Assorted Debates

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

My list takes value to the Franchise into consideration and the fact of the matter is that when Vick is gone the Falcons are well below .500

He helps his team win, true, but not because of his ability as a QB. His feet and how elusive he is are his biggest assets as a player. He has great arm strength and no accuracy and poor decision making on his throws.

The Simple fact of the matter is that he has been improving and he is a winnner. Overrated yes but so is Brett Favre.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

My list takes value to the Franchise into consideration and the fact of the matter is that when Vick is gone the Falcons are well below .500

He helps his team win, true, but not because of his ability as a QB. His feet and how elusive he is are his biggest assets as a player. He has great arm strength and no accuracy and poor decision making on his throws.

The Simple fact of the matter is that he has been improving and he is a winnner. Overrated yes but so is Brett Favre.

After 5 years he should be improving!
After 5 years Brett had a SB ring. FACT.

He's a good player to have on your team, but not as your starting QB. That is FACT

 

[thetombradyhater]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

My list takes value to the Franchise into consideration and the fact of the matter is that when Vick is gone the Falcons are well below .500

He helps his team win, true, but not because of his ability as a QB. His feet and how elusive he is are his biggest assets as a player. He has great arm strength and no accuracy and poor decision making on his throws.

The Simple fact of the matter is that he has been improving and he is a winnner. Overrated yes but so is Brett Favre.

did you miss my posts he hasn't been improving look at my post, he best year was i second and last year was actually his worst year out of the three he started most the games in

 

[longtimefan]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Vick and years he has played

Ratings
62.7
81.6
69
78.1
73.1
75.8 <<< his avg rating

INT
3
8
3
12
13

tds ( passing)
2
16
4
14
15

tds ( rushing)
1
8
1
3
6

yards ( passing)
785
2936
585
2313
2412

yards ( rushing)
289
777
255
902
597

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

My list takes value to the Franchise into consideration and the fact of the matter is that when Vick is gone the Falcons are well below .500

He helps his team win, true, but not because of his ability as a QB. His feet and how elusive he is are his biggest assets as a player. He has great arm strength and no accuracy and poor decision making on his throws.

The Simple fact of the matter is that he has been improving and he is a winnner. Overrated yes but so is Brett Favre.

After 5 years he should be improving!
After 5 years Brett had a SB ring. FACT.

He's a good player to have on your team, but not as your starting QB. That is FACT

So he is a bad player to have on your team? The Falcons disagree, Vick is a winner, I would take Vick over Roethlisberger any day of the week. Vick also suffered system changes and horrible coaches.

 

[DePack]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

My list takes value to the Franchise into consideration and the fact of the matter is that when Vick is gone the Falcons are well below .500

He helps his team win, true, but not because of his ability as a QB. His feet and how elusive he is are his biggest assets as a player. He has great arm strength and no accuracy and poor decision making on his throws.

The Simple fact of the matter is that he has been improving and he is a winnner. Overrated yes but so is Brett Favre.

After 5 years he should be improving!
After 5 years Brett had a SB ring. FACT.

He's a good player to have on your team, but not as your starting QB. That is FACT

So he is a bad player to have on your team? The Falcons disagree, Vick is a winner, I would take Vick over Roethlisberger any day of the week. Vick also suffered system changes and horrible coaches.

Don't forget about 9/11, Katrina and the fact that he has six toes on each foot. Can you find any other excuses for him.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

After 5 years he should be improving!
After 5 years Brett had a SB ring. FACT.

He's a good player to have on your team, but not as your starting QB. That is FACT

So he is a bad player to have on your team? The Falcons disagree, Vick is a winner, I would take Vick over Roethlisberger any day of the week. Vick also suffered system changes and horrible coaches.

Did you even read what I said?

 

[digsthepack]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

To me, greatness is defined as SUSTAINED levels of extraordinarilly high performance. Vick and Culpepper have not done this.

Culpepper in particular had benefited from Randy Moss's presence during the majority of his career....don't need to read defenses....just chuck it up and let Randy chase it down. The guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and does not display even a rudimentary understanding of what defenses try to do.

Vick does not even belong in this conversation as he is not even a QB. Hey, you can put a train conductor in the cockpit of a 747 but it does not make him a pilot.

Favre is still top 10. Manning has choke troubles and is therefore overrated. Green is terribly underrated. And McNabb does not even belong in the top 7.

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

To me, greatness is defined as SUSTAINED levels of extraordinarilly high performance. Vick and Culpepper have not done this.

Culpepper in particular had benefited from Randy Moss's presence during the majority of his career....don't need to read defenses....just chuck it up and let Randy chase it down. The guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and does not display even a rudimentary understanding of what defenses try to do.

Vick does not even belong in this conversation as he is not even a QB. Hey, you can put a train conductor in the cockpit of a 747 but it does not make him a pilot.

Favre is still top 10. Manning has choke troubles and is therefore overrated. Green is terribly underrated. And McNabb does not even belong in the top 7.

I find it terribly hard to argue with people when they say thing like this last paragraph, which is homerism and ignorance at its best. The fact of the matter is that Vick is valuable to the Falcons and he wins with them despite system changes, spotty supporting cast and sub-par coaching. This is not a hard and fast list, its fluid.

 

[tromadz]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

but Green is terribly underrated!

The falcons win? they won like mike sherman won. nice, purty regular season, and not much in the playoffs.

 

[pyledriver80]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

To me, greatness is defined as SUSTAINED levels of extraordinarilly high performance. Vick and Culpepper have not done this.

Culpepper in particular had benefited from Randy Moss's presence during the majority of his career....don't need to read defenses....just chuck it up and let Randy chase it down. The guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and does not display even a rudimentary understanding of what defenses try to do.

Vick does not even belong in this conversation as he is not even a QB. Hey, you can put a train conductor in the cockpit of a 747 but it does not make him a pilot.

Favre is still top 10. Manning has choke troubles and is therefore overrated. Green is terribly underrated. And McNabb does not even belong in the top 7.

I find it terribly hard to argue with people when they say thing like this last paragraph, which is homerism and ignorance at its best. The fact of the matter is that Vick is valuable to the Falcons and he wins with them despite system changes, spotty supporting cast and sub-par coaching. This is not a hard and fast list, its fluid.

You act like Favre being in the top 10 is OUTRAGEOUS. I have seen several TOP QB lists with Brett rated as high as 4 and the majority have him in the top 10. I think you may be suffering from a little homerism ranking him that low.


Vick is not a top 15 QB in any way, either is Big Ben, McNabb is to high, etc.

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

To me, greatness is defined as SUSTAINED levels of extraordinarilly high performance. Vick and Culpepper have not done this.

Culpepper in particular had benefited from Randy Moss's presence during the majority of his career....don't need to read defenses....just chuck it up and let Randy chase it down. The guy is dumb as a bag of rocks and does not display even a rudimentary understanding of what defenses try to do.

Vick does not even belong in this conversation as he is not even a QB. Hey, you can put a train conductor in the cockpit of a 747 but it does not make him a pilot.

Favre is still top 10. Manning has choke troubles and is therefore overrated. Green is terribly underrated. And McNabb does not even belong in the top 7.

I find it terribly hard to argue with people when they say thing like this last paragraph, which is homerism and ignorance at its best. The fact of the matter is that Vick is valuable to the Falcons and he wins with them despite system changes, spotty supporting cast and sub-par coaching. This is not a hard and fast list, its fluid.

You act like Favre being in the top 10 is OUTRAGEOUS. I have seen several TOP QB lists with Brett rated as high as 4 and the majority have him in the top 10. I think you may be suffering from a little homerism ranking him that low.


Vick is not a top 15 QB in any way, either is Big Ben, McNabb is to high, etc.

Id like to hear why McNabb is too high, maybe slightly but only slightly. Favre is lucky to be where he is, he is not the player he once was and he will do nothing but hurt the Franchise.

 

[Philtration]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Vick is a winner? Since when? What has he lead the Falcons to so far?
I saw him roll over and give up at Soldier Field while the Bears pounded his over rated *** into the frozen turf.
He did the same thing in Philly a couple of years ago.
Now that I think about it... he would not even make a decent RB because he can not take the beating.

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Vick is a winner? Since when? What has he lead the Falcons to so far?
I saw him roll over and give up at Soldier Field while the Bears pounded his over rated *** into the frozen turf.
He did the same thing in Philly a couple of years ago.
Now that I think about it... he would not even make a decent RB because he can not take the beating.

Falcons are well below .500 without Vick, well over .500 with him.

 

[all about da packers]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

I'm not sure Vick is that important to Atlanta, because Schuab did a great job last year in his lone start, and ultimately proved that the Falcons WRs aren't so bad.

he is not the player he once was and he will do nothing but hurt the Franchise.

Would like to see you expand on what you mean by this.

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

I'm not sure Vick is that important to Atlanta, because Schuab did a great job last year in his lone start, and ultimately proved that the Falcons WRs aren't so bad.

he is not the player he once was and he will do nothing but hurt the Franchise.

Would like to see you expand on what you mean by this.

Favre is doing nothing to help that Franchise, he is delaying Aaron's development, you can learn only so much sitting, he needs starting expirence to achieve his apex. Favre is there for another play-off season and thats nothing but being greedy, he is already a HOFer. Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

 

[NDPackerFan]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Wow, popcorn....not trying to get into a fight with you here but that's the most ignorant post ever. Serious.

By the way, are you a friend of Brett? Do you know his agent? How do you know that's why Brett came back and even if it was, how the hell is that greedy?

I think I'll forget you made that stupid post because I had a great deal of respect for your insight up to this point. You seemed like a level-headed Vikings fan, which almost seems like an oxymoron.

 

[thetombradyhater]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Wow, popcorn....not trying to get into a fight with you here but that's the most ignorant post ever. Serious.

By the way, are you a friend of Brett? Do you know his agent? How do you know that's why Brett came back and even if it was, how the hell is that greedy?

I think I'll forget you made that stupid post because I had a great deal of respect for your insight up to this point. You seemed like a level-headed Vikings fan, which almost seems like an oxymoron.

:yeah:

 

[all about da packers]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Favre is doing nothing to help that Franchise, he is delaying Aaron's development, you can learn only so much sitting, he needs starting expirence to achieve his apex. Favre is there for another play-off season and thats nothing but being greedy, he is already a HOFer. Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

I have to disagree with you. First of all, A-Rod is 21, and doesn't even have 4 full years at the NCAA level. He needs to spend time learning and adapting to the NFL speed and all the little things, which he will be better of doing in practice for at least a couple of years.

As you say he needs starting experience, if we throw him into the fire already and he will likely get killed, his confidence will take a HUGE hit. It will be another matter all together to get his confidence back up.

Finally, Brett is still Brett. He is still the best QB in at least the NFC North. He is able to release the ball quicker than anyone else, he is able to throw the ball with almost as much power as he has ever done, and the new workouts he started doing a few years back have really kept his back and pelvic area strong, something which can't be bad in the NFL.

Brett is why the Packers had a chance in the games last season. You can't deny the fact that he threw for 3800+ yards, 3rd best in the NFL with only one credited WR. No one else in the NFC could have done the same. Is he the same Favre of 96/97? No. But to suggest he is washed up is not fair given all that he continues to do.

 

[pyledriver80]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Favre is doing nothing to help that Franchise, he is delaying Aaron's development, you can learn only so much sitting, he needs starting expirence to achieve his apex. Favre is there for another play-off season and thats nothing but being greedy, he is already a HOFer. Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

I'm sorry Popcorn but this is the most idiotic post ever. So Favre should retire so A-Rod can take over? Does that mean A-Rod should retire so Ingle Martin can take over as well? Is A-Rod holding Martin back? Is Brad Johnson holding Mike McMahon back?


Wanting to take your team to the Playoffs instead of struggling with virtual rookie is being selfish?


Brett's still a top ten QB, without a doubt. You are basing your opinion on last season solely because you WANT Brett to be done. If this is the case how can Culpepper be 5. What did he do last year? What about McNabb?

 

[Anubis]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

ITYM, it would be better for the Queens. It's funny how it seems consistant that fans of the Queens, Lions and Bears all seem to think Brett should retire because "he is hurting the team". I remember when Joey Heatherton was QB of the Lions, I hoped he would retire there... at 45. That would almost guarantee 2 division wins a year for the Pack. :lol:

As far as Vick being a top 10 QB... Wasn't Atlanta one of the 4 teams GB beat last season? That says a lot right there.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[Philtration]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

ITYM, it would be better for the Queens. It's funny how it seems consistant that fans of the Queens, Lions and Bears all seem to think Brett should retire because "he is hurting the team". I remember when Joey Heatherton was QB of the Lions, I hoped he would retire there... at 45. That would almost guarantee 2 division wins a year for the Pack. :lol:

As far as Vick being a top 10 QB... Wasn't Atlanta one of the 4 teams GB beat last season? That says a lot right there.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

I never said that Favre should retire. I said that he should make up his mind and then shut up about it. That is pretty much how fans all over the country feel about him to tell you the truth.

 

[pyledriver80]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

ITYM, it would be better for the Queens. It's funny how it seems consistant that fans of the Queens, Lions and Bears all seem to think Brett should retire because "he is hurting the team". I remember when Joey Heatherton was QB of the Lions, I hoped he would retire there... at 45. That would almost guarantee 2 division wins a year for the Pack. :lol:

As far as Vick being a top 10 QB... Wasn't Atlanta one of the 4 teams GB beat last season? That says a lot right there.

GO PACK!!!

Robert C. Hedley

I never said that Favre should retire. I said that he should make up his mind and then shut up about it. That is pretty much how fans all over the country feel about him to tell you the truth.

I'm sure Brett cares

 

[Popcorn]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Favre is doing nothing to help that Franchise, he is delaying Aaron's development, you can learn only so much sitting, he needs starting expirence to achieve his apex. Favre is there for another play-off season and thats nothing but being greedy, he is already a HOFer. Let Rodgers take over, it will be better for all.

I have to disagree with you. First of all, A-Rod is 21, and doesn't even have 4 full years at the NCAA level.

Why the hell did you draft him so early? Also what do you think is going on when the Franchise is reluctant to start you so they bring back, by adding a corner, their 'star' QB who had a bottom 3 season last year. More accuratly, what do you think he thinks? It may sound silly to you but you arent 21, having not started a full College season and being looked at as the savior.

He needs to spend time learning and adapting to the NFL speed and all the little things, which he will be better of doing in practice for at least a couple of years.

Favre only waited 1 year after being 21 to start. Rodgers can only learn so much from Favre, if he is teaching him anything at all. Even if he only starts a few games it will be better for him. Lets face it: You guys are in for a rocky season when Aaron takes over if you dont ween him in and then you are likley to have a poor year.


As you say he needs starting experience, if we throw him into the fire already and he will likely get killed, his confidence will take a HUGE hit. It will be another matter all together to get his confidence back up.

Favre started in similar conditions and getting put in early only destroys the confidence in the mentally weak.

Finally, Brett is still Brett. He is still the best QB in at least the NFC North.

Who does he have to compete with him for that title?

He is able to release the ball quicker than anyone else, he is able to throw the ball with almost as much power as he has ever done,

but where to? Winfield?

and the new workouts he started doing a few years back have really kept his back and pelvic area strong, something which can't be bad in the NFL.

Oh geeze, thanks.


Brett is why the Packers had a chance in the games last season. You can't deny the fact that he threw for 3800+ yards, 3rd best in the NFL with only one credited WR.

Not here but doesnt it seem odd that allofa sudden the "Favre creats Pro-Bowl WRs!!!" talk is gone.

No one else in the NFC could have done the same. Is he the same Favre of 96/97? No. But to suggest he is washed up is not fair given all that he continues to do.

Favre continues to be the stubborn fool he has always been, in 96/97 he could get out of it with his supporting cast and talent, now he is 37ish. I could name at least 5 QBs in the league today that could have done a better job then Brett least season.

Wow, popcorn....not trying to get into a fight with you here but that's the most ignorant post ever. Serious.

By the way, are you a friend of Brett? Do you know his agent? How do you know that's why Brett came back and even if it was, how the hell is that greedy?

I think I'll forget you made that stupid post because I had a great deal of respect for your insight up to this point. You seemed like a level-headed Vikings fan, which almost seems like an oxymoron.

Oh please, I know its terribly hard but its called your 'brain', use it not to attack me but make a POINT if you do.

People starting today who had 2> years to get ready:

Donovan McNabb
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Jake Plummer
...
.
Phillip Rivers is being groomed correctly, not Rodgers.

I'm sorry Popcorn but this is the most idiotic post ever. So Favre should retire so A-Rod can take over? Does that mean A-Rod should retire so Ingle Martin can take over as well? Is A-Rod holding Martin back? Is Brad Johnson holding Mike McMahon back?

:roll: Yeah great point, slight problem: Aaron is 21, Brett is 37 and McMahon is not being groomed to start, and you accuse me of posting something ignorant.

anting to take your team to the Playoffs instead of struggling with virtual rookie is being selfish?

The Pack will not make the playoffs, they need to get Aaron's Trail of Fire done so that when they do have a shot they have a QB at the helm. Do you expect to make the playoffs this year?

Brett's still a top ten QB, without a doubt. You are basing your opinion on last season solely because you WANT Brett to be done. If this is the case how can Culpepper be 5. What did he do last year? What about McNabb?

Culpepper can be 5 since he RECENTLY had one of the best seasons ever at the QB position. McNabb can be there because he did very well with the cast he had last season. McNabb > Favre (Now)

and yes, in the short term Rodgers starting for the Packers will be better for us.

 

[digsthepack]

Re: Popcorns Top 15 RBs and QBs

Popcorn, McNabb is overrated because, while he has a bunch of talent and can hurt you with both his feet and his arm, he clearly lacks leadership skills...as was displayed in the lead-up, during and following the TO incident. To me, leadership...the ability to earn the trust of your team and coaches, is the most important thing a QB can possess. The guy is almost BEGGING his teammates to believe in him and follow him in the PRESS. Saying **** that should not need to be said at this "lofty" point in his career.

But that is not all...his arm is nice but nothing exceptional, and the offense around him has never really been an impressive scheme.

Manning has more pure talent than any of the QBs mentioned, but he has been, and continues to be, a choker at the big moment....just like Culpepper. And this is coming from a guy who, after the Badgers, is a big Vols fan.