Dumervile to Green Bay?

[Mondio]

sharing thoughts and ideas is fine and welcomed But it's the tone

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I think talking about the why's and how's is fun, but like someone else said, when it gets reduced down to basically some very good guys now just suck or can't do their job it's kind of pointless. I'm a fan of the big picture and a fan of the details. Our defense was an issue, and there are 10 different reasons for it. I can appreciate the struggle from both ends, front office and coaching and the players themselves trying to perform trying to get it corrected last year. I can also step back and see just how difficult that job was, and they didn't get it done.

They must do better, they have to find a way to get it done. But when the details then become, well Ted didn't do his job. i just say whatever. It doesn't take into account or an appreciation for what he has done or the constraints he has to make it work. It's just "ted should have made a trade". I can get behind that, sounds ****ing great actually. But when time frames are considered, costs to current and future rosters are considered, costs to cap, return on investment and the 20 other variables that must be accounted for, suddenly the reasons why we didn't trade for a guy like Hayden make so much sense it hurts. and then i get told, well Ted should have done something else. Well maybe, to which I ask then what and I'm told it's not our job to know, it's his. and I can buy that, but then I say if it's not your job to know, why do so many act like they do?

Just like when people say we win because of Rodgers, I think it cheapens every last thing about football that makes it great. I think it cheapens the wins and ruins the beauty of the game and competition. I have zero issues talking about the details and possible scenarios. I think there's been some fairly decent commentary behind some of the blame Dom threads. There are also a lot that really don't take into account the big picture when people say he needs to go too.

I think the majority of Ted and McCarthy threads lack much of anything of value. By October last year people wanted to fire Mike and trade Aaron. and not just 1 or 2. all failed to take into account the details and big picture and just wanted to blame someone. They'll be back blaming someone else again and again fail to appreciate the situation the team, players and coaches find themselves. some by their own doing, some because it's football and they won't be able to differentiate between either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

sharing thoughts and ideas is fine and welcomed But it's the tone

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Christopher Walken has quite the tone.....I rarely understand fully what he is saying, unless I have the subtitles on.

While it's impossible to keep track of everyone's posts or thoughts, what may seem like a "this guy sucks rant" in one post, may also be a culmination of many posts or thoughts by that poster, setting what you call a "tone" of discontent. Rather than repeat the specifics of why the guy sucks, their posts start getting reduced to "he just sucks". That may not cover every poster here, but it covers a lot of of the "Ted and DC haters." While I don't always agree with people's conclusions, I accept that they just didn't wake up that morning, decide TT and/or DC sucks and rush to post it on here.

 

[Guacamole]

Talk about way off topic.

Is Dumerville coming here or not?

 

[Sky King]

And Guacamole gets us back on...ah...er...point(s).

 

[Dantés]

While I get what you are saying Mondio, aren't forums about people sharing their thoughts and ideas, no matter how wild some might think they are? Like I said, we aren't running the Packers. Nothing written here does squat, it's just a bunch of Packer fans throwing things at the wall. We all have varying degrees of confidence in what we write, if that offends someone, then they really shouldn't be reading a fan forum and if they choose to, why are they complaining about having to read it?

Personally, I think that a certain combination of ignorance and posting frequency should be bannable. I'm far more offended by someone saying we should convert Elvis Dumervil to 3-4 end than getting into their political views.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For example last year and the situation at DB. Lots happened, lots was happening every week.

Anyway, a DB with the last name Hayden was a name tossed out repeatedly that ted should have traded for. He performed as well as Randall and more than a few would have had us give multiple draft picks AND take his 10+ million dollar a year salary.

By years end it was apparent we couldn't overcome injuries and the production on the field wasn't what it needed to be. For a lot of reasons, but what also was very apparent was the Packers had no business trading picks for Hayden for even a league minimum salary let alone being in the hook for 10+ million per.

Haden was only brought up as an example to possibly improve the cornerback position during last season as the Browns reportedly shopped him.

BTW it was abundantly clear long before the end of the season that the Packers needed a significant upgrade at CB.

Our defense was an issue, and there are 10 different reasons for it. I can appreciate the struggle from both ends, front office and coaching and the players themselves trying to perform trying to get it corrected last year. I can also step back and see just how difficult that job was, and they didn't get it done.

That is all that matters though, they didn't get the job done. Would it have been difficult to trade for a cornerback presenting an upgrade??? You betcha!!! Impossble??? Not by any means!!! The bottom line being that while I agree that Thompson had an extremely tough task ahead of him he's getting paid a ton of money to make moves like that and he failed.

Just to clarify as you seem to have trouble understanding it, I'm in no way saying he sucks as I've stated repeatedly that overall I consider him a very successful general manager but there's no doubt he was wrong about not addressing the position in 2016.

They must do better, they have to find a way to get it done. But when the details then become, well Ted didn't do his job. i just say whatever. It doesn't take into account or an appreciation for what he has done or the constraints he has to make it work. It's just "ted should have made a trade". I can get behind that, sounds ******* great actually. But when time frames are considered, costs to current and future rosters are considered, costs to cap, return on investment and the 20 other variables that must be accounted for, suddenly the reasons why we didn't trade for a guy like Hayden make so much sense it hurts. and then i get told, well Ted should have done something else. Well maybe, to which I ask then what and I'm told it's not our job to know, it's his. and I can buy that, but then I say if it's not your job to know, why do so many act like they do?

You continue to ignore that none of the posters around here can pick up the phone and call other team's general managers to acquire about a specific player but reject any discussion that Thompson should have traded for a CB solely based on fans not being able to come up with a name.

 

[sschind]

Talk about way off topic.

Is Dumerville coming here or not?

He is if Ted doesn't suck. There, back on topic and getting in the Ted sucks angle.


Seriously, I agree with mondio. There are many football savvy posters here, many know far more than I do but I still don't think they know as much as Ted or Mike or Dom or any number of Packer coaches or personnel do about individual players and what it takes to run a football team. Some think Ted does nothing during free agency (this season possibly not withstanding) but I'd be willing to bet anything he knows every player that is available and even some who are not. Just because he doesn't sign or traded for the one or two guys you think he should doesn't mean he didn't try or didn't at least consider it. There are moves that I think he should have made as well but without knowing exactly why he didn't make them I can't really say that he messed up. Yes he may have messed up by not signing a top CB in free agency as so many think is the case but do we know that for sure? No we don't. You may think you do but you don't and we won't know that until the season starts and maybe we get a few games in. It doesn't matter though because if we struggle at the position again the same talking heads will be on here saying how Ted screwed up and if we would have just done what THEY thought he should have done things would be all hunky dory even though we can't know that for sure either.

Since I can do nothing about it I tend to not think a lot about it. I let those who can do something about it worry about it. That's just me though. I'm not saying my response is for everyone or that it is the right way to go about it. We are all Packer fans and we all have our own ways of supporting the team. Like I said a lot of the ideas that get floated here seem to be very good ideas but that doesn't mean they are guaranteed to work out.

 

[sschind]

You continue to ignore that none of the posters around here can pick up the phone and call other team's general managers to acquire about a specific player but reject any discussion that Thompson should have traded for a CB solely based on fans not being able to come up with a name.

And what a lot of people continue to ignore is the possibility that Ted may have done just that. They assume that because a trade wasn't made that none was discussed or even considered. We may think a first round pick is nothing to give up for Joe Haden (I'm just using him because like you said it was a name tossed about) but we don't know if Ted thought it was too much. We don't know how serious Cleveland even was about trading him. We don't know if that was the asking price. We don't know a lot about it except he would be an upgrade at the position and while that is a very important factor it is not the only one. It is the only one some fans think about however. The good thing is that as fans we have that luxury.

Who knows, maybe Ted was one of those on the phone with John Lynch talking about moving up to the number 2 spot to draft Mitch Trubisky. I doubt it but maybe he wanted to scare the Bears into upping the ante.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There are many football savvy posters here, many know far more than I do but I still don't think they know as much as Ted or Mike or Dom or any number of Packer coaches or personnel do about individual players and what it takes to run a football team.

I haven't seen a single poster suggesting to know more than Thompson aabout running a team. But once again that doesn't mean we aren't capable of evaluating his moves and criticize him for not adequately addressing obvious positions of need.

For some completely random reason fans will be labelled Thompson haters by some around here if they dare to criticize the general manager yet those same guys feel absolutely comfortable analyzing players although they're hopefully aware that Rodgers, Matthews and company have way more knowledge about the NFL game than they do.

And what a lot of people continue to ignore is the possibility that Ted may have done just that. They assume that because a trade wasn't made that none was discussed or even considered.

The point being that I don't care if Thompson tried to make a move improving the situation at cornerback during last season as the only thing that matters is that he didn't and it was a major reason the Packers didn't make it to the Super Bowl.

I'm absolutely convinced Crosby planned on making the field goal early in the NFCCG as well as Ripkowski wanting to hold on the ball deep in Atlanta territory. Yet I haven't seen anyone (rightfully I might add) commending them for trying.

As I've repeatedly mentioned overall Thompson has done a good job over his tenure with the Packers but he's not above criticism although several posters around here seem to believe that.

 

[sschind]

I haven't seen a single poster suggesting to know more than Thompson aabout running a team. But once again that doesn't mean we aren't capable of evaluating his moves and criticize him for not adequately addressing obvious positions of need.

For some completely random reason fans will be labelled Thompson haters by some around here if they dare to criticize the general manager yet those same guys feel absolutely comfortable analyzing players although they're hopefully aware that Rodgers, Matthews and company have way more knowledge about the NFL game than they do.



The point being that I don't care if Thompson tried to make a move improving the situation at cornerback during last season as the only thing that matters is that he didn't and it was a major reason the Packers didn't make it to the Super Bowl.

I'm absolutely convinced Crosby planned on making the field goal early in the NFCCG as well as Ripkowski wanting to hold on the ball deep in Atlanta territory. Yet I haven't seen anyone (rightfully I might add) commending them for trying.

As I've repeatedly mentioned overall Thompson has done a good job over his tenure with the Packers but he's not above criticism although several posters around here seem to believe that.

It does cut both ways. Those who constantly complain about being a labeled a Ted hater whenever they say something negative have no problems labeling anyone who says anything positive as a Ted apologist.

Most of the support I see for Ted usually isn't blindly supportive. His shortcomings are very often mentioned. Most criticisms I see of him focus on one or two aspects and pound them into the ground and any good things he has done get relegated into the "he got lucky" category. Of course I would hate to be labeled as a Ted apologist or worse a fan who only cares about making the playoffs so I had better not say anything good about Ted Thompson.

 

[Mondio]

Not around here SS, you can not have understanding or perspective without being labeled. It is not accepted to recognize a deficiency without having 1 singular blame. If you don't use hindsight to lay that blame, regardless of how wrong hindsight proves you to be, you're an idiot around here. Or worse yet, an "apologist" LOL.

 

[Dantés]

It's correct to say that there is a singular person to blame for the Packers' shortcomings. The real issue is that no one knows who is actually the problem. Until now.

Tim McGarigle. Defensive Quality Control.

When you sit back and look at the Packers' main problem, you inevitably come to the conclusion that they've lost control. Control of what, you ask? Quality-- specifically on defense.

McGarigle (pronounced "Mik Garigologoogala") has been entrusted with controlling the quality of the defense. And frankly he is failing.

Contrarians are sure to point out that he wasn't hired by Green Bay until this season. That's just exactly what they want you to think. Clearly the guy was pulling the strings in 2016 and prior, all while fronting as a linebacker coach for the University of Illinois.

Everyone knows that Champagne, Illinois is a fake town with a fake university. It's a front for coach laundering schemes. If you don't believe me, ask yourself-- have you ever actually seen the so called "Fighting Illini" show up for a football game? Mhm... starting to come together for you isn't it?

If you go to Champagne, you'll find it's a mock village sort of like the one in that atrocious Indiana Jones redeaux from a few years ago. Except instead of Indy hiding in the fridge, McGargoyle is hiding on the Packers staff.

Champagne is fake, but you know what city in Illinois isn't? Chicago. That's right-- the home of the Bears. Do you think it's a coincidence that a fake university controlled by the home of our arch rival has planted a mole on our staff? This all goes right to the top.

McGarfield... mark it well. He's the snake in the grass. It's time to wake up, sheeple.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It does cut both ways. Those who constantly complain about being a labeled a Ted hater whenever they say something negative have no problems labeling anyone who says anything positive as a Ted apologist.

Most of the support I see for Ted usually isn't blindly supportive. His shortcomings are very often mentioned. Most criticisms I see of him focus on one or two aspects and pound them into the ground and any good things he has done get relegated into the "he got lucky" category.

I have been abundantly clear about Thompson being a successful general manager yet several posters around here label me as a TT hater because I dare to criticize him.

In my opinion commending Thompson for maybe having tried to make a move comes pretty close to blind support. Strangely enough that same approach isn't taken with players who have to make their decisions within a split second.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's correct to say that there is a singular person to blame for the Packers' shortcomings. The real issue is that no one knows who is actually the problem. Until now.

Tim McGarigle. Defensive Quality Control.

When you sit back and look at the Packers' main problem, you inevitably come to the conclusion that they've lost control. Control of what, you ask? Quality-- specifically on defense.

McGarigle (pronounced "Mik Garigologoogala") has been entrusted with controlling the quality of the defense. And frankly he is failing.

Contrarians are sure to point out that he wasn't hired by Green Bay until this season. That's just exactly what they want you to think. Clearly the guy was pulling the strings in 2016 and prior, all while fronting as a linebacker coach for the University of Illinois.

Everyone knows that Champagne, Illinois is a fake town with a fake university. It's a front for coach laundering schemes. If you don't believe me, ask yourself-- have you ever actually seen the so called "Fighting Illini" show up for a football game? Mhm... starting to come together for you isn't it?

If you go to Champagne, you'll find it's a mock village sort of like the one in that atrocious Indiana Jones redeaux from a few years ago. Except instead of Indy hiding in the fridge, McGargoyle is hiding on the Packers staff.

Champagne is fake, but you know what city in Illinois isn't? Chicago. That's right-- the home of the Bears. Do you think it's a coincidence that a fake university controlled by the home of our arch rival has planted a mole on our staff? This all goes right to the top.

McGarfield... mark it well. He's the snake in the grass. It's time to wake up, sheeple.

I have only one correction to your post......it's pronounced "mac-GARGLE"

Back to the grassy knoll.

 

[Pkrjones]

Anyone seen or heard anything about Elvis in this TT/McCarthy/Capers/apologist/hater thread?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Anyone seen or heard anything about Elvis in this TT/McCarthy/Capers/apologist/hater thread?

I am afraid......

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[Dantés]

McGorgon was never going to let it happen.

 

[sschind]

I have been abundantly clear about Thompson being a successful general manager yet several posters around here label me as a TT hater because I dare to criticize him.

In my opinion commending Thompson for maybe having tried to make a move comes pretty close to blind support. Strangely enough that same approach isn't taken with players who have to make their decisions within a split second.

Who commended him? All I said was that just because he didn't make the moves you wanted him to make doesn't mean he didn't try to make them. You don't care if he tried, all that matters to you is that he didn't do what you thought he should have done and that's fine. You can keep on thinking that all he has to do is want something and it will be done but a lot of us realize there is more to his job than wanting something. As fans we have the luxury of focusing on one aspect almost to the exclusion of all others (obtaining a #1 corner for example) but as the GM he doesn't have that luxury. He has to consider everything. You of all people should realize that because you are constantly commenting on how it would have been foolish to sign this or that player for the amount of money they wanted or eventually got and yet you continually rail on him for not obtaining that #1 CB no matter what it would have taken to do so. Actions have consequences and as a wise man once said "you can't always get what you want" unfortunately that also means, in this case at least, we didn't get what we needed either. If you can't get what you want or need the next thing to do is get better somewhere else to help minimize the fact that you are wanting somewhere else.

 

[sschind]

McGorgon was never going to let it happen.

McGargamel

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Who commended him? All I said was that just because he didn't make the moves you wanted him to make doesn't mean he didn't try to make them. You don't care if he tried, all that matters to you is that he didn't do what you thought he should have done and that's fine. You can keep on thinking that all he has to do is want something and it will be done but a lot of us realize there is more to his job than wanting something. As fans we have the luxury of focusing on one aspect almost to the exclusion of all others (obtaining a #1 corner for example) but as the GM he doesn't have that luxury. He has to consider everything. You of all people should realize that because you are constantly commenting on how it would have been foolish to sign this or that player for the amount of money they wanted or eventually got and yet you continually rail on him for not obtaining that #1 CB no matter what it would have taken to do so. Actions have consequences and as a wise man once said "you can't always get what you want" unfortunately that also means, in this case at least, we didn't get what we needed either. If you can't get what you want or need the next thing to do is get better somewhere else to help minimize the fact that you are wanting somewhere else.

I wasn't talking about you commending Thompson. Other than that I have addressed the points you made on several occasions.

It's still extremely hard to understand why any Packers fan is OK with thinking Thompson possibly tried to improve the team when ultimately he didn't make any moves to actually upgrade the roster though.

 

[Sky King]

It's correct to say that there is a singular person to blame for the Packers' shortcomings. The real issue is that no one knows who is actually the problem. Until now.

Tim McGarigle. Defensive Quality Control.

When you sit back and look at the Packers' main problem, you inevitably come to the conclusion that they've lost control. Control of what, you ask? Quality-- specifically on defense.

McGarigle (pronounced "Mik Garigologoogala") has been entrusted with controlling the quality of the defense. And frankly he is failing.

Contrarians are sure to point out that he wasn't hired by Green Bay until this season. That's just exactly what they want you to think. Clearly the guy was pulling the strings in 2016 and prior, all while fronting as a linebacker coach for the University of Illinois.

Everyone knows that Champagne, Illinois is a fake town with a fake university. It's a front for coach laundering schemes. If you don't believe me, ask yourself-- have you ever actually seen the so called "Fighting Illini" show up for a football game? Mhm... starting to come together for you isn't it?

If you go to Champagne, you'll find it's a mock village sort of like the one in that atrocious Indiana Jones redeaux from a few years ago. Except instead of Indy hiding in the fridge, McGargoyle is hiding on the Packers staff.

Champagne is fake, but you know what city in Illinois isn't? Chicago. That's right-- the home of the Bears. Do you think it's a coincidence that a fake university controlled by the home of our arch rival has planted a mole on our staff? This all goes right to the top.

McGarfield... mark it well. He's the snake in the grass. It's time to wake up, sheeple.

Finally, somebody has connected all the dots.

 

[OldSchool101]

It does cut both ways. Those who constantly complain about being a labeled a Ted hater whenever they say something negative have no problems labeling anyone who says anything positive as a Ted apologist.

Most of the support I see for Ted usually isn't blindly supportive. His shortcomings are very often mentioned. Most criticisms I see of him focus on one or two aspects and pound them into the ground and any good things he has done get relegated into the "he got lucky" category. Of course I would hate to be labeled as a Ted apologist or worse a fan who only cares about making the playoffs so I had better not say anything good about Ted Thompson.

It's an interesting argument (being critical of TT) and I see some of both sides. I see being occasionally critical as more of an evaluation and while we may very well be wrong about a particular stance. That's ok too as long as we learn from it down the road.
Similar to the draft prospects, they label the positives but also label the negatives. I don't see the negatives as an attack and sometimes I even see several professional scouts with opposite opinions themselves. These guys are in the business and often can't come to a consensus.
Often times the truth lies in the middle of 2 arguments and it's often self educating to offer a particular stance, because if we're wise, we research the topic and educate one another.
As long as we remain cordial to one another and stay away from personal attacks debates can be education, if not even healthy.
That being said...
sign the man for heaven sakes!!! Let's do this!!

 

[sschind]

It's an interesting argument (being critical of TT) and I see some of both sides. I see being occasionally critical as more of an evaluation and while we may very well be wrong about a particular stance. That's ok too as long as we learn from it down the road.
Similar to the draft prospects, they label the positives but also label the negatives. I don't see the negatives as an attack and sometimes I even see several professional scouts with opposite opinions themselves. These guys are in the business and often can't come to a consensus.
Often times the truth lies in the middle of 2 arguments and it's often self educating to offer a particular stance, because if we're wise, we research the topic and educate one another.
As long as we remain cordial to one another and stay away from personal attacks debates can be education, if not even healthy.
That being said...
sign the man for heaven sakes!!! Let's do this!!

True that, the truth lying somewhere in between I mean. Another thing is that when someone disagrees with us we have a tendency to think we are being open minded and can see both sides of the story, we just disagree with the other side, and those who agree with the other side are simply pig headed and stubborn. A evidence I will use WIMMs comment It's still extremely hard to understand why any Packers fan is OK with thinking Thompson possibly tried to improve the team when ultimately he didn't make any moves to actually upgrade the roster though. My response to that would be where did anyone say they were OK with him not making any moves? Most of us wish he would make certain moves to improve the roster as well but we simply acknowledge the fact that just because he may want it doesn't mean it will happen. We acknowledge the fact that he is trying whereas the other guys assume that just because something didn't happen it means he didn't try to make it happen. We acknowledge that he tried but failed whereas they fail to acknowledge that he even tried. No one is saying it is acceptable to keep trying and failing, that is what eventually gets people fired. However, trying and failing is not the same as not trying which is what some people are accusing him of.

 

[Reese2017]

I think this would be a good signing!

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Bleacher-Report-believes-Packers-will-sign-Elvis-Dumervil--52622044

Why are you trying to get older there are capable guys on the team our problems are scheme not players and get rid of guion I've never seen a 340 pound guy not be able to rush the qb

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Most of us wish he would make certain moves to improve the roster as well but we simply acknowledge the fact that just because he may want it doesn't mean it will happen. We acknowledge the fact that he is trying whereas the other guys assume that just because something didn't happen it means he didn't try to make it happen. We acknowledge that he tried but failed whereas they fail to acknowledge that he even tried. No one is saying it is acceptable to keep trying and failing, that is what eventually gets people fired. However, trying and failing is not the same as not trying which is what some people are accusing him of.

Just to clarify it once again, I'm not accusing Thompson of not trying to improve the roster but simply don't care about anything else than the moves he actually makes.

Why are you trying to get older there are capable guys on the team our problems are scheme not players and get rid of guion I've never seen a 340 pound guy not be able to rush the qb

It might be a smart move to add more veteran depth at outside linebacker as Elliott, Fackrell and Biegel aren't proven by any means.

I have no idea what you're trying to say about Guion as he doesn't weigh 340 pounds and there are a lot of big guys in the league not being able to rush the quarterback.