The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

[Sunshinepacker]

As an example. New England in 2018 threw BOTH first round selections at OT and RB
In 2017 they went OG day 2
In 2016 they took a OG and QB day 2
In 2014 they took a QB day 2

That’s SIX picks before 3rd day.
2-1st rounders
1-2nd rounder
3-3rd rounders



In that 5 year span GB took on Offense:
ZERO-1st rounders
2-2nd rounders
1–3rd rounder

I used NE because it was the first team that came to mind as being successful at injecting talent into their Offense.

This is a little disingenuous. Just citing draft position doesn't really tell anyone anything. If where a guy was drafted meant anything, then the Packers would have an elite defense.

The Patriots have a good oline, but it certainly isn't because of where they've prioritized drafting olinemen. That 2017, day 2 selection is currently playing for the Colts because the Pats waived him, so that was a BAD pick for the Pats. The 2016 selection of Joe Thuney in round 3 was a good pick as he's been good for them. The Pats best olineman is Shaq Mason, a fourth round pick.

The Pats starting center is an undrafted free agent from the 2015 draft, their starting right tackle was a fifth round pick in 2011, and their starting left tackle was a 7th round pick by the 49ers in the 2015 draft.

So spending all those picks early doesn't really mean much and it would appear that the Pats actually have better luck waiting until day three or later to draft olinemen. Really what I think it shows is that elite QBs (like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) tend to make their olines a lot better.

The Packers have a VERY good RB already in Jones so I don't really see that as a particularly major need at the moment. Yes, the Packers need help on the oline, but really only at RG unless the team moves on from Bulaga.

 

[brandon2348]

This is a little disingenuous. Just citing draft position doesn't really tell anyone anything. If where a guy was drafted meant anything, then the Packers would have an elite defense.

The Patriots have a good oline, but it certainly isn't because of where they've prioritized drafting olinemen. That 2017, day 2 selection is currently playing for the Colts because the Pats waived him, so that was a BAD pick for the Pats. The 2016 selection of Joe Thuney in round 3 was a good pick as he's been good for them. The Pats best olineman is Shaq Mason, a fourth round pick.

The Pats starting center is an undrafted free agent from the 2015 draft, their starting right tackle was a fifth round pick in 2011, and their starting left tackle was a 7th round pick by the 49ers in the 2015 draft.

So spending all those picks early doesn't really mean much and it would appear that the Pats actually have better luck waiting until day three or later to draft olinemen. Really what I think it shows is that elite QBs (like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, etc.) tend to make their olines a lot better.

The Packers have a VERY good RB already in Jones so I don't really see that as a particularly major need at the moment. Yes, the Packers need help on the oline, but really only at RG unless the team moves on from Bulaga.

We are suffering from a cumulative effect of spending our premium draft capital on defensive picks year after year. On top of that most of them were bad picks.

Now we are at a fork in the road with a new coach and a 35 year old franchise QB and people are running out of people to blame. That's how losing operations go. They "get worse" and continue to make the same idiotic mistakes over and over again.

The packers most definitely need to veer the right way at the fork in the road and start doing things differently breaking this "losing cycle" were in. That starts with getting Rodgers some legitimate help upfront along with dynamic play makers.

If they dont say hello to 4-12 cause that's where were headed.

 

[rmontro]

How bad was their defense in those years?

We've drafted heavily for years at the expense of the offense, yet our defense hasn't gotten any better. In the last several years we've seen cracks appear in the offense. Since we have Rodgers, presumably it would be playing to our strength at least to make sure the offense is taken care of.

In light of that, I would not object to an offense-heavy draft for a change. But if nothing else, at least restore balance to the draft so both sides of the ball are being served.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't really have an opinion on this, but I've heard so many people say that Brady has taken less, including former players. If it's not true, it made me wonder why so many people say it. So what about these articles?:

https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-contract-discounts-patriots-bargain-2018-7

https://www.theringer.com/2017/1/27...t-restructure-patriots-super-bowl-e18ede48f08

https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-less-money-contract-2013-2

Once again, Brady has restructured his contract multiple times resulting in a lot of experts and fans having the impression that he has taken less money.

Brady will have accounted for a total of $140.5 million of cap hit since 2011 after next season while the Packers will have allocated a total of $151 million of cap space towards Rodgers over the past nine years.

Therefore the Patriots have saved $1.2 million per season on a quarterback six years older than Rodgers. I think Brady allowing New England to field a competitve team by taking significantly less money is a myth.

 

[Half Empty]

The Brady/Rodgers salary discussion first needs an agreed baseline. Is it more reasonable to lay out the contracts on a calendar year basis (i.e., 2011-2019 as the Capt does) or the year of being in the league (i.e. 2000 for Brady = 2005 for AR). How about percent of cap hit (Brady was over 12% this year and 2008, AR was over 12% every year but this year since 2014)? Maybe total or average (Brady has $207 total, $11 avg, AR has 205.8 for 14.7 - but wait, Brady was a 6th rounder and came in with a lower cap)?

I really have not idea what's fair, but after going over https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/ and https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/ trying to come up with a decision myself, the headache just isn't worth it.

 

[gbgary]

just remember steve young's still the only SB winning qb with a cap hit of above 13% (13.1)...and that was the first year of the cap (1994) and he already had a stacked team.
"Only four quarterbacks have ever won a Super Bowl while accounting for at least 11% of their team’s cap room: Young, Peyton Manning (twice), Tom Brady and Eli Manning."
this puts GB in a particularly bad spot because the Packers need to offer free agents more just to play in GB. painting themselves into a corner with the Rodgers contract was horrible thinking. add thompson's last few drafts and you end up where we are.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/02/nfl-quarterback-salaries-salary-cap-kirk-cousins-free-agency

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

this puts GB in a particularly bad spot because the Packers need to offer free agents more just to play in GB. painting themselves into a corner with the Rodgers contract was horrible thinking. add thompson's last few drafts and you end up where we are.

But if Rodgers was so dedicated to GB, like he say's, why doesn't he give back some of those big $$$$
for funding to get quality players in camp.

 

[Half Empty]

Interesting idea - hadn't heard that before.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But if Rodgers was so dedicated to GB, like he say's, why doesn't he give back some of those big $$$$
for funding to get quality players in camp.

I can think of a million or 2 reasons why he doesn't.

Personally, I feel this whole "I will reduce my money demands in order to better the team" is kind of a fallacy. It may happen occasionally, but for fans to expect it or criticize a player for not doing it, is living in a bit of a fantasy world.

Maybe the Packers should have a team meeting and everybody agrees to take a 10% pay cut, to better the team?

 

[OldSchool101]

I can think of a million or 2 reasons why he doesn't.

Personally, I feel this whole "I will reduce my money demands in order to better the team" is kind of a fallacy. It may happen occasionally, but for fans to expect it or criticize a player for not doing it, is living in a bit of a fantasy world.

Maybe the Packers should have a team meeting and everybody agrees to take a 10% pay cut, to better the team?

Don’t stop with it there. Let’s all do it! Or we could pool our credit and start a GBP hedge fund. With that kinda commitment.. we could convince Aaron to match us

 

[rmontro]

I really have not idea what's fair, but after going over https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250/ and https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/ trying to come up with a decision myself, the headache just isn't worth it.

Lol, that is exactly how I feel, it's too much of a headache. I feel like there is some smoke here, but I just don't care enough to dig into it

You make a good point about Brady being in the league longer though, and starting at a 6th round pick. The longer a star is in the league, the more he is going to make, up to a certain point. And Brady's value obviously hasn't started to fall yet.

just remember steve young's still the only SB winning qb with a cap hit of above 13% (13.1)

That's worrisome, but if I'm not mistaken, Rodgers cap hit over the next several years remains under 13%. Wimm or someone else would have to come up with the numbers though, because I'm too lazy. I'm just going by memory here. I was thinking it was around 11-something.

 

[Half Empty]

Over The Cap has Rodgers at 13.9% next year and 16.3% in 2020. Nothing after that (overall cap to uncertain?), but his cap hit keeps going up, so I doubt if the percentage is going to decrease.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is a little disingenuous. Just citing draft position doesn't really tell anyone anything. If where a guy was drafted meant anything, then the Packers would have an elite defense.

Disingenuous? Is this Ted Thompson posing as a forum member?
Just because we have largely failed in utilizing the draft recently does NOT set the precedent that the draft pick order no longer has no value because of it.
It isn’t some secret that the higher the overall pick, the higher the production (although the way it’s worked out for GB I can see how you would believe that) . If that was not the case there wouldn’t be a draft calculator.

 

[rmontro]

Over The Cap has Rodgers at 13.9% next year and 16.3% in 2020. Nothing after that (overall cap to uncertain?), but his cap hit keeps going up, so I doubt if the percentage is going to decrease.

Is that right? Well, that doesn't sound promising.

 

[gbgary]

But if Rodgers was so dedicated to GB, like he say's, why doesn't he give back some of those big $$$$
for funding to get quality players in camp.

it's a new contract and he's thirty freaking five. it's not like he's got half his career still ahead of him. the time for being self aware was back then (for the team and him) was back then...not now. it's too late.

 

[gbgary]

Over The Cap has Rodgers at 13.9% next year and 16.3% in 2020. Nothing after that (overall cap to uncertain?), but his cap hit keeps going up, so I doubt if the percentage is going to decrease.

no one knows what the cap will be in 2021 so that's why there's no % after 2020. the contract with the players union also expires after the 2020 season too. get ready for that. smh

 

[gbgary]

Is that right? Well, that doesn't sound promising.

yup. https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/

 

[brandon2348]

Aaron Rodgers contract has nothing to do with this team failing. Yes, it makes it more difficult to sign a ton of big name free agents but we have and have had way way worse contracts on the books then Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers still gives us the best chance to win. The failure in where were at is the failure of just not allocating all our high picks on defense but particularly in the secondary. Until the Packers can figure this out and start being more efficient in the draft it wont matter what Rodgers contract is.

 

[rmontro]

it's a new contract and he's thirty freaking five. it's not like he's got half his career still ahead of him. the time for being self aware was back then (for the team and him) was back then...not now. it's too late.

Rodgers seemed more interested in trying to set precedents that would help give other players more pay than in trying to help out the team. Recall at one point there was talk of him wanting all guaranteed money, for example.

yup. https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-rodgers/1085/

Looks like a handy site, I'll have to remember that. I see Rodgers' cap percentage this year is 11.8%, that must have been where I got that "11" number.

Looking up Brady, I see he is at 12.4% this year. But next year he goes up to 14.2%, so if he were to win the Super Bowl NEXT year, he would pass that 13.1% barrier. It wouldn't surprise me if Brady was the guy who could do it. By the way, talk was last year that he was done giving pay breaks to the Patriots (real or imagined).

 

[Patriotplayer90]

The complaints about Rodgers' contract are a result of a spoiled, delusional fan base. This has been a bad team with an exceptional QB for years, and that goes far beyond the portion of the cap allocated to him. They've never been able to use the rest of the cap on a quality team. He wasn't holding them back from doing so over the past decade, and he won't moving forward.

 

[brandon2348]

The wounds Ted Thompson caused go deeper then even what I thought.

 

[Poppa San]

Looks like a handy site, I'll have to remember that.

This thread escapes you?

 

[rmontro]

The complaints about Rodgers' contract are a result of a spoiled, delusional fan base. This has been a bad team with an exceptional QB for years, and that goes far beyond the portion of the cap allocated to him. They've never been able to use the rest of the cap on a quality team. He wasn't holding them back from doing so over the past decade, and he won't moving forward.

Wow, that's harsh. Aside from the remarks about the spoiled, delusional fan base though, I can't disagree with it.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Ok here's one:
I'll take a young,"fire in his belly for football" Patrick Mahomes then a aging over paid QB right now
that can relate to the young players that we'll draft soon.

Yeah, I know, he'll be looking for a multimillion dollar contract soon also if he keeps playing at this level soon.

 

[brandon2348]

Ok here's one:
I'll take a young,"fire in his belly for football" Patrick Mahomes then a aging over paid QB right now
that can relate to the young players that we'll draft soon.

Yeah, I know, he'll be looking for a multimillion dollar contract soon also if he keeps playing at this level soon.

See, this is where Packer fans have been spoiled and are delusional is since we've had back to back HOF QB's people forget how hard it is to get one.

Just going and drafing another Pattrick Mahommes isnt quite that easy. Some teams even go generations trying to get a franchise QB.