Clay Mathews is done.

[gbgary]

Deserves every bit of it imo.

no doubt. over pursued, fell down a lot, took the night off really.

 

[Heyjoe4]

People might disagree with me here, but yes, the hit on Trubisky was a penalty under today's rules, but not as flagrant and stupid as people are painting it out to be. That would have been a tough one for Clay to pull up on, but seems that part doesn't matter anymore with some of the other ones I have seen called in the last month + Protect those QB's at all costs and the latest "Rogers Rule" I believe has refs twitching even more to throw that flag.

I didn't see it as flagrant either, although he hesitated for a sec and then kept on going. He may just have been mad at himself for a bad performance, but that's no excuse for someone with his amount of time in the league and on such a critical play. He played poorly, and time will tell if he's of any value to the team or not. Placing last among edge rusher rankings though is not a good sign. Seems to me that where he used to power through pass protection, now he's trying to run around those guys. That tires him out. For some reason, he's lost the technique and moves he used to have. Is that because he was on PEDs? I just don't think so.

 

[Poppa San]

I didn't see it as flagrant either, although he hesitated for a sec and then kept on going.

He runs through the QB and wraps him up in a take-down instead of leaping into him, it isn't called. His leaving his feet made it appear more flagrant than it should have been.

 

[gbgary]

I didn't see it as flagrant either, although he hesitated for a sec and then kept on going. He may just have been mad at himself for a bad performance, but that's no excuse for someone with his amount of time in the league and on such a critical play. He played poorly, and time will tell if he's of any value to the team or not. Placing last among edge rusher rankings though is not a good sign. Seems to me that where he used to power through pass protection, now he's trying to run around those guys. That tires him out. For some reason, he's lost the technique and moves he used to have. Is that because he was on PEDs? I just don't think so.

it was definitely flagrant. noting incidental or accidental about it. he had way more time to abort than wilkerson did...and wilkerson deserved his penalty too. these guys have to smarter than that.

 

[Mondio]

I didn't even see Perry's, what did that look like. I just saw they called a penalty, but I didn't see it live and i didn't see a replay because my brother texted me

 

[Phazael]

Clay has turned into a cheap shot artist the last couple years, when he actually is on the field anyhow. We should have traded him to Oakland to get Mack here and he would fit in great at Oakland. The only times he touched the Bear QB all night were that clear cheap shot that nearly cost us the game and high fiving him on the sideline earlier in the night. His jersey was cleaner than Crosby's at the end of the game.

 

[Phazael]

PS- I used to really like Clay, but he has not been good, let alone worth his money, since Kevin Green left to raise his kids. Green was the reason he was successful and would have been someone I would have courted to return to the team, if it insists on continuing to overpay Clayfaker.

 

[Poppa San]

We should have traded him to Oakland to get Mack here and he would fit in great at Oakland.

Do you have any cites that Oakland would have taken him? I am fairly confident Reggie sees the same issues plus others with Clay that any casual fan sees.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We should have traded him to Oakland to get Mack here and he would fit in great at Oakland.

You say that like the Packers had the opportunity to do it and because they didn't, we have Clay and not Mack. I guess I haven't read a thing to indicate Matthews was part of the deal.

I get it, as long as Mack keeps shining in Chicago and Matthews looks like a turd in Green Bay, there are going to be posters saying it was a BIG mistake not to trade for him. But those posters are assuming we had what Oakland wanted in exchange for what the Packers were willing to give up, as well as assuming the Packers wanted to shell out the kind of money Mack got.

 

[Phazael]

I'm not saying it did go that way, I'm saying if we were serious about getting him we toss Clayfaker on the table to reduce the draft pick hit as part of the deal. God knows Chucky is a sucker for GB cast offs. How have our first rounders been going for us anyhow, recently? Mack was a pretty well known quantity and so for that matter is Clay. For every Rogers and Bulaga in the last ten years there is a Justin Harnell, AJ Hawk, or Danarious Randall. Given the limited window we have left with Rogers, I would go with the known commodity over the lotto that is the draft. If this were earlier in Rogers career, I would feel different, but we are on the cusp of another Randy Wright era once Rogers hangs it up and it would be nice to get a HOF QB more than one ring for a change around here. I mean, that was the whole point of Peter Principling Teddy the Ghost in the first place right?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not saying it did go that way, I'm saying if we were serious about getting him we toss Clayfaker on the table to reduce the draft pick hit as part of the deal. God knows Chucky is a sucker for GB cast offs. How have our first rounders been going for us anyhow, recently? Mack was a pretty well known quantity and so for that matter is Clay. For every Rogers and Bulaga in the last ten years there is a Justin Harnell, AJ Hawk, or Danarious Randall. Given the limited window we have left with Rogers, I would go with the known commodity over the lotto that is the draft. If this were earlier in Rogers career, I would feel different, but we are on the cusp of another Randy Wright era once Rogers hangs it up and it would be nice to get a HOF QB more than one ring for a change around here. I mean, that was the whole point of Peter Principling Teddy the Ghost in the first place right?

I'm honestly having a hard time following any logic here, especially with all of the intentional and I think a few unintentional spelling of names of players to let people know how you feel about them. BTW, it is Aaron Rodgers.

So to your post, given how you think Clay sucks so bad, how much does he reduce our draft picks down in a trade and also keep in mind his salary that the Raiders would have had to pay him...maybe he reduces it by a ....7th rounder?

Soo besides Jordy, what Green Bay castoffs is Chucky a sucker for? Chucky also got Jordy as a FA, so not really much "I gotta have a Packer player, let's make a deal" in that.

While you may be right about the fact that there are no guarantees in first round draft picks, there is also no guarantee that they will be a bust either, wasn't Mack a first round pick? What I can guarantee you is if the Packers traded for Mack, it would have cost more than our 2 first round picks in 2019 as well as a $141,000,000 contract, including a $34,000,000 signing bonus, $90,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $23,500,000. A contract that I wouldn't be in favor of spending on an OLB, especially when you currently have the highest paid player in the league.

 

[Phazael]

Your right, lets just keep drafting and hope we strike gold because clearly Rodgers will play forever like Favre did.....

We have maybe three years of serviceable play out of 12 IF WE ARE LUCKY. We won't get three HOF guys at that position in a row. I can sit through another decade of Dom Magic Man and Forest Greg type coulda shoulda woulda years, but knowing we have a good window here and are not doing EVERYTHING to at least try and get 12 another shot at a ring instead of just one and done forever, well it frankly makes me more angry than when I had to sit through years of Randy Wright. And I did. And I will again. It would be nice to know the upcoming decade of suck happened because we took our shot when we had the best player in the game under center. I am willing to bet I am not the only person who feels that way.

(Spelling errors I apologize for, I am using speak type on a phone at a sports bar to watch tonight's Thursday night train wreck.)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

we have a good window here and are not doing EVERYTHING to at least try and get 12 another shot at a ring

But that is the problem with your logic, had the Packers gotten Mack, THAT is just about your EVERYTHING you pretty much have to work with for several years. So you have just pretty much emptied all of your chambers on one guy and what if that doesn't work? Now you have lost multiple first round picks and are cap strapped heavy by 2 guys, what is your next move? Mack is a great player, no doubt, but how long will he be great and if he isn't "great enough" what then?

 

[Dantés]

I’m going to go ahead and predict that under Pettine, the edge position is going to be similar to the off-ball linebacker under Capers— fans are going to perpetually be wanting them to invest more in it than what they do.

The track record of Ryan/Pettine defense teams just doesn’t show a big emphasis on edge rushers. They’ve inherited some, but teams haven’t invested much in the spot under their watch.

Now trends are not facts, and I could end up being wrong, but the data suggests that Pettine will place a premium on CB, DL, and ILB in that order. That seems to be what’s most valuable in his system, while he gets by on the edge with Calvin Pace type players.

If it works and he builds a great defense while eschewing the edge position, he’s cheating the system. That’s the most expensive defensive position because it’s the most valuable to the most systems. If you can save there, you have a lot more flexibility.

 

[Ogsponge]

All this argument about getting Mack or not and the realistic thing that should have been done was we should have drafted Watt last year, which I was saying before the draft. And we could have but ted didn’t listen to me

 

[Dantés]

Seeing more of the game for a second/third time, the most disappointing aspect of Matthews' for me is the lack of effort.

 

[bigbubbatd]

All this argument about getting Mack or not and the realistic thing that should have been done was we should have drafted Watt last year, which I was saying before the draft. And we could have but ted didn’t listen to me

Watt was great last week. He would fit well here for sure. At the same time I was really impressed with King. I think that guy is going to be very good. Biegel flopping was huge.

 

[Mondio]

I was happy with King and Biiegel in place of Watt. I would have been happy with Watt too. Biegel had a slow start, showed a bit last year and was a dud this year. I don't question the cut at all with what he showed preseason and I was very disappointed to say the least. I expected a lot more, but he was tossed aside like nothing on so many plays. But I'm not sure I'm going to be disappointed in "just" Kevin King either. Earlier this year I watched some of his stuff from last year and he had a lot of plays where he was far better than I had remembered. He had another solid game on Sunday. He still doesn't have a ton of experience, but I think he could be pretty good. I worry about his shoulders, but that's football I guess. Watt has looked like a nice player so far too, he'd look even better if they could play the Browns every week Almost all of his eye grabbing stats have come against them. But they've been eye grabbing. Blocked punts, FG's, sacks galore. I'm not saying he's not good, he is, i'd like to have him, i just find it odd how many of his stats have come against one team so far

 

[Dantés]

I loved Watt and King. They were both on my short list. I favored Watt because his positional value was higher. But in a Mike Pettine defense, you can easily argue that cornerback is the most important position. So if both are great players, King may incidentally become the better pick in retrospect because of the hiring of Pettine.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I loved Watt and King. They were both on my short list. I favored Watt because his positional value was higher. But in a Mike Pettine defense, you can easily argue that cornerback is the most important position. So if both are great players, King may incidentally become the better pick in retrospect because of the hiring of Pettine.

I'd gladly trade King for Watt but that is also knowing we are in much better shape at CB than we were before drafting King and in desperate need of a guy like Watt.

The good news for the Packers is if King stays healthy, I think he could become the shutdown corner they crave and need. Throw in Jackson and Alexander and the future of the position is a lot brighter than it was the last how many years? TJ isn't JJ yet, but he is looking like a better player than some thought he would be. Schobert (ex Badger LB) is playing pretty well for the Browns as well. It appears that the Packers got the Dud out of the bunch in Biegel.

 

[swhitset]

I'd gladly trade King for Watt but that is also knowing we are in much better shape at CB than we were before drafting King and in desperate need of a guy like Watt.

The good news for the Packers is if King stays healthy, I think he could become the shutdown corner they crave and need. Throw in Jackson and Alexander and the future of the position is a lot brighter than it was the last how many years? TJ isn't JJ yet, but he is looking like a better player than some thought he would be. Schobert (ex Badger LB) is playing pretty well for the Browns as well. It appears that the Packers got the Dud out of the bunch in Biegel.

I always felt like Biegel would have been better suited to play inside ... but I guess he had his chances.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I always felt like Biegel would have been better suited to play inside ... but I guess he had his chances.

I tend to agree with you and have to wonder why the Packers, who were looking for ILB's when Ryan and Burks went down, didn't even play around with it in Preseason. They must not have liked the overall future of Biegel or they were trying to be sneaky and get him on the PS to hone those ILB skills more?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ob Demovsky‏Verified account @RobDemovsky
No fines for the three Packers flagged for roughing Bears QB Mitchell Trubisky: Nick Perry Muhammad Wilkerson Clay Matthews Also, Bears DE Roy Robertson-Harris not fined for falling on Aaron Rodgers after the sack that injured the quarterback's left knee.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would be fine moving clay to ILB but his tackling was terrible on Sunday too. Was Clay even that good at ILB?

Matthews was average at best playing inside linebacker. I highly doubt he would be a better fit at the position three years later in his career.

I reckon he'd be a starter as ILB in our team right now. As good as Blake, if not better.

Martinez is definitely a significantly better player at the position than Matthews.

Come on. It was back in 2015 and Nick Perry had a 3 game streak with nothing at same time. Anyways, we need to look at recent history for a useful discussion.

Perry never lined up at inside linebacker though.

I'm not saying it did go that way, I'm saying if we were serious about getting him we toss Clayfaker on the table to reduce the draft pick hit as part of the deal.

It's mind-boggling that Packers fans believe other teams are lining up to trade for players the Packers should get rid of because they don't contribute anymore while being paid $10+ million.

I’m going to go ahead and predict that under Pettine, the edge position is going to be similar to the off-ball linebacker under Capers— fans are going to perpetually be wanting them to invest more in it than what they do.

The track record of Ryan/Pettine defense teams just doesn’t show a big emphasis on edge rushers. They’ve inherited some, but teams haven’t invested much in the spot under their watch.

Now trends are not facts, and I could end up being wrong, but the data suggests that Pettine will place a premium on CB, DL, and ILB in that order. That seems to be what’s most valuable in his system, while he gets by on the edge with Calvin Pace type players.

If it works and he builds a great defense while eschewing the edge position, he’s cheating the system. That’s the most expensive defensive position because it’s the most valuable to the most systems. If you can save there, you have a lot more flexibility.

I'm not convinced that to be true as edge rushers (142) played significantly more snaps than inside linebackers (81) vs. the Bears as well as on par with defensive linemen (147).

 

[GleefulGary]

Matthews was average at best playing inside linebacker. I highly doubt he would be a better fit at the position three years later in his career.



Martinez is definitely a significantly better player at the position than Matthews.



Perry never lined up at inside linebacker though.



It's mind-boggling that Packers fans believe other teams are lining up to trade for players the Packers should get rid of because they don't contribute anymore while being paid $10+ million.



I'm not convinced that to be true as edge rushers (142) played significantly more snaps than inside linebackers (81) vs. the Bears as well as on par with defensive linemen (147).

The last one could very well change when Oren Burks comes back. They weren’t going to play Morrison in coverage (praises).