Fire Capers

[Mondio]

And if the rush doesn't get there a safety is still going to have to get over the top and help on the Deep Route. The middle can't be left open deep to throw a ball to and run under. No db is going to win that alone

 

[JBlood]

bringing in more LBs for pressure

adam, if we had any LBs that could run it would help. And you don't control the LOS with 2 down linemen. The defense is a liability. It will be up to the offense to save the season--and they haven't shown up for a few weeks either.

 

[red4tribe]

In 2011, the offense was just as bad if not worse than the defense in the playoffs with 4 turnovers and only 20 points. In 2013, an injury depleted defense without Clay and many starters held a good offense to 23 while the offense put up only 20. Can't say the defense was the reason for a downfall in either of those seasons.

Eli Manning completely destroyed our defense. The offense had an off day, but the defense was crap all year and it finally caught up to us when the offense was slowed down by a good defense. And I do hold the 2013 defense responsible for that season as well. They played okay during most of the playoff game, but couldn't come up big when it mattered most. And they played terrible all season anyway, and if we had even an average defense we'd have finished probably 10-6 instead of 8-7-1.

 

[DaveRoller]

Must also be remembered that the Colts just fired their offensive coordinator and went out and laid a colossal egg against the Broncos today.

Oh wait, that did not happen, they scored 27 points against a D that a week ago looked all world against the Pack.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Def never gets rest when off is going three n out

What happens when off has long drives?

Must also be remembered that the Colts just fired their offensive coordinator and went out and laid a colossal egg against the Broncos today.

Oh wait, that did not happen, they scored 27 points against a D that a week ago looked all world against the Pack.

If a certain aspect of the game isn't producing, that coach is usually fired. The execution of a certain player or players isn't considered, since it's expected that they should be coached up to play to their potential.

I watched the Titans today, and they played with more vigor than I've seen in years. They made offensive line adjustments and protected the QB, which they haven't done all season. And they delivered in all aspects of the game when it mattered most. I'd really love to see what a different coach could do with this team.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Must also be remembered that the Colts just fired their offensive coordinator and went out and laid a colossal egg against the Broncos today.

Oh wait, that did not happen, they scored 27 points against a D that a week ago looked all world against the Pack.

Well to be fair, this is kind of an apples to oranges comparison, and Rob Chudzinski, the guy who's calling plays for Indy now had plenty of experience doing so, so Pagano kinda lucked out in having a backup.

Plus since their atrocious start, the Colts have been in crisis mode pretty much all weeks leading up till now. Even though these last 2 weeks as a Packer fan have been among some of the most aggravating, I don't think we're quite there yet.

I'll say a couple things, Capers has travelled around the league some, getting good defenses built on most teams he's been with, but he has eventually moved on in every case. I'm glad he has been here as long as he has, and I think we do owe a bit to him esp the superbowl win, but eventually it will come time to move on from him I'd say, just like the Steelers eventually moved on from Lebeau, which was no disrespect to him, I think they just wanted some newer fresher schemes.

Also I'm not saying now is the time to do so, because let's not forget about the midpoint way last year this defense threw up a stinker in the Superdome and lost bad, allowing 44 points. The rest of the way they pulled it together and played I thought good enough to have gotten us to the Superbowl. Loss in Seattle all except for the 2 pt conversion and OT touchdown was a good game for them, our O just didn't finish that game good. Special teams was a different story, but I won't go down memory lane anymore.

All that to say I'm going to let the season play out again before calling final judgment on these guys. One thing though is that I really don't feel like this defense is schemed or has the personnel to carry the weight of the football team. In other words, the way I've seen them play throughout the years is they seem to be on their game and make big plays and stops when our O is doing great, but when it's sputtering and not scoring like it should be, it really seems like they just don't get it done.

 

[adambr2]

I do think it's just time to move on. There's been some good, some bad, and it's time for a younger mind.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Anyone blaming Capers for today going to back it up with specific calls he messed up on?

I saw his normally good safety today completely mess up on 3 deep balls, one was a TD and two lead to them. That's a difference between a good and bad team performance right there.

Normally I admire your level-headedness Carl against the tendency to exaggerate everything bad. But we have seen this scenario repeated over and over again for the last 4 years now. We ought to blame the players, but it's the DC's job to get these guys playing up their potential, to develop the right scheme to fit his players, and to make changes when changes are needed. And for 4 years Capers has failed to do this. The only change of any significance was moving Clay to ILB. But now, after that improvement, the Packer defense is right back where it was when it got blown out by the SFs of the NFL.

Something is not working. Dom Capers has not turned this defense around. No, it isn't all his fault but something simply has to change. It's not working. The Packers defense is atrocious and they will never win a SB again with this.

Yes, it is the responsibility of TT (who doesn't ever seem to nab a FA or make a trade to fill a need. Peppers was the only real step he took and that's already 2 years ago). It's the responsibility of MM who always seems very conservative when it comes to adjustments, and it's the players who ought to be ashamed of how they have played.

Something is not right. Rodgers isn't right, the team isn't right...

But this organization can't keep to the same conservative approach to things if they hope to make it to a SB. And the clock is ticking.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I watched the Titans today, and they played with more vigor than I've seen in years. They made offensive line adjustments and protected the QB, which they haven't done all season. And they delivered in all aspects of the game when it mattered most. I'd really love to see what a different coach could do with this team.

I agree. I think McCarthy is a great coach, but I feel he has become complacent since winning the Super Bowl. This team might be better off with some new blood calling the shots.

 

[Shawnsta3]

The offense had an off day, but the defense was crap all year and it finally caught up to us when the offense was slowed down by a good defense. And I do hold the 2013 defense responsible for that season. They played okay during most of the playoff game, but couldn't come up big when it mattered most.

The logic used to go from the bold statements to the underlined one.. I don't quite understand.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Capers was a good coach 20 years ago, but the game has past him by. McCarthy never was good, he's been riding Rodgers.

Are you serious ???

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I agree. I think McCarthy is a great coach, but I feel he has become complacent since winning the Super Bowl. This team might be better off with some new blood calling the shots.

No, as upset as I am about things being the way they are, Mike McCarthy should not be fired and that's ridiculous to suggest. Even more so that silly statement about him riding Rodgers's coattails. To be honest, MM dealing with his brother's passing and going through some things in his life may have been why he passed off some of the tasks he normally would've held control of down to his assistants, but the man's a great coach and he needs to stay.

Now going back to Dom Capers, I did start wondering what would happen if Winston Moss took the torch there and took over defensive play calling and scheming. My thing is I like Capers' 3-4 packages, I just think there's more that could be done to get the inside linebackers running free and making more plays and have some slightly better positions in zone that our corners can be in.

 

[Carl]

Eli Manning completely destroyed our defense. The offense had an off day, but the defense was crap all year and it finally caught up to us when the offense was slowed down by a good defense. And I do hold the 2013 defense responsible for that season as well. They played okay during most of the playoff game, but couldn't come up big when it mattered most. And they played terrible all season anyway, and if we had even an average defense we'd have finished probably 10-6 instead of 8-7-1.

The offesnes wasn't. just slowed down. They were awful. They put 38 vs the same defense in the regular season. It also doesn't help a defense to give up them 4 extra possessions, one of them being inside the red zone.

And guess what seed we would have bee had we gone 10-6 in 2013? The same number 4 seed playing the same San Fran team at home.

When you hold the defense responsible for a season we played half off with a 3rd string QB, I don't think you can be rational on the subject.

There is no logical way to blame it all on Capers and the defense when there were clearly other factors involved..

 

[Carl]

Yet, it seems to be hard for us.

PFF has HHCD as the 35th ranked safety this year which I'm sure will drop after this week. 'Solid' is a stretch.

Your premise right now is taking a play that Haha totally whiffed on and saying Capers shouldn't have put him in that position to mess it up. If he can't trust his safety to be the deep guy, there's not much he can do as a play caller if he can never put him back there.

 

[Carl]

Normally I admire your level-headedness Carl against the tendency to exaggerate everything bad. But we have seen this scenario repeated over and over again for the last 4 years now. We ought to blame the players, but it's the DC's job to get these guys playing up their potential, to develop the right scheme to fit his players, and to make changes when changes are needed. And for 4 years Capers has failed to do this. The only change of any significance was moving Clay to ILB. But now, after that improvement, the Packer defense is right back where it was when it got blown out by the SFs of the NFL.

Something is not working. Dom Capers has not turned this defense around. No, it isn't all his fault but something simply has to change. It's not working. The Packers defense is atrocious and they will never win a SB again with this.

Yes, it is the responsibility of TT (who doesn't ever seem to nab a FA or make a trade to fill a need. Peppers was the only real step he took and that's already 2 years ago). It's the responsibility of MM who always seems very conservative when it comes to adjustments, and it's the players who ought to be ashamed of how they have played.

Something is not right. Rodgers isn't right, the team isn't right...

But this organization can't keep to the same conservative approach to things if they hope to make it to a SB. And the clock is ticking.

I wasn't talking about anything else over the last four years. It was pretty obvious that Haha had a terrible game and normally he does not play like that. When a player messes up badly when it's not his norm, that puts it on the player to me and not his coach.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think the Packers defensive performances since 2011 pretty much reflect the talent level of those units. It's possible having a different coordinator would result in an improved unit but it's unlikely. Thompson hasn't drafted well on that side of the ball and him all but completely ignoring free agency and trades to upgrade positions of need has left the team with below average talent on defense.

 

[red4tribe]

The logic used to go from the bold statements to the underlined one.. I don't quite understand.

I was responding to another post which said that the 2011 and 2013 defenses were not largely responsible for our disappointing seasons.

 

[red4tribe]

The offesnes wasn't. just slowed down. They were awful. They put 38 vs the same defense in the regular season. It also doesn't help a defense to give up them 4 extra possessions, one of them being inside the red zone.

And guess what seed we would have bee had we gone 10-6 in 2013? The same number 4 seed playing the same San Fran team at home.

When you hold the defense responsible for a season we played half off with a 3rd string QB, I don't think you can be rational on the subject.

There is no logical way to blame it all on Capers and the defense when there were clearly other factors involved..

Carl, I will start off my saying that I strongly respect your views and quite often you are good at creating a nice balance between those on this forum who want to fire the whole coaching staff and front office after a loss. That being said, I think you are quite incapable at times of being rational yourself, especially when discussing the defense, as you refuse to acknowledge that even the tiniest bit of blame should go to Capers. Sometimes individuals on the Packers deserve criticism and you don't seem able to accept that the coaching staff isn't always perfect. I think MM is a great coach, and that TT is a great GM, but I do not think Capers is a great DC. With the exception of the 2010 season, his defenses have been average at best, and usually much worse. That 2013 defense was the worst one rolled out during his tenure and yes, I do hold it largely responsible for that failure of a season even if there were other significant contributing factors, namely Rodgers' injury.

Capers defense is really predictable. Dominate average quarterbacks, get destroyed by good ones. It's been the case his whole tenure here.

 

[JBlood]

Thompson hasn't drafted well on that side of the ball

capt, do you think TT drafts with no input from his coaches? It may well be that Capers' evaluations and suggestions for defensive draft picks are his biggest weakness. And, as you say, with TT's reluctance to get into the free agent market it is a killer for defensive personnel.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

capt, do you think TT drafts with no input from his coaches? It may well be that Capers' evaluations and suggestions for defensive draft picks are his biggest weakness.

I'm not sure how much of an influence Capers has on Thompson's draft picks, especially after reading that the general manager finally decided to select defensive players that fit the DC's scheme only two or three years ago. I can't find the Journal Sentinel article anymore though.

 

[Half Empty]

We haven't had a "shut down" defense for quite a while, in my opinion.

Yours, and everyone else's, except for Capers and MM.

 

[Carl]

Carl, I will start off my saying that I strongly respect your views and quite often you are good at creating a nice balance between those on this forum who want to fire the whole coaching staff and front office after a loss. That being said, I think you are quite incapable at times of being rational yourself, especially when discussing the defense, as you refuse to acknowledge that even the tiniest bit of blame should go to Capers. Sometimes individuals on the Packers deserve criticism and you don't seem able to accept that the coaching staff isn't always perfect. I think MM is a great coach, and that TT is a great GM, but I do not think Capers is a great DC. With the exception of the 2010 season, his defenses have been average at best, and usually much worse. That 2013 defense was the worst one rolled out during his tenure and yes, I do hold it largely responsible for that failure of a season even if there were other significant contributing factors, namely Rodgers' injury.

Capers defense is really predictable. Dominate average quarterbacks, get destroyed by good ones. It's been the case his whole tenure here.

I acknowledge the defense and yes, Capers deserves some blame for 2013. I just wouldn't put it as the only reason the team lost that season.

 

[JBlood]

Raji had this to say:

“This tells us that when you come to play in this league, you have to come to play for the full 60 minutes, plus,” Raji said. “You can’t play a half and expect to beat good teams, expect to beat any team in this league."

Now all the defense, and the offense, need to do is play for the full 60 minutes.

Read more: http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...e9f-3890-4373-ba4c-4af21ce454f2#ixzz3r0Srgori

 

[DaveRoller]

"It started with a 59-yard completion on third-and-16 at the Carolina 26 early in the second quarter in which 33-year-old receiver Jericho Cotchery roamed completely free between two layers of defense. Capers rushed just three and Newton just waited until someone came free.

"That was a three-man rush," Clinton-Dix said. "Cam had a lot of time in the pocket, and the guy came loose."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...s-against-panthers-b99610567z1-343320972.html

 

[JP Doyal]

Well it is tough to say the weeks leading up to these 2 weeks the defense played well. I believe we lead the league in sacks up until the Denver game. I figured after the bye week and going into Denver poor Peyton was gonna get clobbered but that didn't happen at all.He was untouched most of the game and picked us apart. We made him look like the old Peyton Manning again.