7 Peppers, and by the time the ball arrived Fitzgerald wouldn’t have had all that running room. It almost certainly wouldn’t have been a big play.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Bj Raji was a free agent twice (maybe thrice?) and has settled for minimal contacts, so I'm not sure how many teams would actually kill to have him as part of their dline. Same thing is true for Guion. Teams would love Pennel? He's a good rotation player but does anyone really think he'd be expensive to re-sign? So, no, only ONE player on the dline would actually be in demand from other teams (and two of the players have actually proven that out).

The linebackers are average. They'd be good to great if Matthews could play outside.

The D-line played great all year. Raji looked like a completely different animal this year and I bet some teams will be looking at him. Is he Ngata or Vince Wilfork? No, but he's a damn good interior lineman who's had issues with his motor. Didn't have those issues this year. Guion is supremely underrated and we saw the line struggle with him out. I think you are severely underrating the D-line. They're not the best in football, but they sure as hell contributed to us having a pretty effective defense this year.

As for our linebackers being good to great with Matthews moving outside... nope, he's there for a reason and we need to find two good ILBs. Ryan is ok at run stopping, but he's a liability in coverage. We have no coverage linebacker. Also everyone in the middle plays slow as dog crap.

 

[searmh]

I think Dom deserves to stay after our defensive display this season. But part of me thinks that McCarthy dropping play calling to focus on all aspects of the squad helped the d and special teams

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The D-line played great all year. Raji looked like a completely different animal this year and I bet some teams will be looking at him. Is he Ngata or Vince Wilfork? No, but he's a damn good interior lineman who's had issues with his motor. Didn't have those issues this year. Guion is supremely underrated and we saw the line struggle with him out. I think you are severely underrating the D-line. They're not the best in football, but they sure as hell contributed to us having a pretty effective defense this year.

As for our linebackers being good to great with Matthews moving outside... nope, he's there for a reason and we need to find two good ILBs. Ryan is ok at run stopping, but he's a liability in coverage. We have no coverage linebacker. Also everyone in the middle plays slow as dog crap.

That terrific dline allowed the notoriously "mobile" Carson Palmer to scramble for the game deciding play in OT. And that's my point about Matthews in the middle, he's needed there but he's pretty much an average inside linebacker. If the Packers had a different average linebacker in the middle then Matthews could play outside and they'd be very good.

How about this, we'll see where the dline rates when free agency comes up. So far, free agency has said that the Packers have only one good player on the dline and a then a bunch of guys...though Jones is saying some potential in rushing the passer; if he can keep developing he might be the second good player on that dline.

 

[4zone]

Na, upgrade the ILB position with some real tallent

 

[JBlood]

It almost certainly wouldn’t have been a big play.

I wouldn't say "almost certainly". You have to factor in the missed tackles, and the fact that we gave up 88 big plays during the regular season (runs over 10 yds and passes over 25 yds). Only 6 teams gave up more.