The Unsung Linchpin of 2023

[tynimiller]

There's a chance Tom might end up being the starter at center in week 1 but I definitely don't feel comfortable about Rhyan. In my opinion it's possible he doesn't even make the roster.

Oh I strongly think one for sure, and maybe two of the following three are on THIN ice on being here come cuts: Hanson, Rhyan, Newman and probably in that order.

 

[Schultz]

I agree, the fact that they are trying non centers at center does not speak well of how they feel about Hanson. The fact that they are trying Rhyan at a position he has not played much tells us what they think of him. IMO the fact that Newman has NFL starting experience gives him a longer leash.

 

[milani]

I agree, the fact that they are trying non centers at center does not speak well of how they feel about Hanson. The fact that they are trying Rhyan at a position he has not played much tells us what they think of him. IMO the fact that Newman has NFL starting experience gives him a longer leash.

It is definitely a position which they are trying to improve. Possibly overlooked since the departure of Corey Linsley is how much the talent level here has an effect on the offense. One of our woes the last several seasons has been inside the 10 yard line particularly with punching it in on the ground. We all can recall a number of games in which we were stopped and had to kick a FG or turned it over on downs. Play action there does little if the defense knows you cannot pound it in.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree, the fact that they are trying non centers at center does not speak well of how they feel about Hanson. The fact that they are trying Rhyan at a position he has not played much tells us what they think of him. IMO the fact that Newman has NFL starting experience gives him a longer leash.

The Packers even list DJ Scaife as a center on their roster despite him not having played that position in college at all.

 

[OldSchool101]

I see them working OL at several positions to both evaluate each player and cross train them.

Sean Rhyan in particular is intriguing inside because he’s actually what I’d call a very good graded Run blocker. Many of Rhyan’s named deficiencies coming into the NFL we’re specifically concerning playing Tackle. However he was once of the best pure Run graders in last years draft. I copied this from Fan Nation:

• Massive sized OL with some positional versatility (mostly played LT in college, figures to be a better IOL)
• Solid overall athlete for a player with his frame
• Plays with solid knee bend in the initial phase of plays
• Has solid burst moving forward in the running game and he fits his hands quickly
• Possesses a bulldozer type of skill set once he latches on in the run game
• Devastating striking ability with his 99th percentile hand size as a run blocker
• Used good power and punch in the run game
• Does well to latch onto defenders and displace them on play-side runs - keeps his feet moving through contact
• Does well to scoop from the backside and use his frame to negate defenders flowing to the play
• Good overall ability to climb to the second-level and cut-off LBs
• Solid mover in space who took good angles to assignments
• Excellent overall play strength
• Drives defenders off the line of scrimmage as a down blocker
• Efficient feet when kicking into space and pulling; redirects his weight and gets square to his target well
• Solid overall in pass protection - his issues stem from the OT position and would mostly be masked inside at OG
• Grips strength to restrict space and stagnant defenders
• Excellent anchor who, despite a higher pad level, rarely gets bullied backward by bull-rushers
• Solid overall hand usage and ability to regain control while in pass protection
• Attempts to use upper body strength to rise defender’s momentum upward when the defender rushes within his cylinder
• Smart player who was aware of twists and delayed blitzes
• Very experienced player

It’s possible if we plan on Running some more we are gearing up to use our best iOL Power Grouping. Also it’s good to know if he can Win a role as a starter that Sean is versed in all positions. I personally think pulling Sean inside to C is more of a positional confidence builder than an indictment on Hanson or Myers. Just my take.

PS. I also don’t believe that they’ve written Rhyan off at all as I saw some sentiment in here after his suspension. The suspension is over as is the Rookie Honeymoon. He’s a #92 overall OL selection and it’ll take more than 1 setback to give up on that type expenditure. Conversely, I think Sean could be an X factor once he’s given a chance to shine. I don’t know about a Linchpin, but he could absolutely be a Cotter Pin and hold things together and disperse pressure back onto our areas of strength

 

[Mondio]

Some guys take a while to come around, so i'm not writing him off completely. But I do have to say, he doesn't look near as promising as he did at this time last year before they did anything. We had a definite need at OL and he not only didn't step up, he seemed to wither away to the bottom of the heap when he got a chance. Then was busted for PED's. It doesn't exactly instill great hope.

 

[OldSchool101]

Some guys take a while to come around, so i'm not writing him off completely. But I do have to say, he doesn't look near as promising as he did at this time last year before they did anything. We had a definite need at OL and he not only didn't step up, he seemed to wither away to the bottom of the heap when he got a chance. Then was busted for PED's. It doesn't exactly instill great hope.

Sure. I Don’t think we’re supposed to feel great about a guy who played primarily Tackle who’s being moved to a different position and doesn’t even see the field. Year 2 you’d like to see growth and some increased Confidence stemming from familiarity at a new position is all. Year 3 is where you’d ideally expect to start them, unless a player is more advanced than your other options or showing premature promise. Now every player obviously has a different learning curve. I see Rhyan as a med-high floor player, how high is his ceiling is what I’d like to discover.

 

[OldSchool101]

I might add that Sean is a Big Man. He floats in that 6’4.75” 320-325lb area depending on what he ate for the Holiday. Personally, I like those big guys if all other things similar. Bulaga was in that 6’5 X315-320 area, they just seem to match up better in todays NFL. If said OL anchor’s good (which I accept from his draft evaluators) then it’s just harder to move a guy over 320. It’s one thing to bench 225lb for 25 reps, it’s another to bench 325 for 50 snaps,,especially when that weight is trying to punch you back with 11.175” Mits.

I think his hands weigh 5 pounds each (being sarcastic) His hands are bigger than my feet. He jumped the same vertical as Reed and Cobb. That doesn’t even sound right, I know. A man that big jumping near a Yard Stick? (33.5”) and having a 1.77 10 Yard Split? That’s super impressive. Elite explosion.

A Trip back in time..

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[AmishMafia]

I would have liked to see him dominate as a rookie, but it doesn't worry me that he didn't. OL is a cerebral position to play and often the highest IQs on the team. It's tough to play if you have to think. You have to know what to do, where to go, and who to block a fraction of a second after the snap. It takes longer for some to get to that level.

Sean Rhyan started very early in college and was good, so I think he picks things up quickly. He has the physical ability to dominate. What i really like is his tenacity - he plays angry and we could use that attitude on the offensive line.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would have liked to see him dominate as a rookie, but it doesn't worry me that he didn't. OL is a cerebral position to play and often the highest IQs on the team. It's tough to play if you have to think. You have to know what to do, where to go, and who to block a fraction of a second after the snap. It takes longer for some to get to that level.

Sean Rhyan started very early in college and was good, so I think he picks things up quickly. He has the physical ability to dominate. What i really like is his tenacity - he plays angry and we could use that attitude on the offensive line.

Yeah and what I also thought interesting is in that video Basaraski also mentions Zach Tom being another versatile OL who could play OT, OG, Center. He was thinking Zach Tom there and we obviously selected Tom soon after (beginning of Day 3).
We could very well see a change at Center (or a few spots) sometime by next season. We’ve got enough guys with positional versatility that could either push Myers or find the best straight up Center replacement.

This Staff is always talking about getting the best 5 athletes on the field together simultaneously. While we are making changes at QB, this could be the time to reshuffle the OL deck.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I would have liked to see him dominate as a rookie, but it doesn't worry me that he didn't. OL is a cerebral position to play and often the highest IQs on the team. It's tough to play if you have to think. You have to know what to do, where to go, and who to block a fraction of a second after the snap. It takes longer for some to get to that level.

Sean Rhyan started very early in college and was good, so I think he picks things up quickly. He has the physical ability to dominate. What i really like is his tenacity - he plays angry and we could use that attitude on the offensive line.

I wouldn't have been worried about Rhyan not getting on the field because it took him a season to get used to the pro game either. But him not being able to perform at a decent level while taking an anabolic agent is definitely reason for concern.

 

[Schultz]

Yeah and what I also thought interesting is in that video Basaraski also mentions Zach Tom being another versatile OL who could play OT, OG, Center. He was thinking Zach Tom there and we obviously selected Tom soon after (beginning of Day 3).
We could very well see a change at Center (or a few spots) sometime by next season. We’ve got enough guys with positional versatility that could either push Myers or find the best straight up Center replacement.

This Staff is always talking about getting the best 5 athletes on the field together simultaneously. While we are making changes at QB, this could be the time to reshuffle the OL deck.

Admiittedly nitpicking here but I would prefer they got the best 5 OL on the field together simultaneously.

 

[tynimiller]

I think MLF touched on this once either this year or last, the best 5 OL don't always mean the starting 5.

Let's say overall your top 5 lineman are in fact Bakh, Jenkins, Tom, Yosh and Runyan (THIS IS PURELY FOR example sake).

Clearly no for sure center is there...which means you have to have Tom or Jenkins play center...and Yosh is purely a tackle so that means either Tom or Jenkins have to play the other guard spot not pulled in by Runyan. So while Myers may be your best center on the roster, he may not be one of your best 5 OL...

Which then leads to is it best to have your best 5 OL on the field, or is it best to have the best 5 OL you can on the field? Such a subtle but massive difference....

Perhaps your best OL you can field actually doesn't have one of your top 5 OL on the roster....for example sake only:

Bakh / Jenkins / Tom / Runyan / Nijman

or

Bakh / Jenkins / Myers / Tom / Nijman *Tom may very well be a better tackle prospect than Nijman BUT having Nijman hold down RT while Tom plays in perhaps is a better overall line?

or

Bakh / Jenkins / Myers / Runyan / Tom....*arguably Runyan is not one of our best 5 to some (staff is all that matters of course) but perhaps this 5 is stronger than just the pure best 5 OL.

 

[OldSchool101]

Admiittedly nitpicking here but I would prefer they got the best 5 OL on the field together simultaneously.

Yes and that’s Exactly what I inferred. IMO our O Lineup in 2022 was not ideal last season. I believe we have a better mix on board to get those best 5. I’m not there every day, but I think there is a magical combination we already own that would pop.

 

[Schultz]

Yes and that’s Exactly what I inferred. IMO our O Lineup in 2022 was not ideal last season. I believe we have a better mix on board to get those best 5. I’m not there every day, but I think there is a magical combination we already own that would pop.

I just changed best athlete to best OL. IMO there is a difference.

 

[OldSchool101]

I just changed best athlete to best OL. IMO there is a difference.

There you go. Give us our best 5 players. Much of our success this season will come from an area not getting media focus. OL.

I’m pretty confident if our OL plays really well, Jordan can discern and dissect even with an unproven group of Receivers. Much of that will initially stem from success in the Running game and trenches

 

[OldSchool101]

I’ll even offer that our DL performance will factor heavily on that side. If Gary gets back early and we sub Van Ness coming off the bench fresh? They’ll be some problems for opposing OL. We might need one of Slaton or Slayton or Brooks or Wyatt to up their game some also, but I’m fully expecting someone to shine on DL. Possibly even a Rookie.
We rarely draft 3 guys that can play DL and 1 of those looks like the next coming of TJ Watt.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Hanson and Newman I suspect are on the outs. The right side of the line needs help.

 

[milani]

I might add that Sean is a Big Man. He floats in that 6’4.75” 320-325lb area depending on what he ate for the Holiday. Personally, I like those big guys if all other things similar. Bulaga was in that 6’5 X315-320 area, they just seem to match up better in todays NFL. If said OL anchor’s good (which I accept from his draft evaluators) then it’s just harder to move a guy over 320. It’s one thing to bench 225lb for 25 reps, it’s another to bench 325 for 50 snaps,,especially when that weight is trying to punch you back with 11.175” Mits.

I think his hands weigh 5 pounds each (being sarcastic) His hands are bigger than my feet. He jumped the same vertical as Reed and Cobb. That doesn’t even sound right, I know. A man that big jumping near a Yard Stick? (33.5”) and having a 1.77 10 Yard Split? That’s super impressive. Elite explosion.

A Trip back in time..

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

To think that back in Lombardi days very few OL if any were in that size range. And if there were they were too slow. Bob Brown of the Eagles comes to mind back then.

 

[OldSchool101]

Heres some recent insight into the topic at OL. Once again, just as it heated up in here an article pops.

Packers Tout Disappointing Draft Pick as ‘Viable’ Center Option

The Packers are giving last year's third-round disappointment an opportunity to challenge Josh Myers for the starting center job in 2023.

heavy.com

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I’m pretty confident if our OL plays really well, Jordan can discern and dissect even with an unproven group of Receivers. Much of that will initially stem from success in the Running game and trenches

I'm worried that Rodgers made the offensive line look better than it actually is. If there's any truth to it Love might not have enough time to successfully throw the ball on many plays.

 

[tynimiller]

Hanson and Newman I suspect are on the outs. The right side of the line needs help.

Honestly, I've seen vastly more growth/progress out of Hanson the last year or two than Newman. Newman came in and delivered a high floor level rookie performance, but then I swear he hasn't changed at all or grew.

 

[PikeBadger]

Admiittedly nitpicking here but I would prefer they got the best 5 OL on the field together simultaneously.

Totally agree. I want the 5 best players out there, even if they're not the five best athletes.

 

[Poppa San]

To think that back in Lombardi days very few OL if any were in that size range.

I think Ray Nistchke was one of the largest players on the roster for a while. He went about 6'3" and 235#. Kramer and Thurston had him by 10#. In the 70's size started to increase.

People still talk about The Hogs some four decades later. And with reverence.

Deservedly so. They changed the whole game. The line was so big at the time – averaging more than 270 pounds – that defenses would ultimately be forced to respond and use bigger defensive linemen.

https://www.the-hogs.net/blogs/the-hogs/

 

[mradtke66]

There you go. Give us our best 5 players.

The problem is defining "best." If you our 5 best are hypothetically great LTs, but exceeding poor RGs, you're going to suffer.

Just within run blocking, I could break down 3-4 different categories of rating. Strong at the point of attack, able to pull/trap, ability to get to the second level when uncovered, and ability to combo/release up to the second level. And then we have to compare pass blocking vs. run blocking and what manner of run blocking you'd prioritize or be willing to compromise.

In general, Bhak and Jenkins aren't great at the PoA, but are good run blockers in our scheme, because they move well and can do the other three parts of run blocking pretty good to excellent.