All Capers Threads merged

[AmishMafia]

Have no problem with people saying Capers needs to go, but you need to be consistent. If capers needs to go, then TT needs to be considered as well. He's the guy that's supposed to provide players and he hasn't done so for the defense. Can't blame Capers but give TT a free pass, that's not consistent.

Well, under that logic - and with your push to be consistent - then :

If we need to get rid of our safeties, we need to consider getting rid of Clay Matthews as well. Why should Matthews get a free pass?

If we get rid of Newhouse, we need to consider getting rid of Rodgers as well. Why should Rodgers get a free pass?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well, under that logic - and with your push to be consistent - then :

If we need to get rid of our safeties, we need to consider getting rid of Clay Matthews as well. Why should Matthews get a free pass?

If we get rid of Newhouse, we need to consider getting rid of Rodgers as well. Why should Rodgers get a free pass?

That makes no sense. CM3 isn't in charge of getting personnel for the team. What role does Newhouse have in getting healthy quarterbacks on the team?

 

[Carl]

All I've ever heard from fans who want Capers fired is basically, "the defense is bad, therefore Capers should be fired or the defense had a bad game and that's obviously Capers' fault."

I've never heard heard anyone give other evidence like a bad play call. He runs almost the same scheme as one of the best ever in **** LeBeau so scheme is not the issue.

Looking at recent games, all three touchdowns against the Eagles were on the players. Yesterday, Capers stacked the box and the Vikings still ran very well. Should he have put 11 in the box and not covered the wide receivers?

Plus, maybe other defensive coaches aren't doing their jobs correctly. I'm not saying Capers should or shouldn't be fired, I'm just asking someone to give more evidence rather than just say the defense bad so it's his fault.

 

[PFanCan]

Have no problem with people saying Capers needs to go, but you need to be consistent. If capers needs to go, then TT needs to be considered as well. He's the guy that's supposed to provide players and he hasn't done so for the defense. Can't blame Capers but give TT a free pass, that's not consistent.

One could make the argument that TT's supply of talent is just fine, but that Caper's scheme isn't working.

 

[bear7625]

I admit, I wanted to jump on the fire Capers bandwagon a couple weeks ago. Now I'm not sure it's all his fault. I still think the problem is accountability. Start at the top with TT/MM, all coaches and players on both sides of the ball and start making people accountable for their paychecks!

 

[maxlives]

My opinion of Caper's job security is immaterial; the fact is the defensive players cannot execute. They cannot shed blockers, have poor position discipline, have trouble figuring out who covers who, and are poor tacklers. These are fundamentals that point directly at the coaching staff. Occasionally the D will perform well, but they are not doing it consistently and that does not equate to championship football. One thing that has always bothered me about Dom; I HATE when coordinators sit in the booth. Takes them out of the game and they lose touch with all but one of the players. Just a personal pet peeve, probably not a firing offense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

One could make the argument that TT's supply of talent is just fine, but that Caper's scheme isn't working.

No you couldn't. The only recent talent that TT has supplied has been through the draft and most of those guys have been injured more often than not (see Perry, Worthy, Jones, Hayward).

 

[AmishMafia]

That makes no sense. CM3 isn't in charge of getting personnel for the team. What role does Newhouse have in getting healthy quarterbacks on the team?

the safeties job is easier if there is a better pass rush. It is CM3s job to apply the pass rush. If the safeties are having trouble then a part of the problem is CM3. Why give him a free pass?

Of course it makes no sense. It also makes no sense to blame TT for defensive woes. The talent is underperforming under Capers.

 

[longtimefan]

No you couldn't. The only recent talent that TT has supplied has been through the draft and most of those guys have been injured more often than not (see Perry, Worthy, Jones, Hayward).

So then injuries play a part in the def issues?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So then injuries play a part in the def issues?

TT emphasized defense in last year's draft big time and didn't bring anyone in through free agency. Thompson chose six defensive players with his first six draft picks last year. One of those players has had a positive impact this season, one of them is no longer on the team, one of them is a poor defensive starter and three have missed more games than they've played this year. I just don't get how Capers is expected to improve on last year's defense when the guys he was expected to count on are injured, yet the guy that provided those injured players is given a pass. Either both are held accountable or neither is (I think it's somewhere in betwee).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

the safeties job is easier if there is a better pass rush. It is CM3s job to apply the pass rush. If the safeties are having trouble then a part of the problem is CM3. Why give him a free pass?

Of course it makes no sense. It also makes no sense to blame TT for defensive woes. The talent is underperforming under Capers.

That's not addressing my point. Capers job is easier if TT gives him players that are on the field. Your analogy would be accurate if you said that it was the safeties job to keep CM3 on the field, therefore the Burnett should be held responsible when CM3 misses games.

You say the talent is underperforming for Capers yet TT took 6 straight defensive players in last year's draft, of which only one is making a positive impact on this team. In the 2011 draft, Thompson took four defensive players, of which only one is even on the team any longer. We all know that TT doesn't use free agency. So, given that over the last THREE YEARS Capers has been given THREE players to improve the defense this year (I'm including Jones even though he's actually been injured too), how is he underperforming? Yes, there are three other players from last year's draft that could probably help the defense but those guys are hurt. My point is that people are giving TT a pass but not Capers.

 

[longtimefan]

TT emphasized defense in last year's draft big time and didn't bring anyone in through free agency. Thompson chose six defensive players with his first six draft picks last year. One of those players has had a positive impact this season, one of them is no longer on the team, one of them is a poor defensive starter and three have missed more games than they've played this year. I just don't get how Capers is expected to improve on last year's defense when the guys he was expected to count on are injured, yet the guy that provided those injured players is given a pass. Either both are held accountable or neither is (I think it's somewhere in betwee).

So injury play a part or no?

 

[profile_removed]

Here's why I AM on the Fire Capers train. Exhibit A: The takeaway stat that Fox showed yesterday. Dom has to know of more than one way to create turnovers, other things he can do to put the players in the best position to do so. Exhibit B: Going into yesterday's game Clay Matthews who is in a down year, AND missed a month is #3 on the team in tackles. These two things really bother me about how this D is being run, as well as the performance of the players. Yes Capers has to go.

 

[longtimefan]

Take aways

How many int hit their hands and they drop them.... That isnt on Dom

 

[profile_removed]

It is if Dom isn't working on INT or tip drills in practice!

 

[longtimefan]

It is if Dom isn't working on INT or tip drills in practice!

Lol

 

[AmishMafia]

Take aways

How many int hit their hands and they drop them.... That isnt on Dom

I would disagree. Ultimately he is responsible. They must be spending less time on tip drills and more time on 'how to injure your hammy'. If you see your team down in a specific category, it could be that TT drafts DBs with stone hands, but my money would be on that the DBs are not practicing it enough.

- edit - what in the hell beat me to it -----------

As far as complaints that the defense does not have talent, taken position by position, I see a team that has no weak spots except at safety #2. The rest of the defense has average or above average players. The DL has good depth and the CBs have some impressive youngsters. I do believe the biggest weakness is the coaching. I don't think these guys are prepared (poor tackling/communication errors/out of position) and they are out coached on a weekly basis. Not a scheme issue - but a game planning issue.

 

[longtimefan]

I would like to see new coach in there...I really do..

But things I do see are guys in the spot to make a play and dont make it..

The keystone cop TD vs Philly...Tramon and the other back (forgot who it is now) They were in position, but failed to make a play

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

I would like to see new coach in there...I really do..

But things I do see are guys in the spot to make a play and dont make it..

The keystone cop TD vs Philly...Tramon and the other back (forgot who it is now) They were in position, but failed to make a play

Apart from the Tramon Williams hating (just an observation, not a go at you personally), I totally agree with your comments. I think its unfair to blame Tramon Williams all the time for screw ups. Its a team game and they aren`t playing as a team full stop.

 

[AmishMafia]

AmishMafia... You're too stupid to insult.

Please stop commenting. Those poor people that have to listen, I mean, hear you every day. I'll say a little prayer for them.

Wow, thanks for the input. Way to refute my opinions with such insight supported by such a persuasive argument. Certainly only an extremely intelligent human could have conceived a concept and articulated it so well. I do stand in awe of your giant brain and I do now feel so inferior as a poster.

A cup of coffee to you sir.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Wow, thanks for the input. Way to refute my opinions with such insight supported by such a persuasive argument. Certainly only an extremely intelligent human could have conceived a concept and articulated it so well. I do stand in awe of your giant brain and I do now feel so inferior as a poster.

A cup of coffee to you sir.

Game, set and match

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would disagree. Ultimately he is responsible. They must be spending less time on tip drills and more time on 'how to injure your hammy'. If you see your team down in a specific category, it could be that TT drafts DBs with stone hands, but my money would be on that the DBs are not practicing it enough.

- edit - what in the hell beat me to it -----------

As far as complaints that the defense does not have talent, taken position by position, I see a team that has no weak spots except at safety #2. The rest of the defense has average or above average players. The DL has good depth and the CBs have some impressive youngsters. I do believe the biggest weakness is the coaching. I don't think these guys are prepared (poor tackling/communication errors/out of position) and they are out coached on a weekly basis. Not a scheme issue - but a game planning issue.

Our dline has one good player in Daniels and then a bunch of guys, nothing special. Our linebackers consist of CM3 and a bunch of guys. What core players are you seeing other than those two? Maybe Jones but it's too early to tell for sure.

 

[AmishMafia]

Our dline has one good player in Daniels and then a bunch of guys, nothing special. Our linebackers consist of CM3 and a bunch of guys. What core players are you seeing other than those two? Maybe Jones but it's too early to tell for sure.

I don't know if I consider Daniels a 'core' player. I think Shields is. But really, other than safety, I see the entire defense as being at least average. I think of Shields, Daniels, Jolly and Jones as above average - CM3 is elite, of course. Hawk has been playing well - but I saw some goofy play against the Vikings. The rest are at least average. Average means that they could start for about 16 NFL teams.

I think we have some young guys who are developing into well above average - Datone, Hayward, and maybe one or two more.

 

[profile_removed]

Hawk is finally starting to get it, it would appear. Beyond that I agree with Sunshinepacker.

 

[Defense92]

Well, under that logic - and with your push to be consistent - then :

Why should Matthews get a free pass?

Because he is one of the few on defense who acts like he wants to be out there.