CBS Sports calls out Packers lies regarding Jordan Love

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,540
Reaction score
5,261
Ya, when my family and I were watching the draft we said the only hope we'd have of getting a first-round quality WR was to trade up to the late teens/early 20's. Otherwise, every team in need of a WR who'd be picking around our selection would try to leap us to get their guy given that our hand was basically revealed prior to the draft. Given our needs, one can assume that Gute was ok with the late-round depth at o-line. Were ok taking a bit of a risk on an ILB in the middle rounds and they REALLY wanted Deguara and Dillon seeing what Jusczcyk and Henry have done for their respective teams. That's how I'm rationalizing this draft anyway, some high risk, high possible reward choices by a GM who's time is now on the clock.

Outside of Pittman I'm 100% in agreement there was no receiver worth the value of our first pick.

Outside of Bryan Edwards I didn't have one rated worth picking at our second pick.

I didn't have any WR worthy of our third pick.

DPJ was the only WR I saw was of value at our 5th round pick. For what it is worth I did not like DPJ at all...but in the 5th round that is solid value for what I think he can be and do.

6th onward there wasn't any WR I felt I wanted to take a flyer on outside MAYBE Proche or Hill.

^^^ I mean truly as deep as the WR draft was from top to bottom, value really NEVER fell to our spots honestly that much.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,108
Reaction score
6,195
Outside of Pittman I'm 100% in agreement there was no receiver worth the value of our first pick.

Outside of Bryan Edwards I didn't have one rated worth picking at our second pick.

I didn't have any WR worthy of our third pick.

DPJ was the only WR I saw was of value at our 5th round pick. For what it is worth I did not like DPJ at all...but in the 5th round that is solid value for what I think he can be and do.

6th onward there wasn't any WR I felt I wanted to take a flyer on outside MAYBE Proche or Hill.

^^^ I mean truly as deep as the WR draft was from top to bottom, value really NEVER fell to our spots honestly that much.
I agree. If we are honest with ourselves. It was more about where we picked in order not being ideal at WR. I wanted a WR as much as the next guy, but not so much I’d reach for one. I offered multiple times that if our WR wasn’t there at #30, we should’ve traded back into the early 2nd round (I said #40 or earlier) Then used those resources to move up in round 2. I would’ve shot for Miami’s #39, #56, #111 (they had a slew of selections) and traded them #30 and #62. Miami already had their main guys at #5, #18, #26, #39. They could’ve had 4 day 1 selections.
Then I would’ve picked something like this.
At #39 DT, Blacklock
At #56 WR, Denzel Mims.
At #94 “ TE, Deguara (no complaints)
At #111 CB. Troy Pride
At #133 LB, Shaquille Quarterman
I’m ok with whatever projects we needed after this... even doubling down at ILB and making sure we have adequate options past Kirksey or Burks.

So I pretty much liked the 2nd round WR but it would’ve taken some gyrations around the board. At least we know Miami was ok picking at #30, so this made some logical sense. Had Jordan Love been picked before #26 I think things would’ve went completely different.
 

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
922
Outside of Pittman I'm 100% in agreement there was no receiver worth the value of our first pick.

Outside of Bryan Edwards I didn't have one rated worth picking at our second pick.

I didn't have any WR worthy of our third pick.

DPJ was the only WR I saw was of value at our 5th round pick. For what it is worth I did not like DPJ at all...but in the 5th round that is solid value for what I think he can be and do.

6th onward there wasn't any WR I felt I wanted to take a flyer on outside MAYBE Proche or Hill.

^^^ I mean truly as deep as the WR draft was from top to bottom, value really NEVER fell to our spots honestly that much.

The focus is always on the WRs available, but the team could have traded down or drafted at any number of other needed positions (OT, CB, TE). They chose to trade-up. The Packers should just own that they thought he was REALLY good and they wanted him so they traded a 4th in order to move up and GET him; trying to hedge it as "he just kept falling and we felt like we had to take him" is disingenuous. He didn't fall to them, they moved UP to get him.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
The focus is always on the WRs available, but the team could have traded down or drafted at any number of other needed positions (OT, CB, TE). They chose to trade-up. The Packers should just own that they thought he was REALLY good and they wanted him so they traded a 4th in order to move up and GET him; trying to hedge it as "he just kept falling and we felt like we had to take him" is disingenuous. He didn't fall to them, they moved UP to get him.


Exactly. It’s funny that fans were so sure that we were targeting WR and we’re forced to grab love after we missed out. The FO have used their first to select WR twice in the past 40 years. Lets stop trying to Convince ourselves that Jefferson and Aiyuk were the picks that got away. Love had a virtual meeting and the Packers liked him. They viewed him as a franchise QB and traded up to get him. Why is this hard to believe?
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
Exactly. It’s funny that fans were so sure that we were targeting WR and we’re forced to grab love after we missed out. The FO have used their first to select WR twice in the past 40 years. Lets stop trying to Convince ourselves that Jefferson and Aiyuk were the picks that got away. Love had a virtual meeting and the Packers liked him. They viewed him as a franchise QB and traded up to get him. Why is this hard to believe?

It's not hard to believe. It's just not the only plausible explanation.
 
Last edited:

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
It's not hard to believe. It's just hard to believe. It's no the only plausible possibility.


Nobody truly knows what happened. We do know that Gute had a meeting with Love. We also know that the F.O. thought he was worth a trade up. Teams don’t draft first rounders and hope that they don’t play for four years. I’m trying to figure out what was said that fired everybody up.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Nobody truly knows what happened. We do know that Gute had a meeting with Love. We also know that the F.O. thought he was worth a trade up. Teams don’t draft first rounders and hope that they don’t play for four years. I’m trying to figure out what was said that fired everybody up.
It was multiple meetings with Love, virtual or otherwise. What got some people fired up is the word "lie"; others might have been upset by the word "gaslighting" if they buy the story that the right WR would have been taken in a trade up, as though nobody lies or spins in the normal course of their daily business, football GM-ing or coaching or otherwise. Everybody does it.

What were these guys supposed to say? "We've been looking at and interviewing 1st. and 2nd. round QBs for two years now in preparation for 2022. It could even be sooner or maybe a little later, we'll see how things go. It's possible we drafted Brian Brohm 2.0 but we obviously don't think so, but if that's the case franchise-of-the-future" will require a reboot."
 
Last edited by a moderator:

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,597
Reaction score
1,366
Nobody truly knows what happened. We do know that Gute had a meeting with Love. We also know that the F.O. thought he was worth a trade up. Teams don’t draft first rounders and hope that they don’t play for four years. I’m trying to figure out what was said that fired everybody up.
My belief is that yes, they are hoping he does not play for four years.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
My belief is that yes, they are hoping he does not play for four years.
Then what? A 5th. year option (currently $23 mil) for a guy who hasn't played? And they hope a 1st. round pick does not play for 4 years? I don't think so.
 

Pugger

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
2,641
Reaction score
770
Location
***** Gorda, FL
Nobody truly knows what happened. We do know that Gute had a meeting with Love. We also know that the F.O. thought he was worth a trade up. Teams don’t draft first rounders and hope that they don’t play for four years. I’m trying to figure out what was said that fired everybody up.

In 2005 we drafted a QB in the first round and he sat behind a another future HOF QB too. If Love turns out to be a successful franchise QB then not too many folks are going to care about the WRs we didn't draft last month.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
It was multiple meetings with Love, virtual or otherwise. What got some people fired up is the word "lie"; others might have been upset by the word "gaslighting" if they buy the story that the right WR would have been taken in a trade up, as though nobody lies or spins in the normal course of their daily business, football GM-ing or coaching or otherwise. Everybody does it.

What were these guys supposed to say? "We've been looking at and interviewing 1st. and 2nd. round QBs for two years now in preparation for 2022. It could be even be sooner or maybe a little later, we'll see how things go. It's possible we drafted Brian Brohm 2.0 but we obviously don't think so, but if that's the case franchise-of-the-future" will require a reboot."


Ok, I get it. Fans are upset that this article made the organization look bad. Of course there were other targets. There was also a solid chance that Love would be there and they needed to make a franchise decision. This decision hits the organization the same way no matter how you spin it. Rodgers obviously saw the reports and knew they were looking at Love. Do you think he cares about how the Love pick happened? He’s a smart guy and knows the implications. The F.O. selected Love in hopes that he can develop into a future franchise QB. Making him sit 4 years while Rodgers contract runs out makes zero sense (if he’s capable of taking the reigns.) Theres no other reason to make this selection.
 

jon

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
164
Reaction score
18
You can never have too many good quarterbacks. Just look what happened when 12 went down. The Love pick is fine.

It looks bad because obvious areas of need were not aggressively addressed. If Gute had picked up run stopping DT or a legit #2 receiver nobody would be complaining about Love.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,597
Reaction score
1,366
Then what? A 5th. year option (currently $23 mil) for a guy who hasn't played? And they hope a 1st. round pick does not play for 4 years? I don't think so.
It would be a very tough situation if it comes to that. But totally depends how Rodgers is playing and how Love looks. And how well the team is doing. Of course, it has to be taken into consideration that Rodgers can't play forever. But if we were say looking to win 3 super bowls in a row??? I really think a lot of you out there don't understand the value of a QB in this league. You count your pennies and hope to save a few bucks and don't really see the big pic. But I agree that decision time is coming. Probably not for at least two years though. And we really don't know what we have in Love yet. Nor do we know if Rodgers can keep it up.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
It would be a very tough situation if it comes to that. But totally depends how Rodgers is playing and how Love looks.
Bruce Ariens, a guy who knows a few things about grooming QBs, will be starting Tagovailoa, health permitting, saying, "I don't think you learn anything on the sidelines holding a clipboard." That is the reality. So you will not know how Love looks until you put him on the field in money games where the learning begins. I think you'd do that before handing out $23 mil.

Now, there's been some chitter chatter about the possibility of Love taking some Taysom Hill-type snaps, presumably in some option gadgetry. That doesn't count. Hill threw 6 balls last season. Nobody knows what he might do if he had to drop back 600+ times. He's still holding the clipboard.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Ok, I get it. Fans are upset that this article made the organization look bad. Of course there were other targets. There was also a solid chance that Love would be there and they needed to make a franchise decision.
I don't think there were any other targets that were ever plausibly available and the trade up was specifically to draft Love.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
I don't think there were any other targets that were ever plausibly available and the trade up was specifically to draft Love.


I definitely agree. I was talking about pre-draft. There was always a possibility of someone like Isaiah Simmons or Christian Wirfs dropping or maybe Love gets drafted top 20.
 

lambeaulambo

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
2,615
Reaction score
735
Location
Rest Home
Ink has dried. Love's a packer. I have a sneaky suspicion he will surprise the hell out of all of us, I can't put my finger on it as to why. This guy is a physical specimen. If he refines his craft and learns quickly, it could be history repeating itself. As for CBS - this guy is another Colin Cowherd/Skip Bayless type trying to get any controversial hype going to get his unknown name known.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,540
Reaction score
5,261
I've long said the Love pick IS NOT what I'd have done but the logic of it is easily understood if someone just steps back and removes emotional connections with what they wanted.

You can never have too many good quarterbacks. Just look what happened when 12 went down. The Love pick is fine.

^^This is one reason the pick is/could have been done. Yes, they know Aaron is entering the last ride of his HIGH quality football...as he ages, his chance of injury goes up. Having a young, electric and promising backup on a rookie contract is a positive thing.


Making him sit 4 years while Rodgers contract runs out makes zero sense (if he’s capable of taking the reigns.) Theres no other reason to make this selection.

...but there are other reasons. A cheap, but very capable (obviously in the opinion of the organization) back up throughout the remainder of Aaron's contract. If Love shows he is truly capable of taking over when Rodgers leaves, 5th year option and a small sample size could lead to a cheaper contract for the QB of the future when his rookie contract comes up.


My belief is that yes, they are hoping he does not play for four years.

^^barring injury or Aaron wanting out, I feel their thought process is this as well.

Nobody truly knows what happened. We do know that Gute had a meeting with Love. We also know that the F.O. thought he was worth a trade up. Teams don’t draft first rounders and hope that they don’t play for four years.

While the trading up to draft a back up at this level in the draft is not something we commonly see, you are talking about an organization that illustrated the reason you draft a QB for the future, not when forced to but when you can.



In the end the WORST thing the Love pick projects to be is a promising back up that never shows the moxy and chops to take over, but offers an athletic back up quarterback on a rookie contract to play behind Rodgers till his contract is up (ala Hundley)....

Or best case, he serves as a promising back up...shows growth every year and when chances arise (small in game injuries to Rodgers, preseason and such) and when Rodgers decides he's done or reaches the end of his current contract it becomes the Love show. (ala Aaron Rodgers)...

Both are extremes and I think while I think he is MUCH better than the worst scenario, it is impossible to predict the best either...but clearly that is why he was chosen. The organization in their opinion saw him as a QB of the level they simply will never be able to achieve so long as #12 is playing, because I simply don't see us EVER falling to the top 1/3 of the draft unless Aaron goes down a season. So without crashing and burning an entire season, Green Bay clearly saw a chance at in their opinion a top flight QB there for the taking.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I've long said the Love pick IS NOT what I'd have done but the logic of it is easily understood if someone just steps back and removes emotional connections with what they wanted.
You don't need any emotional connections to dislike the Love pick, or any of the first three for that matter without even thinking about WRs.

QB failure rates of guys coming out of the first or second round is very high, with the second round being where Love belonged. Failure rates are extremely high from the middle of the first round down. Among current players, Brees and Wilson were 2nd. and 3rd. rounders as notable exceptions, who happened to be short guys when that mattered more to talent evaluators at large which also goes to show how fallible the group think can tend to be. Brady is of course sui generis. Instead, consider the many others who have wallowed in mediocrity or worse, often big studs with big arms drafted off of physical traits while mind reading is universally spongy.

So, there's a window of opportunity now, at its peak and declining next year with the list of upcoming free agents, and here we are expending a first round pick on a high risk proposition for some undetermined future date where the odds of failure are much higher than the odds of current success no matter how many years Love holds the clipboard. It didn't even need to be a WR to add a player with a decent chance of being a value-add by playoff time.

It seems to me that the experience of having Rodgers fall into the Packers lap, chosen by evaluators who are no longer around by the way, have given Packer fans who support this pick an exaggerated sense of the odds of success.

If you want dispassion, consider the following factor is favor of this pick. At the time of the draft it was evident that league revenue was at high risk with future cap bumps in doubt. If Rodgers was getting very expensive cap-wise in 2020 going forward before Covid hit, that $40 mil cap cost in 2022 is looking astronomical in light of possible cap constraints. I suppose come 2022 one could envision something like the 2017 Eagles, with a stout defense and Love running some Foles-like RPO thingee. While that's possible, it's a long shot compared to the current window. But if you're going that way, then this draft should have loaded up on defensive players ready to go in year 2.

Lots of hedging of bets in this draft at the cost of overvaluing the top 3 picks. And it sure doesn't look like, "It's always win now in Green Bay, Wisconsin," the Gutekunst explanation for last year's free agency haul. If ever there was a "win now", this should be it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
922
It's not hard to believe. It's just not the only plausible explanation.

They moved up. That's not something that happens by accident, Gute didn't just accidentally click the "move up" button. They chose to move up. I think it was a ridiculous choice but you can't paint the choice as anything but an intentional, purposeful move.
 

gbgary

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
3,420
Reaction score
185
Location
up the road from jerrahworld
i think it was pretty much like the BF situation in that they felt the end was/is near and a QB they didn't expect to fall to them did. had he gone sooner they'd have picked a defensive player imo. they're going to tow the PC company line when talking about it and anyone expecting anything different isn't living in reality.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
They moved up. That's not something that happens by accident, Gute didn't just accidentally click the "move up" button. They chose to move up. I think it was a ridiculous choice but you can't paint the choice as anything but an intentional, purposeful move.

???

Obviously...

But that completely misses the point. Maybe they moved up because he was the guy they wanted no matter what. Maybe they moved up because he was the last guy they'd be happy with in the first round, among others. I don't know. But both are plausible.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
I've long said the Love pick IS NOT what I'd have done but the logic of it is easily understood if someone just steps back and removes emotional connections with what they wanted.



^^This is one reason the pick is/could have been done. Yes, they know Aaron is entering the last ride of his HIGH quality football...as he ages, his chance of injury goes up. Having a young, electric and promising backup on a rookie contract is a positive thing.




...but there are other reasons. A cheap, but very capable (obviously in the opinion of the organization) back up throughout the remainder of Aaron's contract. If Love shows he is truly capable of taking over when Rodgers leaves, 5th year option and a small sample size could lead to a cheaper contract for the QB of the future when his rookie contract comes up.




^^barring injury or Aaron wanting out, I feel their thought process is this as well.



While the trading up to draft a back up at this level in the draft is not something we commonly see, you are talking about an organization that illustrated the reason you draft a QB for the future, not when forced to but when you can.



In the end the WORST thing the Love pick projects to be is a promising back up that never shows the moxy and chops to take over, but offers an athletic back up quarterback on a rookie contract to play behind Rodgers till his contract is up (ala Hundley)....

Or best case, he serves as a promising back up...shows growth every year and when chances arise (small in game injuries to Rodgers, preseason and such) and when Rodgers decides he's done or reaches the end of his current contract it becomes the Love show. (ala Aaron Rodgers)...

Both are extremes and I think while I think he is MUCH better than the worst scenario, it is impossible to predict the best either...but clearly that is why he was chosen. The organization in their opinion saw him as a QB of the level they simply will never be able to achieve so long as #12 is playing, because I simply don't see us EVER falling to the top 1/3 of the draft unless Aaron goes down a season. So without crashing and burning an entire season, Green Bay clearly saw a chance at in their opinion a top flight QB there for the taking.


No offense but the FO has some of you brainwashed. Everyone outside of the Packers fan base sees it. Daniel Jones was drafted and we thought that Eli’s days were numbered. Mahomes is taken and we all thought that Smith was on his way out. Love gets taken and everyone says “no” “no” “We traded up for Love so we have a capable back up until Rodgers contract ends.” What? On what planet do teams do this? I know what MLF said and it’s called collateral damage. The Giants and Chiefs F.O. Said the same things. Best case scenario is that Love shows promise after 2 years and they can get something for Rodgers. Worst case is he absolutely stinks and never plays as a starter (waste of a pick.)
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,540
Reaction score
5,261
Oh my God, it is like some of you have never been able to have a discussion and or state reasons even if they are not your own before. LoL

I guess I need to have a lot more disclaimers and explanation that "what I'm about to present is a valid thought process despite it possibly not being true OR my own.
 

Sunshinepacker

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,800
Reaction score
922
???

Obviously...

But that completely misses the point. Maybe they moved up because he was the guy they wanted no matter what. Maybe they moved up because he was the last guy they'd be happy with in the first round, among others. I don't know. But both are plausible.

Yes, they are. However, the front office pretending he fell to them is not true, he didn't fall. Mind you, the only reason I care about this is because it's a topic and I'm bored without sports. It's amazing what constitutes a subject worth discussing when sports aren't on.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top