Tearing it Down

[OldSchool101]

Doubs can replace Lazard's passing production. Given the Packers salary cap hell in 2023, Gute will have little choice other than to let him walk. Getting virtually nothing from Amari, Sternberger and Deguara really hurts the offense. A other problem is the poor coaching in not having the RB's play a bigger role in the passing game.

It's curious but when MM was here, we had a season where we did the same thing. We were banged up and weak at Receiver, but we had 2 veteran TE's with some good receiving history but we nearly ignored them. It's not some big secret that you rely on your known veterans more when a particular position group is lagging. You would think in a game that has a opponent with a stellar front 4 that you would use those RB some more in that short passing game. I'm talking 3-5 yard dump passes nothing crazy. Both Dillon and Jones have great hands and could've had 8-10 targets combined

 

[Pkrjones]

I've been a big supporter of Gute's, but it's time to face facts. His job is to assess & procure talent, and manage the salary cap.

Over the past 4 years he's significantly mismanaged every aspect of that job. Regardless of AR's future, the salary cap is trashed and will take a major-gut-job to repair it. 2022 there is $28Mil dead money on the cap, which is over 13% of the allotted cap. In '23 there is a MINIMUM of $13Mil dead cap in FA's no longer under contract (e.g. Amos, Lowry, Cobb, Reed, Tonyan, Crosby, Lewis...). In addition to that dead cap $ there are major decisions to make regarding AR, Bakhtiari, and Aaron Jones that will greatly affect the '23 cap.

Young, ascending players' contracts need to be addressed in '23, also. Gary is playing on the 5th year option (1 yr/$10.9Mil); Love enters his 4th year & will need to be 5th year optioned (at $19.8Mil) OR NOT; Elgton Jenkins is a UFA along with those listed above and if Franchise Tagged would account for 1 yr/$17.67Mil. Much of the "core" of this year may not be here, leaving GB with a lot less talent than '22.

Talent acquisitions: There are young, ascending players at DL, LB, DB & OL but a dearth of talent at TE, and more needed at WR, RB & ST. Maybe a few low-priced FA's can fill some holes, but can Gute (or new GM?) find enough to bolster the pipeline?

I don't think the coaching staff assembled is capable of coaching-up a younger team in '23 as they've struggled with the team of vets this year. Changes need to be made, and to start over from Gute down may not be a horrible idea. Heading into a July '25 retirement will Murphy stay the course for 2 more years or attempt to right-the-ship before he leaves?

 

[Sanguine camper]

I can only fault the coaching in the tepid production in the passing game from Jones and Dillon. They have both shown great ability as pass catchers. You would think that as long as the WR position is below average, more emphasis would be made in getting Jones, Dillon and Tonyan the ball, and I don't mean these 1-3 short outs that put the Packers in third and long. As I have said before, the Packers would've been better off had MLF kept Stenovich where he excelled as an o line coach.

 

[tynimiller]

The season is over.

They won’t play Love until it’s mathematically confirmed, but they ought to start now.

Use Aaron’s thumb as an excuse.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

I've been a big supporter of Gute's, but it's time to face facts. His job is to assess & procure talent, and manage the salary cap.

Over the past 4 years he's significantly mismanaged every aspect of that job. Regardless of AR's future, the salary cap is trashed and will take a major-gut-job to repair it. 2022 there is $28Mil dead money on the cap, which is over 13% of the allotted cap. In '23 there is a MINIMUM of $13Mil dead cap in FA's no longer under contract (e.g. Amos, Lowry, Cobb, Reed, Tonyan, Crosby, Lewis...). In addition to that dead cap $ there are major decisions to make regarding AR, Bakhtiari, and Aaron Jones that will greatly affect the '23 cap.

Young, ascending players' contracts need to be addressed in '23, also. Gary is playing on the 5th year option (1 yr/$10.9Mil); Love enters his 4th year & will need to be 5th year optioned (at $19.8Mil) OR NOT; Elgton Jenkins is a UFA along with those listed above and if Franchise Tagged would account for 1 yr/$17.67Mil. Much of the "core" of this year may not be here, leaving GB with a lot less talent than '22.

Talent acquisitions: There are young, ascending players at DL, LB, DB & OL but a dearth of talent at TE, and more needed at WR, RB & ST. Maybe a few low-priced FA's can fill some holes, but can Gute (or new GM?) find enough to bolster the pipeline?

I don't think the coaching staff assembled is capable of coaching-up a younger team in '23 as they've struggled with the team of vets this year. Changes need to be made, and to start over from Gute down may not be a horrible idea. Heading into a July '25 retirement will Murphy stay the course for 2 more years or attempt to right-the-ship before he leaves?

Bakhtiari assuming he will be healthy enough and willing to play then restructure and make it availability dependent.
Jenkins let him go. I feel if it wosent for the fact he is playing for new contract he would drop right off the map. Jones restructure or let him go.
Rodgers will most likly retire then assess Love rest of the season and keep if not trade him along with Alenxander and Clarke for draft capital to move up and get a QB .

Lowry, Tanyen, Reed, c ya later.
Cobb, Crosby retire.

 

[MadCat]

I can’t believe there are so many people in favor of torturing fans even further this season with an experiment as soon as we’re eliminated. Good or bad, what are fans paying money to see, if not a team playing to win (you know, the sport’s main objective)?

That kind of bad football is what preseason is for.

 

[rmontro]

It's curious but when MM was here, we had a season where we did the same thing. We were banged up and weak at Receiver, but we had 2 veteran TE's with some good receiving history but we nearly ignored them.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Well, sort of.

 

[milani]

It's curious but when MM was here, we had a season where we did the same thing. We were banged up and weak at Receiver, but we had 2 veteran TE's with some good receiving history but we nearly ignored them. It's not some big secret that you rely on your known veterans more when a particular position group is lagging. You would think in a game that has a opponent with a stellar front 4 that you would use those RB some more in that short passing game. I'm talking 3-5 yard dump passes nothing crazy. Both Dillon and Jones have great hands and could've had 8-10 targets combined

Using the backs in the passing game are always a plus if they have the skill set for it. In Bart Starr's last MVP year his leading receiver was Jimmy Taylor. Now on the other hand by doing that the wear and tear on the backs can take its toll.

 

[Pkrjones]

I can’t believe there are so many people in favor of torturing fans even further this season with an experiment as soon as we’re eliminated. Good or bad, what are fans paying money to see, if not a team playing to win (you know, the sport’s main objective)?

That kind of bad football is what preseason is for.

We're already watching bad football play out, why not endure it for a purpose of helping make future decisions with more knowledge?

Preseason is for judging which 53 to keep for the season. These last 6 games are for judging which players to keep for '23 and beyond.

 

[Half Empty]

I can’t believe there are so many people in favor of torturing fans even further this season with an experiment as soon as we’re eliminated. Good or bad, what are fans paying money to see, if not a team playing to win (you know, the sport’s main objective)?

That kind of bad football is what preseason is for.

At least it'd be interesting, which playing with the definition of insanity isn't going to be. Play to win with a team that clearly can't or play to win with something new?

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

Potentially #12 draft pick in 2023, take M.Mayer TE ND.... in line blocking very, very good; receiving Excellent and a player. Otherwise, do not have a clue who to take unless you can find a couple OL by trading the #12 for a couple at bottom of Round 1/beginning round 2. Mayer would provide in-line blocking, require the D to cover him and if a LB, Mayer wins most of those battles.

 

[tynimiller]

I can’t believe there are so many people in favor of torturing fans even further this season with an experiment as soon as we’re eliminated. Good or bad, what are fans paying money to see, if not a team playing to win (you know, the sport’s main objective)?

That kind of bad football is what preseason is for.

It would be grossly mismanaging the organization if you didn't play Love if there is zero mathematical way to make the playoffs IMO. You're facing a fifth year option decision in May on Love....while perhaps the extension with Rodgers in the previous offseason came with the knowledge he was going to play minimum two more years....but there is zero guarantee a year like this doesn't make him want out...besides he is beat up as well. Have the discussion with Rodgers, IF he is in for certain next year than commit to him, **** even tell the media this is Love's audition for all the other teams as Rodgers gets healthy and the team and he look towards a 2023 push for a title.

Not playing Love and seeing truly what you have in games that matter before a multi-million dollar decision would be a misstep entirely.

 

[MadCat]

It would be grossly mismanaging the organization if you didn't play Love if there is zero mathematical way to make the playoffs IMO. You're facing a fifth year option decision in May on Love....while perhaps the extension with Rodgers in the previous offseason came with the knowledge he was going to play minimum two more years....but there is zero guarantee a year like this doesn't make him want out...besides he is beat up as well. Have the discussion with Rodgers, IF he is in for certain next year than commit to him, **** even tell the media this is Love's audition for all the other teams as Rodgers gets healthy and the team and he look towards a 2023 push for a title.

Not playing Love and seeing truly what you have in games that matter before a multi-million dollar decision would be a misstep entirely.

I wasn’t thinking about the fifth year option WRT Love, so thank you for reminding me.

 

[OldSchool101]

Potentially #12 draft pick in 2023, take M.Mayer TE ND.... in line blocking very, very good; receiving Excellent and a player. Otherwise, do not have a clue who to take unless you can find a couple OL by trading the #12 for a couple at bottom of Round 1/beginning round 2. Mayer would provide in-

Yes. Last draft the 7-10 teams were #8-#11 overall. I suspect we'll be in that area.

I would also strongly consider trading back if the perfect prospect isn't there at #10. We could go back to #18-#22 area and easily work in an extra 2nd rounder (#52 overall etc) in some trade capacity. I like the idea of having our two 2nd rounders back again this year.
Either that or doing a similar move to 2018 draft and going back and forth to get a late teens area, but acquiring an extra 2024 Day 1 selection

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Everyone calling for Love to play…have you seen the support around the QB the Packers have on the field? With the receiving group currently on the roster, Love is going to look like *** and that’s generally not something you want to force a young player into. Only reason i can think of for putting Love out there is so the team potentially has the excuse to draft a QB high in this year’s draft. There is zero chance that Love looks anything like a decent passer in this year’s offense. All we’ll really be able to see is whether Love can hand the ball off and how good a runner Love is when none of the receivers get open and he pulls it down to run.

 

[Pkrjones]

Everyone calling for Love to play…have you seen the support around the QB the Packers have on the field? With the receiving group currently on the roster, Love is going to look like *** and that’s generally not something you want to force a young player into. Only reason i can think of for putting Love out there is so the team potentially has the excuse to draft a QB high in this year’s draft. There is zero chance that Love looks anything like a decent passer in this year’s offense. All we’ll really be able to see is whether Love can hand the ball off and how good a runner Love is when none of the receivers get open and he pulls it down to run.

I'll use the Bears as an example. They picked Trubisky and played him half way into his rookie year. They had no OL, a few receivers of worth and a running game. Within 1.5 seasons of play they could see his shortcomings (accuracy, couldn't get to 3rd read) and that they needed to move on. Fields had no line, few decent receivers and a decent RB and took his lumps year one...but all could see he had arm talent, a QB brain and could run to escape danger. Young QB's need to play to see what they can do. So what if Love isn't surrounded with a loaded offense, we can see if he's got "it" or if he struggles with accuracy, reads or can't escape the rush. Don't know what we have unless he gets a chance to sink or swim.

 

[AKCheese]

I think Love will get a year or two regardless of what he shows in limited action in this pituful season. Green Bay does not have the luxury of another 1st round QB pick. If we had unloaded the Arrogant One instead of giving him the keys to the vault, we would have PLENTY!! But alas somehow Packer leadership never saw this collapse coming.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Yes. Last draft the 7-10 teams were #8-#11 overall. I suspect we'll be in that area.

I would also strongly consider trading back if the perfect prospect isn't there at #10. We could go back to #18-#22 area and easily work in an extra 2nd rounder (#52 overall etc) in some trade capacity. I like the idea of having our two 2nd rounders back again this year.
Either that or doing a similar move to 2018 draft and going back and forth to get a late teens area, but acquiring an extra 2024 Day 1 selection

Rodgers will almost certainly retire and unless they think Love is the answer will will be trading up not down for a QB. If Rodgers takes some time to think about returning and eventually does due to the pure potential of Watson and Doubs then we will be almost certainly taking a LT in first round since I doubt Bakt will be healthy enough to continue and if he is we Need a S or DT in the first and possibly even Corner

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You would think in a game that has a opponent with a stellar front 4 that you would use those RB some more in that short passing game. I'm talking 3-5 yard dump passes nothing crazy. Both Dillon and Jones have great hands and could've had 8-10 targets combined

Jones had six receptions for only 20 yards against the Titans. Seems that didn't work either.

Much of the "core" of this year may not be here, leaving GB with a lot less talent than '22.

The Packers can hold on to core players if they want to push out even more cap hits in future seasons to make another run.

In my opinion exercising the fifth year option on Savage at a fully guaranteed $8 million for next season was a terrible mistake by Gutekunst as well.

Talent acquisitions: There are young, ascending players at DL, LB, DB & OL but a dearth of talent at TE, and more needed at WR, RB & ST. Maybe a few low-priced FA's can fill some holes, but can Gute (or new GM?) find enough to bolster the pipeline?

If the Packers hold on to Jones on a restructured contract there's no need to add talent at running back.

I don't think there's any chance the team moves on from Gutekunst after this season. Although he hasn't made a lot of great decisions since the 2020 draft.

Use Aaron’s thumb as an excuse.

I don't think Rodgers would be on board with that.

Rodgers will most likly retire then assess Love rest of the season and keep if not trade him along with Alenxander and Clarke for draft capital to move up and get a QB .

I highly doubt Rodgers wants to retire after a losing season. Especially as he would forgo nearly $60 million fully guaranteed not playing next season.

I can’t believe there are so many people in favor of torturing fans even further this season with an experiment as soon as we’re eliminated. Good or bad, what are fans paying money to see, if not a team playing to win (you know, the sport’s main objective)?

Once the Packers are eliminated from the playoffs they definitely should evaluate young players they need to make a decision on next offseason.

I think Love will get a year or two regardless of what he shows in limited action in this pituful season.

There's a distinct chance Love moves on after the 2023 season if the Packers don't exercise the fifth year option on him next offseason.

At this point there's absolutely no reason to even think about doing it.

 

[gopkrs]

There's a distinct chance Love moves on after the 2023 season if the Packers don't exercise the fifth year option on him next offseason.

At this point there's absolutely no reason to even think about doing it.

I disagree with you. We have not even seen Love play. And Rodgers does not look very good.

 

[Pugger]

Back in the day I always felt McCarthy coached not to lose instead of to win. He probably wishes he did that today.

MLF is guilty of doing that too - coaching not to lose.

 

[longtimefan]

I think Love will get a year or two regardless of what he shows in limited action in this pituful season. Green Bay does not have the luxury of another 1st round QB pick. If we had unloaded the Arrogant One instead of giving him the keys to the vault, we would have PLENTY!! But alas somehow Packer leadership never saw this collapse coming.

Wonder if they wanted to let.him.go or trade, but also I wonder if they just caved in for fear of backlash.

 

[Team Ronny]

Bakhtiari assuming he will be healthy enough and willing to play then restructure and make it availability dependent.
Jenkins let him go. I feel if it wosent for the fact he is playing for new contract he would drop right off the map. Jones restructure or let him go.
Rodgers will most likly retire then assess Love rest of the season and keep if not trade him along with Alenxander and Clarke for draft capital to move up and get a QB .

Lowry, Tanyen, Reed, c ya later.
Cobb, Crosby retire.

I think Lewis also retires.

 

[milani]

I disagree with you. We have not even seen Love play. And Rodgers does not look very good.

I ask myself what would have happened to Rodgers in 2008 if Favre had not made that rapid fire decision to announce his retirement. Would the Packers have moved on with him? One area that I see lacking in Rodgers is that he does not appear to inspire enough of the players on his team when the going gets tough. Yes, he tries. I recall in 2005 how the salary cap and Thompson decimated the Packer roster. Favre was still out there playing every snap like he was in the SB. No quit in him. Even down by 20 points in the last 2 minutes he was out there hollering to his mates to hurry and get to the line. Players see that. Especially young ones.

 

[kevans74]

I don't think some people realize just how good Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers were in their PRIMEs. It was unbelievable the talent level. AR is definitely past his prime now and he just needs an ego check for sure