Disagreement in organization about Will Fuller

[swhitset]

Okay. How?

Lol exactly.... I mean technically he’s not wrong .... but it’s also very clear that he just heard that somewhere and has absolutely no idea how it would be done ... or the consequences to the team that would inevitably ensue.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There are ways of manipulating the cap.

We aren't talking about a Presidential election here, we are talking about an NFL cap number that is the same for each team, each year, it is fixed. So, you can't manipulate the actual cap number, but you can play with contracts to try to get on or under the cap this year, by shifting money out to future years. However, that is not manipulating caps, that is being creative with your players contracts. All that said, if you want to do that, you best be very good with your numbers or you will find yourself face down in a cap that you can't meet without gutting the team.

 

[swhitset]

We aren't talking about a Presidential election here, we are talking about an NFL cap number that is the same for each team, each year, it is fixed. So, you can't manipulate the actual cap number, but you can play with contracts to try to get on or under the cap this year, by shifting money out to future years. However, that is not manipulating caps, that is being creative with your players contracts. All that said, if you want to do that, you best be very good with your numbers or you will find yourself face down in a cap that you can't meet without gutting the team.

Agreed... the bottom line is that every dollar that you pay a player is going to be counted against the cap... and you can only backload so much money before you are in trouble. The Packers are already approaching that point.

 

[JK64]

Lol exactly.... I mean technically he’s not wrong .... but it’s also very clear that he just heard that somewhere and has absolutely no idea how it would be done ... or the consequences to the team that would inevitably ensue.

Like You are some kind of expert. Do your homework.

 

[JK64]

We aren't talking about a Presidential election here, we are talking about an NFL cap number that is the same for each team, each year, it is fixed. So, you can't manipulate the actual cap number, but you can play with contracts to try to get on or under the cap this year, by shifting money out to future years. However, that is not manipulating caps, that is being creative with your players contracts. All that said, if you want to do that, you best be very good with your numbers or you will find yourself face down in a cap that you can't meet without gutting the team.

That’s why Gute gets paid the big bucks.

 

[swhitset]

This was comical briefly.... but, I have enough children of my own... this one is going on ignore.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Esp when we have Lazard and Funchess awaiting return.

Funchess won't be allowed to return this season.

do you think it's true? i'm not including the first round, as i didn't want a QB either and obviously they valued him highly. It's a long term pick, if he's good it was good, if he's not it was a waste. None of the WR's available to them in the 1st round were 1st round talents to me anyway. people ***** about reaches on a daily here, but make it a WR and all would be right in the world LOL

anyway, he told everyone they wanted a WR and they had some rated highly, but none of them were at the value they thought they needed to be to pick. Maybe they were wrong. But he freaking told everyone point blank, they were looking. They just tried to make a trade for one and somehow someone comes up with a scenario that he didn't do it because he wants to prove he didn't want one because they didn't need one? Seems likely LOL

I'm quite sure the Packers using their first round pick on Higgins, Claypool or Shenault would have improved the offense.

As a side note, actions speak louder than words.

Of the 13 players, I see 3 studs (Cobb, Adams and Jenkins) 5 total busts (Worthy, Rollins, Spriggs, Jones, Jackson), 3 players that I would call limited contributors (Neal, Hayward, King) and the other 2 guys I don't know where they fall, Dillon (unknown), Lacy...2 1/2 great years and then bust.

Hayward should be considered a stud as well.

I also think Gute wasn't expecting a SB team this year, at least that is what his draft and free agents moves led me to think.

The Packers' draft this year seemed to imply that Gutekunst wasn't even convinced that he was expecting this team to be a playoff contender.

I would rather watch the Packers have 10 straight competitive winning seasons and no super bowl wins, then 1 super bowl win and 9 Detroit Lion type seasons. I would love a SB win, but its just one game. Give me 16+ fun and competitive games each season, winnings seasons and I am a happy fan.

It's definitely desirable to have a competitive team every single season but winning the Super Bowl should remain the main goal.

There are ways of manipulating the cap.

No, there aren't.

 

[Mondio]

I'm quite sure I didn't say there wasn't anybody they could have picked in the first round. I did say why I avoided it. If Love is a good QB, it was a good pick. I'm done with that discussion. They chose a pick at what i consider a premium position and it trumps most other decisions in my book.

What I did say was, they didn't have anyone rated that highly when they picked in the 2nd. I'm not saying they were right, i'm saying what they thought. Because remember, I'm talking about someone having the opinion that the reason Gute didn't trade for a WR was because he didn't want one or he didn't want to admit he was wrong in the draft. I think that is beyond silly, as he's told us multiple times they've been looking for WR's in the draft and via trade. kind of blows holes in that theory.

 

[Pugger]

Funchess won't be allowed to return this season.



I'm quite sure the Packers using their first round pick on Higgins, Claypool or Shenault would have improved the offense.

As a side note, actions speak louder than words.



Hayward should be considered a stud as well.



The Packers' draft this year seemed to imply that Gutekunst wasn't even convinced that he was expecting this team to be a playoff contender.



It's definitely desirable to have a competitive team every single season but winning the Super Bowl should remain the main goal.



No, there aren't.

As I said earlier in this thread here - getting another WR wasn't going to improve our lousy defense. Even with these JAGs at WR outside of Adams our offense is still one of the top 3 scoring offenses in the league. IMO we have to fix this defense in order for us to be a legit SB team.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Adding another WR wasn't going to fix our lousy defense...

And that's what the priority should be, IMHO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hayward should be considered a stud as well.

I didn't put Hayward in the "stud" category for the mere fact that he wasn't much of a stud until after he left Green Bay. Thus, I wouldn't consider what the Packers got out of him as a Packer a good 2nd round investment.

The Packers' draft this year seemed to imply that Gutekunst wasn't even convinced that he was expecting this team to be a playoff contender.

I disagree with you there, the mere fact that they were coming off a 13-3 Season and didn't lose a ton of guys in Free Agency, should be enough to feel comfortable with your team at least making the playoffs. However, I do think he either was too comfortable with what he had and thought they would improve enough to get to a SB or he realized that he was short too many key pieces and if he didn't draft for 2021 he would be yet another year away starting next season.

It's definitely desirable to have a competitive team every single season but winning the Super Bowl should remain the main goal.

Agree, but not at the expense of going all in on just one season by overspending and mortgaging yourself for the future. It's a fine dance each year of not over committing to that one single goal in that one single year.

I can think of one event that the Packers probably could not overcome to win a SB, that would be the loss of #12. So to tie a few of these posts together, I wouldn't be surprised if Gute viewed Love as not just the QB of the near distant future, but also a QB that eventually will be a quality #2 that could step in if Rodgers went down. (Please lets not start the debate of why he is currently the #3 after no preseason and very little camp)

 

[Pugger]

I didn't put Hayward in the "stud" category for the mere fact that he wasn't much of a stud until after he left Green Bay. Thus, I wouldn't consider what the Packers got out of him as a Packer a good 2nd round investment.

I disagree with you there, the mere fact that they were coming off a 13-3 Season and didn't lose a ton of guys in Free Agency, should be enough to feel comfortable with your team at least making the playoffs. However, I do think he either was too comfortable with what he had and thought they would improve enough to get to a SB or he realized that he was short too many key pieces and if he didn't draft for 2021 he would be yet another year away starting next season.

Agree, but not at the expense of going all in on just one season by overspending and mortgaging yourself for the future. It's a fine dance each year of not over committing to that one single goal in that one single year.

I can think of one event that the Packers probably could not overcome to win a SB, that would be the loss of #12. So to tie a few of these posts together, I wouldn't be surprised if Gute viewed Love as not just the QB of the near distant future, but also a QB that eventually will be a quality #2 that could step in if Rodgers went down. (Please lets not start the debate of why he is currently the #3 after no preseason and very little camp)

I doubt any of us believed Love was going to be the #2 guy without a normal training camp and preseason this year.

 

[Mondio]

Hayward set a record for rookies I think in terms of lowest QB rating targeting a rookie in the NFL or something like that. Maybe it was rating from PFF, i forget which. and he was in discussions for DROY and not as an afterthought. He was hurt a lot but when he wasn't, he was good.

 

[JK64]

No, there aren't.

Yes there are as Pokerbrat explained.

 

[JK64]

This was comical briefly.... but, I have enough children of my own... this one is going on ignore.

Thanks Dad.

 

[JK64]

Agree, but not at the expense of going all in on just one season by overspending and mortgaging yourself for the future. It's a fine dance each year of not over committing to that one single goal in that one single year.

They need to surround AR with better players on offense or defense. Our future is now. We have a great QB. We have no idea who Love is going to be. Right now, Love can't even make it to back up.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I accept that he is trying to keep this team competitive every season, not just this one and not just in 4-5 years. Any Bears/Vikings/Lions fan would love to have their team be good like the Packers every year.

Those teams have all time great QBs playing for them right now?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not sure if you read my post, you quoted it though.

• Love wasn't drafted for immediate help
• we have 2 RB's on the last year of their contracts, you don't think Dillon was a pick for 2021 and whatever he could contribute this year?
• MLF's offense heavily relies on TE's, Mercedes Lewis is what 49 years old? Deguara was definitely a "what can he give us this year, but more next year" pick.
• Martin was definitely a pick for now and future.
• 3 offensive lineman in a row. You don't think those were picks for 2021 and beyond and potentially a bit of backup this year?

Again, I understand you are upset that the Packers didn't grab an immediate impact player with one of their first 2 picks, I was scratching my head too. However, I think those fans who are throwing their hands up because we haven't won a SB yet this year, are doing it prematurely. I also think you would have been expecting 2 rookies to do way too much. It is hind sight now, but what 2 picks should Gute have made in the draft, that has us instant SB contenders....in your opinion?

Now explain refusing to give to a 2nd for Robby Anderson last year or Fuller this year. Ppl ignore that fact that, if the Packers let either walk after the trade, they get the compensatory 3rd round pick. So, basically, you're moving back 30 spots to improve the offense massively. Gute didn't think this team was as good as it is and started planning for the future. You say rookies wouldn't help this year, well, who's helping next year then? You gotta get going guys in to develop and the Packers didn't do that at receiver, dline, or corner. That's a problem.

 

[GleefulGary]

Yes there are as Pokerbrat explained.

There are ways of delaying the inevitable, but there is no avoiding the end result.

So I’ll ask you again, how do you manipulate the cap? As specific as possible, please.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now explain refusing to give to a 2nd for Robby Anderson last year or Fuller this year. Ppl ignore that fact that, if the Packers let either walk after the trade, they get the compensatory 3rd round pick.

There is where your math gets Fuzzy. I don't remember much about Robby Anderson, so let's talk about Fuller. Had the Packers traded a 2nd round pick for him and then couldn't come to an agreement on a new contract, he becomes a 2021 Free Agent. Eventually he signs with someone and depending on for how much, we get a plus mark in the 2022 compensatory pick worksheet. There is no guaranteed compensatory pick and if there would be, I think at best its a 4th round and probably a 5th, not a 3rd.

This can't be said enough, because people seem to assume its automatic. "Just because a player is a FA and signs with another team, you are not guaranteed a comp pick for that loss." Also, good to keep in mind, compensatory picks for 2021 FA's are not awarded until the 2022 draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes there are as Pokerbrat explained.

Slow down Tiger, it makes me nervous when you....are using me as one of your sources.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I doubt any of us believed Love was going to be the #2 guy without a normal training camp and preseason this year.

None of us should have. Yet, there are some posters that have attempted to use it as proof that he was a terrible pick.

 

[swhitset]

Slow down Tiger, it makes me nervous when you....are using me as one of your sources.

lol I can’t see what you are quoting... but I can guess.

 

[JK64]

None of us should have. Yet, there are some posters that have attempted to use it as proof that he was a terrible pick.

You don’t know how Love will do and neither do I. We do know he ain’t helping our team this year in any capacity. This is not fair to a talent like Rodgers.

 

[Mondio]

no, but 100 million dollars to play QB is pretty fair.