2023 Salary cap riddle

[Deleted member 6794]

I’m expecting this to be a rough year, 6-11, something like that. That’s fine, especially if Love works out. It’s not gonna be a rebuild. There’s too much talent for that. Gluten does need to rock it w this draft.

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I don't believe the Packers have enough talent to be competitive without an elite quarterback.

I can only speak for me - I’m glad Rodgers is gone. Great player and made the Packers very watchable. He just caused more grief than he was worth at the end.

Rodgers made the Packers a legit contender every single season. It's true that him struggling was part of the reason for the team falling short of expectations last year. But he only caused more grief than he was worth in the end for fans who allowed it by being impacted by the narrative created by the click bait media.

The organization doesn't see it that way I assure you. I bet they believe they have a decent shot to win the division

I'm certain they will be proven wrong this year.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm certain they will be proven wrong this year.

How certain? Like when you were certain Adams wasn’t getting traded or that Lamar wasn’t a top QB in the league and wouldn’t be paid like it?

lol had to man, I don’t disagree here though, unless Love is absolutely everything it is gonna be a struggle of ups and downs this season.

 

[PikeBadger]

How certain? Like when you were certain Adams wasn’t getting traded or that Lamar wasn’t a top QB in the league and wouldn’t be paid like it?

lol had to man, I don’t disagree here though, unless Love is absolutely everything it is gonna be a struggle of ups and downs this season.

It's up to LaFleur to keep Love in situations where he can succeed. The onus is on him and his staff. There is plenty of talent on this roster with a half dozen really good core players. We will need to be patient with expectations for Gary I believe, but it's the coaches that need to advance that 3rd offensive core player. The NFC North doesn't look so formidable to me that we can't compete for another division title this year. I'm excited for LaFleur to now really showcase his offense with Love at the helm.

 

[tynimiller]

It's up to LaFleur to keep Love in situations where he can succeed. The onus is on him and his staff. There is plenty of talent on this roster with a half dozen really good core players. We will need to be patient with expectations for Gary I believe, but it's the coaches that need to advance that 3rd offensive core player. The NFC North doesn't look so formidable to me that we can't compete for another division title this year. I'm excited for LaFleur to now really showcase his offense with Love at the helm.

Trust me I am not the "we are going to be drafting top 10" for sure mindset - I know it is possible, but I truly believe MLF can run his offensive structure well enough to compete, and this defense has the skills for sure - just need Barry to wake up and adjust and proactively put forth a gameplan that fits this team best not the one that he is most used to.

I could easily see a 9 or 10 win team win the North...and that is a LOW win total, which means it is anyone's for the taking.

 

[Heyjoe4]

How certain? Like when you were certain Adams wasn’t getting traded or that Lamar wasn’t a top QB in the league and wouldn’t be paid like it?

lol had to man, I don’t disagree here though, unless Love is absolutely everything it is gonna be a struggle of ups and downs this season.

Yeah I mean none of us knows for sure how Love will play. I'm glad GB stuck with Rodgers after his 6-10 start. We all want Love to succeed.

Personally, I felt worse about the Packers when Favre was traded and Rodgers took over. I lived near San Francisco at the time and watched Rodgers play when he was at Cal. He held the ball up high right next to his ear. He had success at Cal but I was sure he'd fail in the NFL. So much for my scouting abilities......

I'm actually excited for this Packers' season, and it's been a couple of years since I felt that way. It's a very young team at a lot of skill positions. Expectations are low, I think. I'm guessing a 6-11 year and so anything else is great.

I do expect to see promising play from Love though. I don't recall how Rodgers was looked at after his first season. And to be fair, it's gonna take two years to really know Love's skill at QB, and to give all these new guys time to work as a team. It's boring, but the play and consistency of the OL will determine a lot of games.

 

[tynimiller]

Love and GB are doing an extension not a fifth year......I gotta wonder if this allows them in essence since not rookie deal any longer to do void years forward....this year is still a tryout year, but spreads hit even more so and if Love pans out we still sign him to an extension...if he doesn't big deal we swallow his one year hit and would have a rookie deal QB anyways most likely.

 

[PikeBadger]

Yeah I mean none of us knows for sure how Love will play. I'm glad GB stuck with Rodgers after his 6-10 start. We all want Love to succeed.

Personally, I felt worse about the Packers when Favre was traded and Rodgers took over. I lived near San Francisco at the time and watched Rodgers play when he was at Cal. He held the ball up high right next to his ear. He had success at Cal but I was sure he'd fail in the NFL. So much for my scouting abilities......

I'm actually excited for this Packers' season, and it's been a couple of years since I felt that way. It's a very young team at a lot of skill positions. Expectations are low, I think. I'm guessing a 6-11 year and so anything else is great.

I do expect to see promising play from Love though. I don't recall how Rodgers was looked at after his first season. And to be fair, it's gonna take two years to really know Love's skill at QB, and to give all these new guys time to work as a team. It's boring, but the play and consistency of the OL will determine a lot of games.

I expect much better overall production from the OL with Bakhtiari and Jenkins both further removed from their rehab. The other three are all young and with line stability, I think it's safe to expect all 3 to improve incrementally.
LaFleur and Gutekunst both said that offensive line was going to be very difficult for any rookie to make this roster. This speaks well for the young backups currently on the roster as well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Love and GB are doing an extension not a fifth year......I gotta wonder if this allows them in essence since not rookie deal any longer to do void years forward....this year is still a tryout year, but spreads hit even more so and if Love pans out we still sign him to an extension...if he doesn't big deal we swallow his one year hit and would have a rookie deal QB anyways most likely.

Interesting point. So if they exercised his 5th year option at $20 mil that all hits the cap. A one year extension can be spread over more years. Interesting.

I expect much better overall production from the OL with Bakhtiari and Jenkins both further removed from their rehab. The other three are all young and with line stability, I think it's safe to expect all 3 to improve incrementally.
LaFleur and Gutekunst both said that offensive line was going to be very difficult for any rookie to make this roster. This speaks well for the young backups currently on the roster as well.

Yeah I think that's a fair expectation. Bakh was a wild card last year, but he and Jenkins should be available, and the three younger players need to step up and I think they will. The key is their collective health so the OL has some consistency.

 

[tynimiller]

Interesting point. So if they exercised his 5th year option at $20 mil that all hits the cap. A one year extension can be spread over more years. Interesting.

Yeah I think that's a fair expectation. Bakh was a wild card last year, but he and Jenkins should be available, and the three younger players need to step up and I think they will. The key is their collective health so the OL has some consistency.

I believe but only depending on structure.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I believe but only depending on structure.

I wonder if Bakh could be trade bait mid-season. Of course it depends on how the Packers fare, but they might be sellers. Not sure how much Bakh would be worth to a contending team. It will depend on how completely he has recovered from his knee problems. Either way, I don't see Bakh in GB for more than one, maybe two years. He might make an intriguing rental to a contender in need of T help.....

 

[Pkrjones]

I wonder if Bakh could be trade bait mid-season. Of course it depends on how the Packers fare, but they might be sellers. Not sure how much Bakh would be worth to a contending team. It will depend on how completely he has recovered from his knee problems. Either way, I don't see Bakh in GB for more than one, maybe two years. He might make an intriguing rental to a contender in need of T help.....

There's no benefit for GB to trade Bahktiari in '23 unless some team offers multiple 1st rounders + low priced high-end talent. His base salary is only $1.165mil while GB's cap gets clobbered with $38mil dead cap which I doubt Gute can even make work.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How certain? Like when you were certain Adams wasn’t getting traded or that Lamar wasn’t a top QB in the league and wouldn’t be paid like it?

lol had to man, I don’t disagree here though, unless Love is absolutely everything it is gonna be a struggle of ups and downs this season.

Well, let me tell you that I truly hope I'm wrong about the Packers not being able to compete for the division title as well. Realistically I don't expect them to get anywhere near winning the NFC North in 2023 though.

Either way, I don't see Bakh in GB for more than one, maybe two years.

Taking a look at the way Bakhtiari's contract is currently structured it's probable he will only play for the Packers for another season.

There's no benefit for GB to trade Bahktiari in '23 unless some team offers multiple 1st rounders + low priced high-end talent. His base salary is only $1.165mil while GB's cap gets clobbered with $38mil dead cap which I doubt Gute can even make work.

If the Packers trade Bakhtiari after June 1 they won't take an additional cap hit for the 2023 season though. The move would result in $19 million of dead money counting against their cap in 2024 but that's to be expected anyway.

 

[AmishMafia]

What's the difference between vegetable headgear and a financial construct for supporting NFL parity?

One is a salary cap and one is a celery cap.


EDIT: I think I misunderstood the thread title.

 

[AmishMafia]

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I don't believe the Packers have enough talent to be competitive without an elite quarterback.

Are you under the impression that repeating your opinion makes it true?

Rodgers made the Packers a legit contender every single season. It's true that him struggling was part of the reason for the team falling short of expectations last year. But he only caused more grief than he was worth in the end for fans who allowed it by being impacted by the narrative created by the click bait media.

2017 and 2018 we had a losing record with Rodgers starting.

 

[DoURant]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum, maybe I'm missing something. If not, Darnell Savage's contract was restructured yesterday, which in turn created $5.5M in cap space, helping with the Love extension. Found this article on PackersWire

Packers restructure contract of S Darnell Savage, create $5.5 million of cap space

The Packers created rougly $5.5 million in 2023 cap space by restructuring the contract of safety Darnell Savage.

packerswire.usatoday.com

 

[Heyjoe4]

There's no benefit for GB to trade Bahktiari in '23 unless some team offers multiple 1st rounders + low priced high-end talent. His base salary is only $1.165mil while GB's cap gets clobbered with $38mil dead cap which I doubt Gute can even make work.

Thanks Pk. I knew there had to be something making it unworkable. Oh well. Just another big contract gone bad. Although at the time the contract was finalized, Bakh was arguably the best LT in the NFL without much of an injury history. Just unfortunate timing. I do hope he's able to play this year. Love will need a solid OL.

 

[PikeBadger]

I wonder if Bakh could be trade bait mid-season. Of course it depends on how the Packers fare, but they might be sellers. Not sure how much Bakh would be worth to a contending team. It will depend on how completely he has recovered from his knee problems. Either way, I don't see Bakh in GB for more than one, maybe two years. He might make an intriguing rental to a contender in need of T help.....

There will be teams whose o-line will be bludgeoned by injuries. Happens every year. Those teams are usually out of the hunt by mid-season if that happens though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum, maybe I'm missing something. If not, Darnell Savage's contract was restructured yesterday, which in turn created $5.5M in cap space, helping with the Love extension. Found this article on PackersWire

Packers restructure contract of S Darnell Savage, create $5.5 million of cap space

The Packers created rougly $5.5 million in 2023 cap space by restructuring the contract of safety Darnell Savage.

packerswire.usatoday.com

Yeah I'm starting to think the Packers' MVP all along has been Russ Ball. The Savage restructure and the creative extension of Love's contract were very team friendly. Worst case, Love plays well and gets an extra $2.5 mil. I'll take that. It's a rounding error on Rodgers' last contract.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in this forum, maybe I'm missing something. If not, Darnell Savage's contract was restructured yesterday, which in turn created $5.5M in cap space, helping with the Love extension. Found this article on PackersWire

Yup and the important thing:

"Restructuring Savage’s deal created the cap savings necessary to extend the contract of quarterback Jordan Love, who got an extra year added to his deal on Tuesday."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah I'm starting to think the Packers' MVP all along has been Russ Ball.

I like Russ too, but....his creativity with contracts could also be viewed as enabling the Packers to do things they may have been better off not doing. That said, it isn't Russ's job to decide what to do with the money created, he just is good at "manufacturing it".

 

[Heyjoe4]

I like Russ too, but....his creativity with contracts could also be viewed as enabling the Packers to do things they may have been better off not doing. That said, it isn't Russ's job to decide what to do with the money created, he just is good at "manufacturing it".

That's a fair point. And pushing liability out to the future isn't really managing an entity's finances well, it's just delaying the inevitable.

I'd prefer a cap system that more closely matches a player's pay with the timing of their play. Only in football and other sports is this seen. Large companies take immediate hits when they whack people.

 

[Pkrjones]

Yeah I'm starting to think the Packers' MVP all along has been Russ Ball. The Savage restructure and the creative extension of Love's contract were very team friendly.

The way Savage's deal was restructured was to add 4 void years & making his base salary at $1.08Mil & the remaining $6.82Mil a bonus spread over 5 years ($1.364mil/yr). This may make him much more trade-able (post 6/01) with his new team absorbing $5.456Mil as '24 dead cap (if I'm interpreting OTC's breakdown correctly).

GB has gotten an additional $5.456Mil cap relief in '23 regardless if he stays or is traded after 6/01.

 

[milani]

I expect much better overall production from the OL with Bakhtiari and Jenkins both further removed from their rehab. The other three are all young and with line stability, I think it's safe to expect all 3 to improve incrementally.
LaFleur and Gutekunst both said that offensive line was going to be very difficult for any rookie to make this roster. This speaks well for the young backups currently on the roster as well.

Except by injury.

 

[OldSchool101]

As I have mentioned repeatedly, I don't believe the Packers have enough talent to be competitive without an elite quarterback.

That’s just not true. If the Packers Defense all by its lonesome can reach their ceiling (or very near) By themselves they could be a Top5 Defense in that 18-19 points ballpark.
You don’t need an elite level QB to Win lots of games (call it Top3-4)
IF your Defense is holding opponents regularly.
You need a ST unit that gives you above average Field position and gives their opponents worse than average position.
You need an Offense that is consistent and dual faceted in Run n Pass and that does turn the ball over at an alarming rate.

 

[milani]

That’s just not true. If the Packers Defense all by its lonesome can reach their ceiling (or very near) By themselves they could be a Top5 Defense in that 18-19 points ballpark.
You don’t need an elite level QB to Win lots of games (call it Top3-4)
IF your Defense is holding opponents regularly.
You need a ST unit that gives you above average Field position and gives their opponents worse than average position.
You need an Offense that is consistent and dual faceted in Run n Pass and that does turn the ball over at an alarming rate.

It is harder to win a SB without an elite QB. But it has been done. And yes, you can be competitive without an elite QB if you have defense and a running game. Ask the great Kent Dilfer or even the dynamic Rex Grossman. Lombardi rode through 1967 with a banged up Bart Starr and a decimated backfield because of defense.