Wide Receiver Options

[Kramer]

Adams is a loss obviously but I don't think we will all of a sudden be horrific in that area either; I think we will be just fine.

 

[sschind]

There actually are two issues here:

1. Did Adams hang GB out to dry by leaving? To the extent that he surprised the FO and the fans, yes, he could have told them his intentions much earlier. Maybe there were good reasons for him to keep it quiet. I don't know. He never said much, which is why I liked him. As a fan, I don't feel betrayed.

2. Did GB end up on the better end of the Adams trade? I think OldSchool answers this. It's an emphatic yes. We got stronger in many areas, notably D, and prevented an exodus of guys like Campbell and Douglas. The WR group suffered, but that's gonna happen when the best receiver in the NFL leaves (and MVS). It could be worse. Gluten added a solid veteran in Watkins, and drafted a promising WR in Watson. I like this team's chances to win a SB this year.

I'm still trying to figure out how Adams left them hanging out to dry. He fulfilled every one of his responsibilities as spelled out in the previous extension he signed. His contract was up. The Packers had the option to tag him and they did. He had the option to sign or not and he told them he wouldn't. They tried to change his mind and couldn't and ended up trading him. I don't know how much earlier he could have told them that would have made it acceptable.

 

[OldSchool101]

1. Did Adams hang GB out to dry by leaving?

Davante Adams abandoned the Packers and left them to the elements as far as WR goes.
That’s as close as I can get to hung out to dry as I can think of, so yes. Might even as well be the prime example this season NFL wise if we posed the question league wise. You’d be surprised he’d get ptibdbly most votes, absolutely I’d put money on it.

Now. Do I lose sleep over Davante Adams? No.

Do I hate the guy? Absolutely not.

Seems like a good kid overall. Yet from a professional opinion I don’t think he wants to play in GB.

Do i think he might be a little cocky? Do I think he may have a little ill will towards certain staff members?
Yes

I’m sorry I can be somewhat crass with the truth and that sometimes rubs the Pharisee in our heart. But you’ll know where I stand. I don’t dilly dally as they say.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm still trying to figure out how Adams left them hanging out to dry. He fulfilled every one of his responsibilities as spelled out in the previous extension he signed. His contract was up. The Packers had the option to tag him and they did. He had the option to sign or not and he told them he wouldn't. They tried to change his mind and couldn't and ended up trading him. I don't know how much earlier he could have told them that would have made it acceptable.

This is one of those subjects that, for me at least, isn't worth any more debate. He wanted to go to Vegas and that's where he is. I think GB will be better off overall after the trade. One receiver getting $28 or $30 mil/year isn't worth it. Look at what the team got in exchange. That's it for me on this subject.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Davante Adams abandoned the Packers and left them to the elements as far as WR goes.
That’s as close as I can get to hung out to dry as I can think of, so yes. Might even as well be the prime example this season NFL wise if we posed the question league wise. You’d be surprised he’d get ptibdbly most votes, absolutely I’d put money on it.

Now. Do I lose sleep over Davante Adams? No.

Do I hate the guy? Absolutely not.

Seems like a good kid overall. Yet from a professional opinion I don’t think he wants to play in GB.

Do i think he might be a little cocky? Do I think he may have a little ill will towards certain staff members?
Yes

I’m sorry I can be somewhat crass with the truth and that sometimes rubs the Pharisee in our heart. But you’ll know where I stand. I don’t dilly dally as they say.

It's up to mgmt to make sure they're covered at a position. Adams didn't cause the situation with the WR group. That's due to a lack of planning and bad drafting.

 

[Schultz]

1. IMO Sschind has the better take on the DA situation than Old School.
2. IMO Old School does lose sleep thinking about Adams.
3. IMO my opinion doesn't really mean much.

 

[Heyjoe4]

1. IMO Sschind has the better take on the DA situation than Old School.
2. IMO Old School does lose sleep thinking about Adams.
3. IMO my opinion doesn't really mean much.

Schultz you should get paid for interjecting some humor into these situations.

And yeah, as soon as you hear someone, like me, say, "I don't care about it (insert the drama of the day - Love, Adams) at all." That means that's all I think about.

 

[sschind]

Davante Adams abandoned the Packers and left them to the elements as far as WR goes.
That’s as close as I can get to hung out to dry as I can think of, so yes. Might even as well be the prime example this season NFL wise if we posed the question league wise. You’d be surprised he’d get ptibdbly most votes, absolutely I’d put money on it.

Now. Do I lose sleep over Davante Adams? No.

Do I hate the guy? Absolutely not.

Seems like a good kid overall. Yet from a professional opinion I don’t think he wants to play in GB.

Do i think he might be a little cocky? Do I think he may have a little ill will towards certain staff members?
Yes

I’m sorry I can be somewhat crass with the truth and that sometimes rubs the Pharisee in our heart. But you’ll know where I stand. I don’t dilly dally as they say.

So a big part of what I'm getting from all this is that you are bitter because DA no longer wanted to play for the Packers.

I don't think you are being crass with the truth because so far I haven't really seen any in your arguments. Lots of opinions, some of which I agree with. That Adams abandoned the Packers and left them hung out to dry is not one of them.

 

[OldSchool101]

So a big part of what I'm getting from all this is that you are bitter because DA no longer wanted to play for the Packers.

I don't think you are being crass with the truth because so far I haven't really seen any in your arguments. Lots of opinions, some of which I agree with. That Adams abandoned the Packers and left them hung out to dry is not one of them.

I’m not bitter. I’m just stating what I see happened. See you have me confused with “most” people who can’t control their emotions or hold hardness of heart. Why not just ask me? If I was upset I’d tell you.
Why no common respect?

OHHHH! You believe that little song and dance about how much he loves you? So he started a bidding war (pitting his own team against a competitor in s wage war) only to force his way out by his own admission (for less money I might add!). But you really still think he loves you?!
I wouldn’t be a good friend if I didn’t tell you he DOES NOT!

Listen. You can get all the Raiders games online and not one of us will know!!

 

[OldSchool101]

It's up to mgmt to make sure they're covered at a position. Adams didn't cause the situation with the WR group. That's due to a lack of planning and bad drafting.

Bad drafting? Really?
So now we draft poorly?
The guy purposefully and willfully tried to shame our FO by abandoning our team (for less $$!) and now you’re blaming our Front Office??

It’s called him copping an attitude. You didn’t see any of the stuff leading up.. just forget it.

The funny part that we will all benefit from is that this whole thing is about to backfire on Adams.
I believe this made the Packers stronger when that was not his intent by any stretch. We smartly tagged him and got massive draft potential and then able to apply HUGE $ elsewhere all across our Roster. Brilliant! Gute nailed it resigning and adding talent! (and he’s likely not done!).
That J’aire move added ability to go get another player (Julio?)

 

[PikeBadger]

Schultz you should get paid for interjecting some humor into these situations.

And yeah, as soon as you hear someone, like me, say, "I don't care about it (insert the drama of the day - Love, Adams) at all." That means that's all I think about.

I thought you were finally done on this topic?!?! Blabbermouth!

 

[Heyjoe4]

I thought you were finally done on this topic?!?! Blabbermouth!

I guess I can't resist Pike. I'll limit myself to jokes.

 

[Poppa San]

I guess I can't resist Pike. I'll limit myself to jokes.

The one in the mirror? Or the one in the mirror naked.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I didn't know that about ****ey, thanks. He did put up a lot of passing yards as I recall. It was a bright spot during a miserable stretch for the team.

****ey held the Packers franchise record for passing yards in a season until 2011. Actually his 4,458 yards in 1983 still rank second in the team's history behind Rodgers' mark in '11.

The reason Lynn ****ey and The Pack did not go to the super bowl was because their D was absolutely horrible. Not because of the QB.

That's actually not true as the Packers ranked 21st (out of 28 teams) in points scored in the league over ****ey's tenure from 1976-85.

The defense actually fared better, ranking 16th over that span.

There is ZERO % chance that Adams will produce more than the 7 players we were able to retain because he purposefully hung us out to dry against the wishes of our entire staff.

See you make it a Adams vs our WR group. But you conveniently and repeatedly missed the full picture. You ignored…

Walker
Campbell
Reed
Rasul
Tonyan

That’s a “bonus”group we got from that trade

Once again, you ignore that the Packers could have afforded everyone they currently have under contract for the 2022 season even if they re-signed Adams.

The team currently has $11 million of effective cap space with Adams counting $8 million against the Raiders cap in 2022.

It's true the cap situation would have been worse moving forward but with it expected to skyrocket either in 2023 or '24 the Packers could have made it work with Adams on the roster as well.

It's true they wouldn't have been able to draft one of their first rounders though.

We got stronger in many areas, notably D, and prevented an exodus of guys like Campbell and Douglas.

Just for the record, Campbell signed before Adams was traded. Therefore he would be on the roster no matter what.

Bad drafting? Really?
So now we draft poorly?

Heyjoe was solely talking about the Packers having struggled drafting receivers. It's definitely true since selecting Adams in 2014.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Thanks for the info on Campbell. I'm surprised they signed him before Adams left. Could they have signed Adams to the deal he wanted AND kept Campbell? Apparently so but that would have required other cuts I'm guessing.

And yeah I was talking about the Packers poor preparedness at the WR position. Overall, and since Love, Gluten has done a good job with personnel. But they were (are) high and dry with Adams and MVS gone. As you pointed out they could have drafted Higgins or Pittman at #30 and kept the 4th round pick. That's just not good draft management at WR, especially in the first round.

 

[OldSchool101]

Heyjoe was solely talking about the Packers having struggled drafting receivers. It's definitely true since selecting Adams in 2014.

If that’s the case. Then my response would be who have we drafted since 2014 at WR??

2015
#94 overall Ty Montgomery

2016
#163 Trevor Davis

2017
#175 D. Yancey
#247 M Dupree

2018
#133 J. Moore
#174 MVS
# 207 EQ

2019
ZERO

2020
ZERO

2021
#85 Amari Rodgers

Boy. That’s a pitiful group I’m sorry it just hit me, nothing against you
I wouldn’t say we’ve struggled at drafting players.. I’d say we ignored drafting players.

Since the 2015 draft. Do you think there is another team that spent less draft resources at WR than The Packers? If so? Which team?

 

[Heyjoe4]

If that’s the case. Then my response would be who have we drafted since 2014 at WR??

2015
#94 overall Ty Montgomery

2016
#163 Trevor Davis

2017
#175 D. Yancey
#247 M Dupree

2018
#133 J. Moore
#174 MVS
# 207 EQ

2019
ZERO

2020
ZERO

2021
#85 Amari Rodgers


In the past 7 seasons (before 2022) we selected 2 WR before Day 3. Bith we’re late 3rd Rounders and 1 just finished his Rookie season so kinda hard to get a solid evaluation there.

I’d wouldn’t say we’ve struggled at drafting WR.
Id say we largely ignored it. I would even venture to say we had the lowest Draft resources (using a draft value calculator) at WR from 2015-2020 of any of the 32 teams. Kinda hard to say we struggled when we never really tried

Yeah, "ignoring" the position in the draft might be a better way to put it. None of the guys noted above, with the exception of MVS, have made meaningful contributions at the position. It's fair to wait on Amari Rodgers. But the rest of them? Ugh.

And if they had chosen one guy who could put up 800 to 1000 yards, 7 to 10 TDs they'd be better able to weather the departure of Adams and MVS. Now we have to count on a little or a lot of luck, depending on how you look at it.

 

[OldSchool101]

I didn’t want to detract from the above question if anyone can answer that I’d be interested.

I believe the Packers 2022 WR group is better than all those 7 drafts combined. Pick your top 6 WR from all 7 drafts at any high point in their careers (from above list)
I’ll take my top 6 WR from our current 2022 crop without blinking.

That’s how bad we ignored it.
I also wonder if some of Adams contributions are resulting from poor competition around him.
Davante had it made here in GB, best QB in history and the worst (debatable anyway) WR grouping (after him) in the NFL over 7 consecutive seasons

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Could they have signed Adams to the deal he wanted AND kept Campbell? Apparently so but that would have required other cuts I'm guessing.

Actually the Packers could have afforded to keep everyone they did for the 2022 season if they re-signed Adams to a contract structured the same way he agreed to with the Raiders.

If that’s the case. Then my response would be who have we drafted since 2014 at WR??

2015
#94 overall Ty Montgomery

2016
#163 Trevor Davis

2017
#175 D. Yancey
#247 M Dupree

2018
#133 J. Moore
#174 MVS
# 207 EQ

2019
ZERO

2020
ZERO

2021
#85 Amari Rodgers

Boy. That’s a pitiful group I’m sorry it just hit me, nothing against you
I wouldn’t say we’ve struggled at drafting players.. I’d say we ignored drafting players.

Since the 2015 draft. Do you think there is another team that spent less draft resources at WR than The Packers? If so? Which team?

Well, the only thing that matters is that the Packers haven't added even a single impact player at wide receiver since drafting Adams in 2014. That's both on Thompson and Gutekunst and should definitely be considered as a mistake.

I also wonder if some of Adams contributions are resulting from poor competition around him.
Davante had it made here in GB, best QB in history and the worst (debatable anyway) WR grouping (after him) in the NFL over 7 consecutive seasons

In my opinion Adams putting up those huge numbers despite opponents not having to focus on a lot of talent aside of him is even more impressive than if he was surrounded with a bunch of decent pass catchers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Actually the Packers could have afforded to keep everyone they did for the 2022 season if they re-signed Adams to a contract structured the same way he agreed to with the Raiders.



Well, the only thing that matters is that the Packers haven't added even a single impact player at wide receiver since drafting Adams in 2014. That's both on Thompson and Gutekunst and should definitely be considered as a mistake.



In my opinion Adams putting up those huge numbers despite opponents not having to focus on a lot of talent aside of him is even more impressive than if he was surrounded with a bunch of decent pass catchers.

I didn't know they could have kept Adams and still brought everyone back. Interesting. The magic of cap management. The problem I guess is that eventually that cap has to be counted, sometimes as dead cap. Well, they're going all in while Rodgers is here. Given how hard it is to find elite talent at QB, I think it's the right move. Except for rare cases.like Trent Dilfer with the Bucs long ago, SB winners almost always have an elite QB.

That's a good point about Adams putting up incredible numbers in spite of being double and even triple teamed. The guy just knew how to get open. It was amazing to watch and he'll be missed.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, the only thing that matters is that the Packers haven't added even a single impact player at wide receiver since drafting Adams in 2014. That's both on Thompson and Gutekunst and should definitely be considered as a mistake.

Are you thinking we had a lot of cap space or are you thinking we should not have signed our bookend DEs at the time? I can't off the top of my head think of other big money players we signed. Except those on new contracts.

 

[gopkrs]

Except for rare cases.like Trent Dilfer with the Bucs long ago, SB winners almost always have an elite QB.

That was the Ravens.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That was the Ravens.

I'll be damned, thanks for the correction. It was the 2000 SB. They won on the strength of the Ravens D I think. Dilfer was cut the following year.

I was thinking of the 2003 Bucs. They also won with an outstanding D and Brad Johnson at QB (I thought it was Dilfer). If I recall, Gruden was the coach but it was largely Tony Dungy's team.

Anyway thanks for the history lesson.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I didn't know they could have kept Adams and still brought everyone back. Interesting. The magic of cap management. The problem I guess is that eventually that cap has to be counted, sometimes as dead cap.

As I've mentioned in the past, the Packers cap situation would have been difficult to handle starting in 2023 if they re-signed Adams. They might have been able to manage it with the cap expected to skyrocket either in 2023 or '24 though. But they could have fit his contract under the cap for this season to make another run at the Super Bowl.

Of course there was no way of keeping him as he wasn't interested in staying in Green Bay.

Are you thinking we had a lot of cap space or are you thinking we should not have signed our bookend DEs at the time? I can't off the top of my head think of other big money players we signed. Except those on new contracts.

I was talking about the Packers not drafting an impact wide receiver since selecting Adams in 2014.

 

[OldSchool101]

In my opinion Adams putting up those huge numbers despite opponents not having to focus on a lot of talent aside of him is even more impressive than if he was surrounded with a bunch of decent pass catchers.

Ok. Then if that theory holds, Adams should have a nice production increase with the Raiders over his 2021 season with the Packers.

I’ll go opposite. I think Adams 2022 production wanes compared to 2021.