Your Draft grades

[brandon2348]

Pretty good article.

http://teamstre.am/2pOpK83

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Pretty good article.

http://teamstre.am/2pOpK83

This was funny....

"They look at Thompson the way Starfleet captains look at James Kirk."

....considering some posters on here have viewed TT as Captain Pike

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"....Tyrannosaurus Ted is dead"

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'll grade this draft in 3 years.

So will I. You can do both.

The guys who pick players have graded them; we can have our opinions as well. It's accepted that a grade now is fraught with unknowns and highly subject to error. Looking back in 3 years is pretty darn easy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So will I. You can do both.

The guys who pick players have graded them; we can have our opinions as well. It's accepted that a grade now is fraught with unknowns and highly subject to error. Looking back in 3 years is pretty darn easy.

Grades on a draft class that hasn't taken an NFL snap are kind of funny. I mean I understand that they are purely subjective, you are grading on potential and how you perceive it will all work out, as well as injecting what you thought should have been done. Would be fun to look at a chart showing the Draft Grades post draft VS. the Draft Grades 3-4 years down the line. Guessing there would be a considerable variation between the two.

 

[Sky King]

Pretty good article.

http://teamstre.am/2pOpK83

Thanks, it is a very good read. Encouraging, too. Maybe. I hope.

People can evolve if they want or need to. If this actually turns out to be TT fine-tuning his philosophies so that he can become an even more effective GM in the twilight of his career then I'll be glad to give him his due.

Draft, develop and fill-in roster holes wisely with a sensible balance of vets having NFL experience blended with youngsters having legitimate upside. At least I can hope that's what is really happening. It helps me to feel like we're winning the off-season -- kind of like I was the typical Vikings fan at around this time of year.

 

[Dantés]

Overall I think it was a solid draft but there's no reason to get overly excited about it. I'm curious why a lot of posters seem to like the Jones pick in the second round though. Here's a link to PFF's scouting report on him:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-josh-jones-s-nc-state/

That sounds like selecting him in the second round was a huge reach.

To answer your question, I assume it's because most of us are reading more than PFF.

Daniel Jeremiah ranked him as his #41 overall prospect and was very complimentary.

Lance Zierlein gave him the 44th highest grade in this class.

Josh Norris ranked him 68th overall.

CBS ranked him 48th overall and Dane Brugler was complimentary.

I never watched him and haven't had time since. I'm totally reliant on the reports of others. So the reason why I would suppose that most like the pick is that most sources indicate that the value was either good, or at least appropriate.

Now the PFF take doesn't deserve to be discounted simply because it isn't very positive. But it's also just one take of multiple from reputable sources. I hadn't seen it yet, so thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

I will say that the comp. to Elam is kind of strange to me, especially because they suggest that athleticism has something to do with it.

Jones was 6'1" 220 at the combine and ran a 4.41 with a 37.5" vert and a 132" broad.

Elam was 5'10" 208 at the combine and ran a 4.54 with a 35.5" vert and a 118" broad.

Eventually I will take a look at him and give my two cents. Not that that will be the end of it, but it will help me determine to what extent I agree with all of the reports. But I would suggest that it's a huge reach to call him a "huge reach" because one source out of several wasn't particularly fond.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To answer your question, I assume it's because most of us are reading more than PFF.

Daniel Jeremiah ranked him as his #41 overall prospect and was very complimentary.

Lance Zierlein gave him the 44th highest grade in this class.

Josh Norris ranked him 68th overall.

CBS ranked him 48th overall and Dane Brugler was complimentary.

I never watched him and haven't had time since. I'm totally reliant on the reports of others. So the reason why I would suppose that most like the pick is that most sources indicate that the value was either good, or at least appropriate.

Now the PFF take doesn't deserve to be discounted simply because it isn't very positive. But it's also just one take of multiple from reputable sources. I hadn't seen it yet, so thanks for bringing it to everyone's attention.

I read content from other sources than PFF as well but put more stock into the analytical work of people that have worked in the league before over a reporter's or a single scout's take.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Jones to prove PFF wrong but am concerned that he could end up being a bust.

Taking a look at the Packers other selections it seems the team possibly got steals by selecting Jamaal Williams and Malachi Dupre and good value in drafting Kevin King, Montravious Adams and Vince Biegel. Other than that I'm mostly disappointed in ending up with DeAngelo Yancey, Aaron Jones, Kofi Amichia and Devante Mays.

 

[Dantés]

I read content from other sources than PFF as well but put more stock into the analytical work of people that have worked in the league before over a reporter's or a single scout's take.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Jones to prove PFF wrong but am concerned that he could end up being a bust.

Taking a look at the Packers other selections it seems the team possibly got steals by selecting Jamaal Williams and Malachi Dupre and good value in drafting Kevin King, Montravious Adams and Vince Biegel. Other than that I'm mostly disappointed in ending up with DeAngelo Yancey, Aaron Jones, Kofi Amichia and Devante Mays.

Well there's the answer to your question. We don't all take PFF as the final word on all things football.

 

[brandon2348]

I read content from other sources than PFF as well but put more stock into the analytical work of people that have worked in the league before over a reporter's or a single scout's take.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Jones to prove PFF wrong but am concerned that he could end up being a bust.

Taking a look at the Packers other selections it seems the team possibly got steals by selecting Jamaal Williams and Malachi Dupre and good value in drafting Kevin King, Montravious Adams and Vince Biegel. Other than that I'm mostly disappointed in ending up with DeAngelo Yancey, Aaron Jones, Kofi Amichia and Devante Mays.

PFF isn't the bible. It's a good measuring stick but not the end all be all. Yes, Jones is overly aggressive if you watch his tape but I see this as a positive. He had over 100 tackles last season with off the chart measurables and testing so I don't see him as a bust candidate. I believe nobody here talked about him before the draft including myself because I didnt think they would go safety. The reality is Jones is much more then just a safety.

I would take him straight up right now over Peppers and Obi who were drafted ahead of him and who I think both have a way greater chance then Jones to bust. We got great value here.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I read content from other sources than PFF as well but put more stock into the analytical work of people that have worked in the league before over a reporter's or a single scout's take.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for Jones to prove PFF wrong but am concerned that he could end up being a bust.

Taking a look at the Packers other selections it seems the team possibly got steals by selecting Jamaal Williams and Malachi Dupre and good value in drafting Kevin King, Montravious Adams and Vince Biegel. Other than that I'm mostly disappointed in ending up with DeAngelo Yancey, Aaron Jones, Kofi Amichia and Devante Mays.

What did you expect out of the 5th or later? I did think they should have taken it easy on the RBs, but the result was likely to be the same for anyone taken here.

I'm not loving what I see out of Jones, but it sounds like many of his negatives (too aggressive, missed tackles, etc.) Are coachable, and not unlike Keanu Neal. They blasted the Neal pick in a similar fashion, yet he's turned out to be one of the better rookies.

 

[bigbubbatd]

PFF is one of the first places I have seen be down on the Jones pick. It definitely sounds like he needs to be coached up but right now PFF seems like the outlier on him not the norm. It will be interesting to see who is right.

I have loved seeing the increase in athleticism the first few picks. This defense needs that. Really after the middle part of the first round you rarely get top level athlete, with great production, great technique, and high character. There will be negatives and the coaching staff needs to iron those out

 

[Patriotplayer90]

PFF is one of the first places I have seen be down on the Jones pick. It definitely sounds like he needs to be coached up but right now PFF seems like the outlier on him not the norm. It will be interesting to see who is right.

I have loved seeing the increase in athleticism the first few picks. This defense needs that. Really after the middle part of the first round you rarely get top level athlete, with great production, great technique, and high character. There will be negatives and the coaching staff needs to iron those out

I think the issue is that PFF hates missed tackles , and penalize players accordingly. He had the 11th highest run stop percentage despite the misses, impeccable production in coverage (around 50% completion rate, 0 TD, 3 INTs, 6 PD), so it's not like he's a combine warrior who failed to put it all together on the field.

I think PFF is useful for their statistical analysis, but I think most of their criticism of Jones is out of their realm. Reading between their lines, he played well despite needing polish. That combined with his athleticism makes me refrain from claiming he's a ST player like they are.

 

[Dantés]

I think the issue is that PFF hates missed tackles , and penalize players accordingly. He had the 11th highest run stop percentage despite the misses, impeccable production in coverage (around 50% completion rate, 0 TD, 3 INTs, 6 PD), so it's not like he's a combine warrior who failed to put it all together on the field.

I think PFF is useful for their statistical analysis, but I think most of their criticism of Jones is out of their realm. Reading between their lines, he played well despite needing polish. That combined with his athleticism makes me refrain from claiming he's a ST player like they are.

I have seen other sources mention that he can panic in coverage and is more explosive than he is a fluid man coverage player. We will find out. I think PFF's analysis warrants attention. But like you, I see no reason why it ought to trump all the other qualified takes.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well there's the answer to your question. We don't all take PFF as the final word on all things football.

PFF isn't the bible. It's a good measuring stick but not the end all be all.

I don't consider PFF presenting a perfect evaluation of prospects by any means but in my opinion it offers a better analysis than reading the opinion of a single scout. It's absolutely fine if you decide to rely on information from other sources but completely disregarding their information is ignorant.

What did you expect out of the 5th or later? I did think they should have taken it easy on the RBs, but the result was likely to be the same for anyone taken here.

There were better options available late in the draft like taking a gamble on Joe Mathis instead of drafting another running back in Devante Mays.

 

[Dantés]

I don't consider PFF presenting a perfect evaluation of prospects by any means but in my opinion it offers a better analysis than reading the opinion of a single scout. It's absolutely fine if you decide to rely on information from other sources but completely disregarding their information is ignorant.



There were better options available late in the draft like taking a gamble on Joe Mathis instead of drafting another running back in Devante Mays.

I'm not the one disregarding other sources.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not the one disregarding other sources.

Whatever, sorry that I brought up possible negatives about one of the elite combine performers, which you seem to care about the most.

Do you know where Jones was ranked before the underwear olympics were held in Indy???

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I have seen other sources mention that he can panic in coverage and is more explosive than he is a fluid man coverage player. We will find out. I think PFF's analysis warrants attention. But like you, I see no reason why it ought to trump all the other qualified takes.

I think that's typical of all box safeties with his frame. I didn't see PFF post any criticism that other scouts didn't mention, which make me curious as to why they knocked him so much.

There were better options available late in the draft like taking a gamble on Joe Mathis instead of drafting another running back in Devante Mays.

While that may be true, it's Ted Thompson we're talking about. We're just lucky that we didn't end up with another UCLA defensive lineman with the first pick (good thing McKinley was gone), and the subsequent selections of backup linemen and CBs who run 4.6s.

The fact that they are trying to inject the team with athleticism is a positive sign that they are finally realizing that it's been lacking. I love Williams, but would have addressed other positions instead of RB as well with those later picks. Mays reminds me a lot of Starks,but I'm not sure that I see Jones' fit as an NFL RB.

 

[easyk83]

There both 6'3. King is bigger at 200 and faster with better hop's. Sherman suffers from the same short quickness problem as he has problems at times with smaller and quicker receivers. Like you posted this pick looks "good on paper" if not great.

This is really gonna be something to watch play out. At least we might finally have someone to throw at Julio Jones and Dez Bryant that can physically match up.

Well those long arms are good for tugging grabbing and cheating, helps make up for things like short area quickness.

 

[brandon2348]

I don't consider PFF presenting a perfect evaluation of prospects by any means but in my opinion it offers a better analysis than reading the opinion of a single scout. It's absolutely fine if you decide to rely on information from other sources but completely disregarding their information is ignorant.
.

I posted that PFF is a good "measuring stick' but one really has to dive into the tape for themselves to really get there own opinion of Jones. Overall I like what I see and I understand some people don't like going safety here but Jones projects as more then just a safety. I really like the idea of having Haha, Jones and Burnett all on the field at the same time.

Jones is the type of the player that the Seahawks usually draft and they play pretty damn good defense so give me as many of these guys as I can get. And when I say "these guys" I mean guys with off the chart measurables and production. If you don't like the pick that's fine and time will ultimately tell what we fully get here but to not think he isn't an intriguing option and just going by PFF on this would be ignorant.

 

[easyk83]

Pretty good article.

http://teamstre.am/2pOpK83

Drake sucks, ahem.

I agree with the article, I especially like that Thompson finally used FA to add a little freedom to his drafting and some latitude to do a little BPA/BVA selections as opposed to being handcuffed to glaring needs.

How do I grade the draft, I can't yet because Im clueless as to how these guys will pan out. BUT TT did do a good job selecting cats who were potentially undervalued throughout the draft. King if used in a limited outside role will likely be a great value pick up outside of the hash marks and Jones looks like the kind of player that we wished Micah Hyde could be.

Adams received a knock against his effort and intensity for a sluggish junior year in which he was playing through significant injuries, which likely downgraded him in the draft.

Biegel lost significant time due to a foot injury in his senior campaign which likely knocked him down a round or two.

Dupree played with a dumpster fire qb situation throughout his career.

So yeah, I feel like we got pretty good value through days 2 and 3.

 

[brandon2348]

Well those long arms are good for tugging grabbing and cheating, helps make up for things like short area quickness.

I am actually liking the pick more every day and Schnieder got too cute and lost him to us. There pretty pissed off in Seattle about it. They ended up with Malik "Glass Jaw" McDowell.

 

[easyk83]

The more I watch the more I like the Jamaal Williams pick, a decisive north south runner who plays hard and fast. Reminds me of Ryan Grant with less long speed but better at cutting and changing direction.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you don't like the pick that's fine and time will ultimately tell what we fully get here but to not think he isn't an intriguing option and just going by PFF on this would be ignorant.

I'm sorry but having a different opinion about Jones isn't being ignorant as there were other scouts not liking his tape at all. On the other side disregarding the most in-depth analytical information for some random reason makes me believe some posters aren't interested in any valid concerns about a player the Packers drafted.

Don't get me wrong, I hope PFF is wrong and Jones turns into an All-Pro but I'm worried about him ending up being a bust.

 

[easyk83]

I posted that PFF is a good "measuring stick' but one really has to dive into the tape for themselves to really get there own opinion of Jones. Overall I like what I see and I understand some people don't like going safety here but Jones projects as more then just a safety. I really like the idea of having Haha, Jones and Burnett all on the field at the same time.

Jones is the type of the player that the Seahawks usually draft and they play pretty damn good defense so give me as many of these guys as I can get. And when I say "these guys" I mean guys with off the chart measurables and production. If you don't like the pick that's fine and time will ultimately tell what we fully get here but to not think he isn't an intriguing option and just going by PFF on this would be ignorant.

He's like Jabrill Peppers but with less hype and perhaps a higher ceiling. Depending on how he's used I could see him turning into a star, he will have the opportunities in this defense if he can get onto the field.

 

[brandon2348]

I'm sorry but having a different opinion about Jones isn't being ignorant as there were other scouts not liking his tape at all. On the other side disregarding the most in-depth analytical information for some random reason makes me believe some posters aren't interested in any valid concerns about a player the Packers drafted.

Don't get me wrong, I hope PFF is wrong and Jones turns into an All-Pro but I'm worried about him ending up being a bust.

I like PFF. Like I said I think it's a good "measuring stick". There is obviously a wide range of opinions on Jones from Great to not so great so it's a wait and see. Any of these guys can bust but I have a hard time believing a guy that made over a 100 tackles with his measurables is gonna be some big bust but once again well see.