Trade Theory

[Heyjoe4]

You conveniently ignore what happened to Jennings and JJ and they both played for other teams and dwindled the second they left.
JJ came back to GB and voila.. his numbers rise .. again?
How does that happen #12 that’s how

What is the average amount (only mediocre average here) of Day 1 draft and FA signings each NFL team has had at WR since 2008?? If you can’t access that, just give us a guess

How many Day1 draft picks or Day1 FA contracts have went to the WR since Rodgers officially started in 2008? (Do not include Sammy Watkins as hasn’t played yet).

Ignore the fight you seem to be in with Cap for a minute.

You might have an argument that Jennings was an average talent, elevated by playing in GB. But below average? I don't even like Jennings, but I wouldn't call him a below average receiver.

As for Nelson, Cobb, and Adams - it's crazy to call them below average. I think all players have excelled in GB given great GMs and great HCs (OK, MM sucked his last three years) and great talent, especially at QB.

Anyway, Jennings aside, how do you consider these other guys below average WRs?

 

[Mondio]

Jones had more catches, about the same TDs and less yards, mostly because he was playing with Carr in his rookie or 2nd season I think as a Raider than he did before he left.

He had less catches and more yards when he came back, indicative of a QB that doesn't have to play as safe.

 

[OldSchool101]

Ignore the fight you seem to be in with Cap for a minute.

You might have an argument that Jennings was an average talent, elevated by playing in GB. But below average? I don't even like Jennings, but I wouldn't call him a below average receiver.

As for Nelson, Cobb, and Adams - it's crazy to call them below average. I think all players have excelled in GB given great GMs and great HCs (OK, MM sucked his last three years) and great talent, especially at QB.

Anyway, Jennings aside, how do you consider these other guys below average WRs?

I usually don’t respond to posts or things I never said? But here we go Captain claimed I did, but show me where I said that those guys are below average talent?

Never said this.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Just adding that the Vikings traded for Reagor; cost a 7th next year and conditional 4th the year after. I think Gute kept Toure because he thinkgs he's better than the first round receivers were in the past couple of drafts

 

[Heyjoe4]

I usually don’t respond to posts or things I never said? But here we go Captain claimed I did, but show me where I said that those guys are below average talent?

Never said this.

Here's the whole paragraph you wrote, I bolded the relevant text:

"If the QB is the Queen of the Chessboard. Then #12 is a Queen with Rook + Horse powers as a plus. #12 can get out of nearly any predicament. He’s had relatively below average resources overall Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Adams were all bi-products of a Offense with superior OL coaching and a Receiver friendly system with a Master Technician at the helm. #12 and his expectations and stubbornness (as much as we may tease him) makes it all function like a well oiled machine."

I don't think you meant to say these guys were below average, but it doesn't read that way. Hey we all get our grammar a little out of whack now and then. I would like to know what you meant. It's just not clear.

 

[OldSchool101]

Here's the whole paragraph you wrote, I bolded the relevant text:

"If the QB is the Queen of the Chessboard. Then #12 is a Queen with Rook + Horse powers as a plus. #12 can get out of nearly any predicament. He’s had relatively below average resources overall Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Adams were all bi-products of a Offense with superior OL coaching and a Receiver friendly system with a Master Technician at the helm. #12 and his expectations and stubbornness (as much as we may tease him) makes it all function like a well oiled machine."

I don't think you meant to say these guys were below average, but it doesn't read that way. Hey we all get our grammar a little out of whack now and then. I would like to know what you meant. It's just not clear.

My apologies I can see where we went wrong.
Resources is a hang up because it might’ve looked like I was disrespecting those players performance (the eventual outcome of the players stats etc) Which I didn’t intend it that way at all. I think those guys are great players.

I meant the FULL array of resources by its definition. Total Assets involved. The collateral in money and draft resources to get those players to begin with. Draft picks/Capital etc.
I didn’t mean infer the outcome of the resources was bad, just that we didn’t focus enough at getting Rodgers Assets.

The fact those guys performed so well speaks to how good #12 is. Imagine those guys with Gared Goff etc.. does that make more sense?

 

[PackerDNA]

Just adding that the Vikings traded for Reagor; cost a 7th next year and conditional 4th the year after. I think Gute kept Toure because he thinkgs he's better than the first round receivers were in the past couple of drafts

As long as we don't hear they were in the discussion again.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My apologies.
Draft resources, Not performance resources.

No need to apologize. The words just got a little mangled. It happens to everyone.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Just adding that the Vikings traded for Reagor; cost a 7th next year and conditional 4th the year after. I think Gute kept Toure because he thinkgs he's better than the first round receivers were in the past couple of drafts

Yep and I think Gluten is right. And when he's dealing with a largely unproven group of guys, or guys making a comeback (Watkins, maybe Cobb) he was right to keep Toure.

 

[sschind]

Speaking of Rooks!
There I fixed it for you

Do you agree. Is he going to elevate these Receivers?

Or in your estimation are we more likely to spiral out of control and crash landing?

I think Rodgers is capable of making any receiver look better. Can he make a true #1 out of this bunch? Its possible. I think Lazard has the ability though I think by the end of the season it will likely be one of the Wat boys. Thats Wat, as in kins or son. Not Watt as in the letter brothers.

This group without Aaron Rodgers would have me far more concerned and as others have noted the presence of Dillon and Jones should help to take the pressure off the WRs a bit.

I also don't expect a lot of help from the TEs. I don't think any of them are anything special and the group will be as good as Rodgers makes them.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

As long as we don't hear they were in the discussion again.

Oh, it’s been reported.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yep and I think Gluten is right. And when he's dealing with a largely unproven group of guys, or guys making a comeback (Watkins, maybe Cobb) he was right to keep Toure.

Sure. Receiver who has shown production in the NFL with enough upside to go in the first round vs a 7th round rookie. You’d have to be insane to prefer the former over the latter!

 

[Mondio]

I’m surprised the Eagles got anything for him with how he’s looked everytime I saw him the past 2 years. Getting a 4th is a huge win for them

 

[longtimefan]

Thanks Poppa. Brings back memories, not very good ones. I loved the Adams pick but seriously questioned it his first two seasons. Glad I was wrong. I watched the game when Nelson tore his ACL. I'm pretty sure it was on artificial turf and looked like a normal jump and landing. That's why I hate artificial turf. It's like velcro and holds the foot in place too long.

And I remember it as the season after the disastrous NFCCG against the Hags.

Not pleasant times in GB.

Nelson was pre season..non contact

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Can you elaborate on the 2015 season? I don't recall who Rodgers was throwing to.

And yeah Rodgers makes WRs look better than they are, but that has a ceiling. Any pass play is still a combination of QB and WR skill. If the WR runs the wrong route, or simply drops an otherwise great pass, well there's nothing Rodgers can do about that when it happens.

I'm not disputing that Rodgers makes WRs look good, only that it has a limit. The reverse holds true as well. Sometimes it's the WR making the QB look good.

Exactly, the 2015 season should work as cautionary tale for fans believing Rodgers can perform at an elite level with subpar pass catchers. He had his worst season based on passer rating, coming of winning the MVP the previous year.

I watched the game when Nelson tore his ACL. I'm pretty sure it was on artificial turf and looked like a normal jump and landing. That's why I hate artificial turf. It's like velcro and holds the foot in place too long.

Nelson's injury happened during a preseason game at Pittsburgh. Heinz Field actually has natural grass though.

The Patriots changed the makeup of their WRs and TEs for years, and other changes as well. The one constant was Tom Brady. They won six SBs. So I agree. No whining allowed!

Another constant with the Patriots was a top scoring defense for nearly all of the seasons Brady played there.

What is the average amount (only mediocre average here) of Day 1 draft and FA or trade signings each NFL team has had at WR since 2008?? If you can’t access that, just give us a guess

How many Day1 draft picks or Day1 FA or Day1 Trade WR contracts have went specifically to the Packers with WR since Rodgers officially started in 2008? (We can’t include Sammy Watkins as he hasn’t played yet). Remember please use Day 1 only

Probably easier to list the teams with just the top resources fed at WR and bottoms dweller resources fed at WR since 2008. I’m going to hazard a guess and say the Packers are either 32/32 or very near that. But you are excellent at stats, so I’d prefer you checked me on that.

I'm sorry, but if you're interested in those numbers you need to figure it out on your own. I don't want to put in the time to try to prove your point.

Yep and I think Gluten is right. And when he's dealing with a largely unproven group of guys, or guys making a comeback (Watkins, maybe Cobb) he was right to keep Toure.

Sunshine was being sarcastic. I agree that the seventh rounder most likely would have been better spend on a first rounder like Reagor than keeping Toure on the roster.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Nelson was pre season..non contact

Yeah I remember. I thought they played that game on artificial turf but Cap says it was Heinz field, natural turf. I do remember no one touched him. Thought he jumped on an incomplete pass. I remember Rodgers being pissed big time for losing his best WR in a PS game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Exactly, the 2015 season should work as cautionary tale for fans believing Rodgers can perform at an elite level with subpar pass catchers. He had his worst season based on passer rating, coming of winning the MVP the previous year.



Nelson's injury happened during a preseason game at Pittsburgh. Heinz Field actually has natural grass though.



Another constant with the Patriots was a top scoring defense for nearly all of the seasons Brady played there.



I'm sorry, but if you're interested in those numbers you need to figure it out on your own. I don't want to put in the time to try to prove your point.



Sunshine was being sarcastic. I agree that the seventh rounder most likely would have been better spend on a first rounder like Reagor than keeping Toure on the roster.

Thanks for the updates, and I'll read Sunshine's comments a little closer. Damn I could've sworn Nelson was hurt on artificial turf. I also recall, I hope correctly, that he wasn't touched on the play. I think he jumped for a pass that fell incomplete, looked to land normally, walked off the field normally, and then we got word he tore his ACL. I do remember Rodgers being very pissed at losing his #1 target in a PS game. Have to agree.

ACL tears are weird. I mean these guys are well-conditioned athletes. Sometimes the knee is hit in such a way that an injury is obvious. Other times, as with Nelson, no one touches the player. Now I'm even more mystified about Nelson's injury given it was non-contact on natural turf. Oh well, a long time ago.

I do recall OBJ tearing his ACL in the SB. That looked like a case where he landed, his foot stuck in the turf, and his knee kept moving forward, probably past his toes. SoFi has a new kind of artificial turf that simply lasts longer. That's the perfect set up for a torn ACL. In those cases, on any turf, it's likely injury is gonna happen.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm sorry, but if you're interested in those numbers you need to figure it out on your own. I don't want to put in the time to try to prove your point.

It’s not hard to figure out. The total number of FA, Trade or Drafted WR from Round 1 = 0. Javon Walker was the last WR to be selected in Day 1 that played for GBP through Trade or Draft.

The fact the Day 2 WR guys did so well was as much a testament to Coaching, GM projection/drafting, OL quality and QB play. GBP have done far more with far less than any team in this league at WR (your repeated contention is WR somehow are a singular product of their production) That isn’t just a testament to WR back then, it’s a testament to what’s about to happen in 2022 and beyond.

This whole 2015 WR “scare” business? Every last team in the NFL has peaks and valleys. This Staff decided to go Defense and it doesn’t need the 2011 Juggernaut Offense to Win because it didn’t work! Talk about getting embarrassed by the Giants
It needs the 2010 Defense and a methodical Bradyish type Offense that is consistent and runs effectively in January. (Which is the reasoning for near 20 years of D selections)

 

[tynimiller]

It’s not hard to figure out when we all already know the answer. The total number of FA, Trade or Drafted WR from Round 1 = 0

No other team in the league had zero Round 1 WR prospects since 2008

I was going to say this wasn't the case...but saw you put 2008 limit on it and also said Watkins doesn't count. I get the 2008 but the Watkins is just morphing to fit a narrative. I also crack up when folks whine and complain about no 1st round WRs. We've had some insanely good WRs in this time frame that played as good or better than a TON of round 1 guys; Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Jones, Adams...just to name the best 5.

 

[AKCheese]

I was going to say this wasn't the case...but saw you put 2008 limit on it and also said Watkins doesn't count. I get the 2008 but the Watkins is just morphing to fit a narrative. I also crack up when folks whine and complain about no 1st round WRs. We've had some insanely good WRs in this time frame that played as good or better than a TON of round 1 guys; Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Jones, Adams...just to name the best 5.

Driver (ok outside the 2008 limit but…)

 

[OldSchool101]

I was going to say this wasn't the case...but saw you put 2008 limit on it and also said Watkins doesn't count. I get the 2008 but the Watkins is just morphing to fit a narrative. I also crack up when folks whine and complain about no 1st round WRs. We've had some insanely good WRs in this time frame that played as good or better than a TON of round 1 guys; Nelson, Jennings, Cobb, Jones, Adams...just to name the best 5.

I never disagreed with that. It was the whole point I was making. The production came even though we did NOT throw heavy resources at that position group.

We know from players at WR leaving GB never pulled a Casey Hayward move. The environment at GB was the catalyst for their notable success (now watch Davante put up 1800 yards..NOT!). I’m not saying Davante isn’t capable.., but he had it made in GB.. I hope watching GB in the postseason from the comfort of his home is worth it.

 

[tynimiller]

I never disagreed with that. It was the whole point I was making. The production came even though we did NOT throw heavy resources at that position group.

We know from players at WR leaving GB never pulled a Casey Hayward move. The environment at GB was the catalyst for their notable success (now watch Davante put up 1800 yards..NOT!). I’m not saying Davante isn’t capable.., but he had it made in GB.. I hope watching GB in the postseason from the comfort of his home is worth it.

Eh I think they'll probably make it to the playoffs personally, but I also feel that was a good team before he arrived and he is one of the only WRs that have left at a time in their career I felt they would do well elsewhere. Cobb actually mildly proved me wrong as he saw success in Dallas for sure and when healthy is still showcasing that he is 40-50 yard per game type producing guy.

 

[OldSchool101]

Eh I think they'll probably make it to the playoffs personally, but I also feel that was a good team before he arrived and he is one of the only WRs that have left at a time in their career I felt they would do well elsewhere. Cobb actually mildly proved me wrong as he saw success in Dallas for sure and when healthy is still showcasing that he is 40-50 yard per game type producing guy.

Well, unless Davante remains above a 97th % in target share he’s going to regress some, that’s if he even plays in 16 games again.

Las Vegas lost to the
Bears, Chargers, Giants by a TD or more. Raiders also Had 3 Overtime games last season and Won all 3.
They were fortunate to get out with 10 wins in my opinion, especially after the debacle there.
Jon Gruden gets a C- at team building, he left a wreck and Davante is surely a bright spot.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Eh I think they'll probably make it to the playoffs personally, but I also feel that was a good team before he arrived and he is one of the only WRs that have left at a time in their career I felt they would do well elsewhere. Cobb actually mildly proved me wrong as he saw success in Dallas for sure and when healthy is still showcasing that he is 40-50 yard per game type producing guy.

Well it's gonna be interesting to follow the Raiders. Thing is, they're well set at receiver with Renfore and Waller and now Adams. even so Derek Carr in NOT Aaron Rodgers.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well it's gonna be interesting to follow the Raiders. Thing is, they're well set at receiver with Renfore and Waller and now Adams. even so Derek Carr in NOT Aaron Rodgers.

That Raiders OL is very suspect, Even more so than ours, but having some elite receivers should help.
Interesting listed on the Raiders depth chart early last year was Keisean Nixon, Rasul Douglas and Dallin Leavitt as their depth at CB and Safety. We even got their Head Coach (ok it’s a technicality there)