The Jordan Love Thread

[longtimefan]

Ted didn't trade up into the first round to select Rodgers and Favre had been threatening to retire for years. Love needs to be held to a higher standard, or people need to ask why Gute felt the need to move up for him. Love could become a very good QB (I certainly hope he does) but Gute put a lot on the guy while slowing down the development of the entire team when he moved up for him.

Missing the point...rodgers had ton of practice. For 2 years..love has what technically a half a season? Covid practices were way way diff than rodgers ever had

But I come to terms you will never give him the benifit...your drew your line and refuse to go over it

 

[PikeBadger]

No one has a higher opinion of their football knowledge than shoutbox participants.

Ahem yeah I think you are one of the more knowledgeable forum posters, take that compliment with a grain of salt because we are a hive of idiocy.

I couldn't agree more! Very well stated.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Missing the point...rodgers had ton of practice. For 2 years..love has what technically a half a season? Covid practices were way way diff than rodgers ever had

But I come to terms you will never give him the benifit...your drew your line and refuse to go over it

You should read other things I've read. I hope Love will be great and anyone predicting his career off of one game is an idiot. The difference is that I still remember that Gute chose Love over guys that could help the team with Rodgers on it while other people just ignore the concept of opportunity cost.

 

[sschind]

You should read other things I've read. I hope Love will be great and anyone predicting his career off of one game is an idiot. The difference is that I still remember that Gute chose Love over guys that could help the team with Rodgers on it while other people just ignore the concept of opportunity cost.

Or maybe they are looking at the opportunity cost of not choosing Love. I think pretty much everyone is aware of the concept of opportunity costs and everyone has a different idea as to which cost is more acceptable. Some people feel having a viable successor to Rodgers in place is very important and I think that many people who did not really like the pick at least understand it.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Or maybe they are looking at the opportunity cost of not choosing Love. I think pretty much everyone is aware of the concept of opportunity costs and everyone has a different idea as to which cost is more acceptable. Some people feel having a viable successor to Rodgers in place is very important and I think that many people who did not really like the pick at least understand it.

A viable successor to Rodgers makes sense when the team is planning to move on or isn't sure of his long term status. Fans go around on this all the time. The pick only makes sense if: A) you believed Rodgers was done in 2020 or B) Love is going to be a perennial All-Pro.

Maybe Love turns out to be a perennial All-Pro (I hope so) but the Packers gave up the chance to improve the team's chances to win a Super Bowl in the near term by picking a backup rather than another WR or CB. I hope Love becomes one of the five best QBs in the NFL but pretending his selection didn't set the team back is ignoring an important factor in any evaluation of the Jordan Love pick.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

A viable successor to Rodgers makes sense when the team is planning to move on or isn't sure of his long term status. Fans go around on this all the time. The pick only makes sense if: A) you believed Rodgers was done in 2020 or B) Love is going to be a perennial All-Pro.

Maybe Love turns out to be a perennial All-Pro (I hope so) but the Packers gave up the chance to improve the team's chances to win a Super Bowl in the near term by picking a backup rather than another WR or CB. I hope Love becomes one of the five best QBs in the NFL but pretending his selection didn't set the team back is ignoring an important factor in any evaluation of the Jordan Love pick.

There is no guarantee a CB or WR pick would have panned out. This is what ALL of the anti-Love pick haters have failed to grasp (from my point of view)

Rodgers also has an injury history and it was important to take a risk on a QB for that reason alone

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There is no guarantee a CB or WR pick would have panned out. This is what ALL of the anti-Love pick haters have failed to grasp (from my point of view)

Rodgers also has an injury history and it was important to take a risk on a QB for that reason alone

No pick is certain but there were a bunch of very good players at positions of need that went after love (Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman, Winfield Jr, Chase Claypool). While I understand your point, there was a VERY strong chance that a good player would have been selected instead. Arguing otherwise is arguing that a backup is more valuable than a potential starter. Seriously, you believe in Gute enough to believe Love will be amazing but you don't believe him enough to think he would have drafted one of the numerous good players taken soon after Love?

As for injury risk, we just saw that Love was not ready to be an injury fill in (nor should he be since he's so young). If you want an injury fill-in then you get a vet as the backup, not a first or second year player.

 

[gopkrs]

I was just thinking that Love kind of reminds of Majik Man. The way he throws. When Rodgers was young, I could see he could kind of rifle the ball. Not seeing that from Love. I agree with everyone else that I can't judge him yet. Nice if he were able to shake off the adrenaline or the jitters. He had one of them.

 

[milani]

And while the offensive line had some bad one-on-one losses, you also had the problem of Love trying to set protections. He doesn't have Rodgers' brain at the LOS.

No. Rodgers is the Einstein of QBs. The rest grapple to get a percentage.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

ST lost the game.

That's definitely true but doesn't change anything about the way Love performed.

Truer words rarely spoken in here!

He dropped a bomb on Cobb for the gain and clutch pass to Adams to get the 4th and 1.

Cobb completely bailed out Love on that 35-yard completion. That was a bad throw that gets picked off more often than not.

New Orleans had one of the worst defenses on paper (still do) week 1, yet a guaranteed Hall of Famer could do NOTHING against them.

The Saints ranked fifth in points allowed per game. How do you come up with them being one of the worst defenses in the league???

 

[OldSchool101]

Good assessment article of Love on PWire

Evaluating the first NFL start for Packers QB Jordan Love

An attempt at a fair evaluation of Packers QB Jordan Love’s first NFL start.

packerswire.usatoday.com

 

[OldSchool101]

I was also just going to mention that if Cobbs Catch was lucky, then so was Rodgers TD last week and so are about 10% of all completions in the NFL. WR are supposed to fight for catches that’s what they get paid to do for a career. What’s amazing to us is done all the time around the league in practices etc..

 

[G0P4ckG0]

That's definitely true but doesn't change anything about the way Love performed.



Cobb completely bailed out Love on that 35-yard completion. That was a bad throw that gets picked off more often than not.



The Saints ranked fifth in points allowed per game. How do you come up with them being one of the worst defenses in the league???

*on paper*

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good assessment article of Love on PWire

Evaluating the first NFL start for Packers QB Jordan Love

An attempt at a fair evaluation of Packers QB Jordan Love’s first NFL start.

packerswire.usatoday.com

Hey this guy must be reading our Forum! Good article and its full of many of the points made here by posters. I will say it again, for those who want to somehow use this one game as evidence that Gute never should have drafted Love, give me a break.

 

[OldSchool101]

Hey this guy must be reading our Forum! Good article and its full of many of the points made here by posters. I will say it again, for those who want to somehow use this one game as evidence that Gute never should have drafted Love, give me a break.

I’m not making excuses for Jordan, he needs to tighten up his game. However in 14 of 34 attempts he had an unblocked pass rusher? That’s speaks volumes to me.
There’s only a handful of Offenses that could’ve overcome that league wide. None of them include an inexperienced QB

 

[milani]

I was also just going to mention that if Cobbs Catch was lucky, then so was Rodgers TD last week and so are about 10% of all completions in the NFL. WR are supposed to fight for catches that’s what they get paid to do for a career. What’s amazing to us is done all the time around the league in practices etc..

Speaking of lucky but fighting for the ball. How about Richard Rogers, Jeff Janis, and Randall Cobb. Those are the recipients of 3 of AR Hail Marys. It don't come easy but someone does have to throw it in the first place.

 

[Pkrjones]

I’m not making excuses for Jordan, he needs to tighten up his game. However in 14 of 34 attempts he had an unblocked pass rusher? That’s speaks volumes to me.
There’s only a handful of Offenses that could’ve overcome that league wide. None of them include an inexperienced QB

I've seen most of the Bear's games this season and there are a lot of parallels between Fields and Love, not to say they're the same type of player or placing one "better" than the other. Early season the Bear's OL was complete trash and Fields was under pressure easily 1/2 of his throws leading to inconsitent results moving the ball. They're mixing in runs better than they were in early-season keeping Defenses more honest and Fields is having more success. The difference in Fields confidence level now vs. 6 games ago is astounding as he is much less nervous waiting for a play to develop or seeing the potentially open receiver before they break (vs. waiting for the break & then throwing). Chicago has a bonafide QB now, unfortunately for the NFC North moving forward.

The difference between Love in the 1st half vs. the 2nd was apparent as he was seeing the field and making good decisions on his receiver. I'm not completely sold on him being our 3rd in a row HOF'er but with more playing time I can see the game slowing down for him even more. I'd love for Love to spend more time watching & analyzing film on not only AR but Brady, Brees, and the Mannings on how they handle blitzes and find the "hot" receiver. I'm optimistic that Love has the physical skills to be an above-average-at-worst QB, just needs to spend a lot of time on the mental part before his next significant playing time.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I've seen most of the Bear's games this season and there are a lot of parallels between Fields and Love, not to say they're the same type of player or placing one "better" than the other. Early season the Bear's OL was complete trash and Fields was under pressure easily 1/2 of his throws leading to inconsitent results moving the ball. They're mixing in runs better than they were in early-season keeping Defenses more honest and Fields is having more success. The difference in Fields confidence level now vs. 6 games ago is astounding as he is much less nervous waiting for a play to develop or seeing the potentially open receiver before they break (vs. waiting for the break & then throwing). Chicago has a bonafide QB now, unfortunately for the NFC North moving forward.

The difference between Love in the 1st half vs. the 2nd was apparent as he was seeing the field and making good decisions on his receiver. I'm not completely sold on him being our 3rd in a row HOF'er but with more playing time I can see the game slowing down for him even more. I'd love for Love to spend more time watching & analyzing film on not only AR but Brady, Brees, and the Mannings on how they handle blitzes and find the "hot" receiver. I'm optimistic that Love has the physical skills to be an above-average-at-worst QB, just needs to spend a lot of time on the mental part before his next significant playing time.

And the mental aspect just comes from on-the-field experience. He has ALL the tools but just needs practice time. I have no worries after just 1 game, especially since the O-line did him zero favors

 

[OldSchool101]

Speaking of lucky but fighting for the ball. How about Richard Rogers, Jeff Janis, and Randall Cobb. Those are the recipients of 3 of AR Hail Marys. It don't come easy but someone does have to throw it in the first place.

True. Our QBs have enough to fix without being stripped of the dignity of plays they make.
I saw many doing that to Rasul Douglas, saying he got lucky. While AJ clearly was not focused I can assure you that Rasul was laser focused. For every several plays he gives up, he should have a play where if he stays focused? It’s his turn

 

[OldSchool101]

I've seen most of the Bear's games this season and there are a lot of parallels between Fields and Love, not to say they're the same type of player or placing one "better" than the other. Early season the Bear's OL was complete trash and Fields was under pressure easily 1/2 of his throws leading to inconsitent results moving the ball. They're mixing in runs better than they were in early-season keeping Defenses more honest and Fields is having more success. The difference in Fields confidence level now vs. 6 games ago is astounding as he is much less nervous waiting for a play to develop or seeing the potentially open receiver before they break (vs. waiting for the break & then throwing). Chicago has a bonafide QB now, unfortunately for the NFC North moving forward.

The difference between Love in the 1st half vs. the 2nd was apparent as he was seeing the field and making good decisions on his receiver. I'm not completely sold on him being our 3rd in a row HOF'er but with more playing time I can see the game slowing down for him even more. I'd love for Love to spend more time watching & analyzing film on not only AR but Brady, Brees, and the Mannings on how they handle blitzes and find the "hot" receiver. I'm optimistic that Love has the physical skills to be an above-average-at-worst QB, just needs to spend a lot of time on the mental part before his next significant playing time.

Amen. We learn through adversity. If Love figures out what he could’ve done better in film study and has a strategy to build upon that with a plan of counter attack? Then he’s one step closer to winning the war.
We got a semi-pass here with our entire Division losing (sounds like WW4) and this being an AFC road match. We are still 4 games ahead in our Division and as long as Aaron is standing and our D continues on their warpath? We’re in good shape.

PS. Tonyan would’ve been ideal to have at KC. Or another fast Slot receiver. A good experienced QB would’ve eaten KC alive with 6-7 yard catches and lots of YAC. Sounds crazy, but Favre to Donald Driver would’ve killed KC

 

[Pkrjones]

PS. Tonyan would’ve been ideal to have at KC. Or another fast Slot receiver. A good experienced QB would’ve eaten KC alive with 6-7 yard catches and lots of YAC. Sounds crazy, but Favre to Donald Driver would’ve killed KC

Agreed. If I were MLF I would've had Lazard posting-up the 6" shorter DB in the center of the field ALL NIGHT, 6-8 yards deep as the emergency receiver and IF Love got into trouble put it up high for Lazard to out-rebound the DB. Worst case is a few more PI's but would've shown that KC leaving the middle wide open is a bad plan.

Watched the Steeler's game last night and if Ben would've put the ball up high in the back of the endzone for Claypool they would've had 2 more TD's. 6'-5" receivers that can jump have such an advantage over 5'-11" DB's it's ridiculous they don't use that mismatch MUCH more often.

 

[KiDcUdI]

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After watching this I have changed my stance on Love a bit. This game was just ungradeable because of how bad Turner and Newman actually were. Those two had horrendous games. When Bakhtiari is back Newman cannot continue to play. Bak, Jenkins, Meyers, Runyan, Turner is a very good line in both pass pro and run blocking. Now with that said I think Love still was very bad, which is an upgrade over what I felt was horrendous.

I am not with JT on the 1st play. The design was fine. It had the underneath receiver in Dafney but Love screwed up the pass.

The 2nd play again it was on Love. I thought this was a pickable ball against a better defense. You can not throw outside and behind in the NFL. That is pick six territory.

3rd play I think is on Loves presnap reads. He didnt identify the blitz and get his protection correct. As JT explains you want the free rusher coming off the edge and you roll away from that defender and hope someone breaks open one on one before the edge gets home. Instead we block the edge but give up the inside rush which is game over. Had we blocked correctly the underneath route from Lazard gets a huge gain. That was the design of the play.

4th play I think JT didnt know the play clock was at 1. This one is also on love. Gotta know where the playclock is. This is inexperience for sure.

5th play was exactly what we needed from Love earlier. Its the same concept but he made the throw this time. Good play by Love within the design of the offense.

6th play is the same issue as play #3. The blitz isnt identified properly. The play has no shot. Gotta identify the blitz and set your protection properly. They sent the house so you need to block it properly and prepare to roll away from a free rusher coming off the edge. Instead they come right up the B gap and its game, blouses. As far as the play that was called I hate it. Its a shot play and Lafleur needed to know they were going to attack Love on this play. The intention is to either get MVS in the post or under that to Adams. Adams is covered but that deep post is open for the taking if Love just rips it but not enough time or experience to see it develop.

7th play is what we should have seen more of considering the pressure they were sending. Adams would have eaten them alive at the LOS with in and out breaking routes. As we saw in the 2nd play though Love was a bit inaccurate on these types of throws. This was a nice rhythm pass for Love on the money.

8th play was what we saw from Love in preseason ripping that in breaking route to Funchess. Easy pass for Love taking what the defense gives but they also didnt blitz him here.

9th play I am not with JT at all. Bad decision making, poor accuracy. The play got blocked up well enough that he had time to go through his reads. Its the classic YOLO throw I seen from Love all throughout his college games. No reason to force this. It isnt there at all. The CB has his eyes on Love the entire time. THE. ENTIRE. TIME. Adams isnt open. Had Love went through his reads he has Dafney about to be open over the middle and he could have went Lazard sooner for a decent gain. Just an awful pass from the decision to the accuracy. As Rodgers says "If I see the back of the defenders helmet my guys open." Well I see the defenders facemak. Stupid.

10th play is a TD but the protection is again not set correctly. Love has to side step the stunting defender and it causes the pass the be off. I think clean pocket Love makes this throw. Regardless of the pocket situation Rodgers nails this pass. This is one that Love is going to eventually have to make. He needs more air under it and lead Adams a little more. Adams is too good tracking the ball that he will adjust but Love puts it way too far out of bounds to even give his guy a chance.

11th play is the TD to Lazard. Again we let the B gap blitz right in Loves face but he rips it quickly on the receivers break. This is identifying the blitz and finding the weakness in the coverage. Typically against these all out blitzes DBs are going to play inside leverage to use the sideline as their help defender in case the pass is caught. The out route is open. And where he threw behind Adams for a pickable ball earlier he hit Lazard on the money and he does the rest to score.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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After watching this I have changed my stance on Love a bit. This game was just ungradeable because of how bad Turner and Newman actually were. Those two had horrendous games. When Bakhtiari is back Newman cannot continue to play. Bak, Jenkins, Meyers, Runyan, Turner is a very good line in both pass pro and run blocking. Now with that said I think Love still was very bad, which is an upgrade over what I felt was horrendous.

I am not with JT on the 1st play. The design was fine. It had the underneath receiver in Dafney but Love screwed up the pass.

The 2nd play again it was on Love. I thought this was a pickable ball against a better defense. You can not throw outside and behind in the NFL. That is pick six territory.

3rd play I think is on Loves presnap reads. He didnt identify the blitz and get his protection correct. As JT explains you want the free rusher coming off the edge and you roll away from that defender and hope someone breaks open one on one before the edge gets home. Instead we block the edge but give up the inside rush which is game over. Had we blocked correctly the underneath route from Lazard gets a huge gain. That was the design of the play.

4th play I think JT didnt know the play clock was at 1. This one is also on love. Gotta know where the playclock is. This is inexperience for sure.

5th play was exactly what we needed from Love earlier. Its the same concept but he made the throw this time. Good play by Love within the design of the offense.

6th play is the same issue as play #3. The blitz isnt identified properly. The play has no shot. Gotta identify the blitz and set your protection properly. They sent the house so you need to block it properly and prepare to roll away from a free rusher coming off the edge. Instead they come right up the B gap and its game, blouses. As far as the play that was called I hate it. Its a shot play and Lafleur needed to know they were going to attack Love on this play. The intention is to either get MVS in the post or under that to Adams. Adams is covered but that deep post is open for the taking if Love just rips it but not enough time or experience to see it develop.

7th play is what we should have seen more of considering the pressure they were sending. Adams would have eaten them alive at the LOS with in and out breaking routes. As we saw in the 2nd play though Love was a bit inaccurate on these types of throws. This was a nice rhythm pass for Love on the money.

8th play was what we saw from Love in preseason ripping that in breaking route to Funchess. Easy pass for Love taking what the defense gives but they also didnt blitz him here.

9th play I am not with JT at all. Bad decision making, poor accuracy. The play got blocked up well enough that he had time to go through his reads. Its the classic YOLO throw I seen from Love all throughout his college games. No reason to force this. It isnt there at all. The CB has his eyes on Love the entire time. THE. ENTIRE. TIME. Adams isnt open. Had Love went through his reads he has Dafney about to be open over the middle and he could have went Lazard sooner for a decent gain. Just an awful pass from the decision to the accuracy. As Rodgers says "If I see the back of the defenders helmet my guys open." Well I see the defenders facemak. Stupid.

10th play is a TD but the protection is again not set correctly. Love has to side step the stunting defender and it causes the pass the be off. I think clean pocket Love makes this throw. Regardless of the pocket situation Rodgers nails this pass. This is one that Love is going to eventually have to make. He needs more air under it and lead Adams a little more. Adams is too good tracking the ball that he will adjust but Love puts it way too far out of bounds to even give his guy a chance.

11th play is the TD to Lazard. Again we let the B gap blitz right in Loves face but he rips it quickly on the receivers break. This is identifying the blitz and finding the weakness in the coverage. Typically against these all out blitzes DBs are going to play inside leverage to use the sideline as their help defender in case the pass is caught. The out route is open. And where he threw behind Adams for a pickable ball earlier he hit Lazard on the money and he does the rest to score.

I read a similar breakdown of Love's performance by someone else. Like many of us have been saying since the game, the OL was bad Sunday and to pin all the blame on Love isn't looking at the game with clear vision. However, I do think Rodgers is still able to function better than Love, when the OL is playing bad. But why wouldn't he be able to, he has 99.9999% more game experience than Love.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

I read a similar breakdown of Love's performance by someone else. Like many of us have been saying since the game, the OL was bad Sunday and to pin all the blame on Love isn't looking at the game with clear vision. However, I do think Rodgers is still able to function better than Love, when the OL is playing bad. But why wouldn't he be able to, he has 99.9999% more game experience than Love.

Rodgers starting MAY have resulted in a win, but the O-line and Special Teams were suspect all game. The same was true in week 1 with Rodgers and the team lost that game. However, the defense against the Chiefs was much improved over week 1 and Love should have found a way to win

It all boils down to "that's a result to expect from a first-time starter", put simply. Team effort but Love (and every QB) has to show that they can make the big plays to overcome adversity. He didn't accomplish that and neither did Rodgers week 1. Learning experience and on to the next game

 

[milani]

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After watching this I have changed my stance on Love a bit. This game was just ungradeable because of how bad Turner and Newman actually were. Those two had horrendous games. When Bakhtiari is back Newman cannot continue to play. Bak, Jenkins, Meyers, Runyan, Turner is a very good line in both pass pro and run blocking. Now with that said I think Love still was very bad, which is an upgrade over what I felt was horrendous.

I am not with JT on the 1st play. The design was fine. It had the underneath receiver in Dafney but Love screwed up the pass.

The 2nd play again it was on Love. I thought this was a pickable ball against a better defense. You can not throw outside and behind in the NFL. That is pick six territory.

3rd play I think is on Loves presnap reads. He didnt identify the blitz and get his protection correct. As JT explains you want the free rusher coming off the edge and you roll away from that defender and hope someone breaks open one on one before the edge gets home. Instead we block the edge but give up the inside rush which is game over. Had we blocked correctly the underneath route from Lazard gets a huge gain. That was the design of the play.

4th play I think JT didnt know the play clock was at 1. This one is also on love. Gotta know where the playclock is. This is inexperience for sure.

5th play was exactly what we needed from Love earlier. Its the same concept but he made the throw this time. Good play by Love within the design of the offense.

6th play is the same issue as play #3. The blitz isnt identified properly. The play has no shot. Gotta identify the blitz and set your protection properly. They sent the house so you need to block it properly and prepare to roll away from a free rusher coming off the edge. Instead they come right up the B gap and its game, blouses. As far as the play that was called I hate it. Its a shot play and Lafleur needed to know they were going to attack Love on this play. The intention is to either get MVS in the post or under that to Adams. Adams is covered but that deep post is open for the taking if Love just rips it but not enough time or experience to see it develop.

7th play is what we should have seen more of considering the pressure they were sending. Adams would have eaten them alive at the LOS with in and out breaking routes. As we saw in the 2nd play though Love was a bit inaccurate on these types of throws. This was a nice rhythm pass for Love on the money.

8th play was what we saw from Love in preseason ripping that in breaking route to Funchess. Easy pass for Love taking what the defense gives but they also didnt blitz him here.

9th play I am not with JT at all. Bad decision making, poor accuracy. The play got blocked up well enough that he had time to go through his reads. Its the classic YOLO throw I seen from Love all throughout his college games. No reason to force this. It isnt there at all. The CB has his eyes on Love the entire time. THE. ENTIRE. TIME. Adams isnt open. Had Love went through his reads he has Dafney about to be open over the middle and he could have went Lazard sooner for a decent gain. Just an awful pass from the decision to the accuracy. As Rodgers says "If I see the back of the defenders helmet my guys open." Well I see the defenders facemak. Stupid.

10th play is a TD but the protection is again not set correctly. Love has to side step the stunting defender and it causes the pass the be off. I think clean pocket Love makes this throw. Regardless of the pocket situation Rodgers nails this pass. This is one that Love is going to eventually have to make. He needs more air under it and lead Adams a little more. Adams is too good tracking the ball that he will adjust but Love puts it way too far out of bounds to even give his guy a chance.

11th play is the TD to Lazard. Again we let the B gap blitz right in Loves face but he rips it quickly on the receivers break. This is identifying the blitz and finding the weakness in the coverage. Typically against these all out blitzes DBs are going to play inside leverage to use the sideline as their help defender in case the pass is caught. The out route is open. And where he threw behind Adams for a pickable ball earlier he hit Lazard on the money and he does the rest to score.

Good analysis. I think Spagnola called those defenses exactly to produce the results you stated. He and the rest of the league knows this is what will likely happen with a brand new tryout player. If it had been Rodgers Spags might only do a portion of it.