The Unsung Linchpin of 2023

[Schultz]

Just for the record. In the 2020 draft
I didn’t want a QB either and I’m being truthful on that.

That said, the way the board fell?
WR were selected at
#12
#15
#17
#21
#22
#25

No other WR was drafted in Day 1 after #25 overall and that 7 teams passed on the crop left at WR to choose a different position.
I’m about 96.8341% sure the Packers would NOT draft at WR using #30 overall or in a similar trade up there.

So, that leaves us now most likely picking WR using #62 or later (remember that the Packers LOVE them some 2nd Round WR)
In your opinion, Which WR would we have selected at #62 overall? Btw There isn’t one

Tee Higgins was someone’s very best argument at being a Bonafide SB contender? His 908 yards were likely his WR1 ceiling as he was paired with Joe Burrow. With GB he’d be WR2 at best and competing for looks with Davante Adams at WR1.
Very, very low chances Tee Higgins as WR2 puts us to a status of better than the 2020 Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Fast forward to our 2021 ST, it was so bad they (did) could take down an entire playoff run.

Michael Pittman? Arguable a step below Higgins (strike 2)
Shenault? (Strike 3)
Denzel Mims? (Strike 4).

I am hoping this helps answer your question. I HAVE NEVER SAID GB SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED A WR EARLY IN THE 2020 DRAFT. I HAVE NEVER POSTED THAT DRAFTING A WR WOULD HAVE LED TO A SB.
I know all of the top guys were gone before GB picked.

I AM ON RECORD SAYING I HATED WHEN GB TRADED UP TO DRAFT A QB in 2020.
FTR. I also hated the Dillon and Deguara picks in rounds 2 & 3.

 

[tynimiller]

My WR1 was still there (Pittman) I will never forget betting twenty dollars when the announcement of the trade happened I made with a buddy where I took Pittman and he took the field….

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'll always enjoy the posts that posit a WR in 2020 would have only helped a little bit while defending the pick that didn't help at all. For the record, Higgins would have been #2 behind Adams but would have also been #2 WAY AHEAD of Lazard (same with Pittman). Higgins on that team vs the Bucs makes the offense much more dynamic and, when the Bucs focused their entire defense on Adams, the Packers would have had a legit WR as a different option.


It's past so let's just hope Love can justify his selection in 2020 and make posters like myself eat crow.

Yeah I mean Higgins has done well with Burrow throwing to him. Gotta believe MVP Rodgers would have provided even better results. Oh, and they keep their 4th round pick. I know, sour grapes.....

If memory serves Higgins was a reach in round one. But your point could be taken that anyone would have been better than a guy that did nothing.

 

[Poppa San]

But your point could be taken that anyone would have been better than a guy that did nothing.

This has been @captainWIMM take for the past two years. I'm sure he'll be around in a few posts to remind us yet again.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This has been @captainWIMM take for the past two years. I'm sure he'll be around in a few posts to remind us yet again.

Well, I only need to repeat that as much as there are truly still some posters out there arguing otherwise. It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the Packers using their first rounder on a different position in 2020 would have had a bigger impact in the short term than selecting a quarterback who hardly played any meaningful snaps in three seasons.

Once again, I have no idea if it would have been enough to win a Super Bowl though.

With that being said, we will most likely find out over the next two seasons if it was a smart approach in the long haul.

 

[Heyjoe4]

This has been @captainWIMM take for the past two years. I'm sure he'll be around in a few posts to remind us yet again.

OMG you mean I agreed with Capt? Where is the retraction button? I'm kidding. This has been debated back and forth a million times in here. All comments will require that hindsight is indeed 20/20, all based on how Love performs.

(And a good example of hindsight being 20/20 is me suggesting Higgins could have been the pick, or the better pick. Well sure, with the benefit of hindsight, of course that's right. But if Gluten had done that in round 1 in 2020, we would have crucified him for reaching.)

After three years of all the back and forth on here, and that certainly includes me expressing my displeasure with the Love pick, now at last we all get to find out. Love is the guy now. All we can do, all we could ever do really, is see how that plays out.

 

[PikeBadger]

Well, I only need to repeat that as much as there are truly still some posters out there arguing otherwise. It should be pretty obvious to everyone that the Packers using their first rounder on a different position in 2020 would have had a bigger impact in the short term than selecting a quarterback who hardly played any meaningful snaps in three seasons.

Once again, I have no idea if it would have been enough to win a Super Bowl though.

With that being said, we will most likely find out over the next two seasons if it was a smart approach in the long haul.

What's your definition of short term. Personally I cringe seeing rookies playing too many snaps early. They are low hanging fruit ripe to be picked by every opponent you play. When you're drafting in the 20's as your pick, you're probably not getting the top choice at the position they will be playing.

 

[tynimiller]

OMG you mean I agreed with Capt? Where is the retraction button? I'm kidding. This has been debated back and forth a million times in here. All comments will require that hindsight is indeed 20/20, all based on how Love performs.

(And a good example of hindsight being 20/20 is me suggesting Higgins could have been the pick, or the better pick. Well sure, with the benefit of hindsight, of course that's right. But if Gluten had done that in round 1 in 2020, we would have crucified him for reaching.)

After three years of all the back and forth on here, and that certainly includes me expressing my displeasure with the Love pick, now at last we all get to find out. Love is the guy now. All we can do, all we could ever do really, is see how that plays out.

Higgins or Pittman either in hindsight would have helped more in the short term for sure. Now we will learn if hindisght in a year or two makes the long term different.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Higgins or Pittman either in hindsight would have helped more in the short term for sure. Now we will learn if hindisght in a year or two makes the long term different.

Thanks for that summary Ty. I know you liked Pittman. I really haven't noticed his play but he wasn't on my radar. Higgins has certainly done a fine job in a supporting role to Ja'Marr Chase. Again, Higgins or Pittman would have been fine picks instead of Love, but both would have been rightfully criticized as reaches.

I really do hope Love is wildly successful, and every Packer fan should feel the same. The past is gone. Time to give the ball to Love and see what we've got.

 

[pacmaniac]

Higgins and Pittman may not have turned into the players that they are now if they had been drafted by the Packers. They certainly would have gotten a lot less targets in their first 2 seasons, since the Packers had Davante, and Rodgers not always trusting young receivers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Higgins and Pittman may not have turned into the players that they are now if they had been drafted by the Packers. They certainly would have gotten a lot less targets in their first 2 seasons, since the Packers had Davante, and Rodgers not always trusting young receivers.

Yep, we know how careful Rodgers is with his INT numbers. Takes a while for that trust to develop with WRs, especially rookies.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'll always enjoy the posts that posit a WR in 2020 would have only helped a little bit while defending the pick that didn't help at all. For the record, Higgins would have been #2 behind Adams but would have also been #2 WAY AHEAD of Lazard (same with Pittman). Higgins on that team vs the Bucs makes the offense much more dynamic and, when the Bucs focused their entire defense on Adams, the Packers would have had a legit WR as a different option.


It's past so let's just hope Love can justify his selection in 2020 and make posters like myself eat crow.

Listen. Anything can happen. However we did not have a SB caliber Defense, even if we reached a little at WR. Tee Higgins is not Justin Jefferson. He’s a slight upgrade over Lazard. He’s barely averaging 1,000 across his career. That’s a #2 at best. Lazard is a strong WR3 to weaker WR2. Tee has 900 yards his rookie season as their #1 option. In GB he’s lucky to scratch 700-900 yards as WR2 option.
Sorry but Not enough disparity between Tee and Allen to say Tee would put the Packers into SB contender. I don’t buy that, but I understand you’re frustrated with the selection. Using hindsight, We now know it wasn’t enough to overcome our D and ST. Neither belonged in a SB I’m sorry but any non Packer will agree with me 3X as much as they would with your argument.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What's your definition of short term. Personally I cringe seeing rookies playing too many snaps early. They are low hanging fruit ripe to be picked by every opponent you play. When you're drafting in the 20's as your pick, you're probably not getting the top choice at the position they will be playing.

I know that you don't expect rookies to have an immediate impact. Every season there are several who end up contributing from the get-go and definitely most of the first rounders end up playing at least in some capacity. Love on the other hand wasn't even active for a single game in his rookie campaign.

We're now three years removed from him being drafted, therefore I feel confident in mentioning that any other prospect selected would have had a bigger impact in the short term.

Thanks for that summary Ty. I know you liked Pittman. I really haven't noticed his play but he wasn't on my radar. Higgins has certainly done a fine job in a supporting role to Ja'Marr Chase. Again, Higgins or Pittman would have been fine picks instead of Love, but both would have been rightfully criticized as reaches.

I don't think either Higgins or Pittman would have been considered a reach with the 30th pick.

However we did not have a SB caliber Defense, even if we reached a little at WR. Tee Higgins is not Justin Jefferson. He’s a slight upgrade over Lazard. He’s barely averaging 1,000 across his career. That’s a #2 at best. Lazard is a strong WR3 to weaker WR2. Tee has 900 yards his rookie season as their #1 option. In GB he’s lucky to scratch 700-900 yards as WR2 option.
Sorry but Not enough disparity between Tee and Allen to say Tee would put the Packers into SB contender. I don’t buy that, but I understand you’re frustrated with the selection. Using hindsight, We now know it wasn’t enough to overcome our D and ST. Neither belonged in a SB I’m sorry but any non Packer will agree with me 3X as much as they would with your argument.

The Packers were a touchdown away from beating the Bucs in the 2020 NFCCG. While it's impossible to know if another wide receiver would have made enough of a difference to win that game I would have liked to find out instead of having their first round pick that year being inactive for every single game. We definitely don't know it wouldn't have been good enough to win that game though.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Higgins is only a slight upgrade over Lazard.

 

[tynimiller]

It's ludicrous to suggest that Higgins is only a slight upgrade over Lazard.

Agree 100% here and as everyone knows I love Lazard in my WR room. The only aspect of the WR game that Lazard is better than Higgins at is blocking...and you can teach any guy to get serviceable...shoot MVS left here a much better blocker than he came here for sure and was not a strength of his.

 

[PikeBadger]

Agree 100% here and as everyone knows I love Lazard in my WR room. The only aspect of the WR game that Lazard is better than Higgins at is blocking...and you can teach any guy to get serviceable...shoot MVS left here a much better blocker than he came here for sure and was not a strength of his.

Disagree. I do think that one of Scantling's strengths was his blocking skill.

 

[PikeBadger]

I know that you don't expect rookies to have an immediate impact. Every season there are several who end up contributing from the get-go and definitely most of the first rounders end up playing at least in some capacity. Love on the other hand wasn't even active for a single game in his rookie campaign.

We're now three years removed from him being drafted, therefore I feel confident in mentioning that any other prospect selected would have had a bigger impact in the short term.



I don't think either Higgins or Pittman would have been considered a reach with the 30th pick.



The Packers were a touchdown away from beating the Bucs in the 2020 NFCCG. While it's impossible to know if another wide receiver would have made enough of a difference to win that game I would have liked to find out instead of having their first round pick that year being inactive for every single game. We definitely don't know it wouldn't have been good enough to win that game though.

It's ludicrous to suggest that Higgins is only a slight upgrade over Lazard.

In my world, an impact player is either one of the team's core players or very close to it. Not a complementary starter or player.

 

[tynimiller]

Disagree. I do think that one of Scantling's strengths was his blocking skill.

I concur now, but he did not come into the league a good blocker - but man that young man grew consistently weekly while he was here and thrown into the fire early in his career.

 

[Schultz]

To me impact is a relative thing. IMO we can't argue with Capt. that Love has had basically zero impact on the field himself. Now there are some who will argue that his true impact was lighting a fire under Rodgers. While I do not subscribe to this theory, I see the argument. Now we each have our own opinions on just how much impact another player (WR or not) may have had.

 

[tynimiller]

Oh absolutely. I take no issue with Capt or anyone saying Love hasn't done anything and in short term hindsight you cannot say his pick was needed or measurably good...now the issue would be if Love proves to be a starting QB for us over the next half dozen or more years if he continues to deny even long term hindsight proves worth it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Oh absolutely. I take no issue with Capt or anyone saying Love hasn't done anything and in short term hindsight you cannot say his pick was needed or measurably good...now the issue would be if Love proves to be a starting QB for us over the next half dozen or more years if he continues to deny even long term hindsight proves worth it.

Yeah a lot of us here didn't like the Love pick. It doesn't matter now, it's show time. And I'll be happy to be proven wrong on not liking the pick.

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah a lot of us here didn't like the Love pick. It doesn't matter now, it's show time. And I'll be happy to be proven wrong on not liking the pick.

I'm hoping that in a few years I can say I still say it was not the right pick at the time but it was absolutely the right pick - if you know what I mean. I think both items can have a lot of truth about them.

 

[OldSchool101]

It's ludicrous to suggest that Higgins is only a slight upgrade over Lazard.

Ludicrous?
2022
Tee Higgins
74/1029
13.9 per rec
7TD
2022
Joe Burrow
68.3% comp
4,475 yards
7.4 per attempt
35 TD 12 INT
—— ————————————-
2022
Allen Lazard
60/788
13.1 per rec
6TD
2022
Aaron Rodgers
64.6% comp
3,695 yards
6.8 per attempt
26 TD 12 INT
You’re saying basically 18 yards per game (best case and arguable more like 12-15 yards) makes us a perennial SB contender? I don’t buy this ludicrous that you guys are trying to sell us. Give me some Stefon Diggs area player or maybe Davante Adams or a Redzone threat like TE like Kelce and maybe I could get there (to a SB Win) in my imagination.

 

[tynimiller]

Ludicrous?
2022
Tee Higgins
74/1029
13.9 per rec
7TD

2022
Joe Burrow
68.3% comp
4,475 yards
7.4 per attempt
35 TD 12 INT

Vs.

2022
Allen Lazard
60/788
13.1 per rec
6TD

2022
Aaron Rodgers
64.6% comp
3,695 yards
6.8 per attempt
26 TD 12 INT

Don't just handpick one season....

Higgins in only 46 games and 327 targets has put up 3,028 Yards / 14.1 YPC / 19TDs / 215 receptions
Lazard in 57 games and 259 Targets has put up 2,236 yards / 13.2 YPC / 20 TDs / 169 receptions

It isn't a massive divide, but I think most would state Higgins is a superior WR

 

[OldSchool101]

Don't just handpick one season....

Higgins in only 46 games and 327 targets has put up 3,028 Yards / 14.1 YPC / 19TDs / 215 receptions
Lazard in 57 games and 259 Targets has put up 2,236 yards / 13.2 YPC / 20 TDs / 169 receptions

It isn't a massive divide, but I think most would state Higgins is a superior WR

Sure. I agree Tee Higgins is superior to Lazard in that general sense.
I also agree in what you said in bold. We needed more than Tee Higgins to bring us to the promise land. That’s what the argument is he’s trying to make. That Tee Higgins was the answer to all our Defensive and ST woes. I don’t believe that part. I’m not here to beat up on Tee Higgins he’s a fine player. Although imo Higgins might’ve even had slightly less yards with Rodgers over the last 3 seasons than he did with Burrow. Thus the divide is relatively small. We’re talking 15 yards a game area small.

Btw. I chose 2022 because it was a year that WR (Higgins and Lazard) BOTH had legitimate chances of breaking out as a true “WR1”
Neither became a bonafide WR1

2020 Higgins WR#28
2021 Higgins WR#17
2022 Higgins WR#20

Those aren’t “deal breaker” rankings for me.

 

[Schultz]

Ludicrous?
2022
Tee Higgins
74/1029
13.9 per rec
7TD
2022
Joe Burrow
68.3% comp
4,475 yards
7.4 per attempt
35 TD 12 INT
—— ————————————-
2022
Allen Lazard
60/788
13.1 per rec
6TD
2022
Aaron Rodgers
64.6% comp
3,695 yards
6.8 per attempt
26 TD 12 INT
You’re saying basically 18 yards per game (best case and arguable more like 12-15 yards) makes us a perennial SB contender? I don’t buy this ludicrous that you guys are trying to sell us. Give me some Stefon Diggs area player or maybe Davante Adams or a Redzone threat like TE like Kelce and maybe I could get there (to a SB Win) in my imagination.

Two completely different things. 1. A couple of people say GB would have won a SB if they would have drafted a WR instead of Love. Multiple people express their disappointment in the drafting of Love. You continue to fail to distinguish the difference between the 2. That is pretty ludicrous IMO.