Wahle / Rivera ... FINAL TAKE.

[cheesey]

It doesn't matter now. Wahle IS gone, and it is what it is. Had the Packers squeeked out a few more wins last year, they wouldn't have been in a position to get Hawk. A few more wins would have made the fans happier last year, but would have hurt the draft position. I wasn't happy with 4 wins either, but that was what it was.
We have to go forward, and look at the way the team performs from here on out. Last week they looked like they were getting it together. Hopefully, Monday night it will be even better.
No one KNOWS the future. Had we kept Wahle, maybe he would have got hurt and been done. Who knows? You can't live on what ifs.....it is what it is now.

 

[Zero2Cool]

The decision to not retain Wahle was I guess good for the future, but stupid for the immediate run for the playoffs. Would we have won the SB with Wahle? Not a chance. We still would have lost green, walker, davenport, etc etc eFREAKINtc.

There are benefits in the long run, but its hard to see them for ... some people.

I am disappointed knowing we could havek ept Wahle, but didn't. I don't think Wahle would have made us win more games, I think he would have put us in better position to win those games though.

 

[cheesyscot]

Ok here is the skinny, we had room and this was TT way of ****ING the 05 Pack..... Now I know that is in the past but this man set not only Sherman up to fail he also set Brett and the rest of the team to fail. Now I know ALL of you Sherman hatters will say it all was Shermans fault and most of it was ut remember he was stripped of his GM DUTYS. Now how many times can a guy be fired? Well in GB it looks like twice.... Ok enought of that because it doesn't matter what I or any of us think, TT will do what he wants and that's that. Now I do and always will support the Pack even if I don't agree with the uy running the show. So lets go Pack and kick some *** this year and show ALL of these experts that we still have alittle left in the tank.........

 

[all about da packers]

Now how many times can a guy be fired? Well in GB it looks like twice....

Actually, 3 if you take into account that Sherman was given some "Executive VP" role when he was let go as GM. :wink:

 

[arrowgargantuan]

It doesn't matter now. Wahle IS gone, and it is what it is.

amen brother.

 

[porky88]

Re-signing Wahle would mean we would have him on the roster THIS year and beyond. To me that would be more important than last year. No matter how you look at it, with or without Mike Wahle, the team last year was not making the playoffs. To many injuries with to little depth and poor coaching hurted this team a year ago. Wahle would be nice too have right now with Spitz at RG and Wells at Center but last year, I don't think he makes a huge difference. Maybe we go 5-11 and get Haloti Ngata instead of AJ Hawk.

 

[4packgirl]

you're right cheesey - it's time to move on. on the other hand, this is news we've just found out about from brandt & i think it's ok for people to be upset for a little while.

and no i also don't think we'd have gone to the SB with wahle - that's crazy! do i think wahle was/is good? heck yeah! he coulda been the solid leadership we need right now on the line. but...like cheesey said - it doesn't matter cause he's gone, we've moved on, & let's see what the young 'uns can do this season.

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

What amazes me is that The Sherman haters's on this forum continually bring up his name to have someone to blame for last years failures, yet when it comes to dicussing any TT move, it's time to move on and forget last year.

I agree with cheesy, it is time to move on, FROM EVERYTHING!!!, forget Sherman, forget Wahle, and support The 2006 Green Bay Packers.

I haven't agreed with every move TT has made but this team is what it is, with Brett, DD, Kampman and a few other veterans leading, we will be a lot better then most "experts" are saying, so let's quit arguing over the past and look toward the future and support this team win or lose.

AND DON'T PLAY THE BLAME GAME EVERYTIME SOMETHING DOESN'T GO RIGHT!!!!!

 

[DePack]

Some of you guys are three and four years behind the curve in when to be "worried" about having faith the team is heading in the right direction.

Be thankful something didn't click and have you worried going into '04 when we did NOTHING to imrove this team for the third year in a row but now we had Slowick at the wheel on defense.

THAT was a time for worry.

You can't do so little for so many years in the draft and not replacing lost FA's without it biting you in the ***. Now that there's an influx of players FINALLY coming on board is not the time to worry.

Hard to "worry" warhawk when you are winning 12 games and your division every season. 3 or 4 years ago we probably should have gone to the Super Bowl.

 

[kmac]

It doesn't matter now. Wahle IS gone, and it is what it is. Had the Packers squeeked out a few more wins last year, they wouldn't have been in a position to get Hawk. A few more wins would have made the fans happier last year, but would have hurt the draft position. I wasn't happy with 4 wins either, but that was what it was.
We have to go forward, and look at the way the team performs from here on out. Last week they looked like they were getting it together. Hopefully, Monday night it will be even better.
No one KNOWS the future. Had we kept Wahle, maybe he would have got hurt and been done. Who knows? You can't live on what ifs.....it is what it is now.

But we would have been in a position to draft Kam Wimbley. Watched any of the Browns pre-season games? DAMN! I don't think that Wimbley/Sims/Greenway instead of Hawk would have killed us.

 

[warhawk]

Some of you guys are three and four years behind the curve in when to be "worried" about having faith the team is heading in the right direction.

Be thankful something didn't click and have you worried going into '04 when we did NOTHING to imrove this team for the third year in a row but now we had Slowick at the wheel on defense.

THAT was a time for worry.

You can't do so little for so many years in the draft and not replacing lost FA's without it biting you in the ***. Now that there's an influx of players FINALLY coming on board is not the time to worry.

Hard to "worry" warhawk when you are winning 12 games and your division every season. 3 or 4 years ago we probably should have gone to the Super Bowl.

Which brings up a good point Depack.

The DEFINING year of what direction this team was going was '04. Not '05.

After two consecutive years of having a legitimate run at the SB '04 was the pivitol year. Would we finally get over the top? Make it back to the SB we were so close to the previous two years?

The answer was not just no. It was hell no.

'04 showed how far we had gone in the wrong direction. If it weren't for BF's arm and a division that stunk we win 5 to 7 games tops.

Anyone thinking TT or anybody else brought in was getting a team close to playoff contenders is not living in reality.

We were not a Wahle or a this guy or that guy away and with two million bucks to work with Wahle would have been about ALL that could have been done other than the draft. WOOP DE DO.

Now TT realizes he's jumping into an ocean of issues to address. Not a creek or a pond. The guy makes move after move after move and what do we hear? He should have signed Wahle.

PULEEZ! The guy has brought in more talent and more FOOTBALL players in the last 18 months than we have seen in the previous 48.

But he sucks because Wahle aint here to save the day.

 

[TomAllen]

Warhawk said:

'04 showed how far we had gone in the wrong direction. If it weren't for BF's arm and a division that stunk we win 5 to 7 games tops.

Anyone thinking TT or anybody else brought in was getting a team close to playoff contenders is not living in reality.

Exactly Warhawk, if it wasn't for Brett Favre's arm, the Packers wouldn't have even been close to the playoff's.

So in two years, why didn't TT build a team around that arm so that they could make a SB run this year?

Since your best chance of getting to the SB is Brett Favre, why not build a team around him instead of tearing down your current team (letting your guards go, etc.), and trying to rebuild a new team from scratch. It doesn't make sense.

The Packers weren't that far away in '04 and if TT would have tried to rebuild the team around Favre in '05, in '06 the Pack would have been poised for a SB run.

But he didn't. Why is that? Anyone?

 

[pyledriver80]

Funny how the argument has changed from "we couldn't resign Wahle" to "Wahle wouldn't have made a difference"

I don't know how some of you can have so much faith in TT. All I hear is we have all this talent, but yet according to Warhawk we were not 1 player away from competing last year OR this year. I thought you said this team had "more talent". Once Brett goes we will struggle to compete every year. It's not that I dislike A-Rod but to think he can lead this team like Brett has is probably a pipe dream. Had we re-signed Wahle this team would likely make a playoff run with Brett at the helm. Downplaying the Wahle thing is only a way to give TT a free pass.

 

[warhawk]

TOM ALLEN,

"The Packers weren't that far away in '04". Come on Tom. You know better than that.

In '04 TT had two million bucks and no defense. You know darn well that with those guys on the field we had no chance in the playoffs.

Did '04 show you nothing. Our defense stunk. Bates did wonders with nothing but we still finished way down in the run "D" and you don't win playoff games being that weak there.

Against a good offense with a good QB that "D get's smoked in the playoffs.

What was he supposed to do with two million bucks to "rebuild the team" around BF. ESPECIALLY with only two mill and two good "0" lineman on their way out. I said before with that little cash you can't "build" anything around anybody.

So to answer the question "Why is that?" The answer is simple.

Two million bucks. That's why.

 

[DakotaT]

Warhawk said

'04 showed how far we had gone in the wrong direction. If it weren't for BF's arm and a division that stunk we win 5 to 7 games tops.

Anyone thinking TT or anybody else brought in was getting a team close to playoff contenders is not living in reality.

Exactly Warhawk, if it wasn't for Brett Favre's arm, the Packers wouldn't have even been close to the playoff's.

So in two years, why didn't TT build a team around that arm so that they could make a SB run this year?

Since your best chance of getting to the SB is Brett Favre, why not build a team around him instead of tearing down your current team (letting your guards go, etc.), and trying to rebuild a new team from scratch. It doesn't make sense.

The Packers weren't that far away in '04 and if TT would have tried to rebuild the team around Favre in '05, in '06 the Pack would have been poised for a SB run.

But he didn't. Why is that? Anyone?

Why is it so difficult to understand the financial constraints that the salary cap mandates aroung this forum? Yeah lets sign Wahle and forget about the gaping grand canyon sized hole in the defense, that had been growing yearly because someone was in way over his head. Sherman abused the cap in his tenure, and Wolf before him. TT's first order of business was to clean it up (I have no facts, just a hunch), and it was at the expense of Wahle and Rivera.

Congratulations to the other side: Andrew Brandt said it was possible to sign Wahle, after all he is a capologist, it's his job to circumvent the cap. I apologize for arguing all these months.

Signing Wahle would have been as fiscally responsible as letting an 18 year old working at McDonalds, living without parental help, walk in and and finance a Lexus with $500 down.

 

[Packnic]

they live in pyle land.... there are no cap penalties... just gumdrops and everyteam buys up the best players. and they all win the superbowl everyyear.... thats why its such a special trophy.

 

[DakotaT]

they live in pyle land.... there are no cap penalties... just gumdrops and everyteam buys up the best players. and they all win the superbowl everyyear.... thats why its such a special trophy.

It's funny how some of these guys think we should extend the cap, but we never talk about how teams that do need to cut high priced players every year! When the Redskins win the super bowl (under Snyder), I may subscribe to that line of thinking but until then it's crap.

 

[DePack]

Some of you guys are three and four years behind the curve in when to be "worried" about having faith the team is heading in the right direction.

Be thankful something didn't click and have you worried going into '04 when we did NOTHING to imrove this team for the third year in a row but now we had Slowick at the wheel on defense.

THAT was a time for worry.

You can't do so little for so many years in the draft and not replacing lost FA's without it biting you in the ***. Now that there's an influx of players FINALLY coming on board is not the time to worry.

Hard to "worry" warhawk when you are winning 12 games and your division every season. 3 or 4 years ago we probably should have gone to the Super Bowl.

Which brings up a good point Depack.

The DEFINING year of what direction this team was going was '04. Not '05.

After two consecutive years of having a legitimate run at the SB '04 was the pivitol year. Would we finally get over the top? Make it back to the SB we were so close to the previous two years?

The answer was not just no. It was hell no.

'04 showed how far we had gone in the wrong direction. If it weren't for BF's arm and a division that stunk we win 5 to 7 games tops.

Anyone thinking TT or anybody else brought in was getting a team close to playoff contenders is not living in reality.

We were not a Wahle or a this guy or that guy away and with two million bucks to work with Wahle would have been about ALL that could have been done other than the draft. WOOP DE DO.

Now TT realizes he's jumping into an ocean of issues to address. Not a creek or a pond. The guy makes move after move after move and what do we hear? He should have signed Wahle.

PULEEZ! The guy has brought in more talent and more FOOTBALL players in the last 18 months than we have seen in the previous 48.

But he sucks because Wahle aint here to save the day.

I don't rmember saying TT sucks. We are talking about whether he could have signed Wahle which naturally leads to should he have.

Why do you have to be so defensive toward TT? Do you feel sorry for him because of that blank stare and white hair thing :lol:

The bottomline was there was MUCH debate about whether TT could have signed Wahle. Zero post the definitive article that he could have and now the TT nuttlickers want to go crazy. Call Andrew Brandt and ***** to him about that statement. For the record TT had a seemingly great draft this year. I've said it a hundred times. Whether they all pan out is just a wish.

Last years draft and free agency sucked, so 18 months is a bit much. And since the talent is so much better now than two years ago, we should win more than 10 games right? If not, I'll assume you call for MM and/or TT's ***, right?

 

[pyledriver80]

they live in pyle land.... there are no cap penalties... just gumdrops and everyteam buys up the best players. and they all win the superbowl everyyear.... thats why its such a special trophy.

Again you were proven wrong Packnic. You see not only in Pyle land can you resign proven guards but in real life to!!! What happened to your "it was impossible argument"

If you had any sort of knowledge behind what you were saying I would take it personally, but, as always, you do not. If you would bother to read any of my previous posts I am AGAINST trying to buy a team. In fact, I was against the Woodson move. I didn't want TO brought in, but when you are in danger of having to start 2 rookie guards you do what it takes to sign one. Instead TT chose Boerigter,O'Dwyer,Little,Freeman and Raynoch Thompson and the team went 4-12. Facts are Facts, sorry if you can't deal with them.


It's not only Pyleland where people are upset, its all over GB nation. Go to any other Packer forum and look at the unhappy people with TT. Where as we are split 50/50 here most other forums are about 75% for getting rid of TT's ***. You'll learn in time, young man, you'll learn.

 

[DePack]

I have a question. Could TT have re-signed Mike Wahle?

 

[pyledriver80]

I have a question. Could TT have re-signed Mike Wahle?

Oh no DePack, it was impossible, we were in Cap Hell. TT just said he made a mistake not resigning him because wanted to take responsibility for this teams downfall and not find a scapegoat like Mike Sherman to blame it on. If you think it was possible SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!

 

[DakotaT]

I have a question. Could TT have re-signed Mike Wahle?

According to Mr. Brandt, yes. Now for the last time, at the cost of who's contract, or did Zero drive out of listening range for that part.

 

[DakotaT]

I have a question. Could TT have re-signed Mike Wahle?

Oh no DePack, it was impossible, we were in Cap Hell. TT just said he made a mistake not resigning him because wanted to take responsibility for this teams downfall and not find a scapegoat like Mike Sherman to blame it on. If you think it was possible SHOW ME THE NUMBERS!

You mock #13M over the cap, because that's where our cap was at! All I have ever asked in this argument is for one of you to show me how it was possible with numbers not he said/she said articles.

 

[DakotaT]

Some of you guys are three and four years behind the curve in when to be "worried" about having faith the team is heading in the right direction.

Be thankful something didn't click and have you worried going into '04 when we did NOTHING to imrove this team for the third year in a row but now we had Slowick at the wheel on defense.

THAT was a time for worry.

You can't do so little for so many years in the draft and not replacing lost FA's without it biting you in the ***. Now that there's an influx of players FINALLY coming on board is not the time to worry.

Hard to "worry" warhawk when you are winning 12 games and your division every season. 3 or 4 years ago we probably should have gone to the Super Bowl.

Which brings up a good point Depack.

The DEFINING year of what direction this team was going was '04. Not '05.

After two consecutive years of having a legitimate run at the SB '04 was the pivitol year. Would we finally get over the top? Make it back to the SB we were so close to the previous two years?

The answer was not just no. It was hell no.

'04 showed how far we had gone in the wrong direction. If it weren't for BF's arm and a division that stunk we win 5 to 7 games tops.

Anyone thinking TT or anybody else brought in was getting a team close to playoff contenders is not living in reality.

We were not a Wahle or a this guy or that guy away and with two million bucks to work with Wahle would have been about ALL that could have been done other than the draft. WOOP DE DO.

Now TT realizes he's jumping into an ocean of issues to address. Not a creek or a pond. The guy makes move after move after move and what do we hear? He should have signed Wahle.

PULEEZ! The guy has brought in more talent and more FOOTBALL players in the last 18 months than we have seen in the previous 48.

But he sucks because Wahle aint here to save the day.

I don't rmember saying TT sucks. We are talking about whether he could have signed Wahle which naturally leads to should he have.

Why do you have to be so defensive toward TT? Do you feel sorry for him because of that blank stare and white hair thing :lol:

The bottomline was there was MUCH debate about whether TT could have signed Wahle. Zero post the definitive article that he could have and now the TT nuttlickers want to go crazy. Call Andrew Brandt and ***** to him about that statement. For the record TT had a seemingly great draft this year. I've said it a hundred times. Whether they all pan out is just a wish.

Last years draft and free agency sucked, so 18 months is a bit much. And since the talent is so much better now than two years ago, we should win more than 10 games right? If not, I'll assume you call for MM and/or TT's ***, right?

My god De you throw a lot of tangents into an argument. Are you lawmaker? You know, if your argument doesn't pass, you just attach what you want to another bill?

You're still the man, though! :wink:

 

[Packnic]

I have a question. Could TT have re-signed Mike Wahle?

According to Mr. Brandt, yes. Now for the last time, at the cost of who's contract, or did Zero drive out of listening range for that part.

THEY JUST DONT ****ING LISTEN!!!... its not a matter of if we could have kept him... its about who had to leave to keep him and what could we have brought in, but in pyleland.... you can sign anyone and everyone and as long as you have mike wahle and mike sherman... your good to go... superbowl after super bowl.... pyle your obviously too dense to see that it may have been possible, but at what expense... and finally your never allowed to enjoy the packers success. all you do is hate.... ya ****ing hater.....

mods... feel free to suspend me for 3 days or so.... ill be in vegas and ive always wanted to be suspended from something. and thanks... everyone else enjoy your weekend... and wish me luck