Training camp 2017 notes and observations.

[Dantés]

I'm not sure whether you're underestimating the value of a first round pick (Thompson/Capers seem to have lowered the bar) or overestimating Lowry's value. Clark should be getting about a 60% snap count in year 2 (Daniels logged 64% last season, for example) if he's living up to his draft status. You would expect a guy who can play run and rush the passer out of the first round.

Lowry is a rotational guy.

I think 60+ for Clark is totally reasonable, taking over the bulk of Guion's stats. But I would not be surprised if Lowry was in the 50-60% range.

Obviously as it's my own estimation, I don't think I'm overestimating Lowry, but I do like him quite a bit. He's a really athletic dude. His numbers were really strong across the board at the combine for a 6'6" 300# DL. He also flashed as a rookie.

Given that he's come out in camp as the 3rd "starter" on the DL when they go 3-4 base, as well as getting heavy work next to Daniels or Clark in the nickel, I would say that he's off to a good start towards playing a substantial role. He also offers some ability to play as a jumbo edge in even front looks.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

So where is today's training camp reports? I'm depending on you guys to tell me what's going on.

 

[Dantés]

So where is today's training camp reports? I'm depending on you guys to tell me what's going on.

Other Twitter gleanings:

• Montgomery struggled in pass pro. This is a concern area for him. Evidently looked good running the ball.
• Sandland coughed up a fumble-- if there's much of that going on, Rodgers will be safe.
• New OL additions, Evans and Amichia, impressed in pass pro drills.
• Clark and Lowry got a look as the starting interior duo.
• King stayed with the 1st team on the outside, but Rollins got a look with the starters in the slot.
• Jones and Thomas made some impressive plays against the run.

This is what I got.

 

[AmishMafia]

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#59 The man to watch! Looked him up. Not an impressive athlete. But he performed very aggressively and athletically in the drills. Of course you have to see how he does in pads before I get too excited.

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Biegel did not look heavy to me.

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I don't think Biegel put on 25 lbs but I see someone else did.

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Clark looked good. Serious and focused

 

[Reese2017]

Watched today pads on why are they pushing price out if u also watched tell me why

 

[AmishMafia]

Pictures are from Friday. Wasn't out there today. Did not see anything of note with Price. So much going on, at all times, you can't see it all.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think 60+ for Clark is totally reasonable, taking over the bulk of Guion's stats. But I would not be surprised if Lowry was in the 50-60% range.

Obviously as it's my own estimation, I don't think I'm overestimating Lowry, but I do like him quite a bit. He's a really athletic dude. His numbers were really strong across the board at the combine for a 6'6" 300# DL. He also flashed as a rookie.

Given that he's come out in camp as the 3rd "starter" on the DL when they go 3-4 base, as well as getting heavy work next to Daniels or Clark in the nickel, I would say that he's off to a good start towards playing a substantial role. He also offers some ability to play as a jumbo edge in even front looks.

The Packers run 80% nickel/dime with at most 2 DL. The Packers have known to use 1 DL on occasion; 4 on the goal line; call that a wash. There's little reason to think that formula will change. Consequently,

3 DL x 20% = 60% + 2DL x 80% = 160% = total DL snap count = 220%.

If Daniels, Clark and Lowery were all to draw 60% snap counts that leaves 40% to be split between Francois and the #5, presumably Adams assuming he's not the latest victim in the rash of Green Bay disabling foot injuries.

Frankly, I see Lowry as the 4th. option, not surpassing Francois' snap count and possibly not Adams.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Got to remember Clark was a project player. In that he was only 20 years old last year...

He's 21 now with a year of experience, pro training and the pro training table. He's now ahead of a first round rookie. Playing D-LIne is not rocket science.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers run 80% nickel/dime with at most 2 DL. The Packers have known to use 1 DL on occasion; 4 on the goal line; call that a wash. There's little reason to think that formula will change. Consequently,

3 DL x 20% = 60% + 2DL x 80% = 160% = total DL snap count = 220%.

If Daniels, Clark and Lowery were all to draw 60% snap counts that leaves 40% to be split between Francois and the #5, presumably Adams assuming he's not the latest victim in the rash of Green Bay disabling foot injuries.

Frankly, I see Lowry as the 4th. option, not surpassing Francois' snap count and possibly not Adams.

Yes, I am with you and agree with your thinking right up until the part about Lowry being the 4th. That clearly isn't the case to this point.

When everyone is healthy, I think it will roughly break down along these lines:

-Daniels, 65
-Clark, 60
-Lowry, 55
-Jean-Francois, 25
-Adams, 15

Now given injuries, that's not how the season totals are likely to play out. But I could see that being the ideal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Got to remember Clark was a project player. In that he was only 20 years old last year...

and......a first round pick...which tend to be projects in GB that either fall off the tree before ripening, or take a few years to ripen.

 

[HardRightEdge]

#59 The man to watch! Looked him up. Not an impressive athlete. But he performed very aggressively and athletically in the drills. Of course you have to see how he does in pads before I get too excited.

#59's athleticism is suspect as you say:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=124017&draftyear=2017&genpos=DE

Yeah, helmets, shells and underwear are not much of a test. Even padded practices may not tell you than much. Vets secure in their positions are going to be saving it for the money games. At least in preseason guys trying to make their bones are playing against other guys fighting for starting positions, snaps or a roster spot.

Biegel did not look heavy to me. I don't think Biegel put on 25 lbs but I see someone else did.

In that picture Biegel looks a shade narrower in the upper body than Perry. Perry weighed 271 lbs. at the Combine, bulking up to sell himself as a 4-3 DE. The Packers list him a 265 which looks about right. Biegel might go 250 - 255 judging from that picture. In that other picture that's Dom saying, "I need more #1 draft picks." McCarthy is annoyed and not listening.

Clark looked good. Serious and focused.

Let's hope so.

 

[Passepartout]

Yeah hope Clark will look good from T.C. to the regular season!

 

[longtimefan]

Let me clarify..

I see his relative everyday at work...2 weeks ago I asked how Vince was, he showed me a pic of Vince still in walking boot at a family picnic with my co worker..

I didnt ask when the pic was taken..This person then told me he gained 25 pounds.. and how it was 100K for surgery, and etc...I mentioned how Clay was accused of roids..Was it possible Vince was on same program and his relative agreed it could have been..

I ddint ask when did he gain it,or did he lose it? Was it all muscle, or gained from being in cast and walking boot?

We talked about he will lose it now that TC is here..So it may have been from down time from surgery and the supplements they had him on..

When was this picture taken? I have an idea.. I think he is heavier looking..

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Just because I said he gained 25 pounds and doesnt look like he did, doesn't mean I am wrong, or telling lies....I am trying to give tid bits I hear from a relative.

Believe new paper articles of other players that had the same surgery ( or have they?) I will post when I hear things...

 

[ChesterfieldCheesehead]

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I saw a picture from today of Michael Clark the HUGE receiver out of Marshall I think making what looked to be a pretty sweet catch over I think damarious Randall I may be wrong trying to tell numbers is hard. Anyone see this live?? At second look not Randall not sure who but here it is..

 

[mongoosev]

saw two videos of second day of training camp on youtube. video was shaky and kinda gave you motion sickness but you can see some clips of the rookies king and dupre, along with some drills and scrimmage.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They can make it appear that way all they want but "best personnel" speaks otherwise. I personally like Jordy in the slot more kind of like Zona uses Fitz. Jordy, Bennett, Kendricks all inside will be a handful for any opponent along with Monty motioning out who is a bigger Cobb. Then you have more speed with T.Davis outside and a nice posession guy with Adams when he is playing well with Allison backing those two up.

I just don't see where Cobb gets a bunch of snaps. Plus Cobb gets nicked up a lot. Unless someone else gets hurt i just don't see Cobb having a big season.

While Nelson has been successful when lining up in the slot he will most likely play on the outside for the majority of the snaps. Cobb is definitely the best slot receiver on the roster and I expect him to receive extended playing time this season.

It would not surprise me one bit if King was the starter on Game Day One against the Hawks.

I fully expect King to start in week 1 but he will probably have to work through some growing pains early this season.

If they plan to use their two TE acquisitions at the same time, someone at WR is going to give up some snaps.

I don't believe the offense will use two tight ends as often as a lot of posters here seem to.

Clark will be another first round disappointment if he doesn't take significantly more snaps than Lowry.

Clark significantly improved late last season. If he continues to develop at that pace there's no reason to be worried about him ending up being another first round disappointment.

I think 60+ for Clark is totally reasonable, taking over the bulk of Guion's stats. But I would not be surprised if Lowry was in the 50-60% range.

In my opinion it would be surprising if Lowry plays close to 60% of the snaps. It's reasonable to think that Jean Francois receives more playing time in the base formation with Lowry getting situational snaps rushing the passer.

The Packers run 80% nickel/dime with at most 2 DL. The Packers have known to use 1 DL on occasion; 4 on the goal line; call that a wash. There's little reason to think that formula will change. Consequently,

3 DL x 20% = 60% + 2DL x 80% = 160% = total DL snap count = 220%.

Actually defensive linemen only accounted for a combined 173.9% of the snaps last season, although one has to consider that Peppers and Jones moved inside on passing downs.

 

[easyk83]

Let me clarify..

I see his relative everyday at work...2 weeks ago I asked how Vince was, he showed me a pic of Vince still in walking boot at a family picnic with my co worker..

I didnt ask when the pic was taken..This person then told me he gained 25 pounds.. and how it was 100K for surgery, and etc...I mentioned how Clay was accused of roids..Was it possible Vince was on same program and his relative agreed it could have been..

I ddint ask when did he gain it,or did he lose it? Was it all muscle, or gained from being in cast and walking boot?

We talked about he will lose it now that TC is here..So it may have been from down time from surgery and the supplements they had him on..

When was this picture taken? I have an idea.. I think he is heavier looking..

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Just because I said he gained 25 pounds and doesnt look like he did, doesn't mean I am wrong, or telling lies....I am trying to give tid bits I hear from a relative.

Believe new paper articles of other players that had the same surgery ( or have they?) I will post when I hear things...

If he gained 25 pounds, that's a terrible sign. Perhaps he's just over 250 now?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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I saw a picture from today of Michael Clark the HUGE receiver out of Marshall I think making what looked to be a pretty sweet catch over I think damarious Randall I may be wrong trying to tell numbers is hard. Anyone see this live?? At second look not Randall not sure who but here it is..

Whoever was defending Clark (name ends in "s", possibly Rollins, Evans, Hawkins, Jones, Holmes) it probably would not have mattered, at 6' 6" Clark presents a tall big target, that perfect pass and catch would have been hard to defend. Would LOVE seeing Clark keep getting better and possibly be the big surprise to make the 53. Can't imagine what kind of matchup nightmares he could create.

 

[Mondio]

At least you narrowed it down

 

[Dantés]

I don't believe the offense will use two tight ends as often as a lot of posters here seem to.

In my opinion it would be surprising if Lowry plays close to 60% of the snaps. It's reasonable to think that Jean Francois receives more playing time in the base formation with Lowry getting situational snaps rushing the passer.

Actually defensive linemen only accounted for a combined 173.9% of the snaps last season, although one has to consider that Peppers and Jones moved inside on passing downs.

I don't know how much people are expecting 12 personnel, but even if it's a modest increase that would likely mean reduced snaps for Cobb.

Obviously things are subject to change, but right now Lowry is playing as the first team DE across from Daniels in the base, and has also run with the first team in some nickel looks. So the early indications are that he's ahead of RJF in both formations.

I'd expect DL to account for more snaps this season with the development of Lowry and the additions of Jean-Francois and Adams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

At least you narrowed it down

I was going to say "it was definitely a Packer player defending him"

I never really looked at Clark, but I am going to be keeping a close eye on him during the preseason. Randy Moss was a Marshall graduate and this guy at 6' 6" can go up and catch the ball!

No doubt a project, with only one year of college football under his belt. Get him on that PS, in the weight room and see what you can do with him. Having Aaron Rodgers eventually throwing to him, might be the incentive he needs to stick with the Packers.

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[longtimefan]

I have known for years that things you see in print isnt always the WHOLE truth.. in generalities it is accurate, but fine details are left out.

If he gained 25 pounds, that's a terrible sign. Perhaps he's just over 250 now?

Again, I dont know if it is fat from not working out after surgery..I dont know if it was body muscle..I dont know if it was the supplements and weight training.

I just know the person said he is on supplements and has gained 25 pounds..That was the exact quote.

 

[easyk83]

I have known for years that things you see in print isnt always the WHOLE truth.. in generalities it is accurate, but fine details are left out.


Again, I dont know if it is fat from not working out after surgery..I dont know if it was body muscle..I dont know if it was the supplements and weight training.

I just know the person said he is on supplements and has gained 25 pounds..That was the exact quote.

Are they going to move him to the Dline? I'm going to hope that this is second hand material(garbled in transition) and that Biegel really just went from 246 to 250-255. That the coaching staff could have overseen a transition in which he adds 25 pounds of good weight from may until now seems far fetched and Vince doesn't strike me as the type to eat himself that far out of shape after a surgery.

 

[longtimefan]

Are they going to move him to the Dline? I'm going to hope that this is second hand material(garbled in transition) and that Biegel really just went from 246 to 250-255. That the coaching staff could have overseen a transition in which he adds 25 pounds of good weight from may until now seems far fetched and Vince doesn't strike me as the type to eat himself that far out of shape after a surgery.

I don't think it was garbled...Let me give exact convo again

I said, how's Vince..

Answer.. He is out of the boot, hey look at this picture of he and I..Then he shows me a picture at a picnic from July 4th ...

I asked will he be at TC..

Answer--yeah, he is there..They have him on supplements, they have him on a strict routine with food and training..The surgery cost the PAckers 100K..Used stem cell and bone marrow, and he gained 25 pounds. .

I said , he will lose it now that TC is starting..He agreed that he would lose it in TC...

I asked, maybe thats why Clay was accused of roids, supplements and what the packers have him doing in offseason--Answer, it could be.

I asked is he excited to get going..

Answer he is itching to start and should be good to go when they start..But may hold him back 2 weeks.

Again, I dont know if the 25 pounds was at July 4th, or now..Dont know if from no exercise, or from muscle...Vince may have told my co worker on July 4th ...I gained 25 pounds during all this.

so looking back on it..July 4th may have been when he was 25 pounds heavier. I believe he told me boot came off the week of the 10th....If that is true, he had close to 3 weeks to lose the 25 pounds.

 

[Carl]

Clark will be another first round disappointment if he doesn't take significantly more snaps than Lowry.

Or that could just mean that Lowry has gotten really good.