Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

[Sky King]

Okay, lets trade Aaron Rodgers. The Packer system has produced 2 HOF QBs in a row. Might as well hand the reigns over to Hundley. Rodgers will retire eventually and we may lose Hundley in the meantime.

I didn't think anyone could divert down an alternative path so quickly driving a horse-drawn carriage.

 

[AmishMafia]

I didn't think anyone could divert down an alternative path so quickly driving a horse-drawn carriage.

Nice. But to me the logic is the same. Keep the best in the game as long as we can because the alternative is an unknown and has very little chance of being as good as what we have now.

Several GMs get hired each year and it is a crap shoot. Most fail to get their team to the SB. Most bring as much promise and excitement as Wolf but just dont live up to the hype. The job is much more than player decisions. Its about organization skills, managing people, resources, leadership, policy, corporate tone, atmosphere, planning, etc. There is a lot to the position and takes much more than football knowledge.

 

[Sky King]

Nice. But to me the logic is the same. Keep the best in the game as long as we can because the alternative is an unknown and has very little chance of being as good as what we have now.

Several GMs get hired each year and it is a crap shoot. Most fail to get their team to the SB. Most bring as much promise and excitement as Wolf but just dont live up to the hype. The job is much more than player decisions. Its about organization skills, managing people, resources, leadership, policy, corporate tone, atmosphere, planning, etc. There is a lot to the position and takes much more than football knowledge.

That's what mentoring addresses. The track record of past Packer front office people groomed under Thompson has resulted in the emergence of several highly successful GMs. With that in mind there's no reason to think that Thompson has somehow neglected to groom Elliott Wolf or Brian Gutekunst to be successful practitioners of any of those disciplines that you have mentioned.

 

[El Guapo]

One could look at in an alternative light, that all of these guys still on staff and those that have left are men that Ron Wolf hired (except for his son). Wolf saw something in them and pulled the trigger on their qualities as they existed pre-Packers. Elliot is here by virtue of his dad. I'm not taking anything away from him at all, just pointing out that one could say that Wolf or Thompson groomed these guys, but Wolf picked all of them for the talent or promise that each showed before coming to the Packers.

 

[longtimefan]

Elliot did scoring in high school and gave grades to players.. And was good at it

 

[Sky King]

One could look at in an alternative light, that all of these guys still on staff and those that have left are men that Ron Wolf hired (except for his son). Wolf saw something in them and pulled the trigger on their qualities as they existed pre-Packers. Elliot is here by virtue of his dad. I'm not taking anything away from him at all, just pointing out that one could say that Wolf or Thompson groomed these guys, but Wolf picked all of them for the talent or promise that each showed before coming to the Packers.

Well, he did buy Elliott's Mom a ring, so they go way back.

 

[easyk83]

That's what mentoring addresses. The track record of past Packer front office people groomed under Thompson has resulted in the emergence of several highly successful GMs. With that in mind there's no reason to think that Thompson has somehow neglected to groom Elliott Wolf or Brian Gutekunst to be successful practitioners of any of those disciplines that you have mentioned.

Also would Ted Thompson have spent the amount of time grooming Eliott Wolf if he wasnt a first rate football man? I don't think Ted would position Wolf as an eventual replacement just to appease the fans or as a favor to a friend.

 

[Vince Lombardi]

Also would Ted Thompson have spent the amount of time grooming Eliott Wolf if he wasnt a first rate football man? I don't think Ted would position Wolf as an eventual replacement just to appease the fans or as a favor to a friend.

Not to mention they have promoted Wolf a couple of times. You don't do that unless you see some potential. The fact that he has been mentored by Ted & has his Dad as a resource makes him a valuable candidate to become the next GM here!

 

[PikeBadger]

I find it ironic that we have so many anti-Thompson people here that want to jump on every perceived mistake that Thompson has ever made and yet teams across the league are always interested in interviewing and hiring just about every guy just below Thompson on the org chart. Some of these franchises are apparently picking up on things the way the Packers do business. It also seems that more teams are placing a higher value on draft picks than they used to.

 

[AmishMafia]

Not to mention they have promoted Wolf a couple of times. You don't do that unless you see some potential. The fact that he has been mentored by Ted & has his Dad as a resource makes him a valuable candidate to become the next GM here!

If you trust the Packers opinion to promote him, why dont you trust their opinion to let him go?

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

If you trust the Packers opinion to promote him, why dont you trust their opinion to let him go?

stop being logical immediately

 

[PackerDNA]

I find it ironic that we have so many anti-Thompson people here that want to jump on every perceived mistake that Thompson has ever made and yet teams across the league are always interested in interviewing and hiring just about every guy just below Thompson on the org chart. Some of these franchises are apparently picking up on things the way the Packers do business. It also seems that more teams are placing a higher value on draft picks than they used to.

Outside of the "fire everybody" types, I don't think there's an anti Thompson thing going on. IMO, it leans more towards the views of guys like CaptainWimm and myself who merely want him to get off his *** and be a full time GM.
Also;
-How do we know how to give so much credit to TT for guys like Schroeder, McKenzie and Dorsey, since their m.o.'s are different than his?
-How sure are we that Wolf is going to be a great GM?
-It would be a mistake to lose Wolf- or miss out on any other candidates- just for the reason of Thompson not wanting to leave for 2 or 3 more years. I've been on record- and stick with my opinion- that TT should be gone after this year, as I firmly believe this team will continue to decline at this point under him. His methods no longer fit this teams needs to remain/ become again a legit SB contender. The holes will only get bigger under a strict regimen of draft and develop.

 

[AmishMafia]

That's what mentoring addresses. The track record of past Packer front office people groomed under Thompson has resulted in the emergence of several highly successful GMs. With that in mind there's no reason to think that Thompson has somehow neglected to groom Elliott Wolf or Brian Gutekunst to be successful practitioners of any of those disciplines that you have mentioned.

Tale of the tape.

Reggie Mclenzie in Oakland since 2012: 30-50. 0 playoff games (soon to change), 0 div titles.

John Dorsey in Chiefs since 2013: 43-21; 1-2 playoffs and 1 div title.

Schneider in Seattle since 2010: 70-41; 7-4 playoffs; 4 div titles; 1 SB

Ted Thompson since 2010: 76-35; 7-5 playoffs: 5 div titles; 1 SB

None of the mentored proteges have been more successful than Thompson. You can argue some stats are similar, but overall TT has been more successful. Consider also he was disadvantaged by drafting generally later than the others and paying a franchise QB.

 

[PackerDNA]

Tale of the tape.

Reggie Mclenzie in Oakland since 2012: 30-50. 0 playoff games (soon to change), 0 div titles.

John Dorsey in Chiefs since 2013: 43-21; 1-2 playoffs and 1 div title.

Schneider in Seattle since 2010: 70-41; 7-4 playoffs; 4 div titles; 1 SB

Ted Thompson since 2010: 76-35; 7-5 playoffs: 5 div titles; 1 SB

None of the mentored proteges have been more successful than Thompson. You can argue some stats are similar, but overall TT has been more successful. Consider also he was disadvantaged by drafting generally later than the others and paying a franchise QB.

If you want to take the other guys entire records- including taking over floundering franchises and the time needed to turn them around- then do the same with TT.

 

[PikeBadger]

Outside of the "fire everybody" types, I don't think there's an anti Thompson thing going on. IMO, it leans more towards the views of guys like CaptainWimm and myself who merely want him to get off his *** and be a full time GM.
Also;
-How do we know how to give so much credit to TT for guys like Schroeder, McKenzie and Dorsey, since their m.o.'s are different than his?
-How sure are we that Wolf is going to be a great GM?
-It would be a mistake to lose Wolf- or miss out on any other candidates- just for the reason of Thompson not wanting to leave for 2 or 3 more years. I've been on record- and stick with my opinion- that TT should be gone after this year, as I firmly believe this team will continue to decline at this point under him. His methods no longer fit this teams needs to remain/ become again a legit SB contender. The holes will only get bigger under a strict regimen of draft and develop.

Lol, agree. I think Thompson spends too much time kibitzing around the water cooler and galavanting around the Caribbean while pretending to be a GM. *sarcasm*

I doubt he's holding a gun to Murphy's head to stay around however long he wants. I think I see him as a different kind of guy than many here judging from many of the comments I've seen on this forum.

 

[AmishMafia]

Outside of the "fire everybody" types, I don't think there's an anti Thompson thing going on. IMO, it leans more towards the views of guys like CaptainWimm and myself who merely want him to get off his *** and be a full time GM.
Also;
-How do we know how to give so much credit to TT for guys like Schroeder, McKenzie and Dorsey, since their m.o.'s are different than his?
-How sure are we that Wolf is going to be a great GM?
-It would be a mistake to lose Wolf- or miss out on any other candidates- just for the reason of Thompson not wanting to leave for 2 or 3 more years. I've been on record- and stick with my opinion- that TT should be gone after this year, as I firmly believe this team will continue to decline at this point under him. His methods no longer fit this teams needs to remain/ become again a legit SB contender. The holes will only get bigger under a strict regimen of draft and develop.

The team is in decline? They were SB favorites this year and have climbed back into the conversation even after a ton of injuries.

What you are missing is the TT method keeps the Packers very competitive year after year.

 

[PackerDNA]

The team is in decline? They were SB favorites this year and have climbed back into the conversation even after a ton of injuries.

What you are missing is the TT method keeps the Packers very competitive year after year.

So some writers or whoever declare them a SB favorite and-shazam!- they are? They're legit title contenders because they're" in the conversation?" This team struggles to make the playoffs, and yes, is in decline.
What you're missing is that the same methods keep them from getting over the hump, and result in this team treading water instead of actually being contenders.

 

[AmishMafia]

So some writers or whoever declare them a SB favorite and-shazam!- they are? They're legit title contenders because they're" in the conversation?" This team struggles to make the playoffs, and yes, is in decline.
What you're missing is that the same methods keep them from getting over the hump, and result in this team treading water instead of actually being contenders.

What team was ever guaranteed a SB victory going into the season? The GMs job is to supply the talent to put them into a position to compete for the SB. Which, like it or not, TT has done more consistently than any other GM except Belichck over the course of his career.

 

[PackerDNA]

That's the fallback mantra of everyone who supports TT- there's no guarantees. What you miss is there's a better chance if you are more aggressive and use all the tools of the trade as opposed to Thompson's way.
I would also submit that the guys mentioned have been as or more successful than TT in shorter amounts of time while inheriting as big or bigger messes. TT's been more successful? Schneider's been to twice as many SB's in half the time.

 

[Scotland Yard]

Randall and Rollins are starting to look like two more high draft picks wasted by TT on his leaky defense. Coupled with letting House and Hayward walk, when they were viable alternatives to Randall and Rollins being selected in the first place, it is looking like TT made some serious errors here (although you must be fair in giving him credit for drafting House & Hayward to begin with).

E. Wolf has had a hand in pro scouting I believe. Cook and Peppers have worked out well. Rumors are around about others that TT just wouldn't spend on.

Finally, I remember when R. Wolf retired. It caught Harlan by surprise, he had no plan in place to replace Wolf, then panicked and we ended up with GM/HC M. Sherman. TT could retire at any time just like R. Wolf did.

So, if Murphy's plan is to promote E. Wolf to GM when TT retires, he may have to push TT aside, or, risk not having either one of them one year from now.

 

[longtimefan]

Mark has a plan in place

 

[PackerDNA]

Mark has a plan in place

I sometimes wonder exactly what the hell it is that Mark does.

 

[Scotland Yard]

Mark has a plan in place

Yeah, he's publicly stated as much. I didn't mean to infer he doesn't have a plan. Merely that said plan could be getting blown up in SF right now unless Murphy acts soon. Which places him in a predicament similar to Harlan in that we have a coach we want to keep, so, we need a GM that wants to keep MM...presumably an in house promotion is amenable to that situation, but, if you keep losing your in house talent your plan kind of goes up in smoke, right?

 

[PackerDNA]

I don't see Coach Mike walking because Ted gets fired and a guy in his 30's replaces him. Too much cutting off your own nose to spite your face in that.

 

[Vince Lombardi]

If you trust the Packers opinion to promote him, why dont you trust their opinion to let him go?

Where did I say I don't trust the Packers opinion to let him go. And how do you know they want to let him go. They really can't stop him from interviewing for a GM job because its not a lateral move. I just would hate to see him leave IF the Packers view him as a viable replacement for Ted. If Ted is only planning on sticking around for 2 more years maybe Green Bay will use his philosophy & get rid of him 1 year early