2017 Draft/FA Needs - Ranked

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GreenBaySlacker

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I"m not advocating, I said we probably would, and the reason is he should be relatively in expensive. He has disappointed, only because he has shown he's capable of a lot more than he's producing, but overall, there are guys all over this league just like him. Good Rosters and poor ones, have guys like Datone. He's not their cornerstones, he's a rotation guy. if he's paid like one, I won't care if he's here or not, because the odds are overwhelmingly high, that his replacement will probably be just like him or worse somewhere on this roster because no team is going to be starter quality at every position on the depth chart.
AND!!!! He just this year became a OLB. He will find his groove and impress IMO... And all the haters will be eating crow. A rotational journeyman yes. But he does have the potential to break out... Not every journeyman player has that ability. just stability.
 

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Sounds like the same argument made when talking about Bahk last year........

My opinion of Bahk (and Perry) last year parallels my opinion of datone now. Both were under sized project players(perry a DE turned OLB)... All took 4 years to find their spot... You cant develop a player for 4 years, and give up as soon as all the hard work is done...

Last year I was optimistic that Perry would be a stud. His injuries seem to be less and less. And he was really effective when out there. I seen the defense as a whole, play much better with him out there... Had we offered him a 4 year 6 mil deal last year, instead of a 1 year prove it deal... He would be on the roster the next 3 years for 6 instead of the 10 he will surely get this year with a long term deal...

Datone hasn't shown the potential that Bahk and Perry shown. But he has shown flashes. And at a journeyman salary, he would be a solid cog in the machine.

Bak always showed big potential, and backed it up with solid- and always improving play. Perry dissapears for long stretches, and needs help to take focus off of him. Neither have anything to do with the waste of a #1 pick, roster and cap space known as Datone Jones.
You can have him.
 

PackerDNA

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Why do you act like 3-4 mil for a OLB is a lot? Its not.....

And what are you going to say when Datone goes somewhere else, and breaks out? nothing?

We need OLBs. We need a monster to help replace Peppers... 3-4 mil is what it costs for anyone other than a rookie. Deal with it.

And whats your opinion of Mathews 15mil he makes next year?

Let him go! If he 'breaks out' somewhere else, good for him and then. We've seen enough that any amount is wasted on this guy. My opinion of Matthews is he already has been overpaid, and will continue to be even more overpaid as he continues to age and decline. We've reached the point of diminishing returns with him; it won't suddenly get better.
 

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I"m not advocating, I said we probably would, and the reason is he should be relatively in expensive. He has disappointed, only because he has shown he's capable of a lot more than he's producing, but overall, there are guys all over this league just like him. Good Rosters and poor ones, have guys like Datone. He's not their cornerstones, he's a rotation guy. if he's paid like one, I won't care if he's here or not, because the odds are overwhelmingly high, that his replacement will probably be just like him or worse somewhere on this roster because no team is going to be starter quality at every position on the depth chart.

Wasn't directed at you, Mondio.
But while we're here....
Of course you can't have all-pros at every position. That's no reason to not try to get better, or to year after year continue on with the likes of Jones, Barclay, Elliott, etc.
 

sdh09e44

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Only bring back Datone on another 1 year prove it deal.

It can go either way with giving him a 3-4 year deal so he is "comfortable" and has time to prove it. That could lead to complacency and money down the drain just as much as it can lead to him settling into a role.

If he breaks out and we have to pay him more, so be it. Cause if he breaks out at OLB that means we have a great chance at having a super bowl defense next year
 

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He's had 4 years to prove it. The lack of production- and lack of discipline- tells me it's time to move on.
 

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Wasn't directed at you, Mondio.
But while we're here....
Of course you can't have all-pros at every position. That's no reason to not try to get better, or to year after year continue on with the likes of Jones, Barclay, Elliott, etc.
you definitely try to get better. Elliot has regressed a lot since flashing some stuff early. he never even sees the field anymore. Barclay, man I hate even saying the B word :) But I do think Jones is at least adequate, with room for more on occasion. if he wants a lot, he walks. But i don't think he's going to get crazy money anywhere. You sign him, because he can be a clear rotation guy and hold up. I don't think he's the type of player, that if you sign him, you pass up a pass rusher you think is going to be good, to take another position because you already have Datone on the roster.

he's not going to dictate any moves this offseason by staying. They're going to target who they target regardless of his roster status. And once all the guys are signed and they all beat him out, you show him the door. If he earns a spot, he earns it as a rotation guy.
 
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I wouldn't say that... He earned a 1st round pick. He has shown flashes of ability in a limited role...

I would also point out that 3-4 mil for a 2nd contract is a journeyman OLB minimum wage...

Teams handling business that way find themselves in troubles with the salary cap pretty fast. It's possible Datone breaks out in the next four years but highly unlikely as he has struggled to make an impact for most of his four seasons with the Packers.

I'm fine with re-signing him to a reasonable dealbut not with paying him more than $3 million a season.
 

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Bak always showed big potential, and backed it up with solid- and always improving play. Perry dissapears for long stretches, and needs help to take focus off of him. Neither have anything to do with the waste of a #1 pick, roster and cap space known as Datone Jones.
You can have him.
I knew I would be in the minority on thinking Jones is a good long term (low dollar) FA.

Maybe Im wrong on his value? He might be worth a lot more to a 4-3 team. Or a 3-4 team that actually plays a 3-4. :)
 
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I knew I would be in the minority on thinking Jones is a good long term (low dollar) FA.

Maybe Im wrong on his value? He might be worth a lot more to a 4-3 team. Or a 3-4 team that actually plays a 3-4. :)

With offenses lining up with at least three wide receivers on more than 75% of the plays most teams hardly play their base defenses anymore.
 

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With offenses lining up with at least three wide receivers on more than 75% of the plays most teams hardly play their base defenses anymore.
I remember back in the olden days when offenses couldn't send 4 guys out 75% of the time, because reggie ,Santana, Gilbert, and Sean would break their QB...
 

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While that´s true it´s rare a player breaks out during his fifth season after being mediocre at best earlier in his career.

Yeah, the exceptions don't change the rule. I will say that if there is an argument to be made for keeping Jones on a cheap contract (maybe a 1 year deal), it's that he's only had one offseason and season as an OLB/DE. So I guess they might want to see what some continuity at that position can do. However, I'm certainly not holding my breath. If they keep him, it had better be cheap and easy to get out of and they had better also address the position on top of that.
 

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While that´s true it´s rare a player breaks out during his fifth season after being mediocre at best earlier in his career.
I remember saying about 1000 times that Datone was too small to be a DE in our scheme... We didn't use him to his strengths the first 3 years IMO. Last year he was a rookie at OLB. I think if we used him like Aldon Smith was used. At OLB with 3 dominant Dlinemen in front. Coming in fresh on passing downs...He would have got the pressure early on.

I know we differ on what a defensive lineman is supposed to be. I value the Dline as a foundation. You and our DC Capers seem to prefer speed, and believe the rush comes from OLBs and a strong secondary being able to neutralize a strong pass attack... Datone was a 6'4" 285 pound Dlineman that played all over the line in school, producing anywhere he was put. Seems like you got exactly what you wanted, and it didn't work... Speedy under sized DE. A NT that's 320 instead of 360. bunch of good OLBs who are basicly under sized DEs in a 4-3 (except Peppers)..... Daniels has been our savior! And Guion too. Daniels 6' 310, and Guion 6'4" 322 happen to be the only two guys that would make the cut if I was building a Dline... Remember me saying 300-320 DEs, and a dominant 350#NT that forces the double team, and still wins. Have 3 Dlinemen out there at all times. And have 3 similar types to rotate to keep them fresh...

Its like this. With Daniels, and Guion at DE. Clark and similar rotating. Although it should be noted that Clark is a project player, and wont be what Im looking for until he gets up to speed... But Then throw a center piece NT in there like say Poe from KC. Or even old man Wilfork, as a temp bandaid. And we need another monster rookie or something to rotate him out a lot to keep him fresh.......... We do this, and actually play 3 Dlinemen of this caliber, the OLBs will be running free. With 2 great OLBs, between the 5 of them, one will break through nearly every play. You cant block that many great big men with 5 Olinemen and a RB , consistently...
Even with one less man in the secondary. Our guys can do their job, IF there is a good pass rush... Most young QBs crumble under the pressure , and the veterans who cant run like Arod, will crumble under our destructive Dline.

Ted needs to get some good big guys, and Capers needs to use them. And this 3-4 could be dominant.
 
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I remember saying about 1000 times that Datone was too small to be a DE in our scheme... We didn't use him to his strengths the first 3 years IMO. Last year he was a rookie at OLB. I think if we used him like Aldon Smith was used. At OLB with 3 dominant Dlinemen in front. Coming in fresh on passing downs...He would have got the pressure early on.

I know we differ on what a defensive lineman is supposed to be. I value the Dline as a foundation. You and our DC Capers seem to prefer speed, and believe the rush comes from OLBs and a strong secondary being able to neutralize a strong pass attack... Datone was a 6'4" 285 pound Dlineman that played all over the line in school, producing anywhere he was put. Seems like you got exactly what you wanted, and it didn't work... Speedy under sized DE. A NT that's 320 instead of 360. bunch of good OLBs who are basicly under sized DEs in a 4-3 (except Peppers)..... Daniels has been our savior! And Guion too. Daniels 6' 310, and Guion 6'4" 322 happen to be the only two guys that would make the cut if I was building a Dline... Remember me saying 300-320 DEs, and a dominant 350#NT that forces the double team, and still wins. Have 3 Dlinemen out there at all times. And have 3 similar types to rotate to keep them fresh...

Its like this. With Daniels, and Guion at DE. Clark and similar rotating. Although it should be noted that Clark is a project player, and wont be what Im looking for until he gets up to speed... But Then throw a center piece NT in there like say Poe from KC. Or even old man Wilfork, as a temp bandaid. And we need another monster rookie or something to rotate him out a lot to keep him fresh.......... We do this, and actually play 3 Dlinemen of this caliber, the OLBs will be running free. With 2 great OLBs, between the 5 of them, one will break through nearly every play. You cant block that many great big men with 5 Olinemen and a RB , consistently...
Even with one less man in the secondary. Our guys can do their job, IF there is a good pass rush... Most young QBs crumble under the pressure , and the veterans who cant run like Arod, will crumble under our destructive Dline.

Ted needs to get some good big guys, and Capers needs to use them. And this 3-4 could be dominant.

I have never advocated for the Packers to sign defensive linemen with a specific built but mentioned that teams are able to put an impact line on the field with smaller players as well as long as they´re talented.

I wouldn´t mind Thompson adding another guy at the position as the unit currently lacks impact players aside of Daniels. There´s some hope that Clark and Lowry could develop into above average players though as well.
 

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I knew I would be in the minority on thinking Jones is a good long term (low dollar) FA.

Maybe Im wrong on his value? He might be worth a lot more to a 4-3 team. Or a 3-4 team that actually plays a 3-4. :)

You're probably right in the neighborhood salary wise. The problem is he's basically been a schmo at DE and OLB. His lack of discipline (blows assignments and gap control, dumb penalties) are also red flags.
 

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Many would have said the same thing about Perry.

You make your calls on players individually; not he might turn it around because, well, after all somebody else did. Perry's biggest drawback was almost constantly being injured. He'd shown far more than Jones ever has going into this season.
 

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If you can generate a pass rush then you can get away with these corners and a reasonable fa or day 2 pick to join them. The pass rush is horrible. Revis island would get exposed by this rush.
 

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There won't be enough quality draft picks to fill all the weaknesses that already exist, let alone to fill those created by further ridding the team of veterans.

Perhaps MM and Capers can turn yet another round of long-shot late round draft picks and UDFAs into starters and quality backups. They'll have no other choice unless TT is a cat capable of changing his spots.
 

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Best defensive line in history, but I'm obviously biased.

Well, there's the Fearsome Foursome, The Purple People Eaters, the great Cowboys D lines of the 60's and 70's, the Steel Curtain and so on, but yeah, I'd put ours in the discussion.
 

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This is how I look at the positions currently.

QB: There clearly isn't a need for a starter or backup. When a team has an established starter who isn't imminently threatening to retire, I prefer just 2 QB's; however, this organization has a long history of drafting and developing QB's habitually so I wouldn't count on it. If they think there's more upside with Calahan, then they can sit tight. Otherwise, throw another dart in the later rounds.

RB: The huge (pun intended) question here is Lacy. I see the case for bringing him back cheap and short term and seeing if you can get something out of him. However, his failure to get in proper shape in a contract year makes me quite skeptical. I lean towards moving on. Montgomery showed plenty to have a spot in a two man backfield. I would draft a back out of this rich class to pair with Ty. Ripkowski has the FB spot on lock down, while Jackson and Crockett can compete with a new crop of UDFA's for the 3rd string spot.

WR: The passing offense is the strength of the team and all the pieces are returning, at least at wideout. That said, most of the success of the passing O is Rodgers and I do think they could afford to add more talent on the perimeter. They could use a vertical threat in particular. With Nelson and Cobb still on big deals, and Adams most likely getting paid relatively soon, they won't want to break the bank here. However, there are more pressing needs high in the draft and it's hard to count on a later pick bringing much to the table as rookies. That leads me to one name in particular: Marquise Goodwin. He's young, he's a capable deep threat, and he should be considerably cheaper than the Kenny Stills and Taylor Gabriels of the world.

TE: It's clear the offense is more functional when there is a receiving threat at TE. As this particular position is notoriously difficult for rookies to make a big impact, it would seem obvious that they should resign Cook. He's really the perfect candidate to bring back, as he's still fairly young and yet his previous failures should scare other teams from attempting to overpay and tempt him to go elsewhere. Plus, one would think that he'd be motivated to resign as Rodgers has really unlocked a lot of his potential. Richard Rodgers is a quality #2. With all of that said, this is a great TE class and they should be looking to spend a mid round pick on a developmental heir apparent. We will see where guys like Butt, Sprinkle, Engram, and Leggett go.

OL: I favor keeping both Lang and Tretter. There is a league wide dearth of OL talent, and I struggle with the idea of letting quality walk out the door unless they're getting offered the moon. Lang's age and Tretter's largely missed season should help keep their costs down. If they're kept, the OL is nearly set-- you'd really just want to find a true backup at guard as Barclay is likely gone and you don't want to force Spriggs to have to play inside again. But OT will be all set with Bakhtiari, Bulaga, Spriggs, and Murphy and center would be good to go with Linsley and Tretter.

DL: Daniels is a quality starter and there is some promising youth here. I would like to see more depth that can rotate. I'm not smitten with this draft class along the defensive front. It isn't terrible, but this is one area where a veteran might make more sense. Lawrence Guy, originally drafted by the Packers in 2011, has grown into a solid rotational player in Baltimore and would be a sensible choice to bolster the front.

OLB: I think it's clear that Peppers is moving on. I would think really hard about cutting Matthews, but I doubt they would do it, so I'm just assuming he returns. Perry needs to be retained and they need to see another step forward from Fackrell. I would find some more veteran help, though I doubt the premier guys (like Ingram or Jones) actually get to the market. Alex Okafor strikes me as a guy who might have some untapped potential. Actually, so does Datone Jones. He's only had one season at OLB and was around the QB, knocking him down quite often despite only registering the lone sack. If he takes a step forward in his second year at the position, he would be a great rotational option. Thus, I wouldn't mind them keeping Jones on the cheap for a year or two and spending a high pick on the position as well. There's a bevvy of first round names to monitor (Barnett, Charlton, Harris, McKinley, Watt, etc), as well as some interesting names that could come up later (Bowser, Nwachuku, Willis, etc.).

ILB: The Packers are notably young and thin at ILB. Ryan, Martinez, and Thomas aren't offensively terrible but they could certainly be improved upon. Given their youth, a veteran makes sense here. Zach Brown has really come on recently and has some cover skills. Kevin Minter is more of a thumper. Korey Toomer, an RFA who probably will be tendered, was shockingly good in San Diego last year and would be a great target if they let him walk. Sio Moore would be a solid cheaper option.

CB: This position is obviously the most glaring. Randall, Rollins, and Gunter should all be back but they need some talent to push them down the depth chart. Stephon Gilmore and Trumaine Johnson are the guys that strike me as having a chance to be true #1 corners. Logan Ryan is a very good player, but I always worry about paying a guy out of NE. They have such a knack for using their players perfectly that there's a real risk of them getting into another system and totally flopping. This draft class is also loaded. If they don't sign a FA (or settle for a lesser one), they basically have to use their 1st round pick on the position (Gareon Conley or Tre'Davious White could be there at #29). If they do land a top veteran corner, they should still take another relatively high (Kazee, Elder, etc.). Micah Hyde needs to be retained as a sub package play maker.

S: The starters are set with Clinton-Dix and Burnett. Brice seems likely to make it back as depth. Other than that the cupboard is pretty bare. I could see them looking at veteran depth and a mid to late draft pick.
 

sdh09e44

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If you can generate a pass rush then you can get away with these corners and a reasonable fa or day 2 pick to join them. The pass rush is horrible. Revis island would get exposed by this rush.

Speaking of Revis Island, I am curious to see what is going to happen with his situation in NY. No way are they going to keep him at that salary and I saw an article that he might be cut.

At a fair price, he would be an instant upgrade to everyone we have, even though he had a rough year.

Rodgers-Cromartie too.
 
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