Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

PackerDNA

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Where did I say I don't trust the Packers opinion to let him go. And how do you know they want to let him go. They really can't stop him from interviewing for a GM job because its not a lateral move. I just would hate to see him leave IF the Packers view him as a viable replacement for Ted. If Ted is only planning on sticking around for 2 more years maybe Green Bay will use his philosophy & get rid of him 1 year early :)


What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?:D
 

Sky King

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Tale of the tape.

Reggie Mclenzie in Oakland since 2012: 30-50. 0 playoff games (soon to change), 0 div titles.

John Dorsey in Chiefs since 2013: 43-21; 1-2 playoffs and 1 div title.

Schneider in Seattle since 2010: 70-41; 7-4 playoffs; 4 div titles; 1 SB

Ted Thompson since 2010: 76-35; 7-5 playoffs: 5 div titles; 1 SB

None of the mentored proteges have been more successful than Thompson. You can argue some stats are similar, but overall TT has been more successful. Consider also he was disadvantaged by drafting generally later than the others and paying a franchise QB.
Frankly, I'm not sure what you're arguing for (or against), Amish. Nor why you are comparing TT's record to that of his former proteges. I'm not seeing the point relative to our earlier exchange.

Sooner or later TT is going to retire. Regardless if it's sooner or later it stands to reason that it will be a member of his current staff that will eventually replace him, somebody he helped groom as his replacement. Former members of his staff (that had once been groomed by TT) already have their GM jobs secured, so they don't need TT's job.

Everybody on the team is going to get replaced eventually, including the current GM. MM, Capers, Daniels, Matthews, and even the iconic Rodgers will all follow suit someday. If our forum insider's rumor is accurate, and nothing changes TT's mind during the interim, then TT may be retiring as soon as within the year. If not, then it may happen at the end of his current contract term which would be around 2018, if I'm not mistaken. And if I'm not correct on that point then some poster will quickly pounce on that error for sure. But it really doesn't matter. TT is far nearer to the end of his tenure in Green Bay than he is to its beginning and that's what makes this week's developments so interesting.

The questions being pondered by me are these: Of the remaining in-house candidates that may eventually replace TT who seems to be the best choice of all? What would happen if that particular candidate were to be offered a GM position with another team ahead of TT's timetable for stepping down? Would TT retire "a year too early rather than a year too late"? Walk the talk, if you will.

For a while it seemed as though Elliott Wolf was the heir apparent. Two things occurred that caused me to presume that:

First, the Packer organization denied the Lions an opportunity to interview Wolf last year for their GM position. I'm somewhat mystified that they would deny such an interview if they did not have future plans for Wolf themselves. Otherwise, it would be really bad form to hold him back from advancing within his profession.

Second, the Packer organization has since given Wolf a title that would imply that he will be TT's eventual successor and they did so in order to retain him until TT retires.

Despite the two points above the Packers have now granted the 49er's an opportunity to interview Wolf for their GM opening. Brian Gutekunst, too. Why now and not last year? That seems counter-intuitive if the intention is for Wolf to actually replace TT in the relatively near future. Does the team now plan to extend TT's contract beyond 2018? Have Wolf and Gutekunst somehow fallen out of favor with TT or others in the organization? Has Wolf become impatient waiting for a GM opportunity in Green Bay to finally open-up for him and he now wants out? Gutekunst I can understand would take his opportunity wherever he could find it. Wolf is a head-scratcher to me. He seemed like he was the golden boy.
 

childerm

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The team is in decline? They were SB favorites this year and have climbed back into the conversation even after a ton of injuries.

What you are missing is the TT method keeps the Packers very competitive year after year.

Correction: it's Aaron Rodgers that keeps the Packers competitive year after year, not TTs almost exclusive draft and develop method.

TT is a fine GM but he does not use everything at his disposal to upgrade the roster and fix holes. When he finally does upgrade a position it's usually 2 or 3 years too late. That almost cost them a playoff stop this year.

Now no one knows if Wolf will be a good GM or not, but I highly doubt they would have been grooming him to be the next GM if the people in charge didn't think he would be a good at it.
 

easyk83

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I find it ironic that we have so many anti-Thompson people here that want to jump on every perceived mistake that Thompson has ever made and yet teams across the league are always interested in interviewing and hiring just about every guy just below Thompson on the org chart. Some of these franchises are apparently picking up on things the way the Packers do business. It also seems that more teams are placing a higher value on draft picks than they used to.

This board is full of football nerds who like to play armchair GM. When Teddy doesn't draft the player they want well then he's an idiot. Same story if TT doesn't pick up a desired FA or lets a well liked player go.
 

bigbubbatd

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Do people realize how quick TT would get a job if he left GB and wanted another job?i get he is not a perfect gm but he is highly regarded and would be hired immediately. Google gm rankings and the first 8 lists had Ted ranked from 2 to 7. I quit looking after that.

Ted isn't perfect and it may be time to move on but Packer fans need to quit acting like he is a bad gm or even an average one.
 
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Tale of the tape.

Reggie Mclenzie in Oakland since 2012: 30-50. 0 playoff games (soon to change), 0 div titles.

John Dorsey in Chiefs since 2013: 43-21; 1-2 playoffs and 1 div title.

Schneider in Seattle since 2010: 70-41; 7-4 playoffs; 4 div titles; 1 SB

Ted Thompson since 2010: 76-35; 7-5 playoffs: 5 div titles; 1 SB

None of the mentored proteges have been more successful than Thompson. You can argue some stats are similar, but overall TT has been more successful. Consider also he was disadvantaged by drafting generally later than the others and paying a franchise QB.

The main difference being that none of the mentored proteges of Thompson have had a future Hall of Fame quarterback on the roster.

Randall and Rollins are starting to look like two more high draft picks wasted by TT on his leaky defense. Coupled with letting House and Hayward walk, when they were viable alternatives to Randall and Rollins being selected in the first place, it is looking like TT made some serious errors here (although you must be fair in giving him credit for drafting House & Hayward to begin with).

The salary cap makes it extremely tough for a team to re-sign all of their free agents. It was the right move at the time to let House and Hayward walk away in free agency.

Despite the two points above the Packers have now granted the 49er's an opportunity to interview Wolf for their GM opening. Brian Gutekunst, too. Why now and not last year? That seems counter-intuitive if the intention is for Wolf to actually replace TT in the relatively near future. Does the team now plan to extend TT's contract beyond 2018? Have Wolf and Gutekunst somehow fallen out of favor with TT or others in the organization? Has Wolf become impatient waiting for a GM opportunity in Green Bay to finally open-up for him and he now wants out? Gutekunst I can understand would take his opportunity wherever he could find it. Wolf is a head-scratcher to me. He seemed like he was the golden boy.

It´s possible both Wolf´s and Gutekunst´s contracts only run through this season and therefore the Packers don´t have the opportunity to block them from interviewing for other jobs.
 

Mondio

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It's true, none of them have Rodgers. But they have guys that look like they're going places at other positions. Each situation is unique. Having the man is a blessing, having to pay him and maintain a solid roster is tough long term. Getting all pro performance from a lower round draft pick and paying him less than a million a year for a while has it's benefits. Picking high in the draft for a few years has its benefits. Having zero expectations of winning and being able to cut cap, create room and rebuild without the howls has its benefits.

I think all these guys have done a great job. None are perfect.
 

bigbubbatd

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It's true, none of them have Rodgers. But they have guys that look like they're going places at other positions. Each situation is unique. Having the man is a blessing, having to pay him and maintain a solid roster is tough long term. Getting all pro performance from a lower round draft pick and paying him less than a million a year for a while has it's benefits. Picking high in the draft for a few years has its benefits. Having zero expectations of winning and being able to cut cap, create room and rebuild without the howls has its benefits.

I think all these guys have done a great job. None are perfect.

I am trying to figure out who would be considered a successful gm by people on this board. Is it just the guys in NE, Seattle and denver
 
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I am trying to figure out who would be considered a successful gm by people on this board. Is it just the guys in NE, Seattle and denver

There´s absolutely no doubt Thompson has been extremely successful during his tenure with the Packers. That doesn´t mean he shouldn´t be criticized for obvious shortcomings on the roster though.
 

bigbubbatd

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There´s absolutely no doubt Thompson has been extremely successful during his tenure with the Packers. That doesn´t mean he shouldn´t be criticized for obvious shortcomings on the roster though.

I completely agree. He has made mistakes. Some are obvious. Others seem blown out of proportion. I have said in other places I am fine if the Packers move on from TT but he should go down as one of the best gms in franchise history. Where we are at as a team would be a dream for any future gm and TT would get hired in no time if he said he still wanted to gm. This board can tend to make TT look like a terrible gm and that simply isn't true. I wonder how different he would be perceived if the Packers don't collapse against Seattle and win that Super bowl
 

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Obviously, he'd be much more beloved. It's all about results. This team, with Rodgers, has won the big prize only once. Lots of discussion can ensue, but that part is fact.
 
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bigbubbatd

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Obviously, he'd be much more beloved. It's all about results. This team, with Rodgers, has won the big prize only once. Lots of discussion can ensue, but that part is fact.

I agree and that will be the blemish on his legacy. I do feel like there is a segment that wouldn't care if he had a second bc it is about immediate results and some will never get over what happened with Favre. The hard part about this year is I think this team was primed for a super bowl run until our cb group got decimated by injury and regression. And let's not forget this team would probably be 12-4 or better if our other worldly qb wasn't below average the first half of the season.
 
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The hard part about this year is I think this team was primed for a super bowl run until our cb group got decimated by injury and regression.

Yet Thompson decided to stand pat and do absolutely nothing to upgrade the cornerback position during this season. Examples like that are the reason TT is criticized by a large portion of Packers fans.
 

easyk83

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Yet Thompson decided to stand pat and do absolutely nothing to upgrade the cornerback position during this season. Examples like that are the reason TT is criticized by a large portion of Packers fans.

Cornerback was perceived as a likely strength coming into this year. Shields was a good number 1 and Randall Rollins were well received after their rookie campaign. Behind them you had reliable backups like Hyde and Gunter. This is a classic hindsight argument.
 
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Cornerback was perceived as a likely strength coming into this year. Shields was a good number 1 and Randall Rollins were well received after their rookie campaign. Behind them you had reliable backups like Hyde and Gunter. This is a classic hindsight argument.

I agree that the cornerback position was a perceived strength entering this season but it became abundantly clear after a few games that it was in need of an upgrade. I guarantee that the Patriots would have reacted in some way during the season but Thompson decided it was best to stand pat. Unfortunately therefore cornerback is the team´s biggest weakness entering the playoffs.
 

GreenBaySlacker

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I agree that the cornerback position was a perceived strength entering this season but it became abundantly clear after a few games that it was in need of an upgrade. I guarantee that the Patriots would have reacted in some way during the season but Thompson decided it was best to stand pat. Unfortunately therefore cornerback is the team´s biggest weakness entering the playoffs.
I agree. If it was my job to keep a roster stacked. And I lose my stud leader for the year, and my two young replacements have injuries. etc. I go out and find a CB. I don't maneuver a way to circumnavigate the problem, so that I don't have to do anything... That's pretty much banking on good luck happening, after all you have seen is bad luck the first half the season.

On the other hand. He has to look at the team as a whole. When injuries happen the next guys steps up... well who would believe that better than the guy who drafted and developed these back ups? He has hired and developed coaches that can compensate with scheme. Testing his depth gives him an idea if he wants to keep them next year. Testing his young leaders in the secondary. Showing them what its like to have to play while compensating for weaknesses... Theres a lot to be gained by learning the hard way... GB always seems to approach things this way. IMO in the back of their minds they know they will make the playoffs. So they play through the hard knocks to develop their young players faster.

This year we almost blew the season because all the CBs got hurt (iMO). And here we are entering the playoffs with all our CBs banged up. If we lose, it will surely be because our defense starts bleeding out because the CBs just aren't there.
 

Pkrjones

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Cornerback was perceived as a likely strength coming into this year. Shields was a good number 1 and Randall Rollins were well received after their rookie campaign. Behind them you had reliable backups like Hyde and Gunter. This is a classic hindsight argument.
After the first 2 games, with Shields out with another concussion AND potential-laden-sophomores Randall/Rollins getting torched by Minnesota TT knew that CB would be a weak spot moving forward. "Reliable" backup Hyde is a FA after '16 so he may or may not have been in the long-range plans, either.

It didn't take hindsight for 99% of us (or probably the Packer front office) to realize the defensive backfield needed help. TT & the coaches trusted their depth and abilities to weather the storm... and it may sink the playoff-ship. The 2016 trade deadline was after week 8 (& the Atlanta loss). There was plenty of time for a savvy vet with some gas still in his tank to be brought in and there was enough cap room available (I know, there's NEVER enough).
 

El Guapo

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I'm in the camp that our secondary was a major strength heading into this season. Injuries changed that drastically. Yes, Belichick would have brought in a vet to kick the tires. I would ask those critical to point out the specific player that they would have brought onto the team. I'm merely skeptical that there was an adequate free agent to bring in. Let's also not forget that TT would have had to cut somebody from the roster, and it wouldn't have necessarily been at CB. They seem to like their young guys, and there is something said for getting experience for your backups before heading into the post season.

The real question would be whether they stay healthy down the stretch. Not looking good so far.
 
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I'm in the camp that our secondary was a major strength heading into this season. Injuries changed that drastically. Yes, Belichick would have brought in a vet to kick the tires. I would ask those critical to point out the specific player that they would have brought onto the team. I'm merely skeptical that there was an adequate free agent to bring in. Let's also not forget that TT would have had to cut somebody from the roster, and it wouldn't have necessarily been at CB. They seem to like their young guys, and there is something said for getting experience for your backups before heading into the post season.

I´m absolutely convinced that Thompson could have traded for a veteran cornerback before the trade deadline. He could even have acquired a player whose contract ends after this season receiving a compensatory pick in the process making up for the lost draft pick in a trade. It´s ridiculous to suggest posters to come up with a name as I don´t have access to other general managers on who might have been available.
 
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So it's not equally ridiculous to suggest that we all believe there was a magic solution that was rejected?

Bringing in a veteran cornerback to improve a position desperately in need of an upgrade is a pretty easy approach for a solution and doesn´t require any magic.
 

El Guapo

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I'm just wondering who would have been brought in, since the conclusion seems to be that it could have been done. It seems like armchair GM stuff to me. If there were threads at the time where people pointed out the viable CB options, I'd think that would be acceptable too.
 
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I'm just wondering who would have been brought in, since the conclusion seems to be that it could have been done. It seems like armchair GM stuff to me. If there were threads at the time where people pointed out the viable CB options, I'd think that would be acceptable too.

A lot of posters advocated for the Packers to bring in a veteran cornerback before the trade deadline. It´s really not that hard to understand that fans don´t have the necessary information on who would have been available at that point.

FWIW Joe Haden was mentioned several times.
 
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