Your Draft grades

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree with the article, I especially like that Thompson finally used FA to add a little freedom to his drafting and some latitude to do a little BPA/BVA selections as opposed to being handcuffed to glaring needs.

Thompson spending the team's first two picks on defensive backs only two years after drafting Randall and Rollins as well as selecting three running backs indicates he was pretty strongly handcuffed by positions of need.

 

[easyk83]

In Law we have Mandatory authority and persuasive authority, one a Court must follow and the other might make a good argument but the Court doesn't have to apply it. PFF sometimes receives a little too much weight. A useful resource but one should never say PFF says x therefore y.

PFF is a subjective scoring system made by persons of varying football knowledge who almost certainly do not have full schematic knowledge or the coaches directions on hand. Does a PFF grader know when someone else screwed up? Does PFF know if the coach directed the player in question to play in an extremely aggressive fashion?

 

[brandon2348]

He's like Jabrill Peppers but with less hype and perhaps a higher ceiling. Depending on how he's used I could see him turning into a star, he will have the opportunities in this defense if he can get onto the field.

Out of the three "Obi, Peppers, Jones" we got the best one.

 

[easyk83]

Thompson spending the team's first two picks on defensive backs only two years after drafting Randall and Rollins as well as selecting three running backs indicates he was pretty strongly handcuffed by positions of need.

But one of those picks was a slash selection, not someone who really fits in any of the classic DB roles. Besides this draft was incredibly deep in DB DL and edge rusher talent, TT traded back when his chosen CB was on the board. Ergo he was not handcuffed by need.

 

[Dantés]

Whatever, sorry that I brought up possible negatives about one of the elite combine performers, which you seem to care about the most.

Do you know where Jones was ranked before the underwear olympics were held in Indy???

Dude... do you really have to get this pissy? Just because people are taking PFF's take in conjunction with others, and not as the authority over the rest of them?

You asked why people liked the pick, you were told, and now you're throwing a fit that people aren't ready to discount what everyone else has said in favor of your favorite website.

I didn't disregard PFF's less favorable take. I said it deserves to be taken in along with the rest. It would seem that Jones is a very talented prospect with some versatility. He has ball skills, but some holes in coverage, especially in regard to staying in phase in man coverage when a receiver breaks off a route. He has stopping power as a tackler, but has issues with consistency and form. That seems to be the read on him, taken altogether.

But you didn't take anything together. You cited your site, called him a "huge reach," and got ticked when others didn't see that as the most reliable way to form an opinion.

 

[Dantés]

In Law we have Mandatory authority and persuasive authority, one a Court must follow and the other might make a good argument but the Court doesn't have to apply it. PFF sometimes receives a little too much weight. A useful resource but one should never say PFF says x therefore y.

PFF is a subjective scoring system made by persons of varying football knowledge who almost certainly do not have full schematic knowledge or the coaches directions on hand. Does a PFF grader know when someone else screwed up? Does PFF know if the coach directed the player in question to play in an extremely aggressive fashion?

No they don't. But neither do NFL scouts who are scouting other teams' players (NFL or otherwise). Or media scouts like Jeremiah or Zierlein for that matter. I think PFF is a quality source as far as what's available to the public. It's just not the only one.

 

[easyk83]

No they don't. But neither do NFL scouts who are scouting other teams' players (NFL or otherwise). Or media scouts like Jeremiah or Zierlein for that matter. I think PFF is a quality source as far as what's available to the public. It's just not the only one.

Oh I don't disagree with the last sentence, but I hate arguments like PFF says x therefore you are wrong. I like PFF use as a supporting argument but not as a sole support for a conclusion.

 

[Mondio]

I use PFF when it supports my argument. When they don't, it's crap. Like now, because every draft pick gets a ****ing A from me. that's right a ***** freaking A+++++++++++++++ ad infinitum et ultra because it's May 2nd and they're all going to be superstars for us.

at least that is my hope. Grades are subject to change by September and again by December and then again next year. and PFF may or may not be a legitimate source at any point from here forward. It depends what they have to say compared to me

But seriously, overall, I don't know why someone would dislike this draft. Maybe some picks here or there, but overall? I'm not going to complain too much

 

[easyk83]

I use PFF when it supports my argument. When they don't, it's crap. Like now, because every draft pick gets a ******* A from me. that's right a ***** freaking A+++++++++++++++ ad infinitum et ultra because it's May 2nd and they're all going to be superstars for us.

at least that is my hope. Grades are subject to change by September and again by December and then again next year. and PFF may or may not be a legitimate source at any point from here forward. It depends what they have to say compared to me

But seriously, overall, I don't know why someone would dislike this draft. Maybe some picks here or there, but overall? I'm not going to complain too much

Me too.

 

[Mavster]

The one edge player we came away with was Biegel. A soon to be 24 year old rookie, yuck

Other than that I have no issues with the draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I can't figure out why some people are so hung up on Biegel being 23 (he turns 24 this July). It's as if he is already washed up. Many of the 4 year starters coming out of college are at least 22, if not 23 with a red shirt year. Sure, there are the 20 year olds that you can draft, but they probably have 2 years less experience in college and maturity wise, not always up to snuff with a guy like Biegel.

 

[PackerDNA]

I can't figure out why some people are so hung up on Biegel being 23 (he turns 24 this July). It's as if he is already washed up. Many of the 4 year starters coming out of college are at least 22, if not 23 with a red shirt year. Sure, there are the 20 year olds that you can draft, but they probably have 2 years less experience in college and maturity wise, not always up to snuff with a guy like Biegel.

Yeah, same here.Or like " OMG, his arms are a 1/4 of an inch too short!" Can he play or not?

 

[Arthur Squires]

We drafted a future probowl stud in King. It's possible he breaks onto the scene like Marcus Peters did his rookie year. A true ball player that loves the game and will be a role model for young players for years to come in Biegel. A bruiser of a back that has a chance to score a handfull of TDs for us this season in Jamaal Williams. And also a scat back who can run for daylight to compliment Williams in Aaron Jones. And to top if off an uber talented WR that only lacks elite speed that could be our steal of draft in the 7th in Dupree. Positives only I leave the negative out.

 

[brandon2348]

We drafted a future probowl stud in King. It's possible he breaks onto the scene like Marcus Peters did his rookie year. A true ball player that loves the game and will be a role model for young players for years to come in Biegel. A bruiser of a back that has a chance to score a handfull of TDs for us this season in Jamaal Williams. And also a scat back who can run for daylight to compliment Williams in Aaron Jones. And to top if off an uber talented WR that only lacks elite speed that could be our steal of draft in the 7th in Dupree. Positives only I leave the negative out.

Don't leave out a safety/corner hybrid that can keep up with receivers in the slot in Jones.

 

[sschind]

Pretty good article.

http://teamstre.am/2pOpK83

I read that and I don't necessarily agree with it. One of the biggest issues a lot of people have with Ted is that he doesn't go after the big play makers. The guys he does get are probably better than average value priced guys who can step in and contribute as opposed to those who can come in and be game changers. Other than Bennett I don't think any of the Packer additions this off season are anything different than that. I like the moves Ted has made but other than the sheer number of FA signings nothing is any different than Teds SOP.

Thompson spending the team's first two picks on defensive backs only two years after drafting Randall and Rollins as well as selecting three running backs indicates he was pretty strongly handcuffed by positions of need.

Its funny how opinions can differ. WIMM says drafting DBs 1&2 and taking 3 RBs is clear evidence that Ted
was handcuffed by positions of need while on another board someone pointed to the exact same thing (DBs 1&2 and 3 RBs) as clear evidence that Ted was going for the BPA at that spot.

Out of the three "Obi, Peppers, Jones" we got the best one.

Would you feel the same if we had landed Peppers or Obi instead? I sometimes wonder if the "he's our guy so he's better" mentality doesn't kick in more often than we care to admit. Fans always seem to have a tendency to overvalue their own guys. If they are trading a guy away they wouldn't take less than a 1st rounder but if they are considering trading for him he isn't worth anything more than a 3rd, that type stuff. I'm not saying this is the case with you and Jones but I've seen it way to often to not at least notice the possibility of it happening.

 

[AmishMafia]

Its funny how opinions can differ. WIMM says drafting DBs 1&2 and taking 3 RBs is clear evidence that Ted
was handcuffed by positions of need while on another board someone . . .


Would you feel the same if we had landed Peppers or Obi instead? I sometimes wonder if the "he's our guy so he's better" mentality doesn't kick in more often than we care to admit. Fans always seem to have a tendency to overvalue their own guys. If they are trading a guy away they wouldn't take less than a 1st rounder but if they are considering trading for him he isn't worth anything more than a 3rd, that type stuff. I'm not saying this is the case with you and Jones but I've seen it way to often to not at least notice the possibility of it happening.

Human nature - Tribalism: The positive attitudes stemming from loyalty to a social group you belong to. We are Packer fans and are only reading Packer info which is very positive. We believe in our players because we believe we are right as Packer fans. I do it to. I wanted Peopers. As soon as read up on Jones, I "realized" he is better.

The Wimm quote is another example. The data can easily be taken either way, but in his mind, TT is a bad GM therefore all information will be processed that way. Therefore TT is a liar about BPA and he drafts for need.

 

[Arthur Squires]

Don't leave out a safety/corner hybrid that can keep up with receivers in the slot in Jones.

Don't know much about him and never seen him play. But I hope he is what everyone says he is a hard hitting ballhawk DB.

 

[brandon2348]

.



Would you feel the same if we had landed Peppers or Obi instead? I sometimes wonder if the "he's our guy so he's better" mentality doesn't kick in more often than we care to admit. Fans always seem to have a tendency to overvalue their own guys. If they are trading a guy away they wouldn't take less than a 1st rounder but if they are considering trading for him he isn't worth anything more than a 3rd, that type stuff. I'm not saying this is the case with you and Jones but I've seen it way to often to not at least notice the possibility of it happening.

Never wanted Obi. I think he has the biggest chance to bust as he is very very raw and doesn't seem that instinctive. Peppers really didn't have the production on defense I would like to see. I would of hoped for the best with these two obviously but would have way more concerns about those two that Captain seems to have about Jones.

Jones is kind of the "happy medium" with production and great measurables. Jones is my favorite pick in the whole draft as i've posted. He played on a crappy team in the ACC and kind of flew under the radar. Lucky for us.

I believe Thompson hit gold with this pick.

 

[sschind]

Never wanted Obi. I think he has the biggest chance to bust as he is very very raw and doesn't seem that instinctive. Peppers really didn't have the production on defense I would like to see. I would of hoped for the best with these two obviously but would have way more concerns about those two that Captain seems to have about Jones.

Jones is kind of the "happy medium" with production and great measurables. Jones is my favorite pick in the whole draft as i've posted. He played on a crappy team in the ACC and kind of flew under the radar. Lucky for us.

I believe Thompson hit gold with this pick.

I didn't mean to imply you were guilty of the "he's ours so he's better" way of thinking in this case but thanks for taking the time for explaining your mindset. You have to admit it does happen.

 

[brandon2348]

I didn't mean to imply you were guilty of the "he's ours so he's better" way of thinking in this case but thanks for taking the time for explaining your mindset. You have to admit it does happen.

Absolutely, it happens a lot but personally for me in a long time I'm not sitting here scratching my head over a lot of Thompson's picks. I think this draft has a good chance to turn out to be his best draft ever.

 

[Arthur Squires]

Never wanted Obi. I think he has the biggest chance to bust as he is very very raw and doesn't seem that instinctive. Peppers really didn't have the production on defense I would like to see. I would of hoped for the best with these two obviously but would have way more concerns about those two that Captain seems to have about Jones.

Jones is kind of the "happy medium" with production and great measurables. Jones is my favorite pick in the whole draft as i've posted. He played on a crappy team in the ACC and kind of flew under the radar. Lucky for us.

I believe Thompson hit gold with this pick.

I feel the exactsame way only about Dupree not Jones.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Never wanted Obi. I think he has the biggest chance to bust as he is very very raw and doesn't seem that instinctive. Peppers really didn't have the production on defense I would like to see. I would of hoped for the best with these two obviously but would have way more concerns about those two that Captain seems to have about Jones.

Jones is kind of the "happy medium" with production and great measurables. Jones is my favorite pick in the whole draft as i've posted. He played on a crappy team in the ACC and kind of flew under the radar. Lucky for us.

I believe Thompson hit gold with this pick.

Jones has much higher bust potential than Obi, IMO. Obi isn't very instinctive, but he handles all of his duties well, and doesn't have the lapses in concentration or awareness that Jones does. Jones is more aggressive, and they both flash solid coverage and ball skills, but he has further to go.

 

[ExpatPacker]

Jones has much higher bust potential than Obi, IMO. Obi isn't very instinctive, but he handles all of his duties well, and doesn't have the lapses in concentration or awareness that Jones does. Jones is more aggressive, and they both flash solid coverage and ball skills, but he has further to go.

But also for that reason Jones could end up the better player. Packers desperatly need a real hitter in the defensive backfield a la Kam Chancellor.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

PFF is a subjective scoring system made by persons of varying football knowledge who almost certainly do not have full schematic knowledge or the coaches directions on hand. Does a PFF grader know when someone else screwed up? Does PFF know if the coach directed the player in question to play in an extremely aggressive fashion?

This is an extremely weak argument against PFF as no media outlet has access to that information. Yet several posters around here feel knowledgeable enough to make a credible evaluation about prospects based on highlight films.

But one of those picks was a slash selection, not someone who really fits in any of the classic DB roles. Besides this draft was incredibly deep in DB DL and edge rusher talent, TT traded back when his chosen CB was on the board. Ergo he was not handcuffed by need.

Thompson trading back indicates that there were several prospects available the Packers liked but doesn't mean need didn't factor in any of the selections.

Dude... do you really have to get this pissy? Just because people are taking PFF's take in conjunction with others, and not as the authority over the rest of them?

But you didn't take anything together. You cited your site, called him a "huge reach," and got ticked when others didn't see that as the most reliable way to form an opinion.

You're right, I'm sorry about being pissy. It seems a lot of other draftniks agree that Jones is more talented than PFF has graded him and I should have taken that into consideration. I truly hope they are right about him and he turns into a stud.

We drafted a future probowl stud in King. It's possible he breaks onto the scene like Marcus Peters did his rookie year.

While Peters made a lot of plays on the ball during his rookie season he allowed the second most receiving yards that year as well.

The Wimm quote is another example. The data can easily be taken either way, but in his mind, TT is a bad GM therefore all information will be processed that way. Therefore TT is a liar about BPA and he drafts for need.

I have posted it on several occasions that I believe overall Thompson has done a great job over his tenure with the Packers and that I don't consider him a bad general manager by any means. Other than you I don't agree with every single move he makes though resulting in you putting me in the TT hater group for whatever reason. The Packers having spent their first selection on defense over the last six years as well as their first four picks on that side of the ball this time around is a pretty strong indicator that position of need is a huge factor in making a selection.

 

[Dantés]

You're right, I'm sorry about being pissy. It seems a lot of other draftniks agree that Jones is more talented than PFF has graded him and I should have taken that into consideration. I truly hope they are right about him and he turns into a stud.

I was watching him yesterday and I could see where both takes are coming from. He went in too high and missed some tackles. And yet he ranged over at times and made some big play saving tackles too. In coverage, he usually needs to keep the play in front of him.

I think PFF is emphasizing the holes in his production, while the other sources are emphasizing the projection of his traits. Like you, I hope the latter are correct. But sincerely, I appreciate you bringing the other perspective into things, as well as this reply.