Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

[Pokerbrat2000]

Let's also not forget that TT would have had to cut somebody from the roster, and it wouldn't have necessarily been at CB. They seem to like their young guys, and there is something said for getting experience for your backups before heading into the post season.

This is the part of the draft and develop philosophy that I think handcuffs TT at the expense of bettering the team. The fear of losing one of his own by going out and finding someone else's "own", a guy that just might be more talented than any other in house options. I get the notion of not wanting to lose a guy that you think has future potential, but how long do you keep him, how long do you deal with weakness at certain positions while those guys develop? Will they develop? The recent promotions of Don Jackson and Herb Waters from the PS are prime examples of this. TT trying to fill holes with untested raw players, instead of letting them continue to develop on the PS and go out and find some experience, as he finally did with Christian Michael.

The pitfall in this mentality happens in the offseason as well, when TT seems to look more at the potential of his present group of players + draftees and forgets that there are two more option out there, free agents and trades.

 

[Pkrjones]

I'm just wondering who would have been brought in, since the conclusion seems to be that it could have been done. It seems like armchair GM stuff to me. If there were threads at the time where people pointed out the viable CB options, I'd think that would be acceptable too.

Running thread towards the end of October regarding veteran CB help... https://www.packerforum.com/threads/roster-moves-this-week.69392/page-3

 

[El Guapo]

That's what I was looking for....wasn't evident from the thread title

 

[El Guapo]

This is the part of the draft and develop philosophy that I think handcuffs TT at the expense of bettering the team.

I agree

 

[PikeBadger]

A lot of posters advocated for the Packers to bring in a veteran cornerback before the trade deadline. It´s really not that hard to understand that fans don´t have the necessary information on who would have been available at that point.

FWIW Joe Haden was mentioned several times.

I think the big elephant in the room that no one is seeing is that in September (or October or even November) no one in mgmt, coaching staff, or trainers room really had the powers of a crystal ball to know the extents of all the CB injuries, how long healing would take, re-injury certainties, and how the players affected would react skillwise and mentally to the injuries. Much less the additional injuries to backups like Goodson, Hawkins and Dorleant. The 500 year flood at one position group plus playing without Burnett early on. It's a miracle they were able to make the playoffs at all adding in the injuries to Ryan, Martinez, Matthews & Perry which helped result in uneven pass rush through the middle half of the schedule. Defense ranked about 18th in yards and scoring, I'd guess. I think it shows we have decent amount of talent on the defensive side of the ball especially considering the offense wasn't very good through the first 10 games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think the big elephant in the room that no one is seeing is that in September (or October or even November) no one in mgmt, coaching staff, or trainers room really had the powers of a crystal ball to know the extents of all the CB injuries, how long healing would take, re-injury certainties, and how the players affected would react skillwise and mentally to the injuries. Much less the additional injuries to backups like Goodson, Hawkins and Dorleant. The 500 year flood at one position group plus playing without Burnett early on.

Several posters on this forum figured out early this season the secondary was in desperate need of an upgrade. It was pretty obvious without having any inside information that Shields was done and Randall and Rollins struggled. If the front office hadn't realized that by the time the trade deadline passed they should have all been fired immediately.

 

[PikeBadger]

Several posters on this forum figured out early this season the secondary was in desperate need of an upgrade. It was pretty obvious without having any inside information that Shields was done and Randall and Rollins struggled. If the front office hadn't realized that by the time the trade deadline passed they should have all been fired immediately.

Lol, your hindsight vision is impeccable and crystal ball of the highest quality. You are truly an armchair GM extraordinaire. Tell me, how does an organization replace an entire front office in midseason. Who would want to work for such an organization in those circumstances. Good grief, talk about leaping off the cliff!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Lol, your hindsight vision is impeccable and crystal ball of the highest quality.

Geez, several posters advocated for bringing in help at the cornerback position weeks before the trade deadline. That's not using hindsight to criticize Thompson for doing nothing to upgrade the position.

 

[Sky King]

I don't at all get the feeling that the majority of the posters on this forum are calling for TT's head on a platter. On the contrary, the general consensus to me seems that he's done a good to great job as GM, especially on the D&D side of the house.

The most reasonable criticism that I have noted seems to come from those who wish that he would dabble just a little more freely in free-agency. Not wholesale pick-ups of the overpriced FAs but maybe just a few more of the Jarred Cook, Julius Peppers types. I fall into that category myself. We'll never know if just one extra veteran or two here and there would have made the difference in the Packers not ending-up on the wrong side of some of those heartbreaking and too-close playoff losses.

The irony that TT may now find himself in the same position that Favre had been during that fateful offseason could be a very real scenario. Will he walk his own talk about leaving a year sooner rather than a year later?

Personally, I don't have a horse in the GM race. But up until Wolf was granted the interview with the 49er's most recently I would have comfortably bet a chunk of money on Wolf being the heir apparent to TT, and I'm not a betting man. It appeared that he was the anointed one. Now it seems like that may not be the case. It will be fascinating to watch how all this unfolds.

 

[PikeBadger]

Geez, several posters advocated for bringing in help at the cornerback position weeks before the trade deadline. That's not using hindsight to criticize Thompson for doing nothing to upgrade the position.

You know that he didn't try? How many #1 CB's are hanging around in free agency in late October? Any other teams that had injured CB's at that time which might make trading for a CB cost prohibitive? What was the training staff telling you and the other several posters?

Seriously, do you really think you are better at overall roster and the resulting cap mgmt than a front office of a team that is in the playoffs every year?!?!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You know that he didn't try? How many #1 CB's are hanging around in free agency in late October? Any other teams that had injured CB's at that time which might make trading for a CB cost prohibitive? What was the training staff telling you and the other several posters?

Seriously, do you really think you are better at overall roster and the resulting cap mgmt than a front office of a team that is in the playoffs every year?!?!

I don't care if Thompson tried to bring in a cornerback as the only thing that matters is that he didn't upgrade the position.

I don't believe that I would be able to do a better job than the Packers front office at all but I would have handled the situation at cornerback differently this season.

Seriously, do you believe Thompson made the right move by standing pat instead of bringing in a veteran cornerback to possibly improve the situation at cornerback???

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't at all get the feeling that the majority of the posters on this forum are calling for TT's head on a platter. On the contrary, the general consensus to me seems that he's done a good to great job as GM, especially on the D&D side of the house.

The most reasonable criticism that I have noted seems to come from those who wish that he would dabble just a little more freely in free-agency. Not wholesale pick-ups of the overpriced FAs but maybe just a few more of the Jarred Cook, Julius Peppers types. I fall into that category myself. We'll never know if just one extra veteran or two here and there would have made the difference in the Packers not ending-up on the wrong side of some of those heartbreaking and too-close playoff losses.

The irony that TT may now find himself in the same position that Favre had been during that fateful offseason could be a very real scenario. Will he walk his own talk about leaving a year sooner rather than a year later?

Personally, I don't have a horse in the GM race. But up until Wolf was granted the interview with the 49er's most recently I would have comfortably bet a chunk of money on Wolf being the heir apparent to TT, and I'm not a betting man. It appeared that he was the anointed one. Now it seems like that may not be the case. It will be fascinating to watch how all this unfolds.

A very reasonable viewpoint. My guess is, that they have tried and failed to get a few more selective free agents. I wouldn't imagine that any franchise has a 100% hit rate in that regard.

Imo, Peppers and Cook don't belong in the same sentence. Peppers and Woodson both were generational superstar talents whose draft ratings must have been at the top of the chart. Cook has never been anywhere near that level imo. He's a puzzle piece kind of guy who had a questionable history in the intangible department. More like Ryan Grant than Peppers. These guys sometimes work out well but should be approached carefully.

One of my biggest problems with Thompson in retrospect was the picks of Harrell and Raji. Raji should have been vetted more completely imo. There almost had to be visible red flags somewhere in his past as to his work ethic and mental makeup.

 

[PikeBadger]

I don't care if Thompson tried to bring in a cornerback as the only thing that matters is that he didn't upgrade the position.

I don't believe that I would be able to do a better job than the Packers front office at all but I would have handled the situation at cornerback differently this season.

Seriously, do you believe Thompson made the right move by standing pat instead of bringing in a veteran cornerback to possibly improve the situation at cornerback???

I can only assume that either he tried and failed, or that he was unaware of the extent of the injuries.

I seriously believe he tries harder to field the best roster he can because I think he cares a lot more and works a lot harder at it than many posters think he does.

 

[PackerDNA]

There´s absolutely no doubt Thompson has been extremely successful during his tenure with the Packers. That doesn´t mean he shouldn´t be criticized for obvious shortcomings on the roster though.

Nah, to dare to question Oz the Great and Terrible and his court is to be a chicken little or football nerd.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can only assume that either he tried and failed, or that he was unaware of the extent of the injuries.

I'm sorry but it was pretty obvious to everyone aside of the Packers front office that Shields was done. Unfortunately his injury revealed that the cornerbacks weren't as talented as expected entering the seaaon. There was enough time to address the position but once again Thompson did nothing to improve it.

As I've mentioned before, I guarantee the Patriots wouldn't have failed at adding a veteran to the roster in the same situation.

 

[Sky King]

...Imo, Peppers and Cook don't belong in the same sentence. Peppers and Woodson both were generational superstar talents whose draft ratings must have been at the top of the chart. Cook has never been anywhere near that level imo. He's a puzzle piece kind of guy who had a questionable history in the intangible department. More like Ryan Grant than Peppers. These guys sometimes work out well but should be approached carefully...

Here's how I see the value of the Cook acquisition: Would I rather see him starting at TE going into the playoffs and R. Rodgers backing him up, or would I have preferred to see R. Rodgers starting in the playoffs and former Packer Justin Perillo backing him up?

Easy choice for me, and Cook's not even close to a generational superstar. That's my point. He doesn't need to be in order to better fill a need.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

While I generally like the Packer way of doing things, I disagree here. Shields was injured week 1, replacements were not playing well for several weeks after and Shields was placed on IR on Oct. 18, I believe. That did leave several weeks before the trade deadline to get someone. I would have liked to see us use some leftover cap $ and bring in a competent replacement. I also value draft picks, but sometimes you have to make a bold move and this would have been a great opportunity. I am against throwing crazy money at first day F/A's, but as stated earlier, this season we didn't need a Joe Haden, just someone competent enough to play the position.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I also value draft picks, but sometimes you have to make a bold move and this would have been a great opportunity. I am against throwing crazy money at first day F/A's, but as stated earlier, this season we didn't need a Joe Haden, just someone competent enough to play the position.

The Packers could have even received a compensatory pick in return if they traded for a player whose contract expired at the end of this season. With Shields most likely being released the team could have afforded to trade for Haden as well.

 

[gonzozab]

What about Trent Baalke as GM? If TT leaves somehow..

This is a joke, right?

 

[longtimefan]

What about Trent Baalke as GM? If TT leaves somehow..

Yikes..

What makes you want him?

 

[gonzozab]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/05/interest-in-wolf-could-force-green-bays-hand-at-g-m/

Sorry if this was posted already, but I thought it was worth it as Florio wrote that there is friction between TT and MM over TT's constant refusal to sign free agents. Take it for what it's worth considering it's Florio. I've cooled off on wanting MM fired but I will never budge on wanting TT gone. Git er done and let's bring in Wolf.

 

[Mondio]

I think Florio likes to embellish things to gain readership. Very much in the vein of today's standards for "journalism", therefore I click on nothing that has his name attached to it. Whatever he has to say won't make a difference if i read it today or tomorrow and by tomorrow someone more respected will report it better if there's anything to it.

 

[PackerDNA]

I think Florio likes to embellish things to gain readership. Very much in the vein of today's standards for "journalism", therefore I click on nothing that has his name attached to it. Whatever he has to say won't make a difference if i read it today or tomorrow and by tomorrow someone more respected will report it better if there's anything to it.

So someone 'more respected' will report it- after they've been scooped by Florio?

 

[Mondio]

when you're scooping ********, does it count?

 

[Vince Lombardi]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/05/interest-in-wolf-could-force-green-bays-hand-at-g-m/

Sorry if this was posted already, but I thought it was worth it as Florio wrote that there is friction between TT and MM over TT's constant refusal to sign free agents. Take it for what it's worth considering it's Florio. I've cooled off on wanting MM fired but I will never budge on wanting TT gone. Git er done and let's bring in Wolf.

There was a similar article in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel last year about friction between the 2. Maybe its not friction but I believe its frustration for MM at the very least. If I recall the article correctly it also talked about the frustration of the scouting department (Eliot Wolf in particular) over Ted not signing anyone during the season. The scouting department weekly would give him a report of players available who they researched and Ted would routinely say no. While I appreciate what TT has done it may be time to move on to someone younger and more flexible in their thinking!