Brandon McManus

[tynimiller]

That all sounds wonderful. Right up until Malik becomes our Starter and it’s 10 minutes remaining in the 4th Quarter of a Divisional game and we are up 21-17 and a long 6-7 minute TD drive puts them away.
Then that futuristic Tyron Hopper selection doesn’t sound so good!
Watch him become a HOF player now!

For me, it makes perfect sense in a Rebuild, my opinion would change rapidly. I’d be promoting draft picks and having a fire sale. Here we are coming off what’s likely a 12+ Win season. One which we might not have even qualified for with 10 Wins had Malik not so eloquently come in and surprised.

If you're in a rebuild you would move Love not Willis thinking forward cheaper.

There is a TON of reasons and defense to both keeping Willis or moving him.

Fiscally this team on the horizon of the future have a TON of fiscal decisions impending that will take more than minimums:

This offseason - Myers, McManus, Stokes, TJ Slaton....heading into the 2025 draft year
Next offseason - Watson, Willis, Doubs, Rhyan, Tom, Enagbare, Rasheed Walker...heading into 2026 draft year
The year after that - Quay, Nixon, Wyatt, Musgrave, Reed, Kraft, Wooden, Brooks, Wicks, Valentine...heading to the 2027 draft year

*If you trade Willis this off season before the draft, you can attempt to possibly make the departure of THREE starting offensive lineman in Tom, Rhyan and Walker the following year manageable.

Now if you keep him for 2025 but trade him in that season for 2026 draft return you have a stab at replacing maybe a TE knowing Musgrave and Kraft are both done next...or grab a DL replacement for Wooden, Wyatt, Brooks all in final year...

If you keep Willis the entire 2025 season and let him sign a FA contract you will be getting a 2027 draft pick, which is fine and who knows could be as high as the rare 3rd round compensatory picks sometimes that happen - but you don't get a chance to take a swing at preparing for any of the above mentioned guys that are swaths of specific position groups at a time.

This is a perfect example of the decisions I would want no part of Gute's job...their is immense value in having Willis as your backup it seems...there is also immense value in having an additional top 100 pick to hopefully make resigning a guy not as "dire". I'm just happy this is a decision we are facing because that means we hit on Willis of course.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If you keep Willis the entire 2025 season and let him sign a FA contract you will be getting a 2027 draft pick

Not necessarily. It would all depend on who the Packers sign in Free Agency in 2026. But yes, Willis signing elsewhere, would give the Packers plus points on the good side of the leger when computing comp picks.

 

[tynimiller]

Not necessarily. It would all depend on who the Packers sign in Free Agency in 2026. But yes, Willis signing elsewhere, would give the Packers plus points on the good side of the leger when computing comp picks.

I highly doubt with the contracts impending after 2025 we won't be spenders that off season at all heading into 2026 unless some unforeseen decisions to not sign any or hardly any of them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I highly doubt with the contracts impending after 2025 we won't be spenders that off season at all heading into 2026 unless some unforeseen decisions to not sign any or hardly any of them.

The Packers are in great cap shape moving forward, at least into 2025. So with not many pressing new big contracts after this season, they could use some of that money to give out new contracts to those expiring at the end of 2026. Just never know what Gute and Ball will do with those cap numbers.

Updated Packers cap space should concern the rest of the NFL in 2025

A quick look at the Green Bay Packers' salary cap situation is exciting ahead of an important offseason for this team.

lombardiave.com

 

[Voyageur]

The Packers are in great cap shape moving forward, at least into 2025. So with not many pressing new big contracts after this season, they could use some of that money to give out new contracts to those expiring at the end of 2026. Just never know what Gute and Ball will do with those cap numbers.

Updated Packers cap space should concern the rest of the NFL in 2025

A quick look at the Green Bay Packers' salary cap situation is exciting ahead of an important offseason for this team.

lombardiave.com

That's a great article. That cap space is something that the Packers can use without putting themselves in a bad spot down the road. Those big contracts that for guys no longer around are a back breaker. What makes it even more interesting is that they can pay bucks up front and not have it backloaded on a contract where they eat it in the end.

We may be looking at building a DYNASTY!!!!!!!!

 

[tynimiller]

The Packers are in great cap shape moving forward, at least into 2025. So with not many pressing new big contracts after this season, they could use some of that money to give out new contracts to those expiring at the end of 2026. Just never know what Gute and Ball will do with those cap numbers.

Updated Packers cap space should concern the rest of the NFL in 2025

A quick look at the Green Bay Packers' salary cap situation is exciting ahead of an important offseason for this team.

lombardiave.com

Yup, I actually predict Tom or Rasheed getting extensions is more likely than not - which eliminates that off season where we lose three of our starters along the OL. Truthfully everyone is thinking Watson or Doubs....there is a chance Gute has a lot more conversations with staff and Russ about what two of the starting three (Walker, Rhyan and Tom) are we resigning?

**I'd honestly embrace an announcement that we are extending say Tom this year with two or three year extension and use some of this year's space to cover portion of it without changing much forward still.

 

[tynimiller]

Truth be told Walker and Tom could both be resigned and shore up both ends of our line for years, BUT the cost would be decent chunk of change!!

 

[OldSchool101]

1000% agree. I said it earlier in the season, nothing but a first rounder or early 2nd rounder makes me part with Malik Willis in 2025. Cheap contract, ton of experience and a proven track record as a guy that can come in as the starter or off the bench and play well. It really is hard to put a price tag on a quality backup like Willis, but a 3rd rounder or later? No Thanks. This will be a solid roster in 2025, one that should be in contention, that is unless Love gets injured and all they got is a rookie or Sean Clifford to fill in.

Just something to pair with that. Our 3rd Round success has been less than stellar, so maybe that’s clouding my opinion. I’ll be honest though if someone came in with top 50 area collateral I might rethink my position. That firepower gets my attention.

One thing that’s helped is our number of recent draft picks. We haven’t even really got Marshawn or Hopper going. So for me adding another one isn’t that appealing. It’s like we’ve already got that 3rd on board.

Come on with an aggressive offer.
Top 50 and swap your 4th for my 5th and I’ll send him to you overnight delivery with lunch packed

 

[JPPT1974]

Yeah as the FG team and getting a consistent kicker despite the recent off the field troubles, need McManus to step on up.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just something to pair with that. Our 3rd Round success has been less than stellar, so maybe that’s clouding my opinion. I’ll be honest though if someone came in with top 50 area collateral I might rethink my position. That firepower gets my attention.

For those that would consider trading Willis away after this season, answer me these questions:

1. Who do you replace him with?
2. What resources will you use to obtain his replacement?
3. How will his replacement do if Love goes down?
4. What are the stats of all Packer back-ups pre Love (Matt Flynn's crazy last game of the season against the Lions aside)?

With Malik, The Packers invested what will end up being one of the last 15 or so picks in the draft. He will have a cap hit of $1.4M next season. Hard to find as impactful player as Malik has been/can be, with that kind of investment.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Backup QB is way undervalued. I have no issues with a 1st-3rd being used to shore up that position for 4-5 years rather than perpetually trying to draft some 7th round project guy in hopes that he learns something in 4 years. Why I had no issue with the drafting of Love. We did that this year and kept Pratt or Clifford we are looking at probably a 9-6 or 8-7 record right now.

Given the value of backup QBs, If it's a 1st/high 2nd, I'll listen. 3rd or later? Nope. I'll keep him for another year and probably get a compensatory draft pick equal to that offer and have a security blanket in 2025.

 

[OldSchool101]

For those that would consider trading Willis away after this season, answer me these questions:

1. Who do you replace him with?
2. What resources will you use to obtain his replacement?
3. How will his replacement do if Love goes down?
4. What are the stats of all Packer back-ups pre Love (Matt Flynn's crazy last game of the season against the Lions aside)?

I’m bored so playing Devils advocate for pro trade.

While I haven’t researched the direct names, in most seasons there are a group of veterans that are lower end Starter types. In recent past teams signed some very good backups in that $5-8mil area. Probably as formidable as Willis but without long term upside which we won’t benefit from anyway. I suspect a $6-7m veteran is going to win more games than not with a D allowing under 20 points per and a good OL with Top 5 Rushing. We’ve been running 53% of time anyway so that takes immense pressure off a backup. Matt Flynn ($1.3X1.5 seasons)was not a seasoned $6-$7mil year quality level backup. The Packers paid him about $3-4Mil tops for his services in real time $$. About 50% of what I’d top off at to get a good backup.

The trade off here in my scenario?
a Top 50 selection in real time.
I’d do what Gute does and move back to #55-60 overall for a 4th or 5th Rounder.
Yes we’d spend 2X$12mil at QB2 to replace Willis. Offset is we could be looking at picking with draft authority. Plus getting 2 players under 4 year Rookie $

Start by getting our CB and DE in FA with known veteran quantities. Then draft here

#32 OT (Rasheed successor)
#56 WR (Watson or Doubs successor)
#64 DT (Wyatt successor)
#96 LB (Quay successor)
#123 OC/G (Myers Successor to compete with Monk (5th/4th swap asked from Willis trade)
#131 TE (natural)
#134 CB (Compensatory trade back from #50 to#56)

 

[OldSchool101]

one thing GB does well and that’s developing QB. Look at what happened to Darnold when he broke free and got to MN. Coaching is everything and many veterans are put in less than ideal situations.
There’s no doubt in my mind we could find a suitable veteran QB that’s looking for a good opportunity in GB. Might not even cost $6-7m.
Just being associated with GB on your resume can spark interest from other teams after a season or two. Malik is an ideal example. I could see a QB coming on a 3X$15 with 50% guar type deal. Then we develop and keep the cycle going.

 

[OldSchool101]

one thing GB does well and that’s developing QB. Look at what happened to Darnold when he broke free and got to MN. Coaching is everything. There’s no doubt in my mind we could find a suitable QB that’s looking for a good opportunity in GB. Just being associated with GB on your resume can spark interest from other teams after a season or two. Malik is an ideal example of how we can turn a QB2 into + capital. He would not be the first QB traded for capital and he won’t be the last.
If Sam Darnold was just signed for $10m, then I’m sure there’s similar unfound talent out there in that $5-8m area etc. that’s itching for a QB2 spot on a very good team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I’m bored so playing Devils advocate for pro trade.

While I haven’t researched the direct names, in most seasons there are a group of veterans that are lower end Starter types. In recent past teams signed some very good backups in that $5-8mil area. Probably as formidable as Willis but without long term upside which we won’t benefit from anyway. I suspect a $6-7m veteran is going to win more games than not with a D allowing under 20 points per and a good OL with Top 5 Rushing. We’ve been running 53% of time anyway so that takes immense pressure off a backup. Matt Flynn ($1.3X1.5 seasons)was not a seasoned $6-$7mil year quality level backup. The Packers paid him about $3-4Mil tops for his services in real time $$. About 50% of what I’d top off at to get a good backup.

The trade off here in my scenario?
a Top 50 selection in real time.
I’d do what Gute does and move back to #55-60 overall for a 4th or 5th Rounder.
Yes we’d spend 2X$12mil at QB2 to replace Willis. Offset is we could be looking at picking with draft authority. Plus getting 2 players under 4 year Rookie $

Start by getting our CB and DE in FA with known veteran quantities. Then draft here

#32 OT (Rasheed successor)
#56 WR (Watson or Doubs successor)
#64 DT (Wyatt successor)
#96 LB (Quay successor)
#123 OC/G (Myers Successor to compete with Monk (5th/4th swap asked from Willis trade)
#131 TE (natural)
#134 CB (Compensatory trade back from #50 to#56)

If Malick wasn't a QB or we had a decent #3, I could see your scenario. My problem is your scenario costs the Packers that $5-8M extra for a QB that may or may not play well in the Packer system. With Malik, we already know what we have and at his age (25) I predict that to even get better. If you trade him, you have to replace him, and just what are you going to get with that replacement?

You also spend more money than you gain by trading out Malik's contract of $1.4M for say a #50 pick. In 2024, the #50 pick, CB Mike Sainristil got the following deal:

4 year , $7,702,336 contract with the Washington Commanders, including $2,421,700 signing bonus, $4,361,806 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,925,584. In 2024, Sainristil will earn a base salary of $795,000 and a signing bonus of $2,421,700, while carrying a cap hit of $1,400,425 and a dead cap value of $4,361,806

I just wouldn't want to trade a known commodity away, at the most important backup position in Football, tie up a lot more money, in 2 players that could be busts or booms. New rookie contracts are "nice", unless said rookie is a bust and you are still on the hook for all of his guarantees.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

one thing GB does well and that’s developing QB.

OK, besides the obvious 4 : Favre, Rodgers, Love and no to an extent, Willis.....what QB's have the Packers had success developing under the current coaching staff or even in the last 15 years?

To increase the chances of drafting and developing a QB, for a backup role, how high of a pick are you going to use?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If it's a 1st/high 2nd, I'll listen. 3rd or later? Nope. I'll keep him for another year and probably get a compensatory draft pick equal to that offer and have a security blanket in 2025.

So trade Willis, for a high pick, that you plan on using on the 5th, 6th or beyond best QB in the draft? Unless you get lucky, all that guarantees is you have a warm body to backup Love, at a pretty high guaranteed contract.

The more I process this, the more I think it would be absolutely silly for the Packers to trade Willis away. Really, the only way I see it making sense is if Willis and his agent say "New Contract or Trade Me, otherwise I sit."

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

Truth be told Walker and Tom could both be resigned and shore up both ends of our line for years, BUT the cost would be decent chunk of change!!

Just ask the giants for example how much a good o line is worth? 85-100% of their offensive issues are o line play. And this isn't a dig on love/doubs/mlf just using them in this example, if love is a good qb and mlf is an offensive mind they can make a receiver better especially by year 2 or 3 so why not let doubs walk and still have reed/watson/kraft/Musgrave etc. You may have a better receiver then doubs or worse, but for cap and line purposes even though I'm a big fan of doubs the risk of losing him and shoring up good o line play is worth it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just ask the giants for example how much a good o line is worth? 85-100% of their offensive issues are o line play. And this isn't a dig on love/doubs/mlf just using them in this example, if love is a good qb and mlf is an offensive mind they can make a receiver better especially by year 2 or 3 so why not let doubs walk and still have reed/watson/kraft/Musgrave etc. You may have a better receiver then doubs or worse, but for cap and line purposes even though I'm a big fan of doubs the risk of losing him and shoring up good o line play is worth it.

I'm not going to do the math again, because I already did it in another post. This seasons OL should be proof that you don't need to spend a ton of money on each of the 5 starters or their backups. Good scouting, drafting and coaching can really make up for overpaid talent, IMO. I would rather have 5 average-good players, than a $25+M LT and 4 average to below players filling in the rest of the spots.

I do remember from my math, the 5 startes on the OL this season, are being paid less than one season of David Bakhtiari. Remove Elgton Jenkins salary from the math and it is really something to behold.

Now will that always work? Probably not, but I would rather spread the money for the OL over 5-7 players than have 1-2 overpaid guys. Sure, those $20+M/year players are good, but when they are injured or surrounded by guys who shouldn't be starting in the NFL, that doesn't do a team a whole lot of good.

BTW, I think the Giants spent twice as much as the Packers on their OL this season.

 

[OldSchool101]

by trading out Malik's contract of $1.4M for say a #50 pick. In 2024, the #50 pick, CB Mike Sainristil got the following deal:

4 year , $7,702,336 contract with the Washington Commanders,

Yeah but 1.9M vs 1.3M isn’t a compelling argument. Especially when the 1.3M gets you 1 year. The 1.9M gets you 4yrs and we all know that each passing year that 600K salary differential closes each passing contract year. It’s more like 400K best case savings. You can’t even get a Subway 12” cold cut combo for that unless you 86 the drink!

OK, besides the obvious 4 : Favre, Rodgers, Love and no to an extent, Willis.....what QB's have the Packers had success developing under the current coaching staff or even in the last 15 years?

Well I think you just nailed my answer there in your question. I shouldn’t even have to go past that. The only backup QB we brought aboard I can think of that was Kizer who was a higher pick, but we’re desperate to ditch Randall the problem CB and the Browns were just desperate to ditch a long shot project. It was like exchanging items in a yard sale. Lol
Ok Brian Brohm was the only other one but he was a 2nd Rounder from 2006? So we’re 3 of 4, 4 of 6 something like that.

Really the rest of the QB we are talking about are a group of Day 3 selections. Later 4th at the earliest to later 7th. Which really wasn’t my argument either way.
I said go get one FA. There’s always several advantage there are other guys like Malik that have matured over a couple seasons vs a Green Pea Draft pick.

Carson Wentz signed 1yr 3.3M /2.2guar with K.C. It’s just an example of a guy that is a very reliable backup

 

[Firethorn1001]

So trade Willis, for a high pick, that you plan on using on the 5th, 6th or beyond best QB in the draft? Unless you get lucky, all that guarantees is you have a warm body to backup Love, at a pretty high guaranteed contract.

The more I process this, the more I think it would be absolutely silly for the Packers to trade Willis away. Really, the only way I see it making sense is if Willis and his agent say "New Contract or Trade Me, otherwise I sit."

I didn't say trade him to use that pick on a QB in the 1st round. They are 2 separate things. If at some point the Packers use a high draft pick on a QB I'm not going to get all upset.

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

I'm not going to do the math again, because I already did it in another post. This seasons OL should be proof that you don't need to spend a ton of money on each of the 5 starters or their backups. Good scouting, drafting and coaching can really make up for overpaid talent, IMO. I would rather have 5 average-good players, than a $25+M LT and 4 average to below players filling in the rest of the spots.

I do remember from my math, the 5 startes on the OL this season, are being paid less than one season of David Bakhtiari. Remove Elgton Jenkins salary from the math and it is really something to behold.

Now will that always work? Probably not, but I would rather spread the money for the OL over 5-7 players than have 1-2 overpaid guys. Sure, those $20+M/year players are good, but when they are injured or surrounded by guys who shouldn't be starting in the NFL, that doesn't do a team a whole lot of good.

BTW, I think the Giants spent twice as much as the Packers on their OL this season.

And what if scouting didn't work out to well? Or coaching? Again, using the giants as an example they scouted top notch and drafted top notch in their minds but didn't work out to well. Same thing could happen to us. We shored up rodgers when he was good, we shored up love because they are cornerstones. My point was you need a good line to protect them. There is always a price point for every position I agree, but to keep your qb healthy it's worth a good chunk of change.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If you're in a rebuild you would move Love not Willis thinking forward cheaper.

There is a TON of reasons and defense to both keeping Willis or moving him.

Fiscally this team on the horizon of the future have a TON of fiscal decisions impending that will take more than minimums:

This offseason - Myers, McManus, Stokes, TJ Slaton....heading into the 2025 draft year
Next offseason - Watson, Willis, Doubs, Rhyan, Tom, Enagbare, Rasheed Walker...heading into 2026 draft year
The year after that - Quay, Nixon, Wyatt, Musgrave, Reed, Kraft, Wooden, Brooks, Wicks, Valentine...heading to the 2027 draft year

*If you trade Willis this off season before the draft, you can attempt to possibly make the departure of THREE starting offensive what I'll lineman in Tom, Rhyan and Walker the following year manageable.

Now if you keep him for 2025 but trade him in that season for 2026 draft return you have a stab at replacing maybe a TE knowing Musgrave and Kraft are both done next...or grab a DL replacement for Wooden, Wyatt, Brooks all in final year...

If you keep Willis the entire 2025 season and let him sign a FA contract you will be getting a 2027 draft pick, which is fine and who knows could be as high as the rare 3rd round compensatory picks sometimes that happen - but you don't get a chance to take a swing at preparing for any of the above mentioned guys that are swaths of specific position groups at a time.

This is a perfect example of the decisions I would want no part of Gute's job...their is immense value in having Willis as your backup it seems...there is also immense value in having an additional top 100 pick to hopefully make resigning a guy not as "dire". I'm just happy this is a decision we are facing because that means we hit on Willis of course.

If I recall, Ron Wolf was pretty good at drafting backup QBs, developing them and then trading them. I recall he did it with Aaron Brooks, and I think he did it with Matt Hassellback.

Thanks for the detail on guys coming up for a new contract, and when. Gluten will certainly earn his paycheck juggling all that. He's also been pretty good at spotting "mid-level" talent. He's also done well with FA. We just need him to keep the streak going.

That's why it would be great timing to put together a SB run this season. As always happens, personnel moves in the off season result in fielding very different teams. A win tomorrow in MN would be a nice start.

 

[gopkrs]

Just ask the giants for example how much a good o line is worth? 85-100% of their offensive issues are o line play. And this isn't a dig on love/doubs/mlf just using them in this example, if love is a good qb and mlf is an offensive mind they can make a receiver better especially by year 2 or 3 so why not let doubs walk and still have reed/watson/kraft/Musgrave etc. You may have a better receiver then doubs or worse, but for cap and line purposes even though I'm a big fan of doubs the risk of losing him and shoring up good o line play is worth it.

Certainly agree on the importance of the O line. I do think we got a little lucky on Doubs and Reed. Watson was basically a 1st rounder w/o the 5th year. I'm hoping we can keep them all. It opens up draft choices for O line and... I don't know what the money will be but it isn't like they are all number 1 receivers. Could be money very well spent imho. And you won't be able to beat the connection they will have with Love and LaFleur.

 

[OldSchool101]

Certainly agree on the importance of the O line. I do think we got a little lucky on Doubs and Reed. Watson was basically a 1st rounder w/o the 5th year. I'm hoping we can keep them all. It opens up draft choices for O line and... I don't know what the money will be but it isn't like they are all number 1 receivers. Could be money very well spent imho. And you won't be able to beat the connection they will have with Love and LaFleur.

I’d like to see us upgrade at CB and Edge in FA. They don’t need to be record breaking deals, but more an upgrade to what we lost with Preston and a good veteran CB that is reliable and that 2nd Tier Starter quality.

That opens an opportunity to draft another Day 2 WR to groom with a year of overlap. Then I’d keep 1 of either Watson or Doubs. I’d prefer Watson if he regains his health going forward. His ceiling is a little better and it’s harder to replace a deep threat like him.