The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

[Un4GivN]

It baffles me how this is an issue now when it wasn't an issue before.

I'll say it again. Aaron Rodgers has always been this way. Always. But now because the team is losing, it has to be because of the lack of leadership from Aaron Rodgers. It's just insane.

As an aside though, I would implore you to find even one post game presser in 2018 in which Rodgers didn't also say that he himself needed to play better. You might be able to find one, but I listen to every single one of them and I would say 90+ percent of the time, he says the team needs to play better and that it starts with him as the leader of the football team.

Does this baffle you then?

I have been speaking to Aaron's attitude and leadership since last year... While I in way blame him for the season, I think there is a better approach to your peers than the one he frequently uses.

Lol you could be right, maybe I just block it out of memory. It's to painful to remember!

This is from 2016 and I have been saying it since the year before that on these forums... The Packers haven't had a true leader since Woodson left.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interviews like this one with Rodgers former teammate Brady Poppinga help me to think that Rodgers teammates aren't seeing that much of a different #12 in regards to his demeanor. Perhaps because the comments are being made more public in the media, fans are offended, but still sounds like the same old same old #12.

https://www.foxsports.com/san-diego/video/1300582979946

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Does this baffle you then?



This is from 2016 and I have been saying it since the year before that on these forums... The Packers haven't had a true leader since Woodson left.

Yet, the Packer organization made him the highest paid player in the NFL. So either the organization are idiots or they didn't view Rodgers ability to lead as a big problem

While I get what you are saying about A-Rod and maybe you and I don't like his personality, but for me the bottom line is the organization and his teammates seem to be happy with the guy, so us fans and the media can make him out to be anything we want, but that won't change who he is or the fact that he will most likely be the Packers QB until he retires.

 

[Un4GivN]

Yet, the Packer organization made him the highest paid player in the NFL. So either the organization are idiots or they didn't view Rodgers ability to lead as a big problem

While I get what you are saying about A-Rod and maybe you and I don't like his personality, but for me the bottom line is the organization and his teammates seem to be happy with the guy, so us fans and the media can make him out to be anything we want, but that won't change who he is or the fact that he will most likely be the Packers QB until he retires.

I didn't say kick the guy to the curb either... His arm and leg talent make him a top 5 qb in the NFL most years.

My two point I made are:

1. He has leadership issues, always has and always will. He makes highly questionable remarks of coaches, teammates, and management. No one is perfect though, which is why I still agree with him being the highest paid NFL player. But acting as though a problem doesn't exist, isn't true either.

2. He had a poor season, like really poor for him. Can he get back to form? For the Packers and Packers fans sake I sure hope so. Or it is going to be a depressing at least 4 more years in titletown.

I have faith though, and right now that is about all we got going for us.

 

[PackAttack12]

Does this baffle you then?



This is from 2016 and I have been saying it since the year before that on these forums... The Packers haven't had a true leader since Woodson left.

But that was after the Redskins game when the Packers dropped to 4-6, similar situation to what the Packers were in after 10 games of this season. You mentioned in that thread that you had been talking about his lack of leadership since last year (which at the time would have been 2015). Why is that relevant? Because that's when Rodgers' historically great play sort of fell off (after 6 games).

So again, my point is simple. Why is Aaron Rodgers' "lack of leadership" only a problem with the team is losing? He's always been the same guy. Since he became a starter, he's always been the same guy. You can like it or hate it or whatever, but that's the reality of the situation.

All I'm saying is that his demeanor, or leadership style, whatever you want to call it, is NOT the reason the Packers are losing football games. And this stuff is almost never brought up when the team is winning. Why now?

Makes no sense to me.

 

[Do7]

I never said that he didn't speak to them privately as he most likely tried that first. Again, that is not what I am stating... I am saying it serves the team no purpose to publicly call these players out. All you are doing is setting up a scenario where you have someone else to blame. Which is what everyone is doing now. Ohh it's the routes, the young receivers, no separation, the offensive line, the running game, the play calling, the coaching, etc.

When in reality the receivers could easily call out Rodgers for being bottom half in accuracy. How do you think that would go over... Hey Davante what happened in the game today, "Well it was quite the **** poor performance by Aaron, I had a wide open touchdown that he missed by 5 yards. Then he spike the ball at my feet on third down. Overall just not the effort I would expect from him. "

It has been true on a number of occasions this year. So in your mind he would be OK doing that? Just because he in questionably the best player on the team in 2018? But did you hear them complain... No. Why? Because It serves no purpose, they are professionals and know when they make errors. Players and coaches go over film to correct them internally. Ousting your teammate to the reporters, doesn't help anyone. The coaches know and if it continues to happen that is there job to cut or fix it.

But Aaron can go around throwing his hands in the air in disgust, yelling at his receivers, calling coaches, receivers, gm out to the media. And its all good, because he is Sir Aaron the leader of the Pack!

Again where you see it as calling people out, I see it as giving an assessment. I feel like we're going back and forth in regarding this. Like I said earlier, it's not like Rodgers held a conference to talk about how the receivers were fairing. He was asked and he gave his honest ASSESSMENT. I already explained the difference between calling people out and answering a question and giving an honest assessment. If you don't like his answer, that's on you. One minute we have issues with Rodgers not being direct, if not something else. On top of that let's not forget it was freaking preseason for crying out loud! Rodgers knows a handful is only gonna make the cut so perhaps just maybe that was a way for his way of helping motivate the group as a whole. B/c lord knows if Rodgers shows favoritism for one receiver there would be headlines regarding that. So again you would have me if this was the REGULAR season, in which he technically did when he called the offense, INCLUDING himself in the win against Buffalo, saying that they need to play better.

I don't see how I set up any scenario when in my last sentence I said Rodgers needs to PLAY better. So there goes your entire argument right there. And let's go with the Devante example:Rodgers would've already in likeliness called himself out before Devante did. You would have a point if Rodgers didn't call himself out for when he performs poorly, even when he does well, he would sometimes be critical on himself for missing open receivers and throws. He's a perfectionist. See my thing is you'd have me if Rodgers wouldn't call himself out on his performance but the thing is he does hold himself accountable. The fact you're taking issue with him over giving an honest assessment of how the receivers are doing in PRESEASON, in which they are fighting for a roster spot and no one has separated themselves is alarming.

When the hell has he yelled at his receivers!? I am getting so sick and tired of people bringing up this point when I have ASKED for proof of Rodgers doing this to a player and I have YET to see someone give an example! I've already shown one regarding Cutler yelling at his Oline men. Show me Rodgers yelling at one of his receivers. Him throwing his hands could be many other factors than just his receivers. I've seen Rodgers get rocked to the ground and throw his hands up towards the official looking for a flag, but not getting one. I admit he shows visible disappointment when a receiver misses a good thrown ball, but EVERY QB has done that. Including Brees!

Let's get one thing straight, I've said time and time and time again that Rodgers needs to play better on the field and I have constantly gotten on him when he stinks up the joint. Rodgers has pretty much been the same person in regards to when we were having winning seasons, and now b/c he uncharacteristically has one where he struggles, it's because he's not a good leader and throw people under the bus and not hold himself accountable? You'll have to forgive me if I don't take that part seriously.

I don't absolve him just because he's Sir Aaron Rodgers. But if there is something I feel that's overblown, out of proportion, or complete bs I'll call people out on it.
My loyalty is to The Packers and it will be long after Aaron Rodgers hangs up the helmet.

 

[Un4GivN]

But that was after the Redskins game when the Packers dropped to 4-6, similar situation to what the Packers were in after 10 games of this season. You mentioned in that thread that you had been talking about his lack of leadership since last year (which at the time would have been 2015). Why is that relevant? Because that's when Rodgers' historically great play sort of fell off (after 6 games).

So again, my point is simple. Why is Aaron Rodgers' "lack of leadership" only a problem with the team is losing? He's always been the same guy. Since he became a starter, he's always been the same guy. You can like it or hate it or whatever, but that's the reality of the situation.

All I'm saying is that his demeanor, or leadership style, whatever you want to call it, is NOT the reason the Packers are losing football games. And this stuff is almost never brought up when the team is winning. Why now?

Makes no sense to me.

Leadership is needed in adversity... Not in times of success.

That is when Rodgers help bring down the ship not keep it up. Like when the speech from Woodson in halftime after injuries to himself and Driver galvanized the team. That eventually led to the super bowl.

 

[PackAttack12]

Leadership is needed in adversity... Not in times of success.

So was it dumb luck that the Packers ended up winning the next 6 games to finish the season that year and make it to the NFC Championship game? I guess Rodgers had nothing to do with exhibiting leadership during that stretch, huh?

 

[Un4GivN]

Again where you see it as calling people out, I see it as giving an assessment. I feel like we're going back and forth in regarding this. Like I said earlier, it's not like Rodgers held a conference to talk about how the receivers were fairing. He was asked and he gave his honest ASSESSMENT. I already explained the difference between calling people out and answering a question and giving an honest assessment. If you don't like his answer, that's on you. One minute we have issues with Rodgers not being direct, if not something else. On top of that let's not forget it was freaking preseason for crying out loud! Rodgers knows a handful is only gonna make the cut so perhaps just maybe that was a way for his way of helping motivate the group as a whole. B/c lord knows if Rodgers shows favoritism for one receiver there would be headlines regarding that. So again you would have me if this was the REGULAR season, in which he technically did when he called the offense, INCLUDING himself in the win against Buffalo, saying that they need to play better.

I don't see how I set up any scenario when in my last sentence I said Rodgers needs to PLAY better. So there goes your entire argument right there. And let's go with the Devante example:Rodgers would've already in likeliness called himself out before Devante did. You would have a point if Rodgers didn't call himself out for when he performs poorly, even when he does well, he would sometimes be critical on himself for missing open receivers and throws. He's a perfectionist. See my thing is you'd have me if Rodgers wouldn't call himself out on his performance but the thing is he does hold himself accountable. The fact you're taking issue with him over giving an honest assessment of how the receivers are doing in PRESEASON, in which they are fighting for a roster spot and no one has separated themselves is alarming.

When the hell has he yelled at his receivers!? I am getting so sick and tired of people bringing up this point when I have ASKED for proof of Rodgers doing this to a player and I have YET to see someone give an example! I've already shown one regarding Cutler yelling at his Oline men. Show me Rodgers yelling at one of his receivers. Him throwing his hands could be many other factors than just his receivers. I've seen Rodgers get rocked to the ground and throw his hands up towards the official looking for a flag, but not getting one. I admit he shows visible disappointment when a receiver misses a good thrown ball, but EVERY QB has done that. Including Brees!

Let's get one thing straight, I've said time and time and time again that Rodgers needs to play better on the field and I have constantly gotten on him when he stinks up the joint. Rodgers has pretty much been the same person in regards to when we were having winning seasons, and now b/c he uncharacteristically has one where he struggles, it's because he's not a good leader and throw people under the bus and not hold himself accountable? You'll have to forgive me if I don't take that part seriously.

I don't absolve him just because he's Sir Aaron Rodgers. But if there is something I feel that's overblown, out of proportion, or complete bs I'll call people out on it.
My loyalty is to The Packers and it will be long after Aaron Rodgers hangs up the helmet.

I got to look for game tape when I get home... But here is a couple one with McCarthy, one with the offensive line. Honestly, it happens all the time, I really started to wonder how much you watch games.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1365561/aaronmad.gif

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[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packer team as a whole has been on a backward slide even prior to Rodgers shoulder injury last year. It actually would have been interesting to see how they would have fared in 2017 with a healthy Rodgers. I know many of us want to blame Hundley for everything and point to the fact that the Packers were 4-1 when Rodgers went down, but the writing was on the wall before his shoulder injury. The Packers got to 4-1 beating the Bears, who weren't very good in 2017, coming back from being down 21-7 to beat the Bengals in OT at home.

Not sure why I brought all this up, since the Packer organization obviously saw that the abysmal 2017 season wasn't strictly on the loss of #12 and they made a change at both GM and DC. But I guess in my head, as many have stated before, Rodgers had the ability to cover up a lot of the deficiencies of the Packers and this year, he wasn't up to that task. Change is coming and I think that will do both Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers good.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Even the great Tom Brady has had his moments as does Drew Brees, but they are currently competing to make it to the Super Bowl, so who cares.

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https://www.12up.com/posts/6200977-...young-saints-wr-is-actually-quite-frightening

 

[Un4GivN]

Even the great Tom Brady has had his moments as does Drew Brees, but they are currently competing to make it to the Super Bowl, so who cares.

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https://www.12up.com/posts/6200977-...young-saints-wr-is-actually-quite-frightening

Tom yells all the time, when did I say he didn't? I can also find 100 of these of Tom. That doesn't make it right. Tom also is much more motivational than Aaron. Not to mention I'm not sure I have ever heard Tom Brady call out his teammate individually to reporters.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/tom-brady-is-pumped-up-against-cowboys.gif?w=1000

 

[ls1bob]

I think this year was an anomaly. Our game plan was squat at the beginning of the first game with the Bears and Aaron got hurt and IMO it set the tone for the season.It was an uphill battle all year with us making a step forward and sliding back. I fully believe Aaron will be back with an MVP year next year. I think Gute has a plan and vision for this team and he is going to make it work one way or the other.

 

[Un4GivN]

So was it dumb luck that the Packers ended up winning the next 6 games to finish the season that year and make it to the NFC Championship game? I guess Rodgers had nothing to do with exhibiting leadership during that stretch, huh?

I didn't say that they lost because of Rodgers either, I said his leadership in adversity is sub-par in adversity.

I think if you read my whole post it literally says, I don't think it was all on Rodgers. Just one thing that I noticed.

This year he also has a part to play as the 27th ranked QB in accuracy, that isn't because of receivers... Or play design... Or coaching... he wasn't accurate.

You are just really black and white, so when I say he lacks leadership. Then he must suck! Not the case at all, but when your accuracy falls, your team is losing, then lack of leadership really shows.

 

[Do7]

You know what I'm gonna humor you. I'm gonna do something I never done and break down ever point you made one by one.

1) I never said Brady, Brees or Favre for that matter never yelled or get in/Got in their teammates faces - on the contrary. However you wont see them throw Anyone under the bus like Rodgers has ...

1. You said and I quote "Very rarely, if at all (I can only remember once Brady has complained publically) do you see Brady, Brees pr Favre, for that matter publically critize their team mates. Yes, they get in their teammates face during games, however, they move on quickly after that.

You just shot yourself in the foot dude. You just said they don't publicly criticize there teammates and yet you said they get in their teammates faces during the game. Guys help me out here. Is that not public? I could wrong, but I believe that is public.

Next you say I won't see them throw anyone under the bus like Rodgers has. Alright let's hear it then. When has Rodgers thrown a teammate under the bus? And no I will not accept the one about him giving his assessment regarding the receivers during the PRESEASON. If Rodgers is as bad as you claim, you can find me some other examples of where he's thrown teammates under the bus publically. If you need me to give you an example I used the one in regards to Big Ben throwing AB and Juju under the bus in regards to that dumb costly pick against The Broncos a few weeks back. So please enlighten us please.

1)
Might want to read what is written before you reply to something “You think was meant” ...

Fair enough. You may want to try to better your points without contradicting yourself.

2) obviously you and I haven’t been watching the same games, because it seems that according to you Rodgers is never at fault ... - There are numerous games were (The “GoaT” ...) Rodgers had ample opportunity, however - in your optics that was probably the o-Lines fault / the WRs fault / wrong Play call ... / <insert what-ever-asinine-excuse-you-have-here>.

Bottom Line is, Rodgers isn’t without fault, which is the only thing some of us here have said ... None of us are disputing his qualities or Football talent ... - I am disputing the notion that he is “seldom” to blame though ...

...Really?

Can someone explain to me how we were in Seattle territory 3 times in the third quarter without putting up any points?
I get we weren't 100% but this was ours for the taking.

I agree that this had better be McCarthy's last season, but I will not be defending Rodgers tomorrow. This one is on him and the offense.

The defense imo did their part to hold up, but with so many 3 and outs by the offense it was only a matter of time before the dam broke. Pitiful!

I'd rather do a quick checkdown and get a first down and extend the play, rather than failing on the big home run plays. It's called picking your spots. I like Rodgers as much as the next guy and I will defend him when I don't believe he is to blame, but there were several times he missed open receivers for the big play and well as not dump it off when Seattle went to blitz him. Rodgers was a MASTER at handling blitzes. Teams feared to blitz him because of how quick and lethal he was. Same for Brady in this case, but both QBs are struggling with the blitz this year for some reason.

I never said this season was over, but typically Rodgers is missing throws he normally makes, and is missing players that are wide open. Something is wrong. I think he's seeing phantoms is all. I still believe we can turn this ship around.

As you can see I have been critical of Rodgers and his poor play. I'm not absolving him. This season as I've said plenty of times Rodgers shares a large portion of the blame, but please name me other instances in the past where Rodgers single handedly cost us the game especially in the postseason. The only game I can really think of is the 2011 game against The Giants, but that was a failure on everyone's part. I've already shared my thoughts regarding the Seattle game.

3) I’ve never denied Favre could have ended things better in GB than he did, however ... it takes two to tango, but that isn’t a discussion that We should have in this thread ...

4) Regardless How things ended with Favre in GB, you cant deny, as a Leader he was much better than Rodgers (probably ever) will be.

5) I wouldn’t mind Rodgers getting in ppls face DURING a game, BUT I do mind him throwing ppl under the bus during interviews though, which is what I’ve said all along ...

For the sake of time I'm gonna quickly go through these

3. Doesn't negate what I said in regards to poor leadership especially what he did.

4. In what regard? Being more likable?

5. Please refer back to the end of #1 when I asked WHEN has he done that.

 

[PackAttack12]

I didn't say that they lost because of Rodgers either, I said his leadership in adversity is sub-par in adversity.

I think if you read my whole post it literally says, I don't think it was all on Rodgers. Just one thing that I noticed.

This year he also has a part to play as the 27th ranked QB in accuracy, that isn't because of receivers... Or play design... Or coaching... he wasn't accurate.

You are just really black and white, so when I say he lacks leadership. Then he must suck! Not the case at all, but when your accuracy falls, your team is losing, then lack of leadership really shows.

Rodgers absolutely deserves blame for his less than stellar performance this year. I'm not absolving him from anything. Like I said, my original response was to a poster that said something to the effect of "another year of Rodgers disappointing". Then it turned into the leadership piece, and I simply stated that his leadership has always been the same.

 

[longtimefan]

Didn't Brett one off season, rumors he was retiring.. Media stormed to him and he made a comment..

Who did they sign? In reason why to retire.

But that's okay.. We all said he isn't the GM.

 

[Do7]

I got to look for game tape when I get home... But here is a couple one with McCarthy, one with the offensive line. Honestly, it happens all the time, I really started to wonder how much you watch games.

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1365561/aaronmad.gif

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*Slow claps* Bravo. Someone finally shows Rodgers yelling and getting upset, about time if you ask me, even though it was at the coach and not a player.

I remember this game in particular b/c Jordy also picked up the flag.

https://media.giphy.com/media/jAgvSYRh0ne1y/giphy.gif

For the audience, I'm going to quote where I found this image from the article, it's from 2012 from my understanding.
"The Packers were fighting for the #2 seed in the NFC, and the Vikings were fighting for a Wild Card. There was some confusion on a play at the goal line, and Packers coach Mike McCarthy threw the red challenge flag when he shouldn't have.

Immediately recognizing the error, Aaron Rodgers STORMS to the sideline and screams at his head coach, thinking the Packers would end up getting flagged for challenging a play that they shouldn't have (the play was reviewed upstairs, and the Packers were penalized, but the TD stood)."

Alright you found 2 and I will not excuse Rodgers for that, that was definitely wrong of him to do that, even though that was a bone headed move on McCarthy. Inexcusable as that was one rare instant comparison to how many games he's played?

As for the second one, Rodgers got heated for certain, but that could've been a lot worse. Nevertheless a point goes to you.

If you can't provide me more where this has been a recurring theme, then don't come at me questioning whether I watch the games or not. My point still stands.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Tom yells all the time, when did I say he didn't? I can also find 100 of these of Tom. That doesn't make it right. Tom also is much more motivational than Aaron. Not to mention I'm not sure I have ever heard Tom Brady call out his teammate individually to reporters.

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/tom-brady-is-pumped-up-against-cowboys.gif?w=1000

Don't take too much offense, I wasn't directing that at you or anyone specifically. I understand both sides of this and I have often found myself on the critical side of Rodgers and his on the field demeanor. However, just like Brady, Brees and other great players, whatever works for a player, how can I argue if they get results? Rodgers and the whole Packer team just happen to have a bad year and that writing has been on the wall for awhile now, so I am not going to single out one player, GM or one coach and say "this was your fault". The Packer train has been on shaky ground for awhile now, it just finally derailed and of course Rodgers is a part of the problem, but he is also a big part of the solution.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Deep breaths gentlemen, deep breaths

 

[PackerDNA]

I think we need a Packersforum.com retreat to end all of this negativity and anger. I'll bring the beers.

Beer? Where?! When?!

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I think the horse has been beaten to death with this, and for the time being it's a moot point to come to any other conclusion that the best path forward will be getting the right HC, and loading up on offensive talent around Rodgers.

Yes, I'm sure these next two games will be the usual venting and frustration expressed at holding the ball too long, chucking it deep or taking too many sacks. But we're going to be finishing out these next two games still technically as a ship with no captain. Get the next guy in here, reshape the offense, and then we'll see what becomes of Rodgers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

best path forward will be getting the right HC, and loading up on offensive talent around Rodgers.

Personally, I think one of the most important decisions will be the new OC. The last few years have proven to me that having the head coach trying to do both duties isn't the best path, at least with Rodgers. So yes, the new HC is an important decision, but I am really looking forward to hearing who the next OC is going to be and hoping, that the new HC isn't also the new OC.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Personally, I think one of the most important decisions will be the new OC. The last few years have proven to me that having the head coach trying to do both duties isn't the best path, at least with Rodgers. So yes, the new HC is an important decision, but I am really looking forward to hearing who the next OC is going to be and hoping, that the new HC isn't also the new OC.

I'm okay with that format and it may be the right path to go, although keep in mind there certainly could be someone designated as I who may not be the play caller.

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about whether the HC calls plays. McVay has been doing it, Payton has been doing it, and many others have done it quite well.

I don't know that MM's biggest problem was that he called plays, although he did start losing it in that area recently sure. But he also did try giving it up a few years ago and it didn't work out too well.

I think his biggest problem was that he was too loyal to certain members of his coaching staff, and he hired some abominations of special teams coaches. The next HC I think has to be willing to drop coordinators who aren't cutting it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When I have people screw up at work I don't hold a press conference to tell the world about how **** poor their work is. Work it out as a team and strive to be better.

No offense, but I highly doubt anybody would be interested in you holding a press conference.

In addition Rodgers didn't convene the press conference but was answering a question during his mandatory media availability. But I get it, people aren't able to deal with criticism anymore but get offended by everything.

Football outsiders is not the problem...

Rodgers is 17th at football outsiders,
17th on ESPN total QBR,
14th in QBR,
27th in accuracy

Really he hasn't been elite at anything except not throwing picks. So while he is in the bottom 5 in accuracy this year (after taking out the throw-away passes and drops) at least he can't hit the other team as well. So that is something.

Once again, there's no denying Rodgers hasn't performed up to expectations this season.

I am saying it serves the team no purpose to publicly call these players out.

Here's how Valdes-Scantling and Moore reacted to Rodgers' criticism, seems they responded pretty well to it:

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/p...-packers-young-wrs-not-bad-in-preseason-debut

“That’s our quarterback,” Valdes-Scantling said, via ESPN.com. “So whenever he says we’re not doing a good job, we have to own up to it and say, ‘OK, we have to be better.’ Came out the next practice and we were definitely better. But you know when the leader says you’ve got to pick it up, that’s what you do. He’s one of the greatest to ever do it, so whatever he says we have to go out and do it.”

“A rough start,” Moore said. “My whole life has been about how you finish things. Just take it day by day and move forward. Definitely going put a fire up underneath me, so I’m going to move forward for sure, but it’s definitely going to put a fire up underneath me and definitely have me dig deeper.”