'Splain this one Lucy?

[Pokerbrat2000]

Damn Jaguars.....I think we all knew this when it happened.

NFL teams annoyed with 1 WR for resetting market

The market for NFL wide receivers has been scorching hot this offseason. That is a great thing for players, but it has forced some teams to make very

larrybrownsports.com

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[El Guapo]

Listening to people say that Watkins is at the end of his prime ability level, not worth a lot. Then they tell me that Davante Adams is in his prime, worthy of that huge contract he got.

Now explain to me how this works, since Adams is actually older than Watkins?

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[El Guapo]

Lazard is the modern Hines Ward, at least from a blocking perspective. What he doesn't get in targets is more than made up by his blocking on running plays. He is the kind of player that you always want on the field, because he is good in each facet of the offense. He won't be your #1 or maybe even your #2 WR, but he should be on the field.

 

[PikeBadger]

OMG....if this is the case and it could stay beneath $2M (incentives must be rather low maybe) that is an absolute STEAL

Russ Ball is the schmidt DOCTOR!

 

[Voyageur]

There are two schools of thought on what happens when individual players get huge contracts.

Of course, the first is that they're outrageous and you can't afford to compete with them. That it's going to drive the prices up on everyone else from that position's free agent pool.

The second thought is that it will drive the costs up for the upper level members of that position pool, but with all the cap room being eaten up by these contracts, there are players in other positions who are going to be more accessible, because teams stretching the cap can't afford to handle even moderate contracts.

Want an example of the latter? The Packers. We got ourselves into that position. But, even there, there's a ray of hope. Because players we couldn't afford to keep are worth more, we can end up getting some compensatory picks, and in the case of Adams, a couple of solid picks in the first two rounds. In a way, that goes a long way towards balancing the scale, even though it's not quite visible in the early going. Who knows what we get with those two picks? We could get a WR better than Adams, and a guy for another position who ends up as a perennial all-pro. It's a gamble, but even though it's a risk, it's an acceptable one.

Personally, I like how they're approaching all of this. I also see that there just might come a moment not that far down the road where the Packers will move Love for possibly an established WR, a pick, or a combination of both. You just never know.

Anyhow, just shooting from the hip. It's part of the off season fun.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Personally, I like how they're approaching all of this.

I like how the Adams situation ended up, but if I understand correctly, the Packers wanted to keep him. So trading him seemed to be their only option. I realize most fans want the best player at every position, but when it comes to paying each of those "best players" at new contract time, a team has to be smart and not get top heavy on the cap with a handful of players. Two more such players are soon to be looking for new contracts from the Packers, Alexander and Gary. Alexander is going to want close to top CB money and Gary, probably top 10 OLB money. The price of having a good team and good players.

 

[Voyageur]

I like how the Adams situation ended up, but if I understand correctly, the Packers wanted to keep him. So trading him seemed to be their only option. I realize most fans want the best player at every position, but when it comes to paying each of those "best players" at new contract time, a team has to be smart and not get top heavy on the cap with a handful of players. Two more such players are soon to be looking for new contracts from the Packers, Alexander and Gary. Alexander is going to want close to top CB money and Gary, probably top 10 OLB money. The price of having a good team and good players.

Give that man a cigar!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You actually can, and it is to illustrate the efficiency of a receiver. Adams does more with his targets than a TON of WRs. It helps illustrate yet again why Adams is a higher level WR in his efficiency with targets. As with any statistical reflections or projection - it isn't a perfect science of course, however it is purely an exercise of comparison and shouldn't be overthought too much or also shouldn't be written off.

The amount of targets a WR gets is of course a product of multiple different things...a downfield type weapon could see a lower amount of targets if a team has terrible line play, a QB without a deep arm, a WR's inability to create space or he could be a teams' 4th/5th or even 6th option. A wide range of items can impact a players target number....but measuring their efficiency when targeted is a metric I and many appreciate - it is one way folks can see separation of WRs.

It actually is...within reason. The depth of normal targets Lazard is capable of producing inside this offensive structure mixed with his normal catch rate allows one to see the potential he might hold or produce should he be targeted more. This 100% is how such a projection works. It isn't saying you magically can make more targets for a player, it is saying if this player type, given their tendencies in production were to see an increase in "Y" it is relatively reasonable to assume "X" will see an increase or decrease.

It makes sense to evaluate the performance of a receiver based on his production per target. But you can't just assume those numbers would stay the same if the amount of targets increase.

Still, 2 1/2 yards seems like enough considering the routes he runs. And on the longer ones, he does not seem to get that kind of separation which must affect his stat. Maybe the more important stat would be separation when not targeted.

I would love to see those numbers as well but unfortunately it's not being tracked anywhere.

He is 2.5 while Adams according to Next Gen is 2.9....I'm honestly shocked at that separation not being more of a difference between the two honestly.

Those numbers are average separation when being targeted though.

I'm just fine with him hitting his $4M with incentives, it will mean that he had a decent season. Now if they could convince Julio or AJ to sign a similar contract, we could go into the draft not needing to find a day 1 starter at WR.

AJ Green re-signed with the Cardinals.

I also see that there just might come a moment not that far down the road where the Packers will move Love for possibly an established WR, a pick, or a combination of both. You just never know.

I highly doubt any other team is interested in giving up an established wide receiver for Love.

 

[Voyageur]

I also see that there just might come a moment not that far down the road where the Packers will move Love for possibly an established WR, a pick, or a combination of both. You just never know.

I highly doubt any other team is interested in giving up an established wide receiver for Love.

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I'm not referring to a star receiver. I'm talking about a journeyman who can fill out the roster, and offer a few catches. Someone you know is dependable.

 

[Schultz]

I highly doubt any other team is interested in giving up an established wide receiver for Love.

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I'm not referring to a star receiver. I'm talking about a journeyman who can fill out the roster, and offer a few catches. Someone you know is dependable.

You could probably get a guy like that in free agency. More likely (if at all) an early day 3 pick. Honestly I would just keep him as the back-up unless a key injury made a team offer a deal you can't refuse.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You could probably get a guy like that in free agency. More likely (if at all) an early day 3 pick. Honestly I would just keep him as the back-up unless a key injury made a team offer a deal you can't refuse.

Agreed. This continued noise that some are making about getting rid of Love gets annoying. If he is as bad as some think he is, why would another team trade much more than a late day 3 pick for him? Then what do the Packers do for a backup? Oh and BTW...Jordan Love's dead cap hit is $6,518,842. So now that we have gotten rid of our #2 QB, have to account for the dead cap hit and we got a bag of stale twinkles and a 6 pack of Blatz for him, will those people finally shut up about him being a bad pick?

 

[Voyageur]

Agreed. This continued noise that some are making about getting rid of Love gets annoying. If he is as bad as some think he is, why would another team trade much more than a late day 3 pick for him? Then what do the Packers do for a backup? Oh and BTW...Jordan Love's dead cap hit is $6,518,842. So now that we have gotten rid of our #2 QB, have to account for the dead cap hit and we got a bag of stale twinkles and a 6 pack of Blatz for him, will those people finally shut up about him being a bad pick?

It's a draft pick you're looking for, not getting rid of Love as an objective. If the Pick could be used to bolster the team it wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course it could be no less than an mid to early 2nd round pick in my opinion. The WR is just a throw in of someone at a low salary, who has a proven track record, nothing more.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Of course it could be no less than an mid to early 2nd round pick in my opinion. The WR is just a throw in of someone at a low salary, who has a proven track record, nothing more.

I doubt that is happening and it wouldn't change the dead cap hit of $6.5+ M nor would it change the need to replace Love with a capable backup, who you also have to pay. Both not good outcomes for a team that is already up against the cap.

My only caveat to all of this, is if the Packers coaches and front office know 100% that Love will never amount to being a starting QB in the NFL, then by all means go bilk a team for a 2nd round pick. However, Gutes most recent comment on Love, if true, stated that they still need more time and game play to evaluate him.

 

[Voyageur]

I doubt that is happening and it wouldn't change the dead cap hit of $6.5+ M nor would it change the need to replace Love with a capable backup, who you also have to pay. Both not good outcomes for a team that is already up against the cap.

My only caveat to all of this, is if the Packers coaches and front office know 100% that Love will never amount to being a starting QB in the NFL, then by all means go bilk a team for a 2nd round pick. However, Gutes most recent comment on Love, if true, stated that they still need more time and game play to evaluate him.

It won't happen. The Packers will be content with what they have, and nobody will be dumb enough to make an offer. But, it is the NFL, so we can expect something stupid coming up now and then. We should start a rumor?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We should start a rumor?

The one about the Browns trading Amari Cooper, Myles Garrett and 3 first rounders for Love? I've been pushing that on Social Media, didn't know I would excite so many Browns fans to think that it was true.

 

[Voyageur]

I like to refer to this as "The Speculation Season." Nothing is fact until it happens, but there's more rumors than there is at an all girls school when they see some guy sneaking out in the early morning in his underwear, with his clothes over this shoulder, and his shoes in his hand. Somebody had fun... nobody sure exactly who it was.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

more rumors than there is at an all girls school when they see some guy sneaking out in the early morning in his underwear, with his clothes over this shoulder, and his shoes in his hand. Somebody had fun... nobody sure exactly who it was.

You said that you would never tell anyone! I gotta say, it was worth it!

You sure your name isn't "Voyeur"?

 

[OldSchool101]

Lol, he doesn't need to. Rodgers has liked Lazard plenty since his UDFA days as a rookie.
My humble apologies to Ted Thompson for talking about UDFA's.

Hey. You reminded me if something important.
Allen wasn’t signed by the Packers off the Jacksonville PS until Dec 18th, 2018. He really only had 1 full 2019 offseason program before coming out week 6 and hitting his stride.

Point being. This was an Undrafted WR who scored his first TD inside of 10 months of being on our Roster.l and produced 500 yards within about 1 calendar year (35-477 3TD:
1-21 rushing

What could we get from several early Draft selections at WR if they are working with the first team from GO. I’d expect much better than that between the better of two separate top 59 selections etc..

Maybe also invite both of them to that Memorial Day party!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hey. You reminded me if something important.
Allen wasn’t signed by the Packers until Dec 18th, 2018. He really only had 1 full offseason program before coming our week 6 and hitting his stride for his first TD.

Another important date for the Packers and Lazard is tomorrow. He has to sign his tender by then. I know everyone thinks that it is just a formality but 4 things could happen.

- He signs it....life goes on.
- Packers and Lazard work out a long term deal, life goes on.
- Another team offers Lazard and the Packers have to lose him and get a 2nd rounder or match the deal, Packer fans lose their sh**t.
- Lazard doesn't sign the offer and goes on to be a famous Reptile Zoo keeper.

 

[Voyageur]

Another important date for the Packers and Lazard is tomorrow. He has to sign his tender by then. I know everyone thinks that it is just a formality but 4 things could happen.

- He signs it....life goes on.
- Packers and Lazard work out a long term deal, life goes on.
- Another team offers Lazard and the Packers have to lose him and get a 2nd rounder or match the deal, Packer fans lose their sh**t.
- Lazard doesn't sign the offer and goes on to be a famous Reptile Zoo keeper.

I figured he'd start a reptile circus, and call it Lazard's Lizards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I figured he'd start a reptile circus, and call it Lazard's Lizards.

You are on the same Circus wagon vibe that I was going for.

I wouldn't mind the Packers locking him into a longer term deal, but I don't want to see them overpay. Problem is, what is overpaying right now is probably underpaying in some WR's minds. Give him a 3 year deal, base salary of $3M with incentives to earn up to $6M/year.

 

[tynimiller]

You are on the same Circus wagon vibe that I was going for.

I wouldn't mind the Packers locking him into a longer term deal, but I don't want to see them overpay. Problem is, what is overpaying right now is probably underpaying in some WR's minds. Give him a 3 year deal, base salary of $3M with incentives to earn up to $6M/year.

Lazard is minimum a $7M/year type guy deal for 3 or 4 years in today's NFL. That is minimum. Honestly, I am betting Lazard is consistent again, might up some of his production to 800-1000 yards and play his way into a $10M/year or more deal 100% for sure next off season. Signing Lazard now to a multi-year deal is a gamble...depending on what the organization feels they have in him is crucial to the discussions.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Signing Lazard now to a multi-year deal is a gamble...depending on what the organization feels they have in him is crucial to the discussions.

Which is why you load it with incentives. My guess Lazard isn't happy about being tendered, but he is also playing on probably the one team in the NFL that will not just give him a ton of opportunities due to their WR situation, but is also playing with the NFL's MVP QB. If he can't use those 2 things to beef up his resume for next year, then I can't see a team paying him a whole lot.

 

[OldSchool101]

I figured he'd start a reptile circus, and call it Lazard's Lizards.

Yea. They could have a Food Counter. Selling Lazard’s… Fried Chicken Gizzards and frozen Strawberry Blizzards.
If he signs up on that 2nd Round $$ we could add Lazard’s 4-piece Tenders

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm not referring to a star receiver. I'm talking about a journeyman who can fill out the roster, and offer a few catches. Someone you know is dependable.

I don't expect any team to give up a dependable journeyman receiver for Love either.

Then what do the Packers do for a backup? Oh and BTW...Jordan Love's dead cap hit is $6,518,842.

I agree it wouldn't be smart for the Packers to trade Love as long as the offer isn't too enticing to pass on. For the record, if the team trades him the move would only result in $3,283,080 of dead money counting against their cap as the club acquiring him would be on the hook for his base salary in 2022 and '23.

It's a draft pick you're looking for, not getting rid of Love as an objective. If the Pick could be used to bolster the team it wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course it could be no less than an mid to early 2nd round pick in my opinion. The WR is just a throw in of someone at a low salary, who has a proven track record, nothing more.

There's no way any team would give up a second rounder and a receiver for Love.