Training Camp 2019 notes

[GleefulGary]

Obviously that's way worse than considering combine results you normally fall in love with but ignore when they don't fit your narrative.

Huh?

I said that combine results are predictive for scouting, but once we have actually NFL game tape that trumps everything.

Obviously for the draft, we don't have NFL game tape. This isn't that hard, Cap.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have wondered about this.

In recent years, I've seen a few guys come out who hit "can't miss" thresholds at the combine-- i.e. numbers that historically have almost always correlated to success. And a number of these guys have failed to translate to the pro game. I'm suspicious that people have figured out how to train and execute the drills so we'll that they aren't as good of an indicator as they used to be.

Yup. It makes sense that with all the years of seeing guys move up the draft boards right after a good combine and then getting drafted earlier than first projected, that training specifically to excel in the combine drills is a smart and potentially profitable thing to do.

I'm also pretty sure that good scouts are aware of this and take it into consideration in handing in their final evaluations, but juicy results from the combine could cloud their judgement.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I have wondered about this.

In recent years, I've seen a few guys come out who hit "can't miss" thresholds at the combine-- i.e. numbers that historically have almost always correlated to success. And a number of these guys have failed to translate to the pro game. I'm suspicious that people have figured out how to train and execute the drills so we'll that they aren't as good of an indicator as they used to be.

The short answer is good athletes don't necessarily make for good NFL football players. The measurements and timings we see in a Combine or Pro Day summary don't necessarily equate to football skills and instincts.

To your point, if these drills directly translated to football skills then you would want guys to train for them, right?

The process begins and ends with scouting, tape and interviews. Combines and Pro Days are an inputs, not answers. Further, it strikes me that the running drills are flawed. They all start at the player's discretion. Why not time them off of a go light to simulate a snap? Why are there three 180 degree turns in a 3-cone drill with two required ground touches, nothing anybody would do on the football football field? What does the radar gun say at the 40 yard mark to measure a WRs or DBs long speed? To what degree is a so-called "field speed" differential really more flawed drills casting off flawed measurables conflicting with the tape?

The drills tell you something, but nowhere near everything you need to know.

Most importantly, there are no opponents in any of these drills stopping a player from getting where he wants to go.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yup. It makes sense that with all the years of seeing guys move up the draft boards right after a good combine and then getting drafted earlier than first projected, that training specifically to excel in the combine drills is a smart and potentially profitable thing to do.

I'm also pretty sure that good scouts are aware of this and take it into consideration in handing in their final evaluations, but juicy results from the combine could cloud their judgement.

I thing the general approach is similar to what Mayock has described when he was a TV analyst. A surprising Combine number, good or bad, takes a scout back to the tape to see what he might have missed.

Besides, draft boards are constructed by media analysts who do not have the resources that a pro scouting department has. A pro scouting department has probably looked at every snap taken over the prior two seasons for every player on their first round board, for example. Do media analysts do that? No. We get highlight tape and don't get to see the bad stuff, and have to rely on what we can gleen skill-wise regardless of the outcome of those splash plays against mostly less than NFL-level competition.

You don't know where a particular team pegged a particular player in the first place before the Combine regardless of what the draft projections say. We see suprises, up and down, that don't have anything to do with a really good or a really bad Combine.

 

[Poppa San]

I thing the general approach is similar to what Mayock has described when he was a TV analyst. A surprising Combine number, good or bad, takes a scout back to the tape to see what he might have missed.

Besides, draft boards are constructed by media analysts who do not have the resources that a pro scouting department has. A pro scouting department has probably looked at every snap taken over the prior two seasons for every player on their first round board, for example. Do media analysts do that? No. We get highlight tape and don't get to see the bad stuff, and have to rely on what we can gleen skill-wise regardless of the outcome of those splash plays against mostly less than NFL-level competition.

You don't know where a particular team pegged a particular player in the first place before the Combine regardless of what the draft projections say. We see suprises, up and down, that don't have anything to do with a really good or a really bad Combine.

I was sort of thinking these same things. When do teams draft boards become common knowledge so we know where and when in the process they had all 1000+ players slotted?

 

[El Guapo]

The scouting staff has usually also seen many of the players play in person, they've talked to the coaches, done the one-on-one interviews, and much more background work than the guys on tv. The tv guys also base their projections on player abilities and perceived best fits for each team. However, most teams have different assessments of their teams' needs than fans or tv analysts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I completely understand why Allison seems like a better fit outside, but the fact is that 44% of his receptions to this point in his career have come out of the slot, according to this.

So if he's been successful in that role at this level and the coaching staff likes him there, I don't understand why we should dismiss the idea over workout metrics from three years ago.

That means Allison has a total of 24 receptions while lining up in the slot over the past three years. In my opinion that's not a large enough sample size to not be worried about his lack of agility when thinking about playing him there for the majority of snaps.

It's not inconsistent to value combine metrics more during the pre draft process and less after a guy has played actual NFL football for two seasons.

I agree with this take but with Allison having lined up on the perimeter for the majority of his snaps he hasn't been able to refute the concerns about him not being agil enough to be the team's primary slot receiver.

I said that combine results are predictive for scouting, but once we have actually NFL game tape that trumps everything.

Obviously for the draft, we don't have NFL game tape. This isn't that hard, Cap.

Unfortunately the Packers don't have a ton of game tape with Allison lining up in the slot.

 

[Dantés]

That means Allison has a total of 24 receptions while lining up in the slot over the past three years. In my opinion that's not a large enough sample size to not be worried about his lack of agility when thinking about playing him there for the majority of snaps.



I agree with this take but with Allison having lined up on the perimeter for the majority of his snaps he hasn't been able to refute the concerns about him not being agil enough to be the team's primary slot receiver.



Unfortunately the Packers don't have a ton of game tape with Allison lining up in the slot.

I guess we just have a different confidence level in this move.

 

[sschind]

Jamison Crowder: 14th%

Jarvis Landry: 0th%

Don't know why but just the way you wrote 0th made me smile. Why not 0nd or 0rd.

Three guys, Bob, Bill and Aloysius were tasked with coming up with names for all the numbers. They had a meeting to discuss it and I imagine it went something like this

Bob: I call this meeting to order. I propose we skip the reading of the minutes of the last meeting and old business and move right on to the new business of naming these numbers.

Bill: I also

Bob: The proposal has been alsoed. All in favor say Aye

Bob: Aye

Bill: Aye

Aloysius: Aye

Bob" All opposed say Nay

silence

Bob: Motion carries lets get on with it.

Bob: OK, we have #1 what are we going to call that one.

Bill: I got it, we will call that the FIRST one

Bob: First, I like it. Its kinda long though we have to shorten it somehow.

Aloysius How about 1st.

Bob: 1st, wonderful, I love it.

Bill: OK, how about #2, what are we going to call that

Bob: #2... I kinda like SECOND.

Bill: That's good, ok now for its shortened name

Aloysius: How about 2nd

Bill: Good one...You're really good at this Al

Aloyisius: Thanks Bill.

Bob: Now #3

Alysius: I was thinking THIRD and we could shorten it to 3rd.

Bill: Now we are cooking. This is easy, we will have this done in no time.

Bob: On to #4

Aloysius: huh... lets see fournd no...fourd... no Henry would never go for that...

Bill: I got it...FOURTH shortened to...??? 4th.

Bob: Perfect ... you want a to take a break or keep going?

Aloysius, We're on a roll lets keep going

Bob: OK #5

Bill: 5...hmmm... That's spelled F I V E right? Fivend...fiverd... I got it FIVETH

Aloysius: fiveth, FIVEth ...close but it doesn't quite roll of the tongue.

Bill: FIFTH?

Aloysius: I like that... Bob, what do you think?

Bob: That's a good one And I suppose we could go with 5th on that one.

Bill: Why not

Aloyisius: I got no problem with that.

Bill: OK, getting a little tougher...#6

-silence for several seconds then Aloysius very tentatively " SIXTH???

-More silence then Bill: soooo then 6th??

Bob: Perfect SIXTH it is. #7

They think for a bit then they all look at each other and in unison: SEVENTH

Bob: Hey, I just remembered I have to stop and pick up the dry cleaning on the way home. What do you say we just whip the rest of them out like this and call it a day?

Bill: Sounds good to me I have a Tee time in 45 minutes anyway.

Aloyisius: Its settled then.. We'll just put TH after the rest of them.

Bob: Great job gentlemen. What say we meet back here at the same time on Thursday and we will tackle them pesky letters.

Bill: That should be a piece of cake...there are only 26 of them.

Bob: Meeting adjourned.

As they are leaving the room

Bill: You know Bob...back there at the beginning of the meeting when you suggested we skip the minutes and move on to the new business? and I alsoed.

Bob: Yeah, what about it

Bill: Well I was just thinking. Alsoed is a stupid word. What if we were to just say "I second that"

Bob: Not a bad Idea Bill. Lets bring it up at the next meeting.

 

[gbgary]

Don't know why but just the way you wrote 0th made me smile. Why not 0nd or 0rd.

Three guys, Bob, Bill and Aloysius were tasked with coming up with names for all the numbers. They had a meeting to discuss it and I imagine it went something like this

Bob: I call this meeting to order. I propose we skip the reading of the minutes of the last meeting and old business and move right on to the new business of naming these numbers.

Bill: I also

Bob: The proposal has been alsoed. All in favor say Aye

Bob: Aye

Bill: Aye

Aloysius: Aye

Bob" All opposed say Nay

silence

Bob: Motion carries lets get on with it.

Bob: OK, we have #1 what are we going to call that one.

Bill: I got it, we will call that the FIRST one

Bob: First, I like it. Its kinda long though we have to shorten it somehow.

Aloysius How about 1st.

Bob: 1st, wonderful, I love it.

Bill: OK, how about #2, what are we going to call that

Bob: #2... I kinda like SECOND.

Bill: That's good, ok now for its shortened name

Aloysius: How about 2nd

Bill: Good one...You're really good at this Al

Aloyisius: Thanks Bill.

Bob: Now #3

Alysius: I was thinking THIRD and we could shorten it to 3rd.

Bill: Now we are cooking. This is easy, we will have this done in no time.

Bob: On to #4

Aloysius: huh... lets see fournd no...fourd... no Henry would never go for that...

Bill: I got it...FOURTH shortened to...??? 4th.

Bob: Perfect ... you want a to take a break or keep going?

Aloysius, We're on a roll lets keep going

Bob: OK #5

Bill: 5...hmmm... That's spelled F I V E right? Fivend...fiverd... I got it FIVETH

Aloysius: fiveth, FIVEth ...close but it doesn't quite roll of the tongue.

Bill: FIFTH?

Aloysius: I like that... Bob, what do you think?

Bob: That's a good one And I suppose we could go with 5th on that one.

Bill: Why not

Aloyisius: I got no problem with that.

Bill: OK, getting a little tougher...#6

-silence for several seconds then Aloysius very tentatively " SIXTH???

-More silence then Bill: soooo then 6th??

Bob: Perfect SIXTH it is. #7

They think for a bit then they all look at each other and in unison: SEVENTH

Bob: Hey, I just remembered I have to stop and pick up the dry cleaning on the way home. What do you say we just whip the rest of them out like this and call it a day?

Bill: Sounds good to me I have a Tee time in 45 minutes anyway.

Aloyisius: Its settled then.. We'll just put TH after the rest of them.

Bob: Great job gentlemen. What say we meet back here at the same time on Thursday and we will tackle them pesky letters.

Bill: That should be a piece of cake...there are only 26 of them.

Bob: Meeting adjourned.

As they are leaving the room

Bill: You know Bob...back there at the beginning of the meeting when you suggested we skip the minutes and move on to the new business? and I alsoed.

Bob: Yeah, what about it

Bill: Well I was just thinking. Alsoed is a stupid word. What if we were to just say "I second that"

Bob: Not a bad Idea Bill. Lets bring it up at the next meeting.

was this stolen from a monty python skit? lol
it's certainly python worthy.

 

[gbgary]

the great gute just smacked his way through a presser and tried to justify the signing of another fb and also insinuated burks may be back sooner than expected.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

was this stolen from a monty python skit? lol
it's certainly python worthy.

Probably no longer "PC" to say this, but this is one of my favorite MP skits.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[gbgary]

Probably no longer "PC" to say this, but this is one of my favorite MP skits.

greatness!

 

[sschind]

was this stolen from a monty python skit? lol
it's certainly python worthy.

Totally original and I thank you for the compliment

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Totally original and I thank you for the compliment

You've got potential! But don't quit your day job just yet.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Things just don't get any easier for J'Mon Moore in Green Bay. He was in an accident that could have done a lot more damage to J'Mon, but he appears to be fine.

https://www.12up.com/posts/video-pa...scaping-scary-car-wreck-unharmed-01djekqxgrge

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Some good stuff from Packers DC, OC and Special Teams Coach.

https://www.packers.com/news/switch-to-sideline-gives-pettine-best-of-both-worlds

Pettine talks about:

• Tackling
• Bolton
• Gary
• Coaching from the sideline VS Press Box
• Tony Brown
• DB's breaking up more passes
• Ball awareness better
• Savage
• Ibraheim Campbell

Hackett:

• Getting Rodgers Ready
• Lazard's improvement
• Shephard
• Kizer Ball security
• Jenkins pushing for a starting spot
• Jones impact on the offense

Mennenga:

• Shephard's ability to return
• Crosby
• Bolton
• Kumerow

 

[gbgary]

Things just don't get any easier for J'Mon Moore in Green Bay. He was in an accident that could have done a lot more damage to J'Mon, but he appears to be fine.

https://www.12up.com/posts/video-pa...scaping-scary-car-wreck-unharmed-01djekqxgrge

pretty good accident but i had to roll my eyes at the "lucky to be alive" line.

 

[HardRightEdge]

pretty good accident but i had to roll my eyes at the "lucky to be alive" line.

I'm rolling my eyes at "absolutely totaled". The air bags didn't pop and the wheel and tire are intact which tells you it was a low speed affair or a glancing blow where the truck did not get into the frame or motor. It might be as much as $15,000 in damage assuming a left suspension rebuild, OEM parts and Klaus in the paint room.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm rolling my eyes at "absolutely totaled". The air bags didn't pop and the wheel and tire are intact which tells you it was a low speed affair or a glancing blow where the truck did not get into the frame or motor. It might be as much as $15,000 in damage assuming a left suspension rebuild, OEM parts and Klaus in the paint room.

$15,000? It's a Mercedes, that will barely get him a new hood emblem The truck appears to have sustained a lot more damage.

If J'Mon were smart, he would just use the insurance loaner, until he figures out where he is going to be after cut downs. Unless the Packers can slide him to their PS, I don't think it will be in Green Bay.

 

[HardRightEdge]

$15,000? It's a Mercedes, that will barely get him a new hood emblem The truck appears to have sustained a lot more damage.

If J'Mon were smart, he would just use the insurance loaner, until he figures out where he is going to be after cut downs. Unless the Packers can slide him to their PS, I don't think it will be in Green Bay.

It ain't that bad, $2,000 for the door, $1,500 apiece for hood, bumper, fender and go from there. The headlight is another matter. That could be $2,000.

That truck is barely injured, maybe a two week hamstring. Seriously, the way vehicles are build today you don't have to be going very fast to do that kind of front end damage. Front ends these days are designed to crumple back to the firewall. If he blew his air bags he might get totaled.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It ain't that bad, $2,000 for the door, $1,500 apiece for hood, bumper, fender and go from there. The headlight is another matter. That could be $2,000.

That truck is barely injured, maybe a two week hamstring. Seriously, the way vehicles are build today you don't have to be going very fast to do that kind of front end damage. Front ends these days are designed to crumple back to the firewall. If he blew his air bags he might get totaled.

Yup. I have a friend who was driving a new $30K Prius, barely got hit from the side by a 64 Chrysler New Yorker. The Prius was declared totaled due to the firewall being compromised, the Chrysler, barely looked like it had hit a squirrel.

Reminds me a bit of the NFL today. Guys are getting bigger, faster and stronger, while the equipment worn might be safer, the collisions are doing some damage.

 

[Poppa San]

How do both vehicles suffer left side damage unless someone pulled out in front of the other? The truck probably blew the air bags.
The guy can't catch a ball, can't catch a break. He probably can't catch a cold or virus either.

 

[Mondio]

vehicles are cheap to fix compared to the people inside. better to have them crumple like a tin can and have the people walk away uninjured. any serious injury to 1 occupant will exceed the cost of that vehicle a couple times over.

 

[HardRightEdge]

How do both vehicles suffer left side damage unless someone pulled out in front of the other? The truck probably blew the air bags.

Or it might have been one or the other crossing the centerline with a glancing blow. If that was the case, narrowly avoiding a head-on would put the fear (or love) of God in you. Not that it's news to anybody but there is a pandemic of distracted driving.

vehicles are cheap to fix compared to the people inside. better to have them crumple like a tin can and have the people walk away uninjured. any serious injury to 1 occupant will exceed the cost of that vehicle a couple times over.

Yes, it's a collusion between Congress, the deep state NHTSA and the evil insurance companies to protect us from our own carelessness, that of others, or even a patch of black ice. Not dying is an impingement on my American liberties.