Ted Thompson Era Should Be Over

[Packer Brother]

I really don't believe Murphy will do squat. I yearn for the days of Harlan and Wolfe.

 

[Half Empty]

"3 years of no pressure learning behind another HOF qb"

Those are your words

Aha, but...learning from whom?

 

[Dantés]

Haven't the Wolfe and Thompson eras yielded the same number of SB victories?

 

[PackerDNA]

Tramon was available for a 7th? You have an insider in the Packers or Browns FO that told you that? This from November: http://nfltraderumors.co/browns-discussed-trading-cb-tramon-williams/

Yeah, don't see much difference than what we had at the time. I think once you get past 75-80 you might as well save the $6m and roll the dice on your UDFA improving and your 1st and 2nd rounders getting healthy. Especially if you're 4-4 and your offense is in a funk for the past season and a half and the the playoffs are hanging by a thread.

Agree, and this is the fine point. Make a move to improve, not just to make a move.

 

[PackerFanLV]

Let's not forget now Tramon was an instrumental figure getting us to that Superbowl XLV by intercepting Michael Vick to end that game in Philly that year, and then having a big pick 6 that put the game in our favor against these Falcons.

Not just that but tramon produced right away, Not just that but his 2nd year in the league he had 5ints, 3 year in he had 4ints, 4th year in he had 6ints, 5th year in he had 4ints well you get what im saying lol. Also tramon wasnt afraid to tackle and always contested passes from start.

 

[Packer Brother]

Haven't the Wolfe and Thompson eras yielded the same number of SB victories?

Wolfe went back to back SB's. He was responsible for Driver, Sharper, Walker, Reggie White, Leroy Butler, Desmond Howard, Eugene Robinson, correcting his mistake ( Firing Rhodes) when necessary.

It's a slap in the face to compare Wolfe with a middling GM who has wasted Rodgers prime.

 

[Dantés]

Wolfe went back to back SB's. He was responsible for Driver, Sharper, Walker, Reggie White, Leroy Butler, Desmond Howard, Eugene Robinson, correcting his mistake ( Firing Rhodes) when necessary.

It's a slap in the face to compare Wolfe with a middling GM who has wasted Rodgers prime.

That wasn't the question.

 

[thepackerbacker]

That is completely ridiculous somebody else did the math and said that our defense has given up an average of 36 points a game in our seven playoff losses with Rodgers at quarterback which is also ridiculous because it doesn't matter how good Rodgers is if the defense gives up 36 points we are going to lose.

I completely agree. Look at what Elway did in Denver after their Super Bowl 48 loss. He completely revamped the Defense. It's time for a change. I'd say that change is both Capers and Thompson, but I'd like to see what Capers could do if we actually gave him some veteran talent.

 

[thepackerbacker]

That wasn't the question.

He gave you the answer. Yes, but Marino never won one and we consider him great. Super Bowls don't always spell greatness. But when you have Aaron Rodgers and the offense we have had for years and the 8 straight playoff appearances, someone needs to have the fingers pointed at them when we only make one Super Bowl.

 

[Dantés]

He gave you the answer. Yes, but Marino never won one and we consider him great. Super Bowls don't always spell greatness. But when you have Aaron Rodgers and the offense we have had for years and the 8 straight playoff appearances, someone needs to have the fingers pointed at them when we only make one Super Bowl.

He didn't actually answer the question. But whatever.

My point is that you're talking about the team winning 61% of their games and going 10-6 in the playoffs with one Super Bowl victory in 11 years with Wolf at the helm and winning 61% of their games and going 10-8 in the playoffs withe one Super Bowl victory in 12 years with Thompson at the helm. The one era is treated by some as a golden era of success, while the latter is generally viewed as an exercise in futility. It doesn't make much sense to me. And apparently it's a "slap in the face" to say that the distinction doesn't make a ton of sense (to me).

 

[thepackerbacker]

He didn't actually answer the question. But whatever.

My point is that you're talking about the team winning 61% of their games and going 10-6 in the playoffs with one Super Bowl victory in 11 years with Wolf at the helm and winning 61% of their games and going 10-8 in the playoffs withe one Super Bowl victory in 12 years with Thompson at the helm. The one era is treated by some as a golden era of success, while the latter is generally viewed as an exercise in futility. It doesn't make much sense to me. And apparently it's a "slap in the face" to say that the distinction doesn't make a ton of sense (to me).

Both eras are obviously accomplished in their own way and yes very comparable. And you make a good point with those stats. I think the difference is Ron Wolf took a team that was pretty much garbage and turned them into Super Bowl champions. Should have been 2 time champions. Ron Wolf got Brett Favre and Thompson drafted Rodgers so both got Hall of Fame quarterbacks to lead their teams. But again I think the difference is what the team was. Wolf turned us into a contender. I feel like Thompson inherited a team that was already doing what it needed to to win. Yes he made some great draft picks on offense, but defensively he hasn't. I think that having inherited a contending team and only making one Super Bowl is worse than building a team to championship caliber and going to 2 Super Bowls with one victory.

 

[Dantés]

Both eras are obviously accomplished in their own way and yes very comparable. And you make a good point with those stats. I think the difference is Ron Wolf took a team that was pretty much garbage and turned them into Super Bowl champions. Should have been 2 time champions. Ron Wolf got Brett Favre and Thompson drafted Rodgers so both got Hall of Fame quarterbacks to lead their teams. But again I think the difference is what the team was. Wolf turned us into a contender. I feel like Thompson inherited a team that was already doing what it needed to to win. Yes he made some great draft picks on offense, but defensively he hasn't. I think that having inherited a contending team and only making one Super Bowl is worse than building a team to championship caliber and going to 2 Super Bowls with one victory.

That is a good insight into why the two eras are looked at so differently. Essentially you're saying it comes down to expectations. They were low when Wolf took over and he completely exceeded them. By the time Thompson took over, the sustained success had caused the expectations to rise.

But I would push back on that a little bit. While I think Thompson is far from perfect as a GM, I think those expectations are a little unfair. He has still done the work to maintain the same quality of team that Wolf did. Essentially, Wolf had one bad year and then found an all time great QB and never looked back. Thompson has done virtually the same.

And let's be cautious about casting the situation as though TT inherited his team that won the Super Bowl. How many of those players did he actually inherit from Wolf? Donald Driver, Chad Clifton, and...? By the time they won that ring, the team was almost completely stocked with TT players.

 

[Poppa San]

TT was handed a team and salary cap that had been gutted by Sherman's 5 years of incompetence. Except for a handful of holdovers from Wolf and a few blind squirrel finds, Sherman didn't leave much in the cupboard or checkbook.

 

[Mondio]

Wolf brought in Favre and Reggie and made a team that hadn't been good in 30 years relevant again, but make no mistake about it, this team was not heading towards contending anymore by the time Ted took over. I don't care if they made the playoffs, that roster was shot, the cap was not going to be doing us favors. And Favre was as reckless as ever at that point. Things easily could have gone south for a while after Mike Sherman was gone as GM and coach.

Ted's effect doesn't seem so dramatic as we were only a couple years removed from the playoffs before we turned it around again and were fighting for the top spot, where as with Wolf it had been since what? '83?

 

[PackerDNA]

Ted took over a mess; a roster full of holes, in decline, and cap problems.

 

[Poppa San]

"Upon further review" was in '89. The Packers did not make the playoffs that season. The following season, the second wildcard was added. The Packers would have earned it the previous season if it had existed. Not all the seasons in the gory years were top 10 draft slots. Some were close but no cigar, fade late, start slow and finish strong. IIRC there were back to back seasons where the team started slow, finished hot, started hot then faded. The hot stretch was like 12-4. Never got the hot stretches into the same season.

ETA: Alot like the past two seasons except we were able to make the playoffs this time around. A better WC contender last year and a stronger Vikings & Lions teams this season and we're sitting on the sidelines after both seasons.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Sounds like are headed for round 5 of the TT/Dom chicken and egg runaround.
1. Defense is terrible AGAIN in the last game of the season.
2. Fire Dom
3. Dom is a great coach that has no talent
4. Dom stays
5. Fire TT
5. But the injuries.....
6. TT Stays
7. TT has to have a great draft
8. No FA help
9. See #1

THIS IS EVERY SINGLE OFFSEASON

 

[Sanguine camper]

Accountability is not for front office management. Pennel was caught with weed and he's gone. TT wastes a HOF career that may be the best qb of all time and he gets to stay until he's senile. Truth is, the front office is in no rush to change things because they can count on Packers fans filling the stands and buying tons of Packer stuff no matter what. With this group you wonder if it has to do more with making money than winning.

 

[Packer Brother]

That wasn't the question.

They've yielded 1 SB win each.

 

[Bagadeez04]

That is a good insight into why the two eras are looked at so differently. Essentially you're saying it comes down to expectations. They were low when Wolf took over and he completely exceeded them. By the time Thompson took over, the sustained success had caused the expectations to rise.

But I would push back on that a little bit. While I think Thompson is far from perfect as a GM, I think those expectations are a little unfair. He has still done the work to maintain the same quality of team that Wolf did. Essentially, Wolf had one bad year and then found an all time great QB and never looked back. Thompson has done virtually the same.

And let's be cautious about casting the situation as though TT inherited his team that won the Super Bowl. How many of those players did he actually inherit from Wolf? Donald Driver, Chad Clifton, and...? By the time they won that ring, the team was almost completely stocked with TT players.

I know lots of people compare the two eras. I could care less what Wolf did versus what Thompsons done. Who cares? I just feel like in recent years, the defense has been a liability.

They've had stretches where they could seem respectable, but this unit has been mediocre at its best for quite a while now.

What bothers me is that this defense was pretty damn bad this season, and they will return the same players, same coaches and same scouts/general manager. How is the result on the field going to be much different? How in the world is that possible? I dont doubt that a healthier team could be maybe not quite as awful, but they won't be a great defense. Let's be honest, it's not possible in an off season...particularly only utilizing the draft and street/ undrafted free agents.

Why is it that acceptable? Why is six years of defensive let downs OK? McCarthy said he intends to put more emphasis on pass defense at OTAs. Really? With a straight face?

I just wish these guys had an ounce of self reflection. I don't doubt that they are generally good at what they do. I wish they could ask themselves, "What can I be doing better? " Because it seems Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy do not do that.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

I listened to Chris Carter and Greg Jennings on Cowherd the other day and they both talked about how Green Bay is not a top location for free agents. Both said that even Cleveland was better, because of teams like the Cavs and Indians, so other top athletes to hang with, more night life and larger minority population. Jennings stated that you would only go to Green Bay because you were strictly going for the football. This might have some impact on our hardships getting more free agents and a little less on TT being uninterested in that facet. Still doesn't explain the trade front, but we certainly are not privy to how involved he was in that aspect.

Just some food for thought.

 

[7thFloorRA]

I remember ILB Trevathon last year saying he was interested in GB but they never contacted him.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

TT was handed a team and salary cap that had been gutted by Sherman's 5 years of incompetence. Except for a handful of holdovers from Wolf and a few blind squirrel finds, Sherman didn't leave much in the cupboard or checkbook.

This is true, hence why I'm not in the revisionist history room on this. Ted Thompson did a lot to build the team up for the 2007 run (even if it was short of a SB run, still exceeded many expectations), and the 2010 run as well. This thread wasn't meant to tarnish his legacy in that way, it was just more to look at what's happening lately and the idea that even though you have success at one point, sometimes you gotta change some of the ways you do things to sustain it. It's kinda the same situation between Sean Payton and Mickey Loomis down in New Orleans, they built that team that won it all in 2009, taking over a crappy situation from Jim Hasslet and miraculously bringing life to that team. But they haven't poured enough investments into areas of their team to make up for deficiencies, which is why they've gone 7-9 over the past 3 seasons and have the fans talking about canning Payton.

I listened to Chris Carter and Greg Jennings on Cowherd the other day and they both talked about how Green Bay is not a top location for free agents. Both said that even Cleveland was better, because of teams like the Cavs and Indians, so other top athletes to hang with, more night life and larger minority population. Jennings stated that you would only go to Green Bay because you were strictly going for the football. This might have some impact on our hardships getting more free agents and a little less on TT being uninterested in that facet. Still doesn't explain the trade front, but we certainly are not privy to how involved he was in that aspect.

Just some food for thought.

Understandable, but remember we're also not talking about building a team on free agency, or even really trying to bring young 5-star studs into here .... well I mean we are but don't necessarily need to to get the defense up to snuff. Now I'm not saying that our market doesn't have some disadvantages when it comes to the free agent scene if you will like Carter and Jennings were saying. But it's still hard to imagine TT was ringing peoples phones off the hook in trying to bring em in to fill the holes.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let's be honest, it's not possible in an off season...particularly only utilizing the draft and street/ undrafted free agents.

It is absolutely possible to turn around a defense in a single offseason, just take a look at the Giants in 2016, but a team has to use free agency to achieve it.

I listened to Chris Carter and Greg Jennings on Cowherd the other day and they both talked about how Green Bay is not a top location for free agents. Both said that even Cleveland was better, because of teams like the Cavs and Indians, so other top athletes to hang with, more night life and larger minority population. Jennings stated that you would only go to Green Bay because you were strictly going for the football. This might have some impact on our hardships getting more free agents and a little less on TT being uninterested in that facet. Still doesn't explain the trade front, but we certainly are not privy to how involved he was in that aspect.

While that might be true for some free agents I believe that most of them would absolutely consider playing in Green Bay.

This is true, hence why I'm not in the revisionist history room on this. Ted Thompson did a lot to build the team up for the 2007 run (even if it was short of a SB run, still exceeded many expectations), and the 2010 run as well. This thread wasn't meant to tarnish his legacy in that way, it was just more to look at what's happening lately and the idea that even though you have success at one point, sometimes you gotta change some of the ways you do things to sustain it.

One thing that hasn´t been brought up so far in this discussion is that the defense performed on a higher level early during Thompson´s tenure before the new CBA limited the number of offseason and training camp practices, making it way tougher for inexperienced players to grasp Capers defensive scheme. Therefore Thompson changing his approach and increasingly relying on veteran free agents might have been the smart way to handle business over the last six years.

 

[Dantés]

I know lots of people compare the two eras. I could care less what Wolf did versus what Thompsons done. Who cares? I just feel like in recent years, the defense has been a liability.

They've had stretches where they could seem respectable, but this unit has been mediocre at its best for quite a while now.

What bothers me is that this defense was pretty damn bad this season, and they will return the same players, same coaches and same scouts/general manager. How is the result on the field going to be much different? How in the world is that possible? I dont doubt that a healthier team could be maybe not quite as awful, but they won't be a great defense. Let's be honest, it's not possible in an off season...particularly only utilizing the draft and street/ undrafted free agents.

Why is it that acceptable? Why is six years of defensive let downs OK? McCarthy said he intends to put more emphasis on pass defense at OTAs. Really? With a straight face?

I just wish these guys had an ounce of self reflection. I don't doubt that they are generally good at what they do. I wish they could ask themselves, "What can I be doing better? " Because it seems Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy do not do that.

I think it's totally fair to level some criticism at TT. He won't increase his use of FA. He won't shake up the continuity that he believes in so much when it seems like it might be time. I get that.

I was just seeing a lot of longing for the Wolf days and bemoaning of the Thompson days. It seems to me that if one is going to laud the success of the one, then they shouldn't be so ******* the other.