The Amari Rodgers Thread

tynimiller

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Thanks Ty. I seemed to recall he played somewhere before Indy and after GB. From those stats, in Houston, he looks like PS material. Well, he looked like that in GB. Too bad really. I'd rather see these guys succeed.

Here's the crazy thing...that was actually a solid WR3 level type production in his time with HOU.

Project that out to 17 games and that is 57 targets / 40 receptions / 523 yards / 3 TDs.....or what I like to call a very Randall Cobb type season....actually better than his last three:

Cobb's:

2020 - 48 targets / 38 receptions / 441 yards / 3 TDs
2021 - 39 targets / 28 receptions / 375 yards / 5 TDs
2022 - 50 targets / 34 receptions / 417 yards / 1 TD

of course Cobb doesn't produce more because of age and not being out there every game.

Amari to me should have been minimum a WR4 and slot#2 type guy....mixture of playbook digestion (heard an issue), work ethic and drive took that all away from him.
 

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Here's the crazy thing...that was actually a solid WR3 level type production in his time with HOU.

Project that out to 17 games and that is 57 targets / 40 receptions / 523 yards / 3 TDs.....or what I like to call a very Randall Cobb type season....actually better than his last three:

Cobb's:

2020 - 48 targets / 38 receptions / 441 yards / 3 TDs
2021 - 39 targets / 28 receptions / 375 yards / 5 TDs
2022 - 50 targets / 34 receptions / 417 yards / 1 TD

of course Cobb doesn't produce more because of age and not being out there every game.

Amari to me should have been minimum a WR4 and slot#2 type guy....mixture of playbook digestion (heard an issue), work ethic and drive took that all away from him.
Thanks for the update. And yeah, those are solid Cobb numbers and he was a solid #3, even #2 receiver in his best years. I think a lot of guys do fail because they lack the work ethic to transition from college ball, where a lot of these guys are coddled and play a much shorter season.

Even so, I'd think a guy selected in the third round could manage that. Not always, apparently.
 

tynimiller

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Thanks for the update. And yeah, those are solid Cobb numbers and he was a solid #3, even #2 receiver in his best years. I think a lot of guys do fail because they lack the work ethic to transition from college ball, where a lot of these guys are coddled and play a much shorter season.

Even so, I'd think a guy selected in the third round could manage that. Not always, apparently.

Regardless of how Green Bay does, even if we win a couple super bowls in Gute's time, Amari will still be a guy that gets brought up when discussing his failures for sure.
 

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Regardless of how Green Bay does, even if we win a couple super bowls in Gute's time, Amari will still be a guy that gets brought up when discussing his failures for sure.
Yeah and it's tied in with the "third round curse". I don't believe in these things, but they do gain traction. Overall, I think Gluten has done a good job setting up the Packers post-Rodgers. The team really does belong to him and MLF now. Rodgers made for great football, and was good enough to cover for some mistakes as well.
 

tynimiller

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Yeah and it's tied in with the "third round curse". I don't believe in these things, but they do gain traction. Overall, I think Gluten has done a good job setting up the Packers post-Rodgers. The team really does belong to him and MLF now. Rodgers made for great football, and was good enough to cover for some mistakes as well.

That third round as I've said if I'm Gute I'm done picking offensive guys...while Oren Burks didn't light it up, he has cemented himself as a very good ST guy and made a name for himself worthy of roster spot for a while now. History of third rounders for those wondering - and to be fair I argue one has done enough to not be thrown in with the others:

2018 Oren Burks - that hybrid tweener type ILB many thought was going to be that versatile pass coverage/side line to side line disrupter. He never saw more than 13% of the defensive snaps here in GB until that final year in 2021 when some injuries made it happen...but the dude is a ST stalwart and has shined in SF too in that capacity. 33% BUST IMO to what we hoped we got, but he is still an NFL level player for sure

2019 Jace Sternberger
- TE out of A&M that to Gute's credit many thought had versatile TE threat written all over him...issue was he couldn't digest a ton at the next level and makes one wonder if the college structure merely hid from many his inabilities. Very few snaps were given him and he was let go after two seasons...he recently TORE up the USFL but even with that is now a free agent again after Bills signed him in July only to release him then. 100% BUST IMO

2020 Josiah Deguara
- TE from Cincinnati, a school with a lot of great TE and he is near the top or is the top in many categories. H Backs normally don't go in the top 64 picks, but some trickle into the third as Gute made Deguara do. We all remember how before his rookie year injury, MLF made him a target of the offense right from the first snap of the preseason. His whole rookie year was essentially stolen from him, something many fail to remember. Then in 2021, despite Rodgers clearly not being a Josiah fan, when Tonyan went down Josiah had to be leaned on heavily - and look was he a Top 5-10 TE in that stretch of the league no, but dangit this cat was VERY CLOSE. From week 8 to week 16 this guy put up: 31 targets / 23 receptions / for 237 yards / 2 TDs across those 10 games...Tonyan across the first 8 had put up 29 targets / 18 receptions / 204 yards and 2 TDs. When needed to Deguara showed up to a similar degree Tonyan did for nearly his entire career (2020 was an anomaly folks). 25% BUST IMO due to he is still in rookie deal, has shown surefire Hback NFL starter level work, but mixed in injury and a sub-par 2022 makes him not clean of the "bust flag" have justifiable arguments. 2023 could make this a 0% as much as it may make it a 75% or more...

2021 Amari Rodgers -
WR out of Clemson that was "destined" to be the next slot, YAC like Cobb WR in Green Bay. As has been hashed over time and time again - when we go outside our normal measurements for guys it hasn't faired well and Rodgers is one of the biggest swing and misses. Rodgers was productive in HOU the year he went there from us, but has been unable to make a roster this year and is presently on the Colts' PS. 98% BUST (not 100% because he is clinging to the league still unlike Stern).

2022 - Sean Rhyan -
Story isn't written enough for me to even put a % really with any confidence...but missing the entire first year due to league substance rules doesn't bode well.

2023 - Tucker Kraft - ZERO justification for any thing stated.

In summary Jace and Amari are 2 absolute busts IMO during Gute drafts. With Oren Burks not being a good pick, but not a bust pick also...and Josiah could play his way into either category based on what happens.

So out of 6 3rd rounders...2 atrocious failures, 1 that is unfair to say bust on but cannot be praised, another 1 that could swing either way and 2 "too early" types....the third is for sure not delivering how it should during Gute's reign...and the only time he went Defense is arguably the only time he found a surefire starter (albeit a ST starter).
 

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That third round as I've said if I'm Gute I'm done picking offensive guys...while Oren Burks didn't light it up, he has cemented himself as a very good ST guy and made a name for himself worthy of roster spot for a while now. History of third rounders for those wondering - and to be fair I argue one has done enough to not be thrown in with the others:

2018 Oren Burks - that hybrid tweener type ILB many thought was going to be that versatile pass coverage/side line to side line disrupter. He never saw more than 13% of the defensive snaps here in GB until that final year in 2021 when some injuries made it happen...but the dude is a ST stalwart and has shined in SF too in that capacity. 33% BUST IMO to what we hoped we got, but he is still an NFL level player for sure

2019 Jace Sternberger
- TE out of A&M that to Gute's credit many thought had versatile TE threat written all over him...issue was he couldn't digest a ton at the next level and makes one wonder if the college structure merely hid from many his inabilities. Very few snaps were given him and he was let go after two seasons...he recently TORE up the USFL but even with that is now a free agent again after Bills signed him in July only to release him then. 100% BUST IMO

2020 Josiah Deguara
- TE from Cincinnati, a school with a lot of great TE and he is near the top or is the top in many categories. H Backs normally don't go in the top 64 picks, but some trickle into the third as Gute made Deguara do. We all remember how before his rookie year injury, MLF made him a target of the offense right from the first snap of the preseason. His whole rookie year was essentially stolen from him, something many fail to remember. Then in 2021, despite Rodgers clearly not being a Josiah fan, when Tonyan went down Josiah had to be leaned on heavily - and look was he a Top 5-10 TE in that stretch of the league no, but dangit this cat was VERY CLOSE. From week 8 to week 16 this guy put up: 31 targets / 23 receptions / for 237 yards / 2 TDs across those 10 games...Tonyan across the first 8 had put up 29 targets / 18 receptions / 204 yards and 2 TDs. When needed to Deguara showed up to a similar degree Tonyan did for nearly his entire career (2020 was an anomaly folks). 25% BUST IMO due to he is still in rookie deal, has shown surefire Hback NFL starter level work, but mixed in injury and a sub-par 2022 makes him not clean of the "bust flag" have justifiable arguments. 2023 could make this a 0% as much as it may make it a 75% or more...

2021 Amari Rodgers -
WR out of Clemson that was "destined" to be the next slot, YAC like Cobb WR in Green Bay. As has been hashed over time and time again - when we go outside our normal measurements for guys it hasn't faired well and Rodgers is one of the biggest swing and misses. Rodgers was productive in HOU the year he went there from us, but has been unable to make a roster this year and is presently on the Colts' PS. 98% BUST (not 100% because he is clinging to the league still unlike Stern).

2022 - Sean Rhyan -
Story isn't written enough for me to even put a % really with any confidence...but missing the entire first year due to league substance rules doesn't bode well.

2023 - Tucker Kraft - ZERO justification for any thing stated.

In summary Jace and Amari are 2 absolute busts IMO during Gute drafts. With Oren Burks not being a good pick, but not a bust pick also...and Josiah could play his way into either category based on what happens.

So out of 6 3rd rounders...2 atrocious failures, 1 that is unfair to say bust on but cannot be praised, another 1 that could swing either way and 2 "too early" types....the third is for sure not delivering how it should during Gute's reign...and the only time he went Defense is arguably the only time he found a surefire starter (albeit a ST starter).
Thanks for the summary Ty! I forgot Rhyan was taken in the third.

Now that the TE room has been stocked with offensive potential, maybe Deguara will be allowed to do what he arguably does best, play FB. The FB seems to be on the endangered species list. But Deguara certainly has the size and strength to play the position, and it's more important to have an inline blocking TE now that Lewis is gone. I've heard the FB position is important in MLF's game plan, but I don't know why.

Your summary does bring back painful memories about Burks and Sternburger. I don't expect any draft to be perfect. But Gluten's misfires in round three are pretty glaring. I chalk that up to coincidence.
 

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Regardless of how Green Bay does, even if we win a couple super bowls in Gute's time, Amari will still be a guy that gets brought up when discussing his failures for sure.
My biggest knock on Gute, up until the 2022 draft, he didn't pay enough attention to the Receiving Room. Granted, Rodgers (and Adams) covered up a lot of the deficiencies, but there is only so much that one FHOF QB and WR can do. Amari was a total bust, but so was Gute's 4 years approach to the position.
 

tynimiller

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My biggest knock on Gute, up until the 2022 draft, he didn't pay enough attention to the Receiving Room. Granted, Rodgers (and Adams) covered up a lot of the deficiencies, but there is only so much that one FHOF QB and WR can do. Amari was a total bust, but so was Gute's 4 years approach to the position.

You have to clarify that stance more, you don't feel he paid enough attention to it on Day 1/2 of the draft on the room. Gute consistently and almost constantly targets athletic high RAS types on Day 3 for that room. At the time in the draft moments, the only time I've really truly disliked a lot or I guess you could say disagreed with the thought process of the pick and thought we should have went WR was actually the Love pick when I thought for sure we'd traded up for Pittman (or Higgins).

Otherwise, top 50 picks he's had have been:

2018
Jaire Alexander
- top flight CB at that time made a LOT of sense
Josh Jackson - TONS of people saw him as a 1st rounder, couldn't blame Gute
Neither of these picks at the time had a WR just screaming at us that arguably to me made intensely more sense. Sure I loved Calvin Ridley and Christian Kirk that year, but it was logical how Gute attacked this draft.

2019
Rashan Gary
Darnell Savage
Elgton Jenkins

None of these guys can one argue with Gute's direction, intersecting with team needs and just immense athletic profiles. This was NOT the year for WRs many thought then, and reflecting back on them that holds true and only retrospective abilities make you mad the likes of AJ Brown was there or Deebo...again cannot hold that against Gute even with the ability to look back. Savage was an absolute turnover machine and atheltically profiled as elite...no one saw the roller coaster of play before us then...and even if they had no elite WR was there...only two went in the first anyways this year.

2020
Jordan Love
*The only pick I believe 100% should have been a WR
AJ Dillon
Everyone can remember I loved these two prospects - BUT I didn't want us to pick a QB unless one fell to the second and I felt Dillon was not worth a pick till the 3rd given his positional value. This is the ONLY year I think there is actual argument that Gute overlooked the WR room almost intentionally....to the degree did he think we had something we didn't (a guy coming up? a trade that maybe fell through? what?). But Pittman and Higgins both were there (and I wasn't a Higgins fan personally if you remember)...but even in the second round there was Bryan Edwards that quite a few of us called was going to be successful (and has been a WR3 type when healthy, plus Devin Duvernay) but the guy if anyone remembers I loved was Gabriel Davis for Day2. I will admit though as far as those three go I can hear the argument that addition to the offense at that time I would have said was fairly much a wash between them and Dillon....only retrospectively confirms otherwise...but one could argue at that time if it was a wash, pick the position that appears to be the weakest...which if you look back though, you can understand Gute's thought process....Adams was here, Lazard had just had his "breakout" rookie year, MVS was a massive upside speed threat beginning to come into his own and an athletic big EQ that your QB seemed to praise whenever he had a chance....I concede the Dillon pick as "defendable" vs WR...but I forever will say at the time the Love pick for me if you cared about 2020/2021 seasons a WR was the pick you had to go with given Pittman and Higgins were there.

2021
Eric Stokes
Josh Myers

You cannot argue the logic of going after a top flight CB in the first and we desperately needed a starting Center...yes you can argue Myers did not fit the GB mold and RAS, but it didn't make sense not to address it. The only receivers that at the time fit the GB mold that one could argue were Nico Collins instead of Myers or maybe you argue Josh Palmer/Anthony Scwartz...but again I'm not making the case Myers wasn't the right position direction here vs WR. Yes those WRs arguably may have been a better NFL player now knowing what we know...but gotta separate that from the reflection of the picks.

2022
Quay Walker
Devonete Wyatt
Christian Watson

Defense and QB execution in the playoffs was a major issue and arguably to many we got two Top 10/15 prospects here.......and CIRCLED back to finally grab Gute's first top 50 pick at a WR....actually his first second round or higher WR.


So that is the top 50 picks...

I argue Gute's biggest issue is he didn't always focus on grabbing that one high RAS receiver that is there on Day 3 each year. Personally there are three positions I will always attempt to grab on Day 3:

A high RAS - "smaller" school starting LT with versatile background offensive lineman.
A high RAS - productive WR at any school or level relative to the school's style and QB play.
A high RAS OR highly productive RB from any school.

To me those are three positions adding bottom of the depth chart pressure is always something I love.

Gute ignoring WR in 2018, 2019 and 2020 was when the ship started having issues with grounding....
 

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You have to clarify that stance more, you don't feel he paid enough attention to it on Day 1/2 of the draft on the room. Gute consistently and almost constantly targets athletic high RAS types on Day 3 for that room.

Let's put it this way, Prior to 2022, via the draft or free agency, Gute was very unsuccessful at helping the WR or TE Rooms. Whether it was because he didn't put enough assets towards the 2 positions or the little he did mostly failed, all in all, he failed in my opinion.

In Free Agency, his biggest swing was Jimmy Graham. Which I would call a miss, for what he spent on Graham. Otherwise, he signed 2 washed up WR's (Funchess and Watkins) and an old WR he had previously let go, Cobb. In the draft, he took 4 swings at WR (3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th rounders), completely whiffing on 3 out of the 4. He did take two 3rd round swings at TE, but Sternberger was a bust and Deguara is just Meh as a blocking TE/FB. Maybe his best contribution at WR was Lazard, but Lazard was an UDFA, originally signed by Jacksonville.
 

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In Free Agency, his biggest swing was Jimmy Graham. Which I would call a miss, for what he spent on Graham.
Missed when he didn't re-sign Cook at TE. Rewatched the Dallas playoff game highlights recently and he was a stud even before the toe tapping sideline catch.
 

tynimiller

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Missed when he didn't re-sign Cook at TE. Rewatched the Dallas playoff game highlights recently and he was a stud even before the toe tapping sideline catch.
I’m trying to remember timeline, and on phone not in place to check, was that prior to Gute?
 

tynimiller

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Let's put it this way, Prior to 2022, via the draft or free agency, Gute was very unsuccessful at helping the WR or TE Rooms. Whether it was because he didn't put enough assets towards the 2 positions or the little he did mostly failed, all in all, he failed in my opinion.

In Free Agency, his biggest swing was Jimmy Graham. Which I would call a miss, for what he spent on Graham. Otherwise, he signed 2 washed up WR's (Funchess and Watkins) and an old WR he had previously let go, Cobb. In the draft, he took 4 swings at WR (3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th rounders), completely whiffing on 3 out of the 4. He did take two 3rd round swings at TE, but Sternberger was a bust and Deguara is just Meh as a blocking TE/FB. Maybe his best contribution at WR was Lazard, but Lazard was an UDFA, originally signed by Jacksonville.

Oh for sure if we include free agency I think criticalness to Gute in that same timeframe escalates, I was purely speaking to his draft decisions in his reign.

Low level WR3 some days WR2 veteran level receiver was something I still don’t understand we didn’t try and get.
 

mradtke66

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Missed when he didn't re-sign Cook at TE. Rewatched the Dallas playoff game highlights recently and he was a stud even before the toe tapping sideline catch.

However made the call, that wasn't the Packer's FO mistake.

Packers offered Cook a deal. His agent rejected it. We snagged Bennett for less money (this was seen as a good trade up, and likely would have, had Rodgers not gotten hurt and then Bennett gave us. Jerk.)

Cook ends up signing with the Raiders for less than our initial contract offer. There are rumors Cook then fired his agent, potentially for bad advise on his actual value.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Low level WR3 some days WR2 veteran level receiver was something I still don’t understand we didn’t try and get.
I really think it started with TT, although he was pretty successful at finding Rodgers a lot of quality receivers, he let the well run dry after Devante. I don't like to blame Rodgers for this, but indirectly, because he did more with less, I think both GM's threw too many resources at the defense and in many cases, not successfully.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I’m trying to remember timeline, and on phone not in place to check, was that prior to Gute?
Yes, that was a TT mistake.


However made the call, that wasn't the Packer's FO mistake.

While I kind of see your point, I think Cook would have signed with the Packers, had they not low balled him. He did get less money, but the Packers could have stayed in the negotiations, I assume they didn't. Bennett was a major league bad move.
 
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Regardless of how Green Bay does, even if we win a couple super bowls in Gute's time, Amari will still be a guy that gets brought up when discussing his failures for sure.
Amari is that Shemar Jean Charles 4-5 RAS guy that flashed some in college and at those positions (CB/WR) a poor RAS is often a detriment to success. I prefer those smaller guys to be a little more athletic (such as Reed or Cobb) coming into the NFL.

I also wonder if Amari having ties to Cobb didn’t have some play in our decision to draft him. Hiring on the family and friends plan also isn’t a good formula with few exceptions. However these are things sometimes done to appease the “angry Gods” and I’ll let you decide who that was. Sorry if that offended any worshippers
 
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Schultz

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1. Poker, on Bennet is that hindsight or did you not like the move from the get go?
2. Tyni, I also hope the day 3 WR had kick returning skills.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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1. Poker, on Bennet is that hindsight or did you not like the move from the get go?
Excellent point and I couldn't remember how I reacted, so I went back to the original thread. My first post on the subject (page 7 #162).

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/martellus-bennet.72374/page-7

Interesting Tweets from Jared Cook:

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago

A lot of misinformation out there..I definitely did NOT turn down a deal...but one thing I can say for certain...

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago
Thank you packers fans for such a epic experience. Had a great year, played w/some great teammates. Thanks for the support! You are amazing!


My Second post verifies your hunch @Schultz: (Page 8 #177)

While I am pretty happy with the Bennett-Kendricks signings, a Cook-Bennett signing would have been even better and bordered on being Belichickesque. Let's hope TT is using the few million saved towards improving the defense.

My Second post shows that I was fine with TT signing Bennett....so what TF do I know? :)
 
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Excellent point and I couldn't remember how I reacted, so I went back to the original thread. My first post on the subject (page 7 #162).

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/martellus-bennet.72374/page-7

Interesting Tweets from Jared Cook:

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago

A lot of misinformation out there..I definitely did NOT turn down a deal...but one thing I can say for certain...

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago
Thank you packers fans for such a epic experience. Had a great year, played w/some great teammates. Thanks for the support! You are amazing!


My Second post verifies your hunch @Schultz: (Page 8 #177)

While I am pretty happy with the Bennett-Kendricks signings, a Cook-Bennett signing would have been even better and bordered on being Belichickesque. Let's hope TT is using the few million saved towards improving the defense.

My Second post shows that I was fine with TT signing Bennett....so what TF do I know? :)
At least you put Cook first. You and me and anyone on earth had every right to think Bennett was legit. (Amos was) Nobody really knows without using hindsight so no harm no foul imo. If we can’t talk about the past we’re in for a world of hurt. I Might as well hang up the forum cleats and everyone else with me.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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At least you put Cook first. You and me and anyone on earth had every right to think Bennett was legit. (Amos was) Nobody really knows without using hindsight so no harm no foul imo. If we can’t talk about the past we’re in for a world of hurt. I Might as well hang up the forum cleats and everyone else with me.
True, but I acknowledge that I was fine with the move when it was made. If I remember correctly and I probably don't, I liked Kendricks potential and he ended up being a nothing burger as well.
 

mradtke66

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While I kind of see your point, I think Cook would have signed with the Packers, had they not low balled him. He did get less money, but the Packers could have stayed in the negotiations, I assume they didn't. Bennett was a major league bad move.

But was he low-balled? Or based on the contract he ultimately received, did TT properly assess his value?

Circa 2017, was 2 years, 10.6M, 5M guaranteed a low ball offer? That's what he got from the Raiders. Bennett received 3 years, 21M, 6.3M guaranteed.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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But was he low-balled? Or based on the contract he ultimately received, did TT properly assess his value?
The situation is slowly coming back to my memory. Heck, I even posted Cook's twitter comments back then. According to Cook, he never turned down a deal in Green Bay. So did that mean he was never offered a contract in Green Bay? Sounds like it and if true, it was a mistake in my opinion.


Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago
A lot of misinformation out there..I definitely did NOT turn down a deal...but one thing I can say for certain...

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago
Thank you packers fans for such a epic experience. Had a great year, played w/some great teammates. Thanks for the support! You are amazing!
 

Pokerbrat2000

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What I can say without hesitation, it turned out to be a big mistake not to resign Cook. Appears his football career is done, but until and including his final year, 2021, he put up some really solid numbers.

 

Schultz

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Excellent point and I couldn't remember how I reacted, so I went back to the original thread. My first post on the subject (page 7 #162).

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/martellus-bennet.72374/page-7

Interesting Tweets from Jared Cook:

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago

A lot of misinformation out there..I definitely did NOT turn down a deal...but one thing I can say for certain...

Jared Cook‏Verified account @JaredCook89 15h15 hours ago
Thank you packers fans for such a epic experience. Had a great year, played w/some great teammates. Thanks for the support! You are amazing!


My Second post verifies your hunch @Schultz: (Page 8 #177)

While I am pretty happy with the Bennett-Kendricks signings, a Cook-Bennett signing would have been even better and bordered on being Belichickesque. Let's hope TT is using the few million saved towards improving the defense.

My Second post shows that I was fine with TT signing Bennett....so what TF do I know? :)
I am not throwing shade at all. I find myself not sure if I remember initial reactions, or hindsight reactions. I do absolutely remember this. I thought for sure the 2020 draft would yield a top tier WR. In my perfect world it would have been Claypool because I felt they could get him in round 2. So like you said WTF do I know.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I am not throwing shade at all. I find myself not sure if I remember initial reactions, or hindsight reactions. I do absolutely remember this. I thought for sure the 2020 draft would yield a top tier WR. In my perfect world it would have been Claypool because I felt they could get him in round 2. So like you said WTF do I know.
LOL...I wanted Claypool as well. Turns out we probably were both wrong. That said, who knows what Claypool would have done in GB. Seems that we are all guilty of looking at what players did, in different circumstances and thinking it would be the same, no matter what. I'd put money on it, in an alternative universe, one decision, one act, can change things.
 

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